Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

[Jnana]

All I have is the evidence of my eyes. I know what I saw. Other people have seen the same things with me. Some of these things have been captured on video. There is a DVD with Greer's new book "Contact - Countdown to Transformation". I was present for one of the sightings on that DVD. I'll be the first to say that if you are of a skeptical bent, then these videos won't be convincing to you. Video just doesn't capture the full impact of the first hand experience.

If you have seen such things first hand, if you have seen an intelligent reaction to your thoughts manifested as a display in the sky, sometimes rather close up, below cloud cover, then it makes a major impact. I have a history of such sightings, where the intelligence I am interacting with shows a memory of past interactions. Do I absolutely know who or what it is making these displays? No. But, I'm darned sure they're not from around here, and I am in telepathic contact with them. 99.99999999....% of the universe is extraterrestrial, so I don't have a hard time with the concept that something could be of extraterrestrial origins. Call it interdimensional if you like, it's still not from around here.

I've studied T. Townsend Brown enough to know that our understanding of physics is incomplete and field propulsion is indeed possible. Plus, I've seen what those guys can do up there. That's some hot piloting. I've looked at various esoteric energy device and recognized common threads in the ones that work, enough to convince myself there is something to it. You can't just look at one video, or one observation of something weird. Like many things it's a matter of fitting puzzle pieces together and only keeping the parts that fit.

Once you begin to understand what they are capable of, then some of the more far out parts of certain experiences, like passing through walls, can be recognized as just a capability of a very advanced technological race with high intelligence and a higher level of consciousness.

I've met a number of people who have seen much, much more than I have. Because of my own experiences and my impression of what kind of people they are, I'm inclined to believe them.

I don't offer proof, only my opinion that there are ETs visiting the earth, and the one's I'm familiar with are very generous about showing up when I ask. They've even shown up to cheer my up when I'm down. Make of it what you will. You can see for yourself if you are sufficiently motivated to seek the experience.

On a different note, Steven Greer is a good starting point for evidence but again, his "proof" consists of "expert testimonies." Again, more supposedly credible people SAYING unbelievable things. Where are the documents, photos, memos, etc. Steven?

His books and websites do contain some of the things you are asking for - documents, memos, photos, videos. I would say these constitute evidence, not "proof". Even in science, a theory is not "proven". Experimental evidence is accumulated and a theory is eventually accepted or not, but it is an inductive process and there is no such thing as absolute certainty.

If you want to look into a case which is rather well documented, I highly recommend looking into the Phoenix Lights. Decent photos, credible investigator (Dr. Lynn Kitei), lots of corroboration. One thing to remember is that if even one of thousands of documented UFO cases is true, then they exist and they can get here.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Leunamros

the absence of evidence, it´s not the evidence of it´s absence, yeah, im aware. But, if you choose either side you are gullible.

From my perspective, humilty is the best answer to our situation in the cosmos. So we can feel better what is goin on.

You know something?, we have to feel ourselves tiny, to perceive the grandeur of what´s around us.

And, the truth be told, we are VEEERY tiny, very tiny.

When I go to my farm, on a clear night there are millions and millions of stars in the sky.

I think that makes me tiny.

That puts me in my place.

I think I get where you are coming from (I mean this in more than one sense by the way).

A..

[Leunamros]

the last time i felt tiny was so gross i can´t share it here.

but it made me remember, a little, at least.

[Bilko]

Good question Rauch and a totally valid and well expressed one i thought.
I have often asked myself the same thing. There are many methods of obtaining a truth that sits well with you, some good ones are mentioned here.
Research if you know how and have the resources ( i don't ), use your gut feeling/heart/intuition. A good point was made here about different sources sending the same messages. This has been happening a lot to me lately, pieces of the jigsaw finally coming together.
I don't think there is such a thing as 'A' definitive proof though. My truth or validation requirements might be more or less than yours. I think the truth is a place we settle on alone.

