I too saw an ET (and so did a friend of a friend)

[Steve_A]

Hi Everybody,

I've been known to be controversial at times, and it could be this time also, although I'm not really trying to be. I would just like to offer this open for rational discussion.

Since the beginning of UFO circles, just after WWII, several people have claimed to be in contact with or have seen ETs.

Not doubting them for a minute, and listening with an open mind to each and every one, there is something that is niggling me at the back of my mind and I need to get a question out there.

I've seen the Schneider testimony, the Robert Dean testimony, Sergeant Clifford Stone, Steven Greer, Barry King (sic) even some more modern time witnesses even the information about Ebe from Bill Cooper. And then there comes a dilema.

Who is right? Are they all right? Are only some right? Are they all wrong?

Robert Dean, although never shaking hands with an ET has seen photographs of them when he was working as a filing clerk in the late fifties / sixties. It changed his life.

Phil Schneider on the other hand worked at Area 51 and saw one in the corridor and took shots at it.

King claims to have seen rows and rows of them in all shapes and sizes, in incubators, on shelves even a huge reptilian taking a stroll in a corridor when he was working as a security guard.

Sgt. Clifford Stone claims to have interviewed at least one, communicating through thought waves.

Steven Greer claims you can meet them (over 57 varieties (like Heinz)) by putting yourself into another mental dimention, he even sells courses to the fact.

And there are others that inform us we have to contact our spirituality to meet these elusive creatures.

Yet we can all see their spacecraft if we look up to the skies.

So here we are at the dilema.

Are they physically real?

If you can see them as plain as day strolling along corridors, why should you need to find your spiritual inner self to reach another astral plane?

If you need to find your spiritual inner self, how did these people see them all being manipulated and trotting in the hallways of Area 51?

Were the photgraphs that Dean saw manipulated more than the embryos that King claims to have seen in the UK?

What I'm trying to get at here is that the story of encounters with ETs seems to have changed somewhat over the years from being a physical meeting, transcending to a spiritual meeting. So which one is it to be? One, the other or both? If it's purely spiritual, what isn't going on at secret underground bases?
If it's only physical, what are the spiritualists like Greer on about?

Any answers to this thread, please try and be objetive and courteous so we can have an open, intelligent and interesting debate.

Best regards,

Steve

[Dantheman62]

Great question!!, I would say it's both, spiritual and physical, that's my guess because I've never seen any but if there's so many types than I would think that both could exist.

[burgundia]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

I've never seen any .

neither have I.

[Egg]

Steve, Free E-book time.

http://www.alienjigsaw.com/I%20Forgo...-%20Wilson.pdf

Right click and 'save as' on the link.


Its from this web site

http://www.alienjigsaw.com/Abductees/abductees.html

I seperated it because I first downloaded it, scanned it through 4 different virus filters and its clean as a whistle.

Very infornative read, and well worth your time to have a look at.

[Jnana]

I would have to go with "both" as well. One explanation Greer has presented is that when technology is sufficiently advanced, what we call the "spiritual" realm is just as real as the physical, and can be accessed via technology. When UFOs materialize and dematerialize, they are performing a phase transition between physical and spiritual modes of existence. One story Greer uses to justify this view (found in his books) is of a newbie astral traveller who left his body, flew upwards, and bumped into a UFO, ending up inside and startling the occupants.

[David]

I will have to agree with it being a physical realm and not spiritual. I can only describe it as your current physical realm morphs into another physical realm. I don't know anything about the technical stuff like different frequency vibrations.

[franciejones]

I say "Hell, who knows"
What bothers me is, why the heck can I not meet one?
Why the heck would I want to if they are mingling with the government?

Good question Steve. I don't know who is right, but when someone (like Steven Greer) has something to sell as a means of contact, I shy away from that instantly. Just as all spiritual knowledge should be free, so should this type of knowledge be available to all for the cost of.........exactly zero dollars.

[franciejones]

Egg-thanks for the e-book link!

Good question, but I doubt it has an either/or answer. We humans have more than one body, the physical and the astral for starters. Maybe the same is true for the ETs.

Here's a thought. Most people can't see the astral, but apparently anyone can train themselves to do so. Some people can astrally project, which is taking control of/seperating the astral body from the physical, like the russian doll scenario. If the astral is 4D, would a 4D being see the beginning of an astral projection as a sudden materialisation of a human into its world?

If so, wouldn't it be possible that 4D beings need to train themselves to "tune in" to 3D, hence their apparent ability to manifest solid form then vanish? Are we just looking at the same process in coming down into 3D from 4D?

I think there are probably 2 broad categories. 3D physical aliens that have a similar set of abilities to us, though probably much more develped, and 4D and above beings that can project down to 3D.

If so, anyone would be able to see the 3D guys, but it would require spiritual work to be able to see the 4D guys unless they were consciously manifesting themselves in our dimension. It might also be the case that the 3D aliens are capable of projecting false images into the minds of observers in public but relax that in secure areas, hence reptilians strolling down the corridors.

Or any combination of the above.

I think I've written that incredibly badly but have I got the ideas across?

