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Old 12-16-2009, 05:17 AM   #1
Ruach
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Default Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

I stumbled across PC a few months back and it literally shocked me with the interviews I watched and read. I've had to come to the realization, if what the whistle blowers on PC are saying is correct, that my world has been literally turned upside down.

However, I consider myself to be a scholar and academic (my schooling taught me this) and I must say that aside from the wonderfully fascinating interviews that are on PC, I don't see much in the way of hard evidence. Evidence meaning, documents, photos, leaked footage, letters, artifacts, etc.

I understand it is not the responsibility for PC to come up with evidence. However, it bugs me, nags me, and pesters me, that nearly all of the whistle blowers on PC don't produce hard evidence of any kind. If you've ever been to another credible site, Wikileaks, you know the type of hard evidence that I'm talking about. The evidence on Wikileaks is free for download by all to analyze, read, and interpret.

I understand a certain element of faith and trust must be involved here but there has to be more than just some guy/gal SAYING something unbelievable. TALKING about some super secret stargate buried in a pyramid or some ancient colony on Mars that has been existing for millenia sounds interesting but I'm not convinced.

So, is there any? Where is it? Can anyone point me in the right direction?
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:43 AM   #2
Leunamros
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

blurring ufo photos and videos, thatīs all the evidence there is..... funny, isnt it?.

Conspiracy theory is about gullibility, like any other religion. as a matter of fact is about connecting dots to make you think there is indeed a conspiracy goin on. It seems, but, Maybe, or maybe not.

It SHOULD be the responsability of Camelot to come up with evidence to back up its claims that this world is so screwed up. However, it fails, as any other website pretending so.


So, in the end, this conspiracy theory trend seems to be a conspiracy in itself: the conspiracy of apathy; they astonish you to make yourself so overwhelmed that you dont move a fingertip to change anything, just devouring the tons and tons of info available on the internet to make you entertained, because thatīs the trap for those more "intelligent" than the average, more "awaken", than the average.

They give you the supposed truth that makes you feel as a decent person in this world, even then, you dont even know the reliability of thos supposed truths. The love for truth, truthseeking is a double edged sword.

We are more than just truthseekers. We have an eye we should keep open, more than we ever imagined.
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:56 AM   #3
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

thera are no proofs
and they are not needed

this isn't a court room

you you disbelieve, just drop your further reading, just like evrything else in life, make your choices..
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:02 PM   #4
Jnana
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruach View Post
However, I consider myself to be a scholar and academic (my schooling taught me this) and I must say that aside from the wonderfully fascinating interviews that are on PC, I don't see much in the way of hard evidence. Evidence meaning, documents, photos, leaked footage, letters, artifacts, etc.

I understand it is not the responsibility for PC to come up with evidence. However, it bugs me, nags me, and pesters me, that nearly all of the whistle blowers on PC don't produce hard evidence of any kind. If you've ever been to another credible site, Wikileaks, you know the type of hard evidence that I'm talking about. The evidence on Wikileaks is free for download by all to analyze, read, and interpret.

I understand a certain element of faith and trust must be involved here but there has to be more than just some guy/gal SAYING something unbelievable. TALKING about some super secret stargate buried in a pyramid or some ancient colony on Mars that has been existing for millenia sounds interesting but I'm not convinced.

So, is there any? Where is it? Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I don't understand quite what you are asking for. Since Camelot is focused on whistleblower testimony, that's what you are going to get. Testimony. It is pretty much up to you to look at it and decide what to accept. Look at what is going on in the news, observe the trends that are happening (e.g., loss of civil liberties, more and more security cameras). Find out who is getting rich from all the junk going on. Use that academic mind.

My interest has been leaning towards the ET presence, and in that regard I highly recommend the book "Disclosure" by Dr. Steven Greer. Also, the books by Richard Dolan on "UFOs and the National Security State" are excellent. If you want to see UFOs for yourself, hook up with CSETI or ECETI. If your own eyes don't convince you, nothing will. If you want to open your mind to other possibilities, the Dolores Cannon books are excellent. Once you see the same answers coming at you from lots of different directions, a better understanding will start to emerge.

The last thing I would do is rely on Camelot as some sort of infallible information source. The sort of stuff you are asking for, documents, photos, leaked footage, can all be faked. There are also numerous clever story tellers out there. There's a reason it's called truth "seeking".

