Go Back   Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE) > Project Avalon Forum > Project Avalon > Economy and Currency

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2008, 04:53 AM   #126
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Thanks for the post Zynox,

If you don’t mind, I would like you to clarify a few of your points, and share with you my thoughts on what you wrote. Given the volume, and to make it easier for readers, I’ll just number my responses in accordance with that in your recent post.

1. I think I posted this elsewhere, on a thread that hyped the “crisis” nature of our current economic situation. The gist of it was that for the Chinese, the word “crisis” is an synonym for “opportunity,” and perhaps we could learn from that duality.
2. NAFTA and other international economic arrangements with so-called “third world” are, in my mind, the strongest proofs for those who argue for the existence of the NWO/Illuminatti/Mason/Nazi/Catholic/Satanist/Zeta/Zionist/Annunaki/ “your space here” type of organizations. These agreements don’t make sense. Forget what they have done to U.S. cities like Detroit, St. Louis, and Cincinnati; look at what they have done to countries like Mexico and India. Mexico is an OSHA free playground for all industries, and the Indian government seems to want nothing better for its people than poverty and lower middle class status. I think India is a wild card that those of us concerned about China must consider. They are just as populous as China, and less wedded to U.S./Western European cultural forms. Resource poor, but capital and spirit rich, India seems poised, to me, to be a major force in negotiation and economic brokerage in the future.
3. If it ever gets that bad – we will be the power structure’s primary concern. While some of us are more than willing to voice our disdain at the ballot, they will have to deal with riots. Imagine L.A. after three weeks of no gasoline at all – forget intermittent delivery. As for the other point on 3, never forget that for the most part, no matter how jaded or personally enriched the local main street banker has become, he or she is more likely to be a real and good person than the top ten percent of the industry. Most of the local banks, business, and government officials will be just as confused as the regular folks. They’re getting fuxed too, my friend.
4. Agreed – Well said.
5. New York is just old real estate, I think, in this technology driven age. NY is a symbol – nothing more. An effective symbol mind you – it’s perils have done exactly what you said. But it is irrelevant.
6. I want you to explain, if you will, the phrase “incestuous squabbles,” my good friend Zynox. In that phrase, I sense, is imbedded a less than skeptical belief in the special bloodlines theories presented on this forum and on other venues. Some of the symbolism has me interested, and your clear interpretation would be valued – I’ll understand if you don’t want to lay that one out there.
7. I like to think of the universe as a well oiled machine; it runs on balance. Light/dark, good/evil, low/high vibration – its all there, and not about one besting the other on a mud-ball speckled map of the galaxy. Its about balance. Too much of one or the other messes the whole thing up. We keep getting stuck with the dark/evil/low vibration stuff for so long, we’re bound to forget what’s coming around the corner to balance it out. Besides, if I’m not mistaken, chaos is prized by the supposed Illuminati – “from chaos is order,” you know? I say screw chaos, and support the universe.
8. We are co-creators – and I share your sense of hope.

Thanks for the post Z, and others as well.

Last edited by historycircus; 10-16-2008 at 05:08 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 05:38 AM   #127
Zynox
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 243
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

My friend HC,

2) I did indeed post US centric, and deeply respect that the balance of the globe is further abused, by generally US based economic hit men (reference Perkins books) ... interestingly, my time in Costa Rica, Peru, Italy and Mexico have all exposed me to abject poverty and happier children, probably because there is less tv electomagnetic/spiritual pollution, and, fewer bike helmets and dotting soccer moms ... kids run around bare foot next to cliffs, and yet, they thrive ...

Beware, my hometown of birth, Detroit, is nearing ghost status, it never had the housing boom and there is a mass exodus, from so many midwestern rust belt communities, crumbling infrastructure and vast tracts of vacant and burned domiciles ... and now, forests are coming back, in the middle of the city, and chickens roam as wildlife returns ... surreal ...

3) Frankly, it really already is that bad, and we will collectively face challenges in building anew, we, my friend, have crashed, all that remains is intense fallout ... the time is absolutely now, there will be no CITIZEN BAILOUTS or TAXPAYER BAILOUTS, so we best get cracking, disengage from the failed models and create the radiant new economies and zones, WE MUST DO THIS, no government was ever capable. The deck chairs on the titanic have been rearranged, enough!

For proof that the crash is here and near complete, reference year to date losses in all markets across the globe at: Markets YTD

It is time, not to riot, not to whine, any of us, but to reach to a neighbor in need, be friends, work together and share our skills and resources ... NOTHING ELSE WILL WORK, we must claim our sovereignty and declare the governments irrelevant, by becoming and embracing, our power.

We must remove any level of participation in any and all paper games, which serve and enable the elite financiers.

6) I went down the bloodline rabbithole and never formed much opinion beyond that it was possible and curious. I was referring to the War in Heaven material, which feels more aligned as a game script. If it is close, then in the top ranks, the most mind control has been performed and fractured Manchurians misfire, and misbehave ... I suspect much in fighting at the top, as they each scramble to be the pinnacle of the pyramid ... wait until they find out they are mere food for others and not close to the real top of the food chain ... ouch!


7) We disagree on chaos impact some, I feel it, by nature, defeats order, and those with plots and schemes find things out of control, as feedback loops get interrupted, just like in physics or electronics when 'noise' enters systems and equations.

I do agree we have been down one directed and defined path so very long that we are very close to the new age, the golden age, the age I want to support ushering in.

~ i am tired so the post is best i may offer this moment ~

~ much love ~

and:

New NWO Meme ~ Please Spread it (HPH Sanctioned)

Last edited by Zynox; 10-16-2008 at 05:42 AM.
Zynox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 07:29 PM   #128
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Z - I can get down with the New World Orgasm! That is an NWO I could work for! Ha!

Many tribal societies believed - and still believe - that the tangible world we percieve is only a small part of a much larger, invisible world that surrounds us. It is a world we have access to - no change in vibration needed - but we have collectively moved further and further away from the doorways as we become creatures more and more disassociated with the natural world. If we are to truly evolve beyond what we are now, to cast off the modern paradigms of use, abuse, and control, I think we may need to take a giant, material step backwards in time. I think the PTB know this, that is why they are down in the lifeboats, applying silly putty to the hull, despite the fact that the boat is sinking only a few hundred yards from a coconut laden island of plenty.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2008, 01:17 AM   #129
Zynox
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 243
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Sir HC,

Interestingly, while a few have had a good laugh, the genuine response of folks interested in wearing such a shirt, and propagating a new meme, it quite sparse. I feel this means that we collectively have much to continue to shudder and shake off, like slowly shedding dead skin, and stale crust from that past world, as we evolve towards the new.

Perhaps it is just that the old world refused to sanction my gateway expression towards the new, i dunno!

One thing is for sure, the handlers have used sexuality as a control tool for eons untold, and, that my friend, speaks volumes ... meanwhile, most of my family genuinely perceives obama will be some form of change ... there are some dayz i question my sanity, in such a minuscule minority ... the 'humorous' exchange at the roast the other eve with all the puppets was most discouraging, as the candidates jab each other in jest, smirking chimps all ... as the globe and her people, yearn, for a freaking orgasm ...

~ much love ~
Zynox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2008, 06:07 PM   #130
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Good morning Z,

I agree - that roast video was disgusting. Without applying a label to the old power paradigm that may be wrong, whatever it is, Obama seems to fit right in. Obama's popularity, in my estimation, has less to do with him as a candidate than it does with the dissatisfaction of the American people with their culture, politics, and economy. It has all gone to shxt - our teenagers are out killing each other on the streets like the "greens" and "blues" at Justinian's Hippodrome, our politicians no longer hide their contempt for us (i.e., Joe Sixpack), all while our property values and legal tender lose what has always been pretended worth. Quite frankly, the Democrats could have put their donkey up for the nomination, and McCain would still be fighting in Florida. Obama is to the United States what Valerian was to the Roman empire - we will have to wait and see. I suspect, since Obama has not come out in opposition to the great lie of terrorism and has promised troop increases in Afghanistan, Obama will figuratively share Valerian's fate as well.

This leads me to an important question about McCain: if "we," and I use that term loosely, are operating off of an old script, dancing on cue for the Machiavellian producers of this tragedy, would not the election of McCain represent improvisation? McCain is not ideologically wedded to the loons on the right or left. Think about it. If this has all been planned in advance, all the terrible stuff we see today is merely orchestration on the part of the nefarious, then someone eight years ago probably hypothosized that the 2008 election would go terribly bad for Republicans. Is that why McCain was allowed to get the Republican nomination? As a final kick in the rear by the Bush cabal - "give it to him, the old ******* will just lose anyway." I can hear those words leaving Karl Rove's mouth. Obama, then, represents the script - the peaceful transfer of power takes place right on cue. And Obama gets elected, mind you, he will have a majority in both houses of Congress - unlimited power served up on a platter. McCain has not exactly been the greatest human being alive - years in a Vietnamese POW camp didn't help him brush up on his respect for women or realize the futility of war. But something tells me he is as much an outsider as one can be after decades in Congress.

It is natural to question one's sanity when dealing with these topics Zynox, especially when every human being you come in contact with every single day of your life refuses to even entertain that there MIGHT be script. Even the hypothetical consideration can be jarring for most. And when you do find another air breather in the flesh to speak with about it all, those encounters are few and far between. Sometimes I envy those who are still asleep. However, no matter how much scorn or disinterest is heaped upon us by our friends and family, the coming times, I tend to believe, will do more to wake them up than anything we could ever say - any video on youtube or any declassified document on the FOIA database. The challenge for us will be, when they do wake up, to fight the "I told you so" response we have been programmed to give, and instead ask them, "where do we go from here?"

The manipulation of sexuality is old hat - it is just one of the many issues thrown at us to keep us sqabbling and distracted from what is really important. It happens on the left and the right. The extreme right wing of this country, I am convinced, would like to have good old fashioned public burnings held by the church - "lets burn them gays at the stake in front of our children in the name of morality." I think the extreme left would like to have the mechanics of butt sex explained to our Kindergarteners right before they pass out the free condoms. Its all a game, but it depends upon our willingness to play. While the short term may be filled with dangerous absurdities the likes of which we have yet to imagine, I never lose hope that we will someday move beyond it all.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2008, 07:35 PM   #131
gwynned
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 88
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by historycircus View Post
Good morning Z,

Think about it. If this has all been planned in advance, all the terrible stuff we see today is merely orchestration on the part of the nefarious, then someone eight years ago probably hypothosized that the 2008 election would go terribly bad for Republicans. Is that why McCain was allowed to get the Republican nomination? As a final kick in the rear by the Bush cabal - "give it to him, the old ******* will just lose anyway."

I think the extreme left would like to have the mechanics of butt sex explained to our Kindergarteners right before they pass out the free condoms. Its all a game, but it depends upon our willingness to play. While the short term may be filled with dangerous absurdities the likes of which we have yet to imagine, I never lose hope that we will someday move beyond it all.
HC,

Your comments couldn't have come at a better time. I was just poking myself in the eye with an ice pick to calm myself after trying to explain to an Obama fan that he just might not be whom he appears to be. And yes, McCain was the throw away.

A small point, but an important one. You confuse LEFTism with Liberalism. The liberal agenda has dovetailed the capitalist agenda precisely in this manner - by perpertrating a victim and anything goes mentality that has decimated and disempowered the working class and is now working on the middle class. This is not a true leftist strategy where the goal would be to empower the working class.
gwynned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 07:47 PM   #132
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Hi gwynned,

I'll concede the point to you on technical grounds - the "left" and "liberalism" are traditionally speaking, two different animals. However, our political system has allowed them to evolve in tandem over the last half century, so much so that that I think both make up the ideologic core of the Democratic Party. They are so closely wedded in that organization, that I think supporters of that party can no longer cherry-pick one over the other. Does that make sense? At least for the current election cycle, and maybe the next. I am tempted to say the "left" proper, except in the arena of economy, is a dead movement in the United States - Liberalism is the predominant party philosophy.

I almost feel sorry for McCain - did anyone here see Colin Powell on Meet the Press this morning? A few posts back, we all were discussing scripts. Anyone get the sense he was reading from one, as he endorsed Obama through clenched teeth, and a similarly reacting sphincter?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 08:08 PM   #133
Knightbk
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 73
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by historycircus View Post
While the short term may be filled with dangerous absurdities the likes of which we have yet to imagine, I never lose hope that we will someday move beyond it all.

We will move beyond it and be relatively "all right" in the long term, but the old style of living out of our means is done and gone, forever.

Keep in mind that people on forums like this (and others) take a "worst case" scenario to the world view and that isn't realistic. We generally think that everything is going to collapse, there will be looting and rioting on all the streets and billions will die due to starvation and violence or exposure to the elements.

The United States will come out of this economic crisis in much better shape than the "worst case" scenarios people predict.

There wont be "millions dying" in the US, Death Camps, etc, etc.

What people fail to realize at the end of the day is that Rich and Poor alike, we are all connected and nobody in the West wants things to collapse. Even the East doesn't want us to collapse, though they do want more power and influence.

The world WILL find a way to "save" our system. There are very smart people out there working on this and they will do it.



Now does that mean we are going to go back to how we have lived the last 15 years? No, that is done. The world is going to change.

In 10 or 15 years from now you will look back and say "ya it got bad but we survived".

This is what is coming:
Lower living standards. It wont be third world but it wont be like it has been. People will not have 14 Plasma TV's in the home, 3 Cell Phones for the kids, Eat out 14 times a week, drive Hummers to go to work, have 6000 sq ft homes with granite counter tops, etc, etc.

So what if we dont have all that ****, did it really make a difference to our lives anyways?

No, we still have an empty whole in our soul due to lack of purpose.


There are MANY MANY benefits that we will gain from living a simpler life and people refuse to look at these benefits, but they are there and they are very tangible.

Community matters
Family matters
Friends matters
Spirituality matters
The environment matters.


There is a gaping whole that fills EVERY person in this world and the continual pursuit of more "stuff" only fills it for a short time. The next few years will teach people to fill that whole with what matters, not what doesn't matter.


We will be better off for it.
Knightbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 04:01 AM   #134
Zynox
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 243
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightbk View Post
The world WILL find a way to "save" our system. There are very smart people out there working on this and they will do it.
K,

I enjoy most of your perspective, and we are mostly in alignment. However, the LAST thing i want to see is anyone saving our system! Our system has, for far too long, directly demonstrated itself to be build upon blood, sweat and tears of others across the planet, and finally, those within our borders. Not to be cruel, but it took self cannibalism to collectively awaken, and, we are still groggy! LET US NOT HAVE REFORM, LET US CREATE.

I will keep folks here updated on what I see when I 'hit the ground' in a few weeks, leaving my home, familiar surrounding and becoming, proactively, homeless. I am non-electively unemployed for the first time in my many seasons and have given away most of those pesky possessions. I am not nudging anyone to do what I am doing, only presenting it to help bust up some paradigms. We are not stuck, we are sovereign, we are change, and, we are most powerful, when we align to purpose.

I watched a challenging documentary on the state of the state this weekend, and I encourage any and all to watch it if you seek a final nudge to become active in change:

What A Way To Go
Life At The End Of Empire


~ much love ~

Last edited by Zynox; 10-20-2008 at 11:23 AM.
Zynox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 03:38 PM   #135
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightbk View Post
What people fail to realize at the end of the day is that Rich and Poor alike, we are all connected and nobody in the West wants things to collapse. Even the East doesn't want us to collapse, though they do want more power and influence.

The world WILL find a way to "save" our system. There are very smart people out there working on this and they will do it. In 10 or 15 years from now you will look back and say "ya it got bad but we survived".

This is what is coming:
Lower living standards. It wont be third world but it wont be like it has been. People will not have 14 Plasma TV's in the home, 3 Cell Phones for the kids, Eat out 14 times a week, drive Hummers to go to work, have 6000 sq ft homes with granite counter tops, etc, etc.
Knightbk,

Welcome to the thread. On the one hand, I have to agree with the latter part of your post. The way we live our lives today is unsustainable. A dramatic sea change is needed to prevent environmental collapse, and promote internal and international peace.

But in a free society, the fine line between need and want can be razor thin. Capitalism and the acquistion of wealth have deep roots in the American and Western psyches (enter Max Weber's "The Spirit of Capitalism"), so much so that for most people alive today a permanent devolution from what has become normal will always be viewed as just that - something less than normal. Survival won't be good enough. Economic decline and poverty in this country have historically led to riots and rebellion. While a lack of Hummers and cell phones per household may indeed be what the world needs, a fundamental change in the psychology of America and the Western world will have to take place before the population accepts it as such. What did the people who lived through the Great Depression do the moment they could? Consume, consume, consume; hoard, hoard, hoard. In a sense, the Great Depression was not traumatic enough to change the "spirit of Capitalism," and neither will the crash of 2008.

As for those "smart" ones at the top, diligently working to preserve the sytem as is, their success will lead to 6000 square foot homes, and a Hummer and cell phone for every one of their family members. Capitalism is the ultimate pyramid scheme, is it not? (Double entendre intended.) If the bottom 90% have to experience a "decline in living standards," why not the top 10% too? Why should we consent to allowing that top 10% live off of the blood and sweat of our children's labor, and our children's children's labor? Capitalism has always been an inequitable system of production and exchange, and as discussed earlier in this thread, a system that cannot survive without expansion and exploitation of environmental and human resources. Those at the top will live lifestyles that are environmentally damaging and exploitative of the masses as long as we continue to consent.

I will have to agree with Zynox - a world where the present system survives is not a future I want my grandchildren to inherit. That is not to say I want them to inherit a world without laws or the Republican (as in the political philosophy, not the political party) spirit. But, preserving the current economic system is to preserve inequity and exploitation, and to invite environmental and cultural collapse. Are not the mechanisms of Capitalism dangerous to Democracy? If our politicians could be made subject to the rule of the people (as they were in the American Revolution, and arguably, still are), why not corporate America? I think the time has come for us to decide: are we men and women, or are we cogs? Are we markets, or are we communities? My fear is that the timeframe in which we make that descision for ourselves is incredibly short - and our indecision will allow others to make it for us.

Last edited by historycircus; 10-21-2008 at 09:21 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 04:04 AM   #136
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

I have just finished listening to the Jeff Rense interview with B. Fulford, and that was following the second Bob Dean interview. I have a few thoughts and questions for the group.

Both Dean and Fulford - as well as George Green and half the other whistleblowers interviewed through Camelot, Rense, Coast to Coast, etc. - invoked the horrors of the Federal Reserve. This institution seems to be at the heart of every conspiracy theory known under the sun in this century, and the last. There have been entire threads here on Avalon dedicated to the fight against this institution. That the Fed is bad is the consensus, I both get it, and agree with it.

But something Bob Dean said struck me: "one world government" is a necessary step on our evolutionary path - to move beyond what we are now as a species. Capitalism has the mechanisms in place to facilitate the growth of a one world government quickly, and allows for the practice of democracy. No matter what the theory - from Nibiru to more conventional "global climate change" - it appears that we need to unite as a species if we want to survive the coming years, and with great haste. Can we use the structures that exist, "rinse" them (thanks Zynox), and use them in a more equitable and noble purpose?

Capitalism has become a boogeyman, demonized even by myself, but I wonder now if it cannot be salvaged. Roses are not without their thorns, right? Capitalism has been steered since the turn of the 20th century toward uber-exploitation, but it has been the Federal Reserve in the driver's seat. They are the clearinghouse of capital upon which the markets depend. Can we simply purge the system of the "Fed," and preserve our market economy? Or is Capitalism too badly damaged, or too inherently corrupt, to rehabilitate?

And one more question. There is another side to developing a more, shall we call it, "enlightened capitalism." Fulford said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "people who go to work are selling poison soda to people. It's meaningless. People should be deciding to do something worthwhile, like making Mars green . . . ." Should we, the people, have a larger role as capital brokers for industrial development? Do we have a duty to do so, for the creation and maintenance of MEANINGFUL industries and projects? Since the taxpayers now own banks, and will probably be acquiring a few mortages along the way, and will soon be cutting corporate welfare checks to failing industry, perhaps this is the moment we take it all back? Maybe it is our duty to take it all back? Maybe we need an amendment to the constitution titled something like "The Industrial Oversight Amendment"? I don't want to come off as the ghost of Marx or anything, but perhaps we are confronting a future where the people need more, democratic control over the means of production; or in the new-fangled lingo of the Neo-Marxists, the people should restructure the relationships of production. And I ask this, is it not our moral duty to do so? If we don't, what kind of world are we leaving for our great great great grandchildren?

What you think? Grab the hose, or let the fuxer burn?

Last edited by historycircus; 10-24-2008 at 04:08 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 04:32 AM   #137
Knightbk
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 73
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by historycircus View Post
I will have to agree with Zynox - a world where the present system survives is not a future I want my grandchildren to inherit. That is not to say I want them to inherit a world without laws or the Republican (as in the political philosophy, not the political party) spirit. But, preserving the current economic system is to preserve inequity and exploitation, and to invite environmental and cultural collapse. Are not the mechanisms of Capitalism dangerous to Democracy? If our politicians could be made subject to the rule of the people (as they were in the American Revolution, and arguably, still are), why not corporate America? I think the time has come for us to decide: are we men and women, or are we cogs? Are we markets, or are we communities? My fear is that the timeframe in which we make that descision for ourselves is incredibly short - and our indecision will allow others to make it for us.

The system may or may not decide, it depends but we won't see a "collapse" like many people think. When I say a "collapse" I am talking about the starvation of half the North American population.

Personally, I believe we are being pushed to new forms of Socialism. The Liberals have been pushing "equality" and all sorts of things for 2 generations now, which makes most of what the young believe, to be inline with Socialism.

What will arise out of this mess is a new system where a new form of Socialism takes form, probably similar to Canada but with government owned banks and utilities.

I don't mind Socialism too much, however extreme forms of socialism are evil, because the Socialistic system lives and dies on people agreeing with it. Dissenters need to be removed from the system. In a capitalistic society, dissenter just become poor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by historycircus View Post
I have just finished listening to the Jeff Rense interview with B. Fulford, and that was following the second Bob Dean interview. I have a few thoughts and questions for the group.

Both Dean and Fulford - as well as George Green and half the other whistleblowers interviewed through Camelot, Rense, Coast to Coast, etc. - invoked the horrors of the Federal Reserve. This institution seems to be at the heart of every conspiracy theory known under the sun in this century, and the last. There have been entire threads here on Avalon dedicated to the fight against this institution. That the Fed is bad is the consensus, I both get it, and agree with it.

But something Bob Dean said struck me: "one world government" is a necessary step on our evolutionary path - to move beyond what we are now as a species. Capitalism has the mechanisms in place to facilitate the growth of a one world government quickly, and allows for the practice of democracy. No matter what the theory - from Nibiru to more conventional "global climate change" - it appears that we need to unite as a species if we want to survive the coming years, and with great haste. Can we use the structures that exist, "rinse" them (thanks Zynox), and use them in a more equitable and noble purpose?

Capitalism has become a boogeyman, demonized even by myself, but I wonder now if it cannot be salvaged. Roses are not without their thorns, right? Capitalism has been steered since the turn of the 20th century toward uber-exploitation, but it has been the Federal Reserve in the driver's seat. They are the clearinghouse of capital upon which the markets depend. Can we simply purge the system of the "Fed," and preserve our market economy? Or is Capitalism too badly damaged, or too inherently corrupt, to rehabilitate?

And one more question. There is another side to developing a more, shall we call it, "enlightened capitalism." Fulford said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "people who go to work are selling poison soda to people. It's meaningless. People should be deciding to do something worthwhile, like making Mars green . . . ." Should we, the people, have a larger role as capital brokers for industrial development? Do we have a duty to do so, for the creation and maintenance of MEANINGFUL industries and projects? Since the taxpayers now own banks, and will probably be acquiring a few mortages along the way, and will soon be cutting corporate welfare checks to failing industry, perhaps this is the moment we take it all back? Maybe it is our duty to take it all back? Maybe we need an amendment to the constitution titled something like "The Industrial Oversight Amendment"? I don't want to come off as the ghost of Marx or anything, but perhaps we are confronting a future where the people need more, democratic control over the means of production; or in the new-fangled lingo of the Neo-Marxists, the people should restructure the relationships of production. And I ask this, is it not our moral duty to do so? If we don't, what kind of world are we leaving for our great great great grandchildren?

What you think? Grab the hose, or let the fuxer burn?


Capitalism is a good system as a whole, with proper regulation but it really depends on the people in the system. In the 40's and 50's, the "Greatest Generation" in World War 2 had come out of the Depression and War and were willing to spread the wealth a bit. The subsequent generations (Baby Boomers) were more selfish. Generation X and Y are totally self absorbed and only care about themselves, hence we are OK we firing 2000 people to give ourselves a pay rise.

What impact does that have on Capitalism?

The impact is that the more selfish the generation, the greater the divide becomes between people. People only care about themselves and not about the community, and they do anything to get ahead.

Eventually the system collapses due to greed.

Right now, we are only a few steps above Feudalism.


The Federal Reserve is **** because it prints up money for the Government, and charges interest. Basically, it steals money from the people, directly.
Knightbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 04:35 AM   #138
adam
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

dear history circus,

there has been a long-term argument in international relations theory about what you just mentioned....

the anarchial space that exists betwen states. can it be eliminated? if so, does it require a one-world government...

according to liberal internationalism, no. there are so-called "rules to the game" which is the institutionalization of international norms of engagement that can govern the so-called anarchy that exists on the international stage.

is a one-world government necessary for our evolution as human beings in this temproral space? no.

however, i will say that there is a trend toward (and it will be gaining great speed) the stronger institutionalization of norms governing the foreign policy of nation-states.

the cry started after WWII when it became blindingly apparent that sometimes a country cannot govern itself and protect its own citizens from crimes due to the failure of state-level institutions (i.e., the holocaust).

many say that the 6th day of ethics/blossoming of the mayan calendar will start here next month. i would agree on a spiritual level....

expect to see a greater trend toward regional integration as the sovereignty of individual nations has been slowly erroded over the years by such things as globalization of trade, communications, transnational civil society organizations, the internationalization of rules of democratic governance, etc....

there is strength in numbers. however, sovereignty and cutural differences are vast. a one-world government is an impossibility.... however a confederacy of states on a regional level is quite possible given geographic, language, and racial barriers that still do dominate our thought processes.

I would also like to mention the trend toward democratization. Liberalism stresses the importance of self expression. This is something people tend to take for granted when discussing the rich tapestry of human existence by debasing our evolution and referring to us as "sheep".

Dr. Deagle brings a lot to the table. I do however wonder at times if his expansive view of the present has not skewed his vision of the future. It is easy to be bogged down in the mire of destruction that surrounds us, but....


a slight shift in the paradigm that describes our human thought processes... a so-called shift from linear to non-linear thinking would immediately change all of this (2012 emergence of a new paradigm).

food for thought.

peace
adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 06:12 AM   #139
MMe M
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 211
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by historycircus View Post
Perhaps silver, gold, and platinum exude a field magnetic (or magic), in conjunction with other magnetic and gravitational fields, that keeps us paying attention - for some reason.

Hell, I don't know.

Honest money has been long gone before you and I were born. Andrew Jackson, despite being a disgusting, racist, Indian hating killer, warned us about transferring our system to paper. He hated Biddle, the father of our central banking system. His hate was probably wrong, but his apprehension about the use of paper, symbolic script seems right on.
I dunno, Jackson fought against federalization of the states, he made efforts to limit the power of the afluent elite. He ousted the brits from New Orleans and killed a man in a duel to defend his wifes honor. He's awright by my standards. Weve had far worse presidents.

What killed all the indians was destroying their food source by way of slaughtering millions of bison, taking their lands from them and educating their children. A genocide practiced by the government through more than one president.
MMe M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 04:12 PM   #140
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Knight,

All economic systems look good on paper - socialism and capitalism are both fantastic models of production and exhange. Its when people get involved with that rascally self interest that things fall apart. Extreme self interest - greed - allows for the development of the pyramid in both systems. It turns capitalism into a free-for-all where starvation and poverty are called freedom, and dignity and humanitarian sentiment are valued in relation to their neutral impact on profit margins. Socialism outright rejects the necessity of poverty and starvation, but greed at the top can lead to them anyway - and the people are FORCED to call them freedom. What is it about our nature as a species that does this? What does that say about us as a collective? Can we artificially develop mechanisms to prevent self-interest from derailing either system, while at the same time ensuring, at the very least, those rights enumerated in the first ten amendments to the U.S. constitution?

Also, keep in mind that the so-called "greatest generation" did not come back to "spread the wealth," they came back to accumulate it. Nothing like a great depression and the bloodiest global conflict in recorded human history to make a man want a new stove, ten children, and that fabulous patch of grass out in front of that new house, eh? It was their quest for affluence - what Marx described as the endless condition of the beourgious - that drove the post-war economy, not a humanitarian desire to spread the wealth. The latter would have been dismissed as "Commie talk" anyway. And, despite their massive consumption, it was the GI Bill that ultimately fixed the U.S. economy, not the New Deal, WWII, or the rapacious consumption of the 1950s.

Adam,

Welcome to the thread! I tend to agree with those who argue that a one world government is not necessary - and I like the notion of a confederated structure over some sort of formal, sovereignty dispensing union. The species is too culturally disparite in the present age for such a structure to exist anyway, as you pointed out in your post. We all know how smashingly successful the U.N. turned out, right? Many will argue for such a global superstructure in the name of peace, neglecting the fact that sometimes there are things worth fighting for. I guess the question I am seeking an answer to is not so much "is a one world government necessary," as it is "is a one world government a natural stage in the evolution of a spiritual, sentient species?" Under current paradigms, it would lead to the further enslavement of the many for the benefit of the very, very few. By the way, I too think the "sheep" thing has to stop - such labels smack of the very elitist pretensiousness that has turned this world to shxt, and I never fail to see the sad irony behind the use of the term by the so-called "enlightened."

I do not believe that a shift in human thinking - from linear to cyclical - will reduce the amount of bloodshed we as a species create among ourselves. All Native American cultures in North and South America - especially the Mayans - held to the cyclical worldview. Warfare became highly ritualized - often treated as sacred - but was not eliminated.

MMe M,

How many bison were wondering around northern Georgia in 1830? Are all the Indians dead? Do you really idealize a man who kills other men because of personal, verbal insults directed to his wife?

You must clarify, but I thank you for your thoughts.


This thread has really seen a big boost in quality in the last couple of pages, and remains a refuge for civility - for that I want to take one more sentence and thank you all.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 05:04 PM   #141
samncheese
Avalon Senior Member
 
samncheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puyallup, Washington state
Posts: 138
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Capitalism requires a form of slavery. The masses must agree to be enslaved in debt to make a few wealthy. Someone must work for next to nothing so the other slaves will buy it cheap enough to go out get into more debt. Now all are inslaved to debt (but a few), The question shouldn't be is capitalizm bad? The question is what do you replace it with???

Comunism sucked, what do you put in it's place??? I suggest that something new must happen to man and his lust for power must change before the way we deal with each other, on a global scale, will change.

I am not saying we are all power hungery, but there seems to be just enouph of the type in each group to screw things up.
samncheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 10:15 PM   #142
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Hi Samncheese,

I know there is a lot of stuff out there that speaks of debt as an evil thing, but dig this. Let's say I'm broke - flat broke. No change, no gold, no assets. You are my best friend, and have money that does not need to be spent for two weeks. The only way for me to get back and forth to work for the week, and pick up my paycheck on Friday, is to find someone to borrow twenty bucks from. I turn to you, my best friend, and you loan me twenty bucks - essentially making me a loan, expecting repayment, and allowing me to fall into debt.

Am I evil for asking for, then taking the loan? Are you evil for loaning it to me, and promoting my debt? Is that not what the capitalist system is supposed to do on a much larger scale? Are all forms of credit/debt immoral? These questions, I think, steer the discussion here right back to the original intent I had when starting this thread - to discuss practical and useful ways for those who will be a part of future safe/radiant zones to engage in economic activity. For that Samncheese, I thank you greatly.

So, what do you all think?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 11:49 PM   #143
adam
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by historycircus View Post
Hi Samncheese,

Am I evil for asking for, then taking the loan? Are you evil for loaning it to me, and promoting my debt? Is that not what the capitalist system is supposed to do on a much larger scale? Are all forms of credit/debt immoral? These questions, I think, steer the discussion here right back to the original intent I had when starting this thread - to discuss practical and useful ways for those who will be a part of future safe/radiant zones to engage in economic activity. For that Samncheese, I thank you greatly.

So, what do you all think?
dear history circus,

i think spreading the vibration of abundance is crucial to the upliftment of the group. People these days are far more responsive to such notions. The 80s are over. This is the fundamental difference between 3rd density, solar plexus fear and what people call 4th density heart/harmony/abundance.

I think the Ra material referred to 4th density as the "green ray" and said that it is already here, but its a matter of people aligning themselves with this vibration.

Only ten years ago, I was barely able to speak to people about such things as abundance and heart "vibrations" without being labeled a crazy new age hipster w/ absolutely no idea about what's really going on.

These days, I speak and say "heart vibration" and people nod and say "yes!" I think the radiant zone is non-physical. I think the radiant zone is one's aura which radiates peace and upliftment and abundance to those who are still in the dark.

But lo, the dark isnt a comfortable place anymore and people want out. Sure some want to stay still, but even simple eye contact w/ people these days is enough to spread the radiant zone.

So to answer your question, I believe it is individual effort and the radiance of joy which is the presence of one's soul in daily life that transforms a waiting world.

peace
adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 11:58 PM   #144
Zynox
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 243
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam View Post
the anarchial space that exists betwen states. can it be eliminated? if so, does it require a one-world government...
~ how about, we take sovereign responsibility for ourselves, at every layer and level, then trust each other, and then, finally, quit trumping the opportunity and potential for anarchy ... take a look, my friends, the 'top' already runs this way, in anarchy, without law, without consent ... all we see is stage play, to ensure that we don't start wondering if this anarchy card might be good for all, a ticket to salvation, so, to, speak ...

~ and to another poster, yes, it is, in fact a house of cards, otherwise, why would the newly released bailout / welfare deal documents (( whereby the deals are documented where the government initiates wholesale wealth transfers to banks and fiscal (whore)houses )) have so much redacted and blacked out? our collective tolerance and distraction, coupled with deception, are the framework holding up the house ~ WAIT UNTIL THAT BUTTERFLY FLAPS ITS WING!!!!

Does anyone rationally think that the street value of the dollar should be increasing, in these moments, or that the street value of gold should be falling (it IS not, try to buy anything at a coin store at published spot prices) ... and once one consciously (WITHOUT EMOTION or 'beliefs') answers these questions, then, well, the veils drop, and the emperor ~ GASP ~ is butt ugly and naked!

~ much love ~

Last edited by Zynox; 10-25-2008 at 06:18 PM.
Zynox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 12:00 AM   #145
Zynox
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 243
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam View Post

So to answer your question, I believe it is individual effort and the radiance of joy which is the presence of one's soul in daily life that transforms a waiting world.

peace
Adam,

I love you brother, along with all posters here, but you have ~ NAILED ~ it.

And that emote animation, well, it warms me fierce~!

~ much love ~
Zynox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 02:49 AM   #146
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam View Post
I believe it is individual effort and the radiance of joy which is the presence of one's soul in daily life that transforms a waiting world.
Agreed. Those words are inspired by wisdom.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008, 01:08 AM   #147
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zynox View Post
~ how about, we take sovereign responsibility for ourselves, at every layer and level, then trust each other, and then, finally, quit trumping the opportunity and potential for anarchy ...
If it is all a well crafted lie, how much responsibility to we really bear? Some to be sure, but all? Are the monkeys at the zoo responsible for their captivity? Excercising sovereign responsibility in an autonomous, altruistic way in this day and age gets one scrutinized and persecuted in completely immoral ways.

If it is all about free will - emphasized by the "whistleblowers" and gurus alike - why are we, as a species, being pushed to excercise a free will now, after centuries of suppression and manipulation designed to inhibit and outright crush it? Its like asking a three year old to solve complex algebraic equations, and when he can't, chastizing him for his immaturity and lack of intelligence.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 06:50 AM   #148
Rocky_Shorz
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,098
Default Question for all of you experts...

If I understand it right, October 31st is the end of the Hedge Fund year, most will dump poor performing stocks to show a strong cash balance for the new year...

What does that mean when all the stocks have been poor performers? Are we looking at a massive sell off before close on Thursday?
Rocky_Shorz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 03:35 AM   #149
historycircus
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

The closing bell has come and gone - I think the market actually ended up today. The market will probably decline steadily for the next 12-24 months, unemployment will creep toward 10%, and we will continue to export our "slightly higher than minimum wage" manufacturing jobs - but I just don't think the system will be purposely crashed. It is not in the best interest of the PTB.

I listened to NPR today on my way home, and one of the first spots on "All Things Considered" was a bit on the credit default swaps. Our economic system can be frightening when the light gets shined on it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 07:58 PM   #150
Rocky_Shorz
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,098
Default Re: Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse

unless our Irish friend is right about a disaster coming this Sunday, I think we are going to make it through this night of the Mayan Calendar that ends Nov 7th...

Barclay's won't accept European Money, are they holding back the Illuminati or do they own this bank hoping to pull money in from other sources?
Rocky_Shorz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Project Avalon