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Old 10-31-2009, 01:52 AM   #26
m1*
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Default Re: The Bible question

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Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
this is quite a turn off as i don't think avalon is about discussing religious dogma. i agree w zeddo, as m1, you are turning avalon into your own personal journal. how many posts are all about you and your beliefs. and if anyone disagrees you attack them.

this is not what avalon is for. take your religion and bible to a church or fundamentalist forum.
Dolphin, you are being very unfair.
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:54 AM   #27
Ross H
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Default Re: The Bible question

Hello all,

Please play nice, this is not a Forum for argument, It is a Forum for discussion, a Forum for expressing one's opinion in a respectful, healthy manner.

Please, no personal attacks.

Thank you

Peace always.

Ross. (jross)

Last edited by Ross H; 10-31-2009 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:08 AM   #28
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xxx
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:12 AM   #29
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Default Re: The Bible question

Here is another way to look at the bible, and life in general.
When you have two ii s , you can't C. CHRST







Last edited by 777 The Great Work; 10-31-2009 at 02:18 AM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:27 AM   #30
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Default Re: The Bible question

Wrong forum.

Here is a good one for you guys: http://bibleforums.org/forum/index.php

and here: http://www.openbibleforum.org/forums/index.php?act=home

and here: http://biblescholarsforums.com/

Namaste, Steven
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:31 AM   #31
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Default Re: The Bible question

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Wrong forum.

Here is a good one for you guys: http://bibleforums.org/forum/index.php

and here: http://www.openbibleforum.org/forums/index.php?act=home

and here: http://biblescholarsforums.com/

Namaste, Steven
Project Avalon and Project Camelot is a forum of open minded people who take all things into account.

It is not productive to choose for other people which source of information is useful and which isn't.

I am not on Project Camelot to preach what I believe. Nor is anyone else responding to this thread. I came here with the sole intention of finding people who are aware of the way the world works and the problems in the world.

It is unfortunate that the Bible cannot be mentioned without some people almost convulsing, but nevertheless, there's no harm in people expressing their opinions.

I have an idea for those who do not want to participate in this thread.

Don't click on it again. Problem solved.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:53 AM   #32
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Hello all...........

Just a note to say that there are many paths to know Divine Creator....and as long as one reaches for kindness & views life as sacred............it truly doesn't matter which path.

It is interesting to note that the Essenes & Cathars had secret esoteric knowledge which has left them open to attack as they knew how to activate the christed consciousness.............a right that is every human beings priviledge...........

In my opinion, all humanity should embrace all knowledge that helps humanity and to seek out our strengths and goodness, no matter which path or tradition they hail.............

Namaste all !!!

In Light!
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Old 10-31-2009, 03:43 AM   #33
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Default Re: The Bible question

Can we not disagree...without being disagreeable? I never cease to be amazed at how touchy supposedly enlightened and spiritually advanced people can be. That goes for me as well. Perhaps it's because we are in a spiritual war. But we should still be open to contrary views and agendas. This forum is an international philosophical potpourri...and a philosophical food-for-thought fight. Well here's a video to stir up the hornet's nest just a little bit more!

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Old 10-31-2009, 03:48 AM   #34
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What do you think of Bible?

I think much of the bible is based from texts from other ancient races and simply compiled from these ancient scriptures, if it teaches one thing it is that god writes on large stone slabs, just like Sumerians and not paper and parchment. It also has changed throughout the years, if you read from a 14th century bible it is extremely different from the ones we read today, yet not many people know this, simply because not many people have access to that kind of archive.

Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?

Any person freaks out when their religion is attacked or felt the need to defend, this is human nature to protect what you hold close, one of our greatest gifts is our passion, yet it is also our one of our weaknesses.
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
We attack what we do not understand and unfortunately the 10 percent that have read it most of those do not understand it, or people take the bible literally instead of symbolically

Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?

Not unless they research the books history and have a decent education regarding theology and religion, in which case they should have read the bible anyway as you would read the book you research or you have no business talking about it.

Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?

To many Christians and in this day and age, especially in the USA the church has become a enterprise that is involved with incredible amounts of money, and if you agree with it or not people want to believe, this is not a bad thing, but do they understand what they are believing in.

Why people connect Bible with religion?

People have been conditioned to connect with this book, with religion, it mentions constructs like Jesus and it talks about god, and the beginnings of human existence.

Why people avoid often to even talking of Bible?

The Bible is a touchy subject and the rules stand true never discusses religion or politics. And as i stated there are many people that love to talk of the bible that have never actually turned the page.

Why Bible is the most translated, read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted, burned and forbidden?

The bible is a controversial book indeed, and any Christian worth their salt will admit there are factual errors in the bible, and words get mistranslated ‘especially the Greek version’ that was still approved, but Christianity is one of the largest religions in the world if not the largest, yet was not always or ever has been a beloved religion, to many discrepancies have pushed people away and the contractions that are found can be staggering, also the bible itself especially the King James bible a man who basically rewrote the bible as he saw fit, as a very cruel and deceptive man.

The bible itself was censored back in the ancient land there are many stories that never made the cut, just as I write a book I have a editor that keeps bits and loses parts of the story that might not fit into the publishing house ideal or vision of the end result so did the bible, and I have some examples.
The Life of Adam and Eve

The Book of Jubilees: This obscure Hebrew text offers an answer to a question that has vexed Christians for centuries if Adam and Eve only had sons, and if no other humans existed, who gave birth to humanity? This text reveals that Adam and Eve had nine children and that Cain's younger sister Awan became his wife. The idea that humanity was born of incest would have been radical and heretical.

The Book of Enoch: This scripture reads like a modern day action film, telling of fallen angels, bloodthirsty giants, an earth that had become home to an increasingly flawed humanity and a divine judgment to be rendered though denied a place in most Western Bibles; it has been used for centuries by Ethiopian Christians. Large portions of this book were found as part of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The Infancy Gospel of Thomas: The only book that deals with young Jesus, it indicates that Jesus was a strong-willed child who one historian describes as "Dennis the Menace as God." The book reveals that at age five, Jesus may have killed a boy by pushing push him off a roof and then resurrected him. Perhaps too disturbing for inclusion in the Bible, this book seems to contain traditions, also known to the Koran.

The Gospel of Nicodemus: This is the story of Jesus’ trial and execution and his descent into hell. According to this gospel the Savior asserts his power over Satan by freeing patriarchs such as Adam, Isaiah and Abraham from Hell.

The Apocalypse of Peter: Peter's apocalypse suggests that there is a way out of punishment for evildoers and implies that the threat of the Apocalypse is a way for God to scare people into living a moral life, and committing fewer sins.

Translation is a matter that is more relevant in other questions further along.

Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?

Again the Bible is a powerful book love it or hate it, it’s legacy has been set in stone and unless something extremely miraculous happened I do not expect people to turn from it, after all I have a friend that when I talk about ET’s he says it’s the devils work trying to distract us from the word. I believe the opposite, and I mean no offense by that, I simply believe religion is the distraction, but this is only my opinion and not to be taken to heart or as cannon, as ultimately I know nothing, and shall die like every man and face the truth with an open heart and mind.

Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
That question could be posed with a counter question, why the Muslims, the Moore’s and Saracens were brutally hunted down and murdered for possessing the Koran, to answer my question

Because it was deemed Gods will at that time before the reformation Christians had no direction and they interperated the bible literally just as the grand inquisitors did;

John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

yet the Muslim religion is a paradoxical version of the bible, the same prophets the same stories, just in different parts, yet we were told to kill as many of these heathens as humanly possible in the name of god, not very Christian is it? Or is it?

Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?