You ( your higher self ) allegedly already knows the truth. The soul speaks to us using the vehicle of experience and feelings as words are the most misinterpreted form of communication. So, if something feels right to you then it often is right or true.

[mandroid]

Originally Posted by Ruach

Leunamros, I couldn't agree more. It is funny. Reminds me of the Sasquatch myth. The only "proof" we have is a 35mm film video from two guys who supposedly spotted one in California in the 60's.

On a different note, Steven Greer is a good starting point for evidence but again, his "proof" consists of "expert testimonies." Again, more supposedly credible people SAYING unbelievable things. Where are the documents, photos, memos, etc. Steven?

I am making a point here. Let me be clear that I'm not the guy who still wouldn't believe even if an ET walked up to him and shook his hand. I'm not looking for every possible reason TO NOT believe. However, I'm also not looking for every possible reason TO believe either. I'm trying to keep my biases out of my research and want to concern myself with evidence only.

Trust me, this is something that the UFO/ET community needs more of because it can be turned into a "religion" of sorts. People blindly and whole-hardheartedly "believe" and have "faith" because they want to believe and nothing will change their minds. There isn't anything wrong with having "faith," I have faith. But this topic demands evidence of some sort and there should, I might point out, be A TON of it available if what the thousands of whistle blowers, government officials, etc. are saying is true. On a side note, 9/11 was clearly not what the government told us, there IS an enormous amount of hard irrefutable evidence directly contradicting what the commission members told us.

My hope here is to get others to think about what they believe in and why they believe it AND offer up evidence other than blind faith.

hello rauch,i guess the only way you will get any hard evidence is if you see something undeniable yourself,for someone to have an experience is the only way they would really believe these things.the cia and other factions are
extremely good at disinfo/covering up ect..although i would have thought myself some undisputeable evidence should have turned up by now....

i have seen ufo craft close up on two occasions,thats why i found my way to this forum,if i had not had any experiences,then i would probably not
be interested in ufos e.c.t at all,or would probably be asking for more proof as you yourself are.


bottom line, you know things arn,t right in the world ,thats why your here looking for possible answers...

a.

[Ruach]

I've really enjoyed reading all these posts. Again, my goal is to think critically about this issue and to analyze it at every angle however hard it may be. Let me also say that I do not, under any circumstances, discount anyone's experiences related to UFO/ET phenomena. I myself have seen a UFO. I'm just trying to get at the root, I suppose, of the "how" and the "why" we all believe what we believe.

The skeptics will always be skeptical, the believers will always believe. But for the rest of us in the middle, we continue to discriminate, research, learn, and explore this subject without bias or assumptions.

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by Ruach

The skeptics will always be skeptical, the believers will always believe.

People can and do change. I offer myself as Exhibit A. Until about two years ago I was interested in the UFO phenomenon but had never seen anything sufficiently convincing to make me take it seriously. I ran into the Disclosure Project which convinced me their might be something to it, and eventually went to CSETI training and saw for myself. I now have ongoing contacts. There's really no belief involved in that aspect of things. It happens. It's repeatable, and others can see it. On the spiritual side, it was a drastic 180 degree turnabout, from hard core atheist and materialist to, well, something different. A little bit rough on me and those around me. It's still feels like it's just the start of a long process of growth.

[Agape]

But ETs still exist despite all the arguments above, why not ask them to provide us with some hard core proofs and why they don't do it..

Is it maybe that those who've seen them do not require more proofs

There's lots of people who have seen 'something ' already, few who had seen solid object and are 100% sure it was not of earthly origin.

Some of those who are 'abuctees' too would tell you that what they had seen was very solid and real.

It's not easy to believe it all without own experience. I was very skeptical towards this subject , especially as it carried huge stigma of insanity ,
before I knew and had seen it's real .

It's transcending our reality and not always fitting to it as we 'd need, many ways..

Ufologists can be fooled too but most I've observed are hard core skeptics .