Oh, and most importantly:

Last edited by Jnana; 12-16-2009 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

Books have no answers at all on what people really are asking to see, books are only moneygetters. And many people are really tired of this conspiracy "world" of no proof at all and then leave and move on to center on other more productive tasks on their lives: one believer less each time.

when "blowerwhistlers" focus on getting money to let us know, that it will help the truth get out there, giving just ridiculous excuses to convince us, i think of them very bad.

And many of them focus on money too much for me to accept. Somehow they dont know how to handle the "truth" well untill you give them money to do so.

Itīs easy for the stablishment to label conspiracy theorists as nutcracks as often as they want to. So its like those labeled ones serve a major purpose they arenīt aware of.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

Quote:
when "blowerwhistles" focus on getting money to let us know, that it will help the truth get out there, giving just ridiculous excuses to convince us, i think of them very bad.

And many of them focus on money too much for me to accept.
if it doesn't ring true to you, just give it a miss..you don't have to read what you don't believe..

nobody is charging you to read Camelot .Nobody is charging you to air your opinion here either. it's all on a take it or leave it basis.

best wishes
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:27 PM   #7
Jnana
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

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Originally Posted by Leunamros View Post
Books have no answers at all on what people really are asking to see
Neither do internet forums. I don't know why anyone would waste their time on one.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:56 PM   #8
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

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Originally Posted by lightblue View Post
if it doesn't ring true to you, just give it a miss..you don't have to read what you don't believe..

nobody is charging you to read Camelot .Nobody is charging you to air your opinion here either. it's all on a take it or leave it basis.

best wishes
Thatīs not what i wanna emphasize. Did you got the point of my message?.

Itīs not about mental ringings, thatīs for sure....

The world of ringings is another history, im talking about hardcore objetive reality. Not intuition. We have to be careful on how we use our intuition, not to let it cloud our entire mind on itīs behalf. Just be balanced.
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

Where is the hard evidence that there are no unidentified flying objects, no extraterrestrials, no spirits, no souls, etc? Someone please tell us gullible folk what's really going on in this world and universe. Inquiring minds want to know. Give it your best shot!

Namaste
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

the absence of evidence, itīs not the evidence of itīs absence, yeah, im aware. But, if you choose either side you are gullible.

From my perspective, humilty is the best answer to our situation in the cosmos. So we can feel better what is goin on.

You know something?, we have to feel ourselves tiny, to perceive the grandeur of whatīs around us.

And, the truth be told, we are VEEERY tiny, very tiny.
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

Going inward toward infinitely small, tiny.

The numerous whistleblowers and then some hard evidence (such as http://www.ae911truth.org/flashmov11.htm) is utter evidence (to me)
that we are all mind controlled, THE biggest issue of all.

Valid question your thread. Pertinent, grounding!
I've invested a great deal of time (and money) researching links...
and getting not much of anywhere.... but as I've said before,
it IS entertaining.
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see"
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

Leunamros, I couldn't agree more. It is funny. Reminds me of the Sasquatch myth. The only "proof" we have is a 35mm film video from two guys who supposedly spotted one in California in the 60's.

On a different note, Steven Greer is a good starting point for evidence but again, his "proof" consists of "expert testimonies." Again, more supposedly credible people SAYING unbelievable things. Where are the documents, photos, memos, etc. Steven?

I am making a point here. Let me be clear that I'm not the guy who still wouldn't believe even if an ET walked up to him and shook his hand. I'm not looking for every possible reason TO NOT believe. However, I'm also not looking for every possible reason TO believe either. I'm trying to keep my biases out of my research and want to concern myself with evidence only.

Trust me, this is something that the UFO/ET community needs more of because it can be turned into a "religion" of sorts. People blindly and whole-hardheartedly "believe" and have "faith" because they want to believe and nothing will change their minds. There isn't anything wrong with having "faith," I have faith. But this topic demands evidence of some sort and there should, I might point out, be A TON of it available if what the thousands of whistle blowers, government officials, etc. are saying is true. On a side note, 9/11 was clearly not what the government told us, there IS an enormous amount of hard irrefutable evidence directly contradicting what the commission members told us.