People have said the Freemasons wrote the bible they say the Roman Catholics wrote the bible, and specifically the Vatican, Pope Leo X had confessed in the early sixteenth century that "It has served us well, this myth of Christ” and he got very upset and condemned the modern world for catching on so to speak, and let us remember the translation of 1380 by John Wycliffe he loved the bible, and hated the organized church, and thus translated it out of Latin into English manuscripts, the Pope was so outraged out Wycliffe’s blasphemy he ordered his bones dug up crushed into powder and scattered into a river.

In the 1490s , Thomas Linacre, learned Greek so that he could translate the New testament, unfortunately Latin had become so corrupt that many of the ancient scripter’s were so difficult to translate and understand, it no longer preserved the message of the gospel, However the Vatican still maintained anybody who translated the scriptures to any other language other than Latin be put to death, the never intended that you read the bible, but Henry the 7th and 8th decided otherwise, as Christian kings.

I could go on but I shall move on to interpretation, the quest for Jesus always has ended in sorrow and hardship for those who go to the motherland and search for his history as barring the bible and Koran, he has none, he was written into history, this is unfortunate but no other evidence proves otherwise, that is the history, it does not make it fact, but when you look at the roman catholic religion and the Jesuits you understand the symbolism of the bible, Jesus was the Son meaning Sun in the sky, its an astrological book and the astrology adds up and makes sense, Jordan Maxwell can place into better words than I so I suggest you have a look at what he has to say and draw your own conclusions as to what you think about it.

I wish to thank Beren for making this post EXTREMELY enjoyable as when I am calm and collected I love discussing this, and one last note this is just my opinion and not to be taken as cannon, just with a pinch of salt.
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Old 10-31-2009, 03:57 AM   #35
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I must say I agree with M1 this is an important subject in avalon, lets say for the sake of argument that declsification happens and Ets present themselves to the world, their will be many people who will question their faith, and for some of us who know a small amount of information on this matter it is up to us to help our fellow people,
no matter what religion or faith to adjust and perhaps find a way to show that the two can co exist, just because the bible tells us of this planet and this earth, that is not to say their is simply one bible, and to be honest it only tells us of one land,
and if people do not like the posts we do not have to comment right? their are plenty of issues, and things to do and read in Avalon, but as this is Avalon we must remain in harmony and remember that this place was created for the good of the people and place to come together as a church and to teach not preach truth.
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Old 10-31-2009, 04:03 AM   #36
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It is not the delivery of the message that is important.

We should look at the heart of the message and head that.

If the heart of the message doesn't ring true with our thought adjuster (inner voice) then we should not let it guide us. See through the words no mater what source to the underpinning meaning. Think hard if the meaning doesn't jump out at you.

The Bible is one source of wisdom. Some things apply to our current situation and some do not. Draw from what ever source of wisdom presents itself. Do not idolise the source. The source is there to help us not rule us or be put up on an ivory tower to leave its meaning behind.

Last edited by Initiate; 10-31-2009 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 04:14 AM   #37
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Default Re: The Bible question

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1* View Post
...Project Avalon and Project Camelot is a forum of open minded people who take all things into account...
I'm sorry m1*. I have been harsh and I should have done it otherwise. Of course you can come up with your opinion on this subject, it is fine. But I still think it is the wrong place to discuss this kind of topic. It will simply attract confrontations. That is why I think it is better to discuss it where you will find like minded people about it.

At this very time in our evolution, we need to unite. All humanity need more than ever to unite. And their is no book, especially the bible, which as the power to unite all the people on Earth. Nor beliefs.

Personally, I am very close to Christ. I have always been. But there is a place in my heart to accept other faiths. My faith is not universal and this is not what will unite us all.

The reason many people like me, are reluctant to the bible is because it is the tool of the churches. The institutional churches. And the one who withhold the largest part of the genuine books in this library (bible means library) is the catholic church. Precisely, the Jesuits, the Franciscans and the Dominicans. Since the roman empire adopted Christianity as state religion under Constantin, the genuine manuscripts were locked in the Vatican and re-translated to be applied by the clergy.