[milk and honey]

I thought Bob Dean said he had a personal encounter with an 'alien'. I didn't know it was just a photo.

Most of us know something about the multi-dimensionality of the material universe but it's worth re-iterating... The astral plane is the next closest in vibration to the physical. Likewise our astral body is the next closest to our physical body. The 'astral' is not a spiritual plane but a subtle material plane of which there are 4 main ones. It is the emotional feeling realm and contains a vibrational gamut of beings who vibrate with human feeling (but who cannot rise to the spiritual realms). Given the poor quality or low vibration of most human feelings it's obvious that an entity does not have to be spiritually advanced to occupy the astral plane. The lower astral contains some very nasty characters and so does the physical plane. When they get together in the same vibration and malintent they can seriously misrepresent themselves to humanity and they're obviously doing that in the 'alien / UFO' phenomena.

In my view all 'aliens' presented to 'contactees' and interested researchers are the soulless creations of earth based crooks (luciferians) and their astral counterparts in a joint agenda for greater control of the earth. All the creepy reptillians, mantids, greys etc are most likely their genetic miscreants engineered on or in the earth for the purpose of being possesed and controlled by astral fiends to advance their joint agenda. That is why these entities appear to have 'intelligence' and psi-powers. Their astral overlords are expressing themselves through their prepared physical instruments. But that's not the only reason. Their soulless creations are toys which have various levels of innate intelligence and self interest which is satiated and fulfilled in the roles they play. Nevertheless they're totally inferior and subordinate to their masters behind the scenes.

Some witnesses of UFOs report them disappearing in mid air. There would be several reasons for that. Either they shoot off at such collosal speed the human eye and even radar registers a 'disappearance'. Or they utilise cloaking technology to hide from the human eye.... don't know if that could fool radar though. Or they phase shift into the lower astral world. This would be child's play even to terrestrial science at this stage of the game. We don't need exoteric assistance for that, the multi-dimentional universe has been known to science since the 1880s and it's practical applications can easily be speculated upon. (although material technologies would only be capable of penetrating the astral realms not the spiritual.) That's not to mention the high likelihood of an ancient more advanced underground race or races ingratiating themselves into the confidence of secret gov't (luciferian) factions on the surface and perhaps sharing some of their own psychic and technical tricks with these most favoured and reliable stooges.

So i can't take 'witness' and 'abductee' testimony at face value and neither should they accept the scenarios presented to themselves by 'aliens' or their gov't hosts.

Are 'aliens' physically real? What is an 'alien' is the better question and then ask questions about their dimensional base of operations. I am convinced that in virtually all cases the secret gov't and their handsome subterranean allies are puppet mastering their technical and biological toys to fool us into believing that technically superior and spiritually wise, benevolent ET races are coming to earth. (malevolent ones too so they can 'save' us from them ) Accounts of human looking 'aliens' are certainly earth based individuals most likely a mix of secret gov't luciferians, their bio-engineered tools and subteranean foster doods.

Earth based incarnate entities have likely found ways to phase shift into the lower astral plane and back again. Astral based discarnate entities can express their will in the physical plane only through the instrument of willing physical entities and the creatures bio-engineered for them (so called "aliens") but i don't believe they can freely materialise in 3D except under extreme conditions for a very short time. They can be seen at times like that and they can apply force to physical phenomena but it is not like being incarnate in an earth body. I'd say the "aliens" that present physically are physical even when they appear to disappear. Those "aliens" are likely using cloaking technology to do that and if they're in a physical 'UFO' they're doing the same or temporarily phase shifting into the lower astral plane.

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by franciejones

Just as all spiritual knowledge should be free, so should this type of knowledge be available to all for the cost of.........exactly zero dollars.

Big question here ...
would you expect a mechanic to fix your car for free ???
or, do you expect a bill ???
would you expect your dentist to fix your teeth for free???
or, do you expect a bill ???

if spirituality is so important,
then, why should a spiritualist, NOT be able to earn a living
helping people ???

(as someone, who has given about 80% of my work away for free,
since about 1978, thats 30 years)

that means, i have given away 24 years of work, for FREE !!!

i am very curious, as, to how someone thinks the work
has NO value, and, should be given away for free)

often the work, can require 3 hrs, to just give a person one hour
1 hr to set it up, 1 hr to do it, and, 1 hr to recover from it
and, it is NOT something, most people, can do for themselves

i can see, that if someone charges someone
too much...that is NOT fair,
like i am shocked when i see,
the $150/$250/$350/hr rates

however, if someone charges a fair rate,
like $30/$45/$50/$60 / hr
then, why would that be wrong ???

spiritualists need to earn something
so, they can exchange with other people
however, giving it away for free
well, ironically, that can be quite karmic
for the person on the end of the FREE exchange

you can NOT take - without giving back

the universe, does NOT work that way

sure, i believe, we should share our knowledge,
but, a lot of that knowledge,
requires, demonstrating what we do,
and, in doing so,
doesn't the person on the receiving end of that work,
who gets good value,
need to honour us back, with some sort of exchange
that also has value ???

curious
susan

[franciejones]

I just finished the e-book link that egg supplied above. It is recommended reading. Very well laid out and very interesting