My hope here is to get others to think about what they believe in and why they believe it AND offer up evidence other than blind faith.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

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The world of ringings is another history, im talking about hardcore objetive reality. Not intuition. We have to be careful on how we use our intuition, not to let it cloud our entire mind on itīs behalf. Just be balanced.
in response to Leunamros

No i didn't quite get your point, i still don't, but for what concerns your comment above, i can only say: speak for yourself. some of us may not feel so tiny at all at all at all!I think we are much greater than the society have us believe.
from a position of minuteness - what your aspirations can be?

i get the sense that we are born to feel great about ourselves.
just curious - what is it that makes it feel good and/or and/or make any sense and/or know more while feeling tiny?

best wishes
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

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Originally Posted by Ruach View Post
So, is there any? Where is it? Can anyone point me in the right direction?
There really isn't any which more or less forces you (unless you aren't concerned with the truth of a given matter) to research the "whistle blower" or "witness" as throughly as possible in an attempt to assess their veracity. In doing so you'll get a good indication I think, of just how probable any story they might tell would be.

Good luck.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:31 PM   #16
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

I for one search for the truth from an inner source. If something rings true for me than that is my truth. The whistle blowers are bringing forth their own truth from their own experiences. Take what you like and leave the rest. I like to keep an open mind. I don't believe everything that is presented. I do really appreciate Kerry and Bill's summaries because they help me connect the dot's.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:43 PM   #17
Leunamros
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

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Originally Posted by Ruach View Post
On a different note, Steven Greer is a good starting point for evidence but again, his "proof" consists of "expert testimonies." Again, more supposedly credible people SAYING unbelievable things. Where are the documents, photos, memos, etc. Steven?

I am making a point here. Let me be clear that I'm not the guy who still wouldn't believe even if an ET walked up to him and shook his hand. I'm not looking for every possible reason TO NOT believe. However, I'm also not looking for every possible reason TO believe either. I'm trying to keep my biases out of my research and want to concern myself with evidence only.

Trust me, this is something that the UFO/ET community needs more of because it can be turned into a "religion" of sorts. People blindly and whole-hardheartedly "believe" and have "faith" because they want to believe and nothing will change their minds. There isn't anything wrong with having "faith," I have faith. But this topic demands evidence of some sort and there should, I might point out, be A TON of it available if what the thousands of whistle blowers, government officials, etc. are saying is true. On a side note, 9/11 was clearly not what the government told us, there IS an enormous amount of hard irrefutable evidence directly contradicting what the commission members told us.

My hope here is to get others to think about what they believe in and why they believe it AND offer up evidence other than blind faith.
There are official documents that, seems to prove the existence of some alien intervention, but, even then, i dont get the thing i wanna get: hardcore evidence; Greer hasnīt done that yet to the point i dig it with my limited intelligence. One document.... means nothing, just a paper that says something.... you buy it or not.

Look at the Gary Mckinnon testimony... seems credible, and all that, the guy is suffering, facing the threat of prison and all that... but, even in those hard circumstances, im not convinced. No proof at all of anything, he saw some names in a computer, some bunch of words, bunch of words, that compromised his legal liberty.

The punishment he receives now is for violating a law of privacy, not for discovering there are aliens out there...

I think, im convinced there is some external intervention here but i canīt figure out itīs nature, thatīs all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightblue View Post
in response to Leunamros

No i didn't quite get your point, i still don't, but for what concerns your comment above, i can only say: speak for yourself. some of us may not feel so tiny at all at all at all!I think we are much greater than the society have us believe.
from a position of minuteness - what your aspirations can be?

i get the sense that we are born to feel great about ourselves.
just curious - what is it that makes it feel good and/or and/or make any sense and/or know more while feeling tiny?

best wishes
Itīs about that whenever you want to travel around everything that it is, that it seems to be, or that is yet created to be, in my own opinion, you have to use paradoxes as the fuel.

Humans here in this planet are trapped because they need a father to use as an excuse to refuse their own power.

They feel ashamed of what they are: beings more powerful than the more powerful being they have ever imagined.

If you wanna really feel the love the universe has to offer you, let it embrace you, as it has to be bigger than you in your mind. BUT, sadly, you have to see something that convinces you of that, really, you have to see real hardocre evidence, or you will dismiss all of this.

I didnt have found any technique to do this, as it seems there isnīt anyone to do such a thing. I have only realized we are pathetic beings, and that, it all starts from there. From stopping being so sophisticated, and just more human, vulnerable, mortal, lovely, only under those critical conditions.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

I think the questions you ask about the lack of "hard" evidence is a normal one. You have to remember where you are though and maybe ask a bit differently.

I have lurked on many different forums on my quest for gnosis and these posts are always generally the same. I would suggest to you my friend that you ask these normal questions during your development in a more thought/ heart filled way. There are many great minds on this forum more so than any other forum like this (which is why I decided to settle in here), many of these members have been working on themselves for years, have studied and read everything we can get our hands on and have meditated on our findings. The "truth" the "hard evidence" is within you. If it does not resonate than it will in time.

The lack of evidence to the contrary of the claims expressed in this forum and others like it, can be viewed as evidence itself. An open and compassionate heart will lead to an open and compassionate mind and that brother is the key.

We have all been indoctrinated our entire lives to believe that the World runs a certain way. Breaking down those barriers provides the path to the evidence you seek. As those barriers fall, more questions will be answered, but even more will be asked.

It is a wonderful journey, I wish you well brother.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

in response to LEUNAMROS

I think, im convinced there is some external intervention here but i canīt figure out itīs nature, thatīs all.

You put it you are CONVINCED - how can that be when you insist on hard proof? What's your hard proof that makes you CONVINCED? Just curious...
Quote:
Itīs about that whenever you want to travel around everything that it is, that it seems to be, or that is yet created to be, in my own opinion, you have to use paradoxes as the fuel.

Humans here in this planet are trapped because they need a father to use as an excuse to refuse their own power.

They feel ashamed of what they are: beings more powerful than the more powerful being they have ever imagined.

If you wanna really feel the love the universe has to offer you, let it embrace you, as it has to be bigger than you in your mind. BUT, sadly, you have to see something that convinces you of that, really, you have to see real hardocre evidence, or you will dismiss all of this.

I didnt have found any technique to do this, as it seems there isnīt anyone to do such a thing. I have only realized we are pathetic beings, and that, it all starts from there. From stopping being so sophisticated, and just more human, vulnerable, mortal, lovely, only under those critical conditions.
Again< I am not so sure what point are you trying to make..but if it is about feeling ashamed for beiing human - plese speak for yourself..I certainly don't feel like it..and we don't know about other people..when making general, sweeping statements just do so in your own name..

best wishes
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:11 PM   #20
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

i insist on asking for hard proof, and im not ashamed on being convinced there seems to be external intervention... thatīs my part on being gullible.

At least, it seems, after profound study on how the humans are, under my opinion, i think there are external influences, or, there are humans that know, light years ahead of you all, what we are, and use that to persuade all of you to believe you are an slave inside a matrix of control.

PERSUADE.


You are now hosts of a body, so astonishing, you could die of it; death by astonishment, sounds cool, isnīt it?..
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:20 PM   #21
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

Quote:
At least, it seems, after profound study on how the humans are, under my opinion, i think there are external influences, or, there are humans that know, light years ahead of you all, what we are, and use that to persuade all of you to believe you are an slave inside a matrix of control.
do you not count yourself as one of us?
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

Im just talking objetively. You can ask in a clearer way about what you wanna know. I feel convinced because my heart tells me so, but.... thatīs not entirely valid, you know; itīs just the 50%.

I ask for the other 50%, what the hell.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

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Im just talking objetively. You can ask in a clearer way about what you wanna know.


it's probably best for me to pull out of this excnhange..I fail to understand what are you objective about ..

all the best in you quest, whatever it may be
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:34 PM   #24
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

Hallo Ruach, I can imagine your bewilderment and wondering about evidence of what's being presented on Project Camelot. My suggestion is, to treat this intake of information similar as to digesting food. Many aspects of this kind of information needs to be processed by your whole being, not only the mind. I don't mean to say that you have to accept all this as truth, there's as many interpretations of truth as there are facets on a crystal. By looking for different sources, like the James Wingmaker material, the writings of Zacharia Sitchin, Barbara Hand Clow, The Law of One, which is published on David Wilcocks website, the Flower of Life material, Cosmic Consciousness by Richard Maurice Bucke 1901, to name a few, you will be able to discern for yourself. And time will learn. The first moment in my life when I was confronted with the realisation that things were not as I believed they were, I was bewildered and exited too, as you are now I believe. This goes for every human being that is awakening. First there's unbelief and fear, than anger, than action by taking responsibility for yourself as an awakened You. So, go easy on yourself and eat 1 spoonful at a time. Blessed be, Marian.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

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it's probably best for me to pull out of this excnhange..I fail to understand what are you objective about ..

all the best in you quest, whatever it may be

im open to any questions about me, no problem man. Hope you are not rude doing so...
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