Since that time, we have over 50 different versions of the bible, some very different from the others. Just take Mary as example, was she virgin or not? Who is the father of Jesus, Joseph? Archangel Gabriel? or the holy spirit? So many confusion was raised from these versions and manipulation. If there was one true genuine bible, I would be the one still reading it today. So which one is the true one? What should we trust in it? It has become the tool of the manipulators over the centuries...

I don't say there is no truth in it. I say it has been corrupted. Just like all tools the official stream system is throwing at us. Question everything, especially what comes from the main stream ideology, be it history, science, religion, politic, economy or spirituality.

Take care and Namaste, Steven
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Old 10-31-2009, 04:50 AM   #38
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if you want a very interesting commentary on the bible, god, and religion, this piece is done very well and they've done their research. you will be amazed how similar all religions are and where their origins come from. the first third of the movie (video) covers these topics. he is also involved in project venus

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:42 AM   #39
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Far out, now I am posting hate comments !!!

As they say in the classics, F*#k this for a game of tin soldiers.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:17 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Initiate View Post
It is not the delivery of the message that is important.

We should look at the heart of the message and head that.

If the heart of the message doesn't ring true with our thought adjuster (inner voice) then we should not let it guide us. See through the words no mater what source to the underpinning meaning. Think hard if the meaning doesn't jump out at you.
I would have to agree entirely with "If the heart of the message doesn't ring true with our thought adjuster (inner voice) then we should not let it guide us.". I read the Bible for many years before it "rang true". It's a very long book, and there are many things which I didn't understand the first time around. It's not a book I've read from cover to cover like a novel, but it is a book which I have cross examined and cross referenced, and I can honestly say through many years of diligent reading - it rings true to me. However, I am more than willing to divulge that I am STILL learning from it, and I still don't understand everything. I am sure I will reach the end of my life and still be reading and then thinking: *snap* "Oooooooh"...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiate View Post

The Bible is one source of wisdom. Some things apply to our current situation and some do not. Draw from what ever source of wisdom presents itself. Do not idolise the source. The source is there to help us not rule us or be put up on an ivory tower to leave its meaning behind.
I believe that the source of all wisdom is God. God provided us with the Bible to help us get through this life and conduct ourselves according to that wisdom. I am utterly sure there's a whole heap of things to reality that's not even in the Bible. Of course. Nevertheless, the Bible contains more than enough foundations and examples for us to learn from and apply it to our lives for the betterment of ourselves and all those around us.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:22 AM   #41
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Zeddo, do not be angry of my reply to you. It was straight forward telling you that no one has the right to confiscate this forum for their own wishes .

True M1 has a tough attitude but he is not insulting anyone.

But he is actually has a good point and that is -look through veil of deception of religion.

I know and understand that you were hurt and misused by your own church , I have been too.
But you can not blame God and Bible for that. It is the people who did that to you and me and M1. THEY hijacked Bible telling people their own sermons and occasionally telling them some verses from Bible but actually telling THEIR teaching or their ORGANIZATION teachings and in that very time YELLIN that this is THE BIBLE talking!!!

Bible is saying actually that we should not follow men because when the blind leads the blind ,both will fall in hole.

Do not connect Bible with religion and God and Jesus with wicked deeds of humanity.
God gave us a free will and look what we did with it! We messed up badly and now we whine how it is not our fault why we screwed all ...IT IS GOD who is to be blamed.

HOw would you react when you left your home for work and when returned you find it burned and destroyed by your children? And when you ask them why they did it -they reply that It is your fault for everything!

Zedo, you are very wellcome to say your opinion here on this thread but ,please friend, be above the patterns that drove you in your state of rage. I understand it and I am on your side since we have been used by religions and terribly lied about all regarding Bible and what it means being true Christian.

