For "Survivors" Eyes Only

[Peace of Mine]

One enterprising couple has been living in the mountains of Oregon by choice, in temporary shelters, for years without being detected or run out of their habitat. They have been editing a newsletter for almost 30 years about their experiences. Pay $20 for the back issues, if for no other reason than to set your fears free.

These people have not only survived, they have thrived. And they have shared the secrets of how to set up a shelter that is not disturbed by hunters, or wardens, or anybody else, on public lands. They take simple ideas, like solar ovens, and tweak it until it works for them. They share exactly how to make the most efficient rocket stoves with simple materials on hand, or build a heater in the earth, and angle the smoke so that it will not be easily detected.

They share specifics of a food storage program under the most daunting of conditions. They'll make you think about basics with down-to-earth clarity that will convince you that it can be done. On the smallest of budgets. With specifics.

Most of us would not choose to live such simple lives, unless it became a matter of survival. Bert and Holly's Newsletter is part of my survival gear.

Dwelling Portably, POB 190, Philomath, OR 97370 $20 cash for (30??) back issues plus I'd send $5. for postage. They don't ask for it, but everything else has gone up, so I'd include it as a donation.

[showmemo]

A great topic I see allot of things to scare people though as this should be a positive thread of thought though. Have you ever wondered maybe the government says they have this and that to scare people into thinking oh my what ever shall I do they are far to powerful, sure they do have some things we have seen them but here is a thought of something that happened not to long ago. Remember seeing Israel gathering their forces on the news how they news made it seemed they where so mighty and strong? as they where ready to role into Palestine, what did happen they did not stay long did they as a few groups without tanks or jets and even helicopters sent them home hey how about Vietnam no more said there sorry vets I know the powers that be played you guys and guess what they will again to the new soldiers.

This lesson should be taken to heart as there has always been a Goliath and a David all the clenches the bigger they are the harder they fall should be listened to. Mobile is good yet have a base of operation have a way to gather forces and then when not needed split off to smaller groups and KISS (keep it simple stupid) know when to fight and when to run see you must get information on how to survive and how to lead to be able to train groups here is one good read The Art of War is a nobrainer. Good military books from the Ranger and Spacial forces they have ones to teach on how to survive in the cold to learning to read a compass and map. Learn field crafts and how to store caches in the spot you pick with your friends, train on gun use and other weapons such as bows for hunting. At this stage it may be best for you to find like minded people in your area you can train with now do not be afraid to ask questions you can only do so much online, you have to go out and do these things to learn as reading can do only so much.

Go to your local gun shop or sports store let them know you need to find a weapon for hunting game a small cali. such as a 22 for small game squirrel a shotgun for turkey or ducks and larger cal for deer,also a bow but you must train to use them. Learn to field dress your catch and to tan a hide how about a fishing pole cannot go wrong there. Do not get overwhelmed stay focused and figure out your needs such as how to start a fire and what back pack should I use, start to hike with it to get trained with it also.

As for a fortification I feel you should have a spot yes but do not fortify it learn to build shelters and be able to leave it quickly to your next site and next cache always be two steps or more ahead.Think higher ground where you have the advantage of seeing further and for protection build into the side of hills like the Vietnam did LOL I think I have gone on and on enough mabe to much LOL we all have callings and all have speacial things to bring to each other,I feel I was trained in allot without my knowledge but hey that is a diffrent subjet for a diffrent day.

This is the best time to be alive and I thank the creator for every day and the gifts he gives me just think we get to live in the time they have written in the past and we are the players in this play I for one do not want to sit on the side lines do you?

peace hang ten

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

i think we amy face similar here in britain soon.. the pine needle info is interesting.. can anyone elaborate further??

[Soul Sequence]

Originally Posted by pineal-pilot-in merkabah

i think we amy face similar here in britain soon.. the pine needle info is interesting.. can anyone elaborate further??

To Quote Waterman
"Pine needles are very dense and hard and IR has a hard time getting signatures throught them. When you are uder trees with needles your heat rises through the needles and cools rapidly as it passes by the needles, and the IR light cannot penetrate the needles verywell. It is something that John Moore talks about." and " If I were to suggest anything I would suggest listening to John Moore at www.thelibertyman.com He is an expert on survival"

[Shechaiyah]

You know, the planet Mars has a very extended history and it is a very old civilization.

Despite what NASA says about Mars, it is inhabited, as attested to by a number of contemporary informants: Collier, Hoagland, Cooper, and so forth.

In studying NASA interpretations of the Mars landscape, what I find is that their architecture is "hidden." Roofs of their structures look like flat rocks; they are hiding. And I believe they are hiding for the same reason we may want to hide: abductions. Alpha Draconis abduct humans FOR FOOD.

what we learned from Bucky Fuller is that geometric shapes conserve and accumulate energy. What we learn from alternative physics is that we live in an electric universe.

Put this all together, and we may develop a new architecture, clustered energy-conserving homes that are undetectable from satellites and probes.

May we find the way to be safe and appropriate.


Shech--

[SynchrOMicity]

Well U better hurry! As far as food and self preserevation, a very inexpensive item is a 22 cal. rifle, and you can still get ammo for about 8-13 bucks. That's 500 rounds. Goes along way for eating, etc. Will post other ideas later.

[Dantheman62]

I grew up in northern Minnesota and yes there is still land that man never goes to, but to be way out means you need to be way out there!. The best way to look at it is to go back to the indian ways, such as tepees which are very easily picked up and moved. I have spent the night outside in 32 degrees below zero and you can't build a fire big enough to survive, for example our fire was 5 feet across and 5 feet high and it was like there was no fire at all!, so you must be able to contain the heat, hence a tepee. On the other hand I've also gone through 3 hurricanes in south florida with no electricity for over two weeks in 97 degree heat and 90% humidity, the worst part about that is you just sweat and stink but you survive! Guns are a must to hunt and protect and I've got plenty with plenty of ammo also, and none are registered. The easist way to deal with whatever happens is to look back about in the past! If you need light, you light a candle, if you need food, you hunt and grow what's needed, if you need heat and cooking, you use wood, if you need water, hopefully there is a lake or river nearby or at least within a days walk. That's the simplistic way of looking at everything. I recommend not staying in a cave although it would hide any heat seeking stuff, there's only one way in and one way out! So piece of cake, just live like the pioneers did, or indians did!

[Carrie Todd]

Good info. I think it's important to have several contingency plans. If at all possible, especially if you're rural, I think it's a good idea to stay put. You will have access to food (hunting, fishing, farming) and water (streams, ponds, wells if lucky). On that note, I think it would be a good idea to have a bow and arrows. That would be easier to maintain and quieter to attract less attention. Of course, it is only as useful as your, or someone in your family's, ability to use it.
Picking up a survival guide and a manual regarding the properties of plant varieties (for food, medicine, etc) in actual book form is a good idea. If things get really ugly I am in no way counting on having internet access.
This is also why a group of us got together this weekend to share contact info. I think networking with like-minded people in your area is an EXTREMELY good idea. There can be safety in numbers, but only if your numbers are safe...if you know what I mean.

[bosr]

When everything hits the fan (if it does), then I believe we should be thinking defensively. I would hate to encourage anybody to face our troops, law enforcement, etc. face on. Your focus should be on self preservation. Any weapons you have should be geared towards hunting and self defense.

Be safe.


Download a free survival manual here

[Sol Invictus]

Seems like i found a home here amongst you good folks.

I'm going to share a few thoughts to help discussion along. I am UK based but what i have to say would apply world wide.

First off, stay light and mobile. Do not build forts or visible 'homes' for at least 6 months after the situation goes bad. Those first 6 months are going to be very bad and the authorities if they have retained the ability will go 'all out' on its populations for control.

Light, mobile, stealthy. Organise maybe 5 or 6 temporary shelters and areas, all around or near places where survival has better odds i.e. rivers and forests. You start building structures, you have started to build radar markers for them to aim at. Structures need to be 'random' in nature and highly camouflaged for defense.

My personal opinion? start learning some real field craft now, and get a bit used to living 'out a bergen' for a few days, and build up and up until your hobo fishing, eating off the land and able to make homes and fires from scratch every couple of days.

Its tiring, exhausting even, but believe me, there is a whole world of edible food stuff out there for the taking if you are on the move constantly.


As a person who is very familiar with military and LE kit, i can tell you now that any dwelling above ground in any form of an organised 'shape' is going to get a millimetric radar snap taken and also its IR 'foot print' mapped.

If that foot print changes in the time they are watching, you know boots on the ground are going to come looking.

[Sol Invictus]

Let me explain a bit about an IR foot print.

They will take both near and far IR photos of an area and measure the reflectivity. Foot prints disturb the earth and change this by small amounts. Enough foot prints disturb alot of top soil, so the 'darker' under soil will be reflecting light as it is exposed.

This will change the 'footprint' and expose any human activity.

[bosr]

Sol Invictus - welcome.

Do you have any tips for finding food in the winter?

[Sol Invictus]

Pine needle tea and phloem chips to stave off starvation and vitamin c deficiency.

Trapping and snaring along animal tracks in the snow (animals will use a trail time and time again, its this predicatability that gets them caught). Creating a system of bird lures and traps. A morning collecting wild berries, scattering them for a lure and then springing the trap shut gets the hungry bird time and time again.

Making a 'fish float' and having it rest in the river.

Now, the fish float will catch many many small fish, but does need a bit of preperation. However, once made will keep feeding you and yours for many moons to come.

Winter need not be a time of starvation, it just needs alot more efficiency of energy and thought.

If you have a bow or a rifle, a deer hide or stand will get you a handsome meal for many in one fell swoop.

[bosr]

Originally Posted by Sol Invictus

Pine needle tea and phloem chips to stave off starvation and vitamin c deficiency.

Found this when trying to figure out what Phloem chips are...

This is a survival tip for those out in the wilds who need a drink and a bit of a health boost

So its snowing, your down to the survival firelighter, your axe and a steel cup. Your thirsty, hungry and feeling a bit under the weather. You come to the edge of a pine forest. So what do you do? eat and drink well, and get a huge vitamin C boost to boot is the answer. Heres how.

See that pine tree? that there is your food, drink, shelter AND fire.

The fires easy, pine goes up well. Shelter? well, the boughs will shelter you well enough for the while in the lee side. Your drink? well you just fill your cup with snow or water, and boil it to kill any nasties. 10 minutes of a rolling boil is well enough to sterilise it. So what to add? Pine needles. Using a patch of material to act as a tea bag, gather up a handful of nice green needles, as close to the trunk and low down as you can - these are packed with vitamin C. Fill your material, and add it to the water. Let this boil until your water takes on a nice deep colour. Remove your make shift tea bag and sup up. There is 5 times more vitamin C weight for weight than a lime or lemon. Thats pine needle tea.

Now for some food.

Take your axe and remove a large square of the lower top bark from your tree. Underneath this bark is a sappy fibrous layer called the phloem. This layer transports all the goodness around the tree - it is packed with sucrose and other goodness. Taking you axe, cut off thin strips all the way down to the hard inner core wood. Take these strips, slice it down further, and place them over your roaring fire to bake. The sucrose will make them go golden crispy, and then you can eat away.

Drink, food, fire AND shelter, all from your good honest pine tree.


NOTE: DO NOT USE OR EAT A YEW TREE. It is a distinctive tree, deep bushy green with red chinese lantern shaped berries with a thick waxy appearence. This tree is deadly poisonous to a human. Do not use, eat or in any way try to consume this tree. Avoid it.

[bosr]

With all the talk of IR tracking...

I'm curious what we should expect if marshall law were to become a reality? How much resolve would the authorities have in tracking us down? Given the numbers of deployed forces covering the entire populace of a country, would they have enough resources and desire to find all of us?

Metro areas should be fairly easy to contain, but what about rural areas?

In short, how concerned should we be?

[Sol Invictus]

I made a seperate thread for it regarding the phloem and tea.

However, thats Good info, and I forgot to add that a yew tree is deadly poisonous to a human being.

Good point, ill amend my thread.

as for IR tarcking.

One global hawk at 40 thousand feet will be able to cover thouands of square miles per day looking for heat signatures. It helps if its cloudy or raining as they cannot penetrate very well.

However, their millimetric radar can. So don't go near established areas, stay way way out of the way.

[conniec818]

Originally Posted by Soul Sequence

Excellent link and resource, Waterman



and I'm still looking for more natural methods, btw the "cover yourself with mud" method doesnt work, it will for a few seconds, minutes, then your body heat will just heat up the mud.

Regards and Blessings,
Soul Sequence

greetings to all....
as per "covering yourself with mud"....no this doesnt work...but supposedly..solar blankets do...and if my memory serves me correctly..fire resistant blankets do also...ill have to look into that last one though..

[bosr]

Originally Posted by Sol Invictus

One global hawk at 40 thousand feet will be able to cover thouands of square miles per day looking for heat signatures. It helps if its cloudy or raining as they cannot penetrate very well.

However, their millimetric radar can. So don't go near established areas, stay way way out of the way.

If we setup camp(s) under dense foliage, will this hide our tracks? Might be tough if we don't have leaves in the cold months.

[Sol Invictus]

To be honest, winter time requires a trade off.

Do you stay still and potentially starve? or do you move out into the open and expose yourself to danger?

Now I cannot see many people having LRRP discipline when out and about, so exposure will have to be traded for the use of the journey.

The real answer here though is to stay as far from civilisation as you can, make your group as tight and disciplined as possible, and stay out of areas with any military or former military bases.

In times of emergency, empty bases can quickly become forward operating areas, and then your screwed.

[bosr]

I guess maybe stashing food and water in several places in advance may have a big payoff.

I'm out of here for the night. Thanks.

[LiquidSwordz]

Sorry to tell all of you, but you are all wasting your time talking about your survival. If the worst case scenario does happen, your chances of survival will still be low, and i will tell you why.

The body cannot survive 3 days without water, and 6-7 days without food. Food, i don't think will be your biggest concern, but WATER will! Sure, you can carry a couple hundred purifying tablets and filters, but sooner or later your tablets will run out, and your filters will go bad. If your tagging along additional people with you, it will run out faster.

You can go ahead and try drinking water from a river or lake, but the question is, has your body adapted to drinking from these natural sources? NO! Our immune systems have gotten weaker since the introduction to sterile waters,unknown immunizations, and manufactured medicines! You will all end up getting sick, and now tell me, how will you cure your illnesses? No more going down the street to get an aspirin.

The only people who will survive, will be the people who already live off the land, since birth "indeginous people". They know how to hunt, know where all the food is, immune systems have adapted to the natural enviornment, and know how to treat there own illnesses etc.

I don't know about you guys, but if **** really does go down, i got my gunz ready, and those bastards wont take me alive period! I will take out as much of them as i can! Live free, or die for me!

[Sol Invictus]

Originally Posted by LiquidSwordz

Sorry to tell all of you, but you are all wasting your time talking about your survival. If the worst case scenario does happen, your chances of survival will still be low, and i will tell you why.

The body cannot survive 3 days without water, and 6-7 days without food. Food, i don't think will be your biggest concern, but WATER will! Sure, you can carry a couple hundred purifying tablets and filters, but sooner or later your tablets will run out, and your filters will go bad. If your tagging along additional people with you, it will run out faster.

You can go ahead and try drinking water from a river or lake, but the question is, has your body adapted to drinking from these natural sources? NO! Our immune systems have gotten weaker since the introduction to sterile waters,unknown immunizations, and manufactured medicines! You will all end up getting sick, and now tell me, how will you cure your illnesses? No more going down the street to get an aspirin.

The only people who will survive, will be the people who already live off the land, since birth "indeginous people". They know how to hunt, know where all the food is, immune systems have adapted to the natural enviornment, and know how to treat there own illnesses etc.

I don't know about you guys, but if **** really does go down, i got my gunz ready, and those bastards wont take me alive period! I will take out as much of them as i can! Live free, or die for me!

Rubbish in, rubbish out as the saying goes.

Your response shows a total lack of knowledge and evidence of learning.

Water can be boiled, food is readily available, people can and will survive, even some city folks who have taken time to learn a little bit of knowledge.

Everything else can be learnt 'on the fly' from others in your group.

Shechaiyan makes a good point about architecture - does anyone have any practical experience with what he is talking about, or the domed structures that George Green discussed in one of his interviews?

Originally Posted by Shechaiyah

You know, the planet Mars has a very extended history and it is a very old civilization.

Despite what NASA says about Mars, it is inhabited, as attested to by a number of contemporary informants: Collier, Hoagland, Cooper, and so forth.

In studying NASA interpretations of the Mars landscape, what I find is that their architecture is "hidden." Roofs of their structures look like flat rocks; they are hiding. And I believe they are hiding for the same reason we may want to hide: abductions. Alpha Draconis abduct humans FOR FOOD.

what we learned from Bucky Fuller is that geometric shapes conserve and accumulate energy. What we learn from alternative physics is that we live in an electric universe.

Put this all together, and we may develop a new architecture, clustered energy-conserving homes that are undetectable from satellites and probes.

May we find the way to be safe and appropriate.


Shech--

Welcome Sol Invictus - this is the first chance in days I have been able to check the direction this thread is taking, and I welcome your input - - THANKS!

LiquidSwords - while I am all for being prepared (thus the thread), I am not just concerned about "surviving." After whatever comes, I would like to be in a postion to help as many others as I can. To take a page from the good people on Avalon, let's keep this positive. This thread is not just about simple survival, it is about positioning oneself to live in service-to-others mode after whatever may be on its way.

Thanks everyone!

[bosr]

Providing a nuke doesn't fall on our head, we inhale smallpox, a volcano erupts under our feet, wer'e thrown off the planet from a pole shift or get smothered in nerve gas; we will not only survive, but we'll do it in style.

Survival comes first, without it nothing else matters. Dead people cannot help others.

There are smarter ways to overcome without going out in a blaze of glory. Be prepared.