The difficulty as I can percieve it is that we'd need to deploy the best of our human capacities to do more research in to the phenomenon of ET contact.

Love and respect

A

[Ruach]

Jnana, what do you mean by on going contact? Can you elaborate?

[Ross H]

Originally Posted by Ruach

I've really enjoyed reading all these posts. Again, my goal is to think critically about this issue and to analyze it at every angle however hard it may be. Let me also say that I do not, under any circumstances, discount anyone's experiences related to UFO/ET phenomena. I myself have seen a UFO. I'm just trying to get at the root, I suppose, of the "how" and the "why" we all believe what we believe.

The skeptics will always be skeptical, the believers will always believe. But for the rest of us in the middle, we continue to discriminate, research, learn, and explore this subject without bias or assumptions.

EST: 12 billion Galaxies and climbing (as they find more) Each Galaxy: 10 billion stars+ and counting, this Universe alone, Many Astro Physicist are now saying 'Mutiverse's, floating around what they call the 'BULK' like soap bubbles, if you will, Then we take into account the highly plausable multi dimensional theory(no 'hard' evidence as yet) and suspected to be infinate numbers of these, as with Multiverse's...

Logic, tells me we are not alone, Fractal science show's us the Macro/Micro self simulating model, each part is the same as the whole.

For me, I don't need hard evidence, The above mentioned is a good place to start to ponder its magnificants as Im sure you do. I kinda like not knowing it 'ALL'...

Peace

[Starlah]

Originally Posted by Jnana

Neither do internet forums. I don't know why anyone would waste their time on one.

_______________________________________


Bingo!!
__________________________________________

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by Ruach

Jnana, what do you mean by on going contact? Can you elaborate?

A combination of telepathic contact and sightings. I don't get that much information out of the telepathic contact - occasionally a confirmation for something I'm thinking. I feel that I'm better at sending than receiving so sometimes the confirmation is by way of a physical display in the sky. After a while you figure out what the various "gestures" mean (lines drawn in the sky in various ways). I even suggested one for "no" and they started using it. Most of my sightings are in response to a request. Occasionally they will just show up when I step outside and show me something. These are usually the most interesting. This happens as often as weekly, usually less frequently. If I haven't seen them for a while I will request a sighting and they almost always oblige. This all started with my first CSETI training a little over a year ago. I'm still working on closer contact, seeing the beings, better contact in meditation, etc. Maybe in time. The closest so far has been an amazing disk of light about 100 yards away at treetop level on a foggy morning. Most recent sighting was about a week ago - a teardrop shaped craft streaking across the sky.

[orthodoxymoron]

Could we all agree that remaining detached and constructively critical is a good thing? The ability to ask the right questions in the right way...may be more important than any conclusions reached. I do voluminous questioning and speculating on this site...some of which makes me very uncomfortable. The proper process of evaluation and decision making...may be the most important lesson we can learn from our participation in a controversial site such as this. I call this 'Thought Triage'. Unfortunately...I'm not very good at it yet. I'm too emotional and insecure.

Namaste

[Agape]

That's it. Some come here with their own living evidence I believe and they too keep asking questions. Some may have answers to one or two important questions your inner self-evolution needs to know, right now.
Seek the answers in the sky, in thy self, all around, maybe on forums as well as they too are part of the whole,
quite a unique international gathering without bounderies.
We take our freedoms here for inborn and granted but this is not what is happening in the world around.
We learn what to do with newly acquired knowledge.

Why do we only need to speak about it..

I'm sometimes more curious about those whose interests in anything seem to be so cut n dry, cool and impersonal, smooth like a snake that passes through everything untouched, they hardly can teach us anything,
they are just collectors of a knowledge without knowing.
They still do exist, beware of them.

We speak of our inner quest yet do we know who is ever listening to us.
We touch the space but do we touch the ground..

Originally, there come people WITH proofs. Followed by army of those without proofs who also NEED to SEE it .

Hugs

Agape