If I did follow my rage towards religions and would be a waste case now... We are so much above that my friend...
ANd THEY , I mean churches and all religions will pay the price for their age of blood shed in the name of God.
In revelation you find that God judges Babylon the great as mother of all harlots who deceived whole world and on her was found blood of all saints ,from Abel to present day us.


We have to defeat our own fears regarding the Bible, we have o give it a chance to reveal us the truth . We have to fight whenever reading it and when thoughts and coded religious dogma comes in mind, because it is blurring our view of the message written there.

Love and blessings,

beren
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:44 AM   #42
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Default Re: The Bible question

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Originally Posted by Steven View Post
I'm sorry m1*. I have been harsh and I should have done it otherwise. Of course you can come up with your opinion on this subject, it is fine. But I still think it is the wrong place to discuss this kind of topic. It will simply attract confrontations. That is why I think it is better to discuss it where you will find like minded people about it.

At this very time in our evolution, we need to unite. All humanity need more than ever to unite. And their is no book, especially the bible, which as the power to unite all the people on Earth. Nor beliefs.

Personally, I am very close to Christ. I have always been. But there is a place in my heart to accept other faiths. My faith is not universal and this is not what will unite us all.

The reason many people like me, are reluctant to the bible is because it is the tool of the churches. The institutional churches. And the one who withhold the largest part of the genuine books in this library (bible means library) is the catholic church. Precisely, the Jesuits, the Franciscans and the Dominicans. Since the roman empire adopted Christianity as state religion under Constantin, the genuine manuscripts were locked in the Vatican and re-translated to be applied by the clergy.

Since that time, we have over 50 different versions of the bible, some very different from the others. Just take Mary as example, was she virgin or not? Who is the father of Jesus, Joseph? Archangel Gabriel? or the holy spirit? So many confusion was raised from these versions and manipulation. If there was one true genuine bible, I would be the one still reading it today. So which one is the true one? What should we trust in it? It has become the tool of the manipulators over the centuries...

I don't say there is no truth in it. I say it has been corrupted. Just like all tools the official stream system is throwing at us. Question everything, especially what comes from the main stream ideology, be it history, science, religion, politic, economy or spirituality.

Take care and Namaste, Steven

Steven , I like your reply. but see the previous comment addressed to Zeddo regarding connecting religions with Bible.

Yes they are using it as tool but in the sense of magical. How , well they desing it nicely ,put it in the special places in their churches, they do art work on Bile pages and hold it in their hand and preaching other stuff...

But actually todays "corrupted" Bible as many claim heavily, very heavily condemns all practises of churches and all deceptions in the world. Heavily.
That is why you have to re read it again and again and again. Think of this;
they came to conclusion that masses may posses Bibles in their homes but actually they do not read them SO whatever we (meaning church leaders) tell them, they will believe as it was spoken from the mouth of prophet himself.

I tried to talk with one priest ,high priest here in Serbia 10 years ago, and after I said: " well I do not find that in Bible ,the things you just said to me...!
He screamed on me saying:" How dare you? You just crawled from your egg shell yesterday and dare to question me? ME who is studying for over 30 years? How dare you you little ignorant...(I was 17 then)... His whole world of clergy and beong a high priest in Ortodox chruch was shaken by 17 year old young man asking him a question from Bible...
He knew then in his heart that the very Bible whom he claims to study is condemning him-badly!


Again , when talking about Bible ,I am not talking about religions or and particular Christian denomination. And still people think that .
It is because it is deeply inbedded in them the religious concept of believing in God.

Religion is a trick , a veil a blur view.
Why shoud I believe tricks or look through the veil when I can directly ask God and Jesus through prayer?
Why would I need second hand things when I can get them directly at the source?
Religious men and clergy and churches and all other worldlyy religions are nothing but LEECHES on the souls of humanity, using the natural born desire of man for spiritual closeness towards Creator.

Knowing God have nothing to do with being religious. How can I explain this better than knowing the most important person in your entire life-the ultimate VIP.

