Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth...

[ENdJOY]

Czymra...this is the point I was trying to make...what M&H is expressing is their own "belief system"... it is not based upon experience with the WMs or even this interview...it is based upon what they "believe" is being said...compared to what has been said before by others promoting other teaching, which support them.

James, is not the "leader" of the WMs "religion"... he didn't write them or steal or borrow them from some other teachings... the truth is, was, and always be the SAME, no matter who is expressing it...no one has a copyright on it

and if by saying, hitting below the belt, means trying to kill the messenger, yes, I agree... maybe this is why James has only come out from behind the curtain once before... because people want to take potshots at him, instead of addressing the message he is bearing.

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Maybe this is why James has only came out from behind the curtain once before... because people want to take potshots at him, instead of addressing the message he is bearing.

How do you differ between the message and the messenger here? It's not like we can separate the two is it?

[Ashatav]

The funniest thing is that some people believes everything, like the wingmakers/urantia.

Without proofs (or against the existent physical proofs).

Comes from No-Where.

Pro New World Order sillyness.

Is the Worst form of Religious fanatism existent.

(I don't have religion so don't bother attacking me for that).

Cheers.

[ENdJOY]

very simple... just pretend you don't know who said it... anyone with a Sovereign Integral's perspective could have answered these questions...and they would have answered them the same, in their own unique style.

the messenger is not the Wingmaker's materials...

[ENdJOY]

Ashatav...what makes you think you will be attacked for sharing your truth?

and how (or maybe better why) would anyone "believe everything" when it is stated clearly, that the materials contain, fact mixed with fiction, in their introduction? http://www.wingmakers.com/pre.htm

Question 8: If the WingMakers story is both truth and fiction, how are we to discern which is which? If the identity of the WingMakers is quite authentic (i.e. true), how can it also be myth (i.e. fiction)?

Buddha stated: "All reality is a myth. Myth becomes ever nearer to reality." The quality of one's discernment is proportional to their ability to accelerate their movement to the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness. A system of philosophy like the WingMakers requires a high-level of discernment, and it is therefore teaching on multiple levels simultaneously by intermixing truth and fiction.

This material is not meant for the weak of mind or lazy of heart. It is extremely challenging on many different levels, discernment being one of them. There is a significant amount of information encoded into the art and music that bypasses the conscious mind. In this way, discernment is not required. However, the Ancient Arrow Project story is indeed fiction based on acquired insight of factual scenarios.

[Ashatav]

And New World Order propaganda, of course.





Imagine a persong singing this in the wilderness:



Worst Kind Of Religious Fanatism! Tra la la la



Believing without proofs! tra la la la


You must read this

MUAHAHAHA

[ENdJOY]

Actually, if you were to research the Interviews...Dr Neruda, exposed the NWO, the illuminati, the Inclunebula, the secret government - in detail...etc etc etc, eleven years ago...long before anyone was talking openly about it on the internet.

He revealed the governments secret treaties with ETs, and the technology they were swapping for permission to "experiment" on humans...and many other things at risk to his own life.

if anything Dr Neruda was a whistleblower

he explains in detail, how what the PTB are doing in the form of a NWO...will, in fact, be used by "higher intelligence" to usher in a new age of equality for all.

“If you, the reader, wonder how the information I’ve presented about the Incunabula relates to all of the various conspiracy theories about the New World Order, intelligence community, Illuminati, Freemasonry, and all the other supposed clandestine organizations of the world, I would respectfully ask you to suspend your prior notions about the motivations of these various groups.

“These are not evil-minded organizations regardless of how some portray them. Their members have children and families just like you, and they take pleasure and disgust in the very same things as you do. They are humans with all the same weaknesses for vice and greed, but they also have a strong energy to improve the world, it is simply that their definition of what a better world is may differ from yours.

“If your interest is to conjure an antagonist for your amusement, that’s your prerogative. But the issues I’ve related tonight are too serious to be amusing. They are deserving of your attention and discernment. Do your own investigation into the energy supplies of our world. You may come up with different numbers than what I mentioned, but only because the technology of the ACIO is more advanced than the petroleum industry. Nonetheless, you’ll see confirmation of this general condition.

“Look at the current events of your time whenever you read this interview. You’ll see how this plan is progressing. It may seem to take detours, but the general course is what I’ve described. It is moving in this direction not out of accident or because of the whims of the world’s leaders, you can be sure. It is all part of the orchestration of events that are played out according to the well-designed blueprints of the Incunabula planners.

“You may feel a certain anguish that you’re being led to a future not of your choosing, but if you want to have influence, then you need to be educated and aware of the real forces that are defining your future. This is a free-will universe. There is no hierarchy of angelic beings guiding the destiny of earth. There is no ascended master who dictates the pathway to enlightenment for humanity or the individual.

“If you truly want to express and apply your freewill, make it a personal religion to know the facts. Learn how to look behind the stories that are being sold by the media and politicians, and form your own conclusions. Keep your doubt intact about everything you’re told from the political stage, especially when you’re induced to be patriotic. It is one of the clearest signals to be suspicious of what you’re being told.

“When enemies are created – especially new ones, be wary of the motivations of those who claim them to be enemies. Investigate the facts. Look under all the rocks and verify your evidence. Each of you must become investigators and learn the art of research and analytical study if you want to feel more a part of the movement to globalization.

“Your insights and understandings may not change humanity’s course one millimeter, but it will change your ability to feel a part of this migration and have a sense of where humanity is moving and why.

“And to those who prefer to strike out on their own path and believe that globalism is pure folly, I can only explain to you that it must happen. It is the outward expression of who we are and it is the natural progression of our species to unify around the inner essence of our identity, instead of the outer façade of our particular nation or religious belief.

“I believe everyone understands this to varying degrees, but it is the methods of this unification that concern people. And I share this concern. If we’re collectively informed about the plan and understand the end-goal is something that holds a great promise for humanity, we can pursue this goal with greater velocity and with added confidence that the methods will be in everyone’s best interest. This must be our goal.

“And finally, many of you may feel that globalization is a concept of the New World Order and therefore dismiss it as a movement borne out of greed and the lust for power. Yes, there are always those who will take advantage of this movement to achieve personal gain, but the reason to become a unified people on this earth is far greater than the personal gains of a few. Remember this as you read your conspiracy stories.

[Mystic Pilgrim]

I believe Endjoy you took Milk and Honey’s criticism of James out-of-context. The point he/she was making was that James did make a sweeping generalization or statement, declared as fact, that all the great minds of this world, despite their greatness and Oneness with the SI, are still inferior because they are still connected or are trapped with the HMS. I, for one, believe the Great Minds have already encountered the SI, or why should they be called “the Enlightened Ones”?

The problem with James is that there is nothing largely ORIGINAL with all of his writings. Other than the esoteric writing, fancy names and acronyms James uses – which up to now I am having a hard time remembering -- it is, to my analysis, an amalgamation of different philosophical and spiritual sayings from some of the great minds of this Earth. This is one reason why a lot of us, including initially myself, highly resonate with these writings.

But content-wise, it doesn’t mean that we cannot use it. I still think his “Techniques of the Intuitive Mind” are most helpful in generating compassion from the heart. But to say that these are original ideas is certainly and obviously a lie and even a sacrilege to the great masters of spiritual thought. And that is where the problem is – when people might mistake it for such – the work of an even greater mind.

The image of the SI in this link: http://www.sovereignintegral.org/ is also not unique. Rather a combination of the 3rd eye chakra system and that of the winged discs out of Ancient Egypt. I would rather continue meditating under Buddhist tenets which teaches of compassion, moderation and also, Oneness in Mind than to be eternally trapped in an SI of such mediocrity and blandness.

Another thing that I actually found odd ever since I started reading the Wingmakers materials since 2003, when I was researching on the internet for info to explain my newly heightened faculties, was that I never resonated with the paintings nor the so-called futuristic music. Try as I might, I could not elicit a “heightened awareness”, which is what the WMM has been claiming will be generated, every time I looked at the paintings or even listened to snippets of the music.

I find this rather odd because I could go into feelings of rapture while listening to the Gregorian Chants since I was a child (basically the traditional choral recordings or live performances of the chants, not the modern, synthesized, jazzed up versions), even before I found out that they were the Solfeggio frequencies, as discussed by GregorArturo, one of our Project Avalon members in a separate thread. Or be humbly enthralled while looking at Salvador Dali’s painting, the Crucifixion (Corpus Hypercubus), certainly an astounding work of art by the master.

Unfortunately, I couldn’t say the same for the WMM chamber paintings. I find them a curious hodgepodge of different tribal and ethnic symbolisms put together, with a touch of new age mysticism for effect. Other than that – it doesn’t raise my vibrations, try as I might. But perhaps, as the site had said, it was created for a specific purpose – to raise our higher faculties to meet the SI. I personally find them entertaining ― no more than that.

Now as I was researching a bit into this Wingmakers lore, I found this link: http://www.bielek-debunked.com/Wingmaker.html. It is written by Marshall Barnes, the UFO researcher, and claims of having talked with Hempel through written correspondence as early as 1998 – something that I have not known since I started reading the WMM materials only in 2003.

Apparently according to this link, the UFO scientific community back in 1998 was already grilling Mark Hempel for his very commercially oriented Wingmakers website and its veracity. Mark, according to the interview, even went out to comment that James “. . . is meeting with scientists and is not someone who aspires to be in the limelight.”. Now I thought he was publicity-shy?

Have a read and judge for yourself.

Endjoy, after reading all your postings, I do honestly and strongly believe you are the one with an agenda.

[Frank Samuel]

I for one have my reasons not to completely dismissed the wingmakers site . Anonimity does not work if you give your name and website link. James who ever this person or fictional character is needs to come out in the open to help us better understand. Did he acquire his knowledge from past lives regresion, studying from different masters or just simply reading. This is important in particular when one is claiming a certain graps of the truth. There's a contradiction in his explanation of Anu as being the God of this planet , a duality that is both God and satan at the same time. This makes compassion and aggression, hate and love, life and death, selfishness and selflessness of equal value. Thus in reality makes very little sense it goes against the teachings of many great spiritual masters. Anyone who is clear about our true origin would not consider our origin as a constant contradiction, this would mean the total aniliation of all if one cannot gain mastery over our own contradictory nature.
Thus what is the point of even trying. The annunaki are part of the mythology of our planet history, many things need to be understood about our so called ancestors, remember James claim that humans where the only 3 dimesional beings in the universe. I am not putting James down , I believe that we could graps any concept , I do not believe that we have to wait 3 more generations. Understanding goes far beyond words, it is a mixture of sounds and frequencies which resonates within ones soul. My congratulations to all the project avalon members for we are not easily persuaded by fancy terminologies without substance, this is part of our awakening process fully demostrating that all of us are capable of grasping all kinds of truth wether fictional or non fictional.

[Czymra]

May I ask what others thought about the passage EndJoy quoted from Dr. Neruda?
That rings very true to me.

Something I don't understand is why everyone here is so hung up with 'facts'. I mean, what are facts? Clearly many of you have experiences they can't prove scientifically, so why would you at all be interested in making such a statement?
How do you, in your personal practice draw the line between pure channelling and that which is intercepted by 'lower beings'?

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel

Did he acquire his knowledge from past lives regresion, studying from different masters or just simply reading. This is important in particular when one is claiming a certain graps of the truth.

In my view he has parsed a sizable chunk of the religious and metaphysical literature, may even have fallen for a false teacher himself at one time and he's now sufficiently well researched to present the world with the greatest story ever told and the greatest chutzpah it has ever seen. James claims to be "just like you" yet "not exactly" because of his unique ability to translate information from higher levels of reality.... aka, channelling. If he is a channel rather than a 'creative writer' (alone or in concert) then he is a channel for astral entities like most other channellors are. Given the philosophical, historical and psychological targets of the WMM i find it impossible to believe it originates from the true spiritual Hierarchy.

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel

There's a contradiction in his explanation of Anu as being the God of this planet , a duality that is both God and satan at the same time. This makes compassion and aggression, hate and love, life and death, selfishness and selflessness of equal value. Thus in reality makes very little sense it goes against the teachings of many great spiritual masters. Anyone who is clear about our true origin would not consider our origin as a constant contradiction, this would mean the total aniliation of all if one cannot gain mastery over our own contradictory nature. Thus what is the point of even trying.

I see what you mean. On another message board earlier this year i had a similar objection to the "Ra" material. I am convinced that the concept in question is false. That is, at the periphery of life - where most of humanity dwell - the dualistic forces are created by the freewill of creative beings, ie, ourselves and all other fractured personalities in the multiverse. That creative domain is a cauldron of relative opposional forces produced by (and atracted to) ourselves in a state of spiritual blindness. It's forms appear real only to those who cannot see through them by realising "true identity".

The twist which the "Ra" channellings perpetuate, and which the WMM now reinforces, is the claim that this schitzophrenic play of oppositional forces is God's true nature. Granted, it has been confirmed by those who have percieved the essence of Self (and therefore all forms) that All is One. Jesus, Guatama and others realised the logos at the heart of themselves and of all forms. They saw the "true nature" of things not merely their outer forms. They percieved that all forms - physical, astral, mental and etheric - are comprised IN ESSENCE of the same consciousness which animates themselves.... The Logos. Conceptually at least, this idea is fairly widespread.

It is a far stretch however, for "Ra" and the "WM" to claim that the periphery of life reflects the true nature and intent of the Creator at it's centre. Those who know, say it is not so. Appearances are clearly decieving to most people but not to some who (for their own agenda) know that their representations in this regard are fraudulent. If Anu exists as an evil being then he certainly has not created the universe.

The logos is the source of the 'river of life' whose energy flows through us as creatve force to form that which we concieve in the mind... thoughtforms, feeling forms, physical forms made with hands. The energy flows through us continually and we each impress it with our mental/emotional patterns. We are in the process of creating and reinforcing those patterns continually sowing the energies into form and reaping the karmic harvest. The adepts discovered this personal creative process and revealed it to all.

In their personal union with the logos the adepts proved that the dualistic manifestions apparent on the screen of life were created by the relatively ignorant and malicious minds of beings (like ourselves) trapped (by ignorance) in the external planes. They discovered that the oppositional, warring forces that appear to our senses were not concieved by the logos and do not express it's true nature and identity. The divisions deep within the psyche of man and woman are responsible for the warring nature of external forces. ALL oppositional forces/appearances have been woven out of the ONE light of the logos and cast upon the screen of life (the material planes) through the distorted lens of our own minds.

As we each re-awaken to the inner logos we are empowered with a vision to transcend and transmute the discord of our miscreations and destructive impulses which were produced in a state of ignorance (of the logos). We are not simply born into a world where the evil ANU has produced a psychic prison for us. The limitations of our belief that oppositional forces are real is the unfortunate karmic product of aeons of incarnations in the lower worlds spent ignorant of the logos. But it is not the true nature of God at the heart of those forces. God's true identity has simply been trapped (by our own creative processes) in a false identity which can be transformed under the melting rays of the inner sun when realised consciously.

The COMPLIMENTARY FORCES of spirit are at the core of everything... The flow of the 'river of life' out of that spiritual Source passes though each individual lifestream (you and me) and obediently conforms to the patterns of the mind. When we awaken to the source of it we know the resolution of appearances.

So, i agree with you Frank Samuel. I believe that James' WMM and the "Ra" material are both trying to reinforce a distorted description of God's nature for slightly different reasons. In "Ra's" case, it encourages souls to choose the "Service To Self" (STS) path by instilling the belief that STS is actually an expression of the true nature of the ONE and therefore is supposedly a valid route to re-union with the ONE. As if the gross harm involved were actually a true expression of God's true nature.

We are invited by "Ra" to choose either "Service to Others" (STO) or "Service to Self" (STS) as equally valid paths to Ascension/Union with the ONE. We are told that somewhere up around '6D negative' the "STSelfers" can "easily" merge across to '6D positive' and move on to re-Union with the ONE. This idea is ill-intentioned gobbledegook calculated to decieve hopeful fools (on the path of STS) that they are on the right path and can wait 'till later (in '6D negative') to concern themselves with an "easy" transition to '6D positive' whence they can complete their ascension to God. And all this is ostensibly based on the "reality" of oppositional polarities as the supposed true nature of the One. No mention is made of the fact that souls on a STS path must reincarnate to serve those they have harmed in order to balance their lawful karmic responsibilities. In the low vibration of their black hearts they absolutely will not sail through "6D positive" then on to re-union with the ONE. After what they've done, and if opportunuty remains open to them, they will simply return to earth in a worse state of consciousness to shoulder their grievous karmic burden. This particular "Ra" (who is not the same 'Ra' Edgar Cayce spoke of) is not 'serving others' by leading them so badly astray. But what have we come to expect from 'service to self' entities? They wrap themselves in a garment of piety and truth.

Which brings me to the twist in James' WMM and why a schitzophrenic mask is being sold as the true nature of the creator of the universe. Anu is NOT the creator of the universe or multiverse. James probably read that somewhere on the internet but he would know it is not true and i will try to illustrate why.

The omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent spirit of the logos is the intelligent, loving power at the heart of creation. It flows through the Elohim who assist in the conception of the material multiverse as a laboratory of self discovery for souls to fulfill creative purpose. It was not created by 'Anu' as a trap for our souls. But, some beings (call one Anu if you like there are many other names) rebelled against the divine plan (for our souls in the multiverse) and fell into a lower state of consciousness and the habitation of the lower astral and physical planes. Ever since the fall, they've been dedicated to the enslavement of other souls. Having knowledge in the laws and uses, they have resorted to war by all means... Light, Sound, heat, rays of all kinds, incantations, black magic, mind control in church and state, etc etc etc. It is a Battle of Armaggedon in the material planes that has been raging for aeons, it is not exclusively a future battle ..... though one may come. They always do.

If we are to believe James, the evil alien god Anu is resposible for creating the universe as a trap at it's foundation. What is the subtext of a statement like that? The primary cause of our ignorance and entrapment has always been the wicked Anu for creating the hitherto impenetrable walls of the multiverse. We are not really responsible ourselves for falling into duality consciousness and for our appetite and desire to perpetuate it. No, the primary responsibility for that lies with the omnipotent, irascible Anu, not with ourselves.

Is there justice in the universe? There certainly is and we would not be in our current predicament as a race if we had not personally constructed the walls of our own prison. There has never been a time during our sojourn on Earth when we were incapable of deconstructing the psychic conditions that have blinded us and bound us to terra firma. In fact, at least twice before, we succeeded to a high degree in doing just that. In the process of deconstructing the image of pseudo identity we rose into our true identity... for a while. But we keep falling back into the darkness of ignorance and vulnerability to the subtle scams and scam artists who attempt to keep us in that state. The enemy is a part of ourselves (the blind ego) and also the external entities who appeal to it in order to keep us blind.

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel

I do not believe that we have to wait 3 more generations.
:

Neither do I.

[efields]

Originally Posted by Czymra

May I ask what others thought about the passage EndJoy quoted from Dr. Neruda?
That rings very true to me.

Something I don't understand is why everyone here is so hung up with 'facts'. I mean, what are facts? Clearly many of you have experiences they can't prove scientifically, so why would you at all be interested in making such a statement?
How do you, in your personal practice draw the line between pure channelling and that which is intercepted by 'lower beings'?

Yes some of the semantic arguments are ridiculous. They are akin to Seth Shostack stating the off worlders could not be coming here as the distances are too vast...sic Our knowledge of Reality is akin to pointing a finger at the moon and howling. We simply barely possess a rudimentary understanding of our reality. And many religious zealots are so full of themselves they quote whatever Book they choose to believe as reality. We my friend are in Dark ages and believe ourselves to be state of the art. Well you see the UFO and just know, its not so.

[Czymra]

That was thorough yet again, Milk and Honey. I have not studied the WMM in any profoundness but my recollection is that Anu is in fact described as one of the 'lower beings' as he is not 'First Source' which I believe is equivalent to 'Logos'. That is to say that he is only the creator of the HMS which is (unfortunately) the whole material plane/universe (or more).
Be that as it may, there are many of us who find the material enlightening to some extent. If you ignored the 'mythical' bits about James' concept, can there be any harm in his discourses etc?

All the best,
Czymra

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Czymra

That was thorough yet again, Milk and Honey. I have not studied the WMM in any profoundness but my recollection is that Anu is in fact described as one of the 'lower beings' as he is not 'First Source' which I believe is equivalent to 'Logos'. That is to say that he is only the creator of the HMS which is (unfortunately) the whole material plane/universe (or more).
Be that as it may, there are many of us who find the material enlightening to some extent. If you ignored the 'mythical' bits about James' concept, can there be any harm in his discourses etc?

All the best,
Czymra

That's right Czymra. I was contrasting the difference between Anu who did not create the universe and the Logos who did. ie, The material planes were not created by Anu. Together, we have all densified the original template of the material planes. We are all responsible for that.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by efields

Yes some of the semantic arguments are ridiculous. They are akin to Seth Shostack stating the off worlders could not be coming here as the distances are too vast...sic Our knowledge of Reality is akin to pointing a finger at the moon and howling. We simply barely possess a rudimentary understanding of our reality. And many religious zealots are so full of themselves they quote whatever Book they choose to believe as reality.

Well i presented a few quotes and paraphrasings from the teachings of Jesus, Guatama and Krishna. I did so to compare them to the WM and amply illustrated the obvious cross pollination of concepts which James claims as brand new revelations from the WM.

Does that validate those concepts from the adepts? Or does it invalidate those same concepts in the WMM?

In your estimation, does quoting the older teachings make me "full of myself" and one of those "religious zealots" too?

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Actually, if you were to research the Interviews...Dr Neruda, exposed the NWO, the illuminati, the Inclunebula, the secret government - in detail...etc etc etc, eleven years ago...long before anyone was talking openly about it on the internet.

Prior to 1998 - and apart from James' new term " Inclunebula" - the details of the NWO, the Illuminati, the secret govt, the "aliens" etc had been exhaustively covered on the internet and in books and popular magazines for anyone inclined to the topic.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

He revealed the governments secret treaties with ETs, and the technology they were swapping for permission to "experiment" on humans...and many other things at risk to his own life.

if anything Dr Neruda was a whistleblower

Every man and his dog has revealed variants of these things. They differ only in the details. Some are true some aren't. Most are sanctioned 'whistleblowers' who are in no danger. They're 'singin' like boids' for their supper.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

he explains in detail, how what the PTB are doing in the form of a NWO...will, in fact, be used by "higher intelligence" to usher in a new age of equality for all.

Breathtaking naivete ENdJOY.

It has been wisely said that those who do not learn the lessons of history are bound to repeat them.

And also that if you want to know the future, look backwards first.

Do you recall those 'servants of humanity', the communists? Remember how, from the top down, they imposed a bloody people's revolution promised by the state to provide prosperity for all? And how, in the absence of a separation of powers, the blood never stopped flowing from the open wounds of teeming millions?

Do you recall the empty promises that to this day are unfulfilled? How the most gullible among that piteous people, filled with hope for the fulfillment of the promise, were betrayed by one dictator after another?

How the only security one could find in life was to either agree with the superior wisdom of every gov't policy or join the oppressors as a willing aparatchik of the psychopathic state?

Do you recall THE MOST INCREDULOUS hollow promise of the Communist Manifesto? I'd bet you don't. From memory, and paraphrased, it went something like this:

"When the state has got everything in place for the smooth functioning of the people's utopia (coz remember everyone must be made "equal") the state will OF IT"S OWN ACCORD relinquish the powers of state and dissolve. Basically, leave by the same door they walked through and let the people enjoy their "equality" unmolested by the state."

Can you believe the credulity of anyone who would fall for a promise like that? It's pretty hard to believe isn't it?

But then again it was only fodder for popular consumption never a sincere intention. And let's not forget either that there wouldn't have been a soul in a million who'd ever read 'the manifesto' so they had no opportunity to appraise the absurd promises it contained. If you were hard of heart, you could even say: "Serves them right". But it was simply imposed upon them by a minority of thugs who had no intention of keeping their promises.

Are you starting to get the picture yet of why singularly unique people with singularly unique perceptive powers and cosmic responsibilities are being pushed around the traps? If they are superior people. "resigned to the inevitable" then they must know the true nature and motives of the movers and shakers in this world? Guiless souls who've been living under a rock, people who don't know their history, might even totally trust them to honestly relay - from the Godhead of course- the true state of play past, present and future? Coz superior people with impeccable integrity are finally here to sort out this ball'o'wax and take the reigns of state from the well motivated PTB nto their capable, trustworthy hands?

Unbelievable.

ps.. i wish you'd remove James' quote box on the subject (leave his words intact) so i can reply to each paragraph.

[ENdJOY]

It could be, the reason you find nothing "new" or "original" in the work, is because you are not aware that the wingmakers, called "gods, shinning ones and Elohim" have been seeding culture in our planet for 11000 years....
Truth is eternal, it doesn't matter where, or who reveales it... it is still truth.

Question 13 -- You said 'The WingMakers have been communicating with humans for approximately 11,000 years'. Why is this material being released now? Is it related to the freedom of speech given to the individual via the Internet -- at last mankind can speak in freedom to all on the globe and totally bypass the lies, propaganda and deception fed to us by corrupt governments?

The Tributary Zones are being released now because within the next three generations of SECUs being born upon earth are the representatives that will discover the Grand Portal, and the WingMakers' mythology will be among the primary sensory data streams that catalyze their awakening.

The WingMakers observe a life-bearing planet via the same SBL technology I referred to earlier in your first two questions. Using this insight, we can determine with a high degree of accuracy when a species is prepared to receive its acceleration, and when this time occurs, Lyricus deploys a team of teachers to the planet.

Approximately 11,000 years ago, this team incarnated in physical, human bodies, and became earth's first teachers of the higher sciences, arts, and metaphysics. I will not go into any further detail at this time, but these initial members of Lyricus placed in the Genetic Mind of the human race the purpose of discovering the Grand Portal. This purpose is dimly understood by the human species at this time, but it will become clear in approximately fifty years.

more snips found in the website:

The WingMakers have been communicating with humans for approximately 11,000 years, preparing them for the discovery of the Grand Portal. They are quite capable of contacting people with or without an intervening technology. You will know them by the balance they exhibit between art, science, and philosophy, as well as emotions, mind, and soul. They are particularly focused on training and supporting individuals who are instrumental to the discovery of the Grand Portal.

Question 6

Dr. Neruda: "They have encoded the discovery of language, mathematics, music, and so forth into our genetic structures. As we evolve, certain forerunners of our species -- people like you and I -- activate a part of their DNA before the rest of us. These forerunners are able to retrieve this encoded information and share it with the species. In subsequent generations, this insight is transmitted, and pretty soon, the entire species encompasses this new information or skill.

second interview

[ENdJOY]

I keep telling M&H you assume a great deal... you see, I was around when Stitchen's books first came out, and when Chariots of the Gods was in first edition... and you had to go to "special" book store to find them...I got my copy of the Montauk Project, in a plain brown wrapper...from some obsure private printing press...LOL

so don't tell me what was on the internet...what was released in the Ancient Arrow book was not the first conspiracy theory being exposed... but it sure put them all in the same basket with some credibility.

IMO you are just parroting things you have read...assuming everything falls into the same bin... and that is your loss.

[ENdJOY]

Frank Samuel, If you want to know more about James, he has another interview, with Mark Hemple, and in the third part he tells about his life and how he came in contact with the Wingmakers...

He relates that he had his first dream about the WMs when he was 5 and then again when he was 11 he had some more dreams:

10:09 James: There is always a seed vision for this type of work. The seed was given to me through the dream state and it was my intuitive awakening to this seed that began to bring it forward into my life. It was not like some angelic being sat at the foot of my bed and dictated this vision to me, or pronounced me as one of the chosen few, or that it was clear to me in the span of a single moment or even day.

It was the simple and gradual awakening to the vision and why I had come to this planet within the human instrument. Some artists refer to this muse as the means through which they gain their inspiration or access their vision—artistic vision, and from my perspective the muse is one’s Higher Self or Presence, it is not an outside force.

If you would like to investigate it more...
http://www.wingmakers.com/downloads/..._Session_3.pdf

the complete interview, which was recorded April of this year, is found here
http://www.wingmakers.com/whats-new.html

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

It could be, the reason you find nothing "new" or "original" in the work, is because you are not aware that the wingmakers, called "gods, shinning ones and Elohim" have been seeding culture in our planet for 11000 years....
Truth is eternal, it doesn't matter where, or who reveales it... it is still truth.

Truth is more eternal than James' story suggests. It does matter who reveals truth. It can be used in service to others or service to self. That is an axiom of truth and from James we are not just dealing with truth but a hotch potch of distortions as well.

For hundreds of thousands of years - and longer - the spiritual adepts have been working with humanity to help raise the consciousness of our race. 11000 years is only a thin slice of that endeavour. In fact Jesus has been intimate with this work long before he re-incarnated 2000 yrs ago in palestine. And ever since. For his (and other's) intercession throughout the ages, hundreds of thousands of souls have awakened to their true identity and perfect Union. Most have ascended to inner octaves (some of whom still serve us at inner levels) while far fewer have remained in physical embodiment, incognito for the most part, working to advance our knowledge of spirituality and science. These are the ones who, ages ago, came apart from the mass consciousness transferring the spiritual and scientific knowledge to their mountain retreats before the destructions came that wiped first Lemuria then Atlantis from the map of the world.

The wingmakers are not the Elohim.

The Elohim played a major role in the creation of the universe not Anu.

The Elohim are Cosmic Beings. They have nothing to do with Atlanteans claimed to live under the sea. We are the real Atlanteans who have re-incarnated again in North America and other lands. Our bones were buried beneath the Atlantic ocean around 11000 years ago when the last major isle - Poseid - sank beneath the waves in a sudden cataclysm. It was a karmic nemesis that had been brewing in the psyche of Atlanteans for centuries before it happened while they ate, drank and made merry. But not with God.

The Creators of the universe have no use for gold. Having such great knowledge the Elohim could simply precipitate gold if it were needed or conversely they could transmute base metals into gold. That would be childs play to beings with cosmic consciousness. But spiritual beings have no personal need for supplies of gold or any other physical element.

The seed of the christ-consciousness is responsible for every great idea there ever was or ever will be. This seed is in the mind. The christ-Mind is the origin and incubator for "every good and perfect gift" of life. It concieves of every scientific and metaphysical principle. It's genius imagines the use to which every truth principle can be directed for man's benefit.

To understand and prioritise the correct relationship between the seed of higher-Self and the genetic seed:

Christ-consciousness concieved and created the human genome. Consequently, we don't rely on the activation of genetic 'junk' or technical upgrades to attain christ-consciousness. It is accessable deep within our minds. We are still incarnate in the human form by virtue of (our karma and) our innate potential and mandate to realise the ever present Christ. Apparantly, for their own reasons of limitation and control, some group has spliced 'homo erectus' into the gene pool of the sons of God on Earth resulting in a lower form. Our job is to raise the vibration of form through the realisation of the inner-Christ, not realise the christ via DNA upgrades. Our genes have been proven adequate for the full mastery of christ-consciousness by hundreds of thousands of souls who have already attained Union with 'true identity'. The teachings of some of these are the real source of the truths found in James' work.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

I keep telling M&H you assume a great deal... you see, I was around when Stitchen's books first came out, and when Chariots of the Gods was in first edition... and you had to go to "special" book store to find them...

Not for long. They sold well and were easily procured if not ordered (like many mainstream books) from your local bookstore. So much more info appeared in the 80s and 90s that only a fool or a salesman would claim that James lifted the lid on the whole bowl of beans. I've watched it exponentially grow by the decade.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

so don't tell me what was on the internet...what was released in the Ancient Arrow book was not the first conspiracy theory being exposed... but it sure put them all in the same basket with some credibility.

The internet has likewise grown all information exponentially not only the conspiracy fare. James' material was just one more schpiel among so many others. Some of the names and details differed as most other sources did with each other but I don't see how the WMM added credibility to an already incredible genre filled with snippets of truth, deliberate fibs, gross contradictions, feigned verifications, and phony whistleblowers most of which was hosted in the main by spooks. To suggest that James' 'confirmations' and additions to all this somehow bestow credibiliy on it is amusing at least.

You tried earlier to assert that James' contribution to the conspiracy field somehow distinguished him personally and uniquely as a man of singular prescience and that this view you have of James proves his bona fides to the world as a credible and reliable source. Perhaps you're too easily impressed with his own assertions regarding himself and prefer your belief in his self- appointed 'credibiliy' rather than confronting the glaring problems with the material which strongly hint at James' true character and motive as a herald for the NWO.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

IMO you are just parroting things you have read...assuming everything falls into the same bin... and that is your loss.

No, i think i've proven James a parrot... They parrot and don't credit their sources either. Taken as a whole the WMM is in a bin of it's own.

Couldn't resist

[Czymra]

It's 'Spiel' not 'schpiel' by the way.
Ah sorry, ze German is coming through.

Don't you think that at least bits are enlightening if not at least interesting? Do you discern another part of the NWO Agenda from it at least?

[Czymra]

Christ-consciousness concieved and created the human genome. Consequently, we don't rely on the activation of genetic 'junk' or technical upgrades to attain christ-consciousness. It is accessable deep within our minds. We are still incarnate in the human form by virtue of (our karma and) our innate potential and mandate to realise the ever present Christ. Apparantly, for their own reasons of limitation and control, some group has spliced 'homo erectus' into the gene pool of the sons of God on Earth resulting in a lower form. Our job is to raise the vibration of form through the realisation of the inner-Christ, not realise the christ via DNA upgrades. Our genes have been proven adequate for the full mastery of christ-consciousness by hundreds of thousands of souls who have already attained Union with 'true identity'. The teachings of some of these are the real source of the truths found in James' work.

Just so I get the whole picture:
Are you talking of Gene Manipulation as mentioned by James or are you referring to the activation of sleeping DNA as referred to by Gregg Braden?

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Czymra

It's 'Spiel' not 'schpiel' by the way.
Ah sorry, ze German is coming through.

I know it's 'spiel', i'm just adding the'sch' as one might add it to "schmingmakers".

The prefix "sch" implies dishonesty, falseness or irrelavence.

If you thought terrorists were fake you might say "terrorist schmerrorist". Capisce?

Originally Posted by Czymra

Don't you think at least bits are enlightening if not at least interesting?

Yes i do think 'bits' are enlightening. They're the bits that are true which James has lifted without acknowledgent (except to discredt) from other reliable sources. I also find some of his commentary on the true bits enlightening because he has likewise reproduced it from previous commentary by people who are enlightened. James paraphrases them to give the impression that he too is enlightened rather than widely read.

For example (and to paraphrase): "You will know the Sovereign Integral when it appears to your conscious awareness. There is nothing else like it and you will know it. It may happen to you sitting on the couch, reading a book, enjoying the scenery, but when it comes you will undoubtedly know it."

And he talks about the muse which inspires art and science as being "the higher-Self or Presence which is inside oneself, not outside"

Or, "they (the wingmakers) are particularly focussed on training and supporting individuals who are instrumental to the discovery of the Grand Portal." (which in truth is within)

The true and false gurus have always said the same things. One comes from a place of knowledge and sincerity, the other from parroting and insincerity.

Originally Posted by Czymra

Do you discern another part of the NWO agenda from it at least?

Yes i do. In my comparison with communism i indicated the similarities between what James and ENdJOY are promising about the backers and plans of the NWO (and the "wingmakers" false and misleading representations regarding it's ultimate necessity as a phase in securing our freedom) and that previous disaster precipitated by the malice of the same NWO crowd. They brought us revolution, war, depression and more war and we're supposed to trust them?

If you will cut and paste James NWO comments here i will expose in more detail his sympathy for the NWO (personnel and agenda) and his flawed logic.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Czymra

Just so I get the whole picture:
Are you talking of Gene Manipulation as mentioned by James or are you referring to the activation of sleeping DNA as referred to by Gregg Braden?

Our DNA is not sleeping so there is no need for an activation of 'sleeping' DNA to unfold our genius. Our full potential can be realised in the 'genie' of the christ- Mind.... our 'true identity'.

The genetic code of the human race has been manipulated. The body of perfected man - christed man - has been alloyed with genetic material from homo erectus hundreds of thousands of years ago. In the distant past, Sons of God have sojourned on this planet in the uncorrupted state wearing bodies which carried the christic genetic code. They were beguiled to fall into a lower state of consciousness which made possible the theft and misuse of their genes. The familiar body of man is one result of that tampering.