I do not need inbetween people to know that most important person in the universe, when that person wish to meet me over his word!
One day when I grow up spiritualy and in all other matters and be perfect I could then actually stand before God and talk with him as we are talking now.

Until then I will lean on him and his spirit to guide me and help me grow up and learn that beautiful language of love, the only language with we can talk with Creator and his son Jesus Christ.

Love and blessings,

Beren
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:03 AM   #43
beren
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Quote:
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What do you think of Bible?


I wish to thank Beren for making this post EXTREMELY enjoyable as when I am calm and collected I love discussing this, and one last note this is just my opinion and not to be taken as cannon, just with a pinch of salt.

You are welcome friend!

I have read your posts on other threads and think that your are fighting your own battle heavily... I want assure you that if you wish honestly and with open heart to find the truth-then God will help you find it.
Often in the most hard-to-imagine ways ...


I have to tell you this experience of mine a lot of years ago.
I was on the crack point of really do I have to believe in the word of God or not and there was this woman who was an acuitance of my unckle. In that point of my life I trusted that woman wholeheartedly because she was honest and did experience some weird stuff ,very similar as you were writing in your posts.

Also she was dealing with sprirtism and was involved in heavy stuff then.
Nevetheless I trusted her and in that time was getting to know Bible.
Then I aske her a straight forward question: " Is this all true and has some validity?"
Shge looked at me, heavily sighed and breathing heavily...it lasted for some minutes and finally she said with tought time on her face -YES---
BUT!!! BUT!!! That was not all! Then she told me yes, but you better do not be involved in that since it is very heavy and hard....

Later I realised that she was tarot reader and horoscope practicioner and spiritist..BUT in the very moment when she was confronted with life and death question which could ruin or lift one souls---she was forced to tell the truth!!! Though she immidiatelly throw a lot of things on me and a lot of brakes not to explore Bible, she in that moment HAD to tell the truth.

Last 10 years we do not see eachother but she sunk deeper in trouble with entities and demons...she is still practising tarot and horoscopes.

The point is , that every person has to know the truth...What will they do with that fact -it is up to them...
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:05 AM   #44
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...Again , when talking about Bible ,I am not talking about religions or and particular Christian denomination. And still people think that .It is because it is deeply inbedded in them the religious concept of believing in God...
Well, if you want to avoid talking about religion when talking about the bible, you have to pick up your assembly one by one. You also have to choose well your ideas and theme. Ultimately, if you want to talk about the bible without referring to religion, or christian denomination in particular, you still have to pick up one bible for reference, which one is yours?

Mine is the TOB. And I am sure, we will find many huge differences between whatever yours is and mine. So there goes the confusion. Thus, you can not talk seriously about the bible outside a religious dogma.

Take the dead sea scrolls for example. Which bible have "update" its status since this absolutely outstanding discovery? None! To me, it is not about the word of God, (I even avoid using God as name anymore, I prefer using Creation, since it is what I see as true and practicable) it is all about religious dogma. Why the bible is not written anymore if its the word of God, God has stop talking to us?

Anyway, I could go filling up three pages of arguments on this issue. You got to realize it is the tool of a belief system corrupted to direct the readers on sins and victim consciousness. In this regard, Jesus is not a savior, nor a lord, but a brother with a mission to assist our awakening, nothing more nothing less... The only thing which deserve our worship is Creation itself, that is what Jesus was telling us, where is it in the bible today? He also came to educates us about the Universal of consciousness shaping our realities. It is still in the gospel, but very fragmented, someone not aware of this can hardly see it.

Namaste, Steven

Last edited by Steven; 10-31-2009 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:19 AM   #45
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Default Re: The Bible question

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Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
this is quite a turn off as i don't think avalon is about discussing religious dogma. i agree w zeddo, as m1, you are turning avalon into your own personal journal. how many posts are all about you and your beliefs. and if anyone disagrees you attack them.

this is not what avalon is for. take your religion and bible to a church or fundamentalist forum.
Well said


m1* You say your not religious but you always talk about religion
I wasn't surprised when I read that you join a forum and quickly people turn against you and you are kicked/banned. Maybe you should stand back and have a look at your image. You have been here 20 days and added 166 posts.
Please chill out ffs

Back on topic
I my opinion the bible is a pack of lies put in place to control people. I feel sorry for anyone that follows it without question.
For the record I have never read it or nor will I

Last edited by Swanny; 10-31-2009 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:29 AM   #46
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I'm sorry m1*. I have been harsh and I should have done it otherwise. Of course you can come up with your opinion on this subject, it is fine. But I still think it is the wrong place to discuss this kind of topic. It will simply attract confrontations. That is why I think it is better to discuss it where you will find like minded people about it.
I don't agree. I don't see why it is necessary to have confrontations in the first place. Most confrontations ferment out of ignorance. I am more than willing to discuss anything at all. I am not here to discuss ONLY the Bible. There's a whole lot to life, existence and reality that I sincerely want to discuss. Nevertheless, part of what I say might very well be sourced from the Bible and I think it would only be prudent for others to allow me to give my views, rather than saying: "Oh NOES - HE SAID BIBLE! OH NOOOOES!". Because I do genuinely believe that I have some useful views to offer -- primarily because of my research of the Bible.

I think that all people should be respected and their views should be considered, no matter what they say or where they get their information from. Of course, conditionally, depending on whether or not the person is being sincere and mature, rather than hateful and arrogant. I could go and get posts from at least 1/2 a dozen people who've brought religion up in my topics (out of the blue) and became pretty hateful and angry, when the thread I made wasn't even ABOUT religion. They simply projected their hate for religion and the Bible onto me, and then the topic took a religious debate tangent (which looked as if I was arguing over, when I was just trying to get everyone to quit it), by explaining that I am not religious and I am not here trying to convert anyone so there's no need to get all upset upon the mention of the Bible or Jesus.

The only real thread I've posted about "Jesus" was merely a dream I wanted to document. Funnily enough, it is SINCE I made that post more and more people have been pulling my responses and threads into a religious debates. It's as if people are sitting there thinking: "Oh here's a post by Jesus Boy, I am going to let HIM know what I THINK if his stupid evil RELIGION". I could go and get at least 1/2 a dozen of THOSE comments right now! It's actually amazing I haven't lost the plot yet, but I've remained as calm as I could. More and more people can't help themselves but to give me a jab in the ribs (about religion) as they pass me on the forums (Since I made the Jesus is Lord post). I am just doing my very best to let each person know that it's not necessary. I'm not here to convert anyone. I simply mention the Bible because I have found a LOT of useful and "relative" information which applies to and explains todays' world, quite well.

The only time I mention the Bible or Jesus is if there's something about that book which demonstrates what I believe or why I believe something. The POINT isn't to recite Bible verses (ie: To preach "religion" as I have been accused). If I am posting, I am genuinely trying to respond to the topic. Most of the time there's no need to even mention the Bible -- so I don't. However, on occasion, I might recall that the Bible says something on a subject, and therefore I'll explain. It would be nice to be able to do that without being saying: "Oh NOES - HE SAID BIBLE! OH NOOOOES!", "This is NOT the place for your HATEFUL religion!". It's actually quite ignorant and really unfair.

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At this very time in our evolution, we need to unite. All humanity need more than ever to unite. And their is no book, especially the bible, which as the power to unite all the people on Earth. Nor beliefs.
I do agree that we need to unite. And rest assured, from my understanding of the Bible (and I have a reasonably good understanding), I would have no problem uniting with any culture or people on earth. There are SOME people on earth (who read the Bible) who are not bigoted and hateful. I like to think that I am one of them (or at least, I do try). I think all people can be bigoted and hateful at times - regardless of whether they know the Bible or not. The reason not all "bible readers" are bigoted and hateful is because they read and "understand" the context and intent of the Bible (out of sincerity), as opposed to using the Bible to underline their religion and fill their coffers. There's a really big difference there.

I would have to state (quite emphatically) that if everyone on earth understood the principles of love, set out in the Bible, we would all be united over night. I can't be more emphatic about that. And that's "NOT" because everyone would have to "convert" to a religion. The Bible asks "NO ONE" to convert to ANY religion. As a matter of fact, Jesus often spoke out about religion and pious religious people. He said that there are only two great commandments: 1). Love the Father with all your heart 2). Love your brother with all your heart. Everything else falls under hose two principals (and I think NO one on this forum will disagree with that, unless of course, they do not recognize that there is a father - but from what I can see, most people use the term infinity or source, but it's the same thing). The rest of the Bible is just an extension of those two principals, providing examples in daily life.

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Personally, I am very close to Christ. I have always been. But there is a place in my heart to accept other faiths. My faith is not universal and this is not what will unite us all.
It all depends how you look at things. I don't accept "faiths" in that context. Like I said, I can't stand religion and if a "faith" has a dogma attached to it, I want no part of it (even as much as I am ignorantly accused of being religious). Nevertheless, from diligent study, I have concluded that the Bible is indeed the word of God. Some people like to use religious terms and take that religious jump and say that I have a "belief structurer" and that I have {{A}} faith. But I honestly don't believe that's true. I am simply a person who set out from a young age to find the truth behind things, and I learned a LOT from reading the Bible. It's not the only places I looked too. I was into everything when I was younger -- which probably has a great deal to do with the attacks I have suffered (which I have spoken about on this forum). I would argue that I am not a person with "A" faith, but I am a person "OF" faith. There's a pretty big difference. I think if people can understand at least that, then there would be no reason for people to jump on my back and pull the "Bible Thumper" down.

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The reason many people like me, are reluctant to the bible is because it is the tool of the churches. The institutional churches. And the one who withhold the largest part of the genuine books in this library (bible means library) is the catholic church. Precisely, the Jesuits, the Franciscans and the Dominicans. Since the roman empire adopted Christianity as state religion under Constantin, the genuine manuscripts were locked in the Vatican and re-translated to be applied by the clergy.
Well, there you go. We absolutely agree. All these churches, they are not serving God. They are religious organizations. They are pious and full of doctrine and dogma and belief structures. I am ESPECIALLY dismayed with cults and religions that provide books and pamphlets and have studies using those books and pamphlets, to teach people what THEY think the Bible "really" says. I couldn't agree with you MORE on this subject, and I wholeheartedly believe that the reason people can't stand the thought of reading the Bible is that they find (as someone else said on this forum which I found to be quite true), "Guilty by association". But I would urge those people to not look at those "religions"; instead go and open that book themselves and look at it from their own viewpoint. That's the way the Bible is SUPPOSED to be read. Yet no one does. They go to the Sunday club, pay some money and listen to someone telling them all about what the Bible says. That is not what the Bible is for.

The Bible doesn't tell people to go and make denominations and religions and to create wars over "religion". The Bible simply says this: Share the message with someone once. If they don't listen, bring two people back and re-explain. If they still don't listen, leave them be. Jesus didn't come to the earth screaming in the streets: "THE END IS NIGH: or "GOD HATES FAGS" (ie: Westboro Baptist Church).

When Jesus gave the sermon on the mount, he didn't clap his hands together at the end and say: "Ok folks, that's everything, now please go and put your money in the box under that tree over there". Jesus didn't have four walls and a steeple. He shared his message under trees and in the nature and in peoples homes - if they were kind enough to let him in. Jesus was not a religious person and didn't ask anyone to join any religion or participate in religious activities.

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Originally Posted by Steven View Post
Since that time, we have over 50 different versions of the bible, some very different from the others. Just take Mary as example, was she virgin or not? Who is the father of Jesus, Joseph? Archangel Gabriel? or the holy spirit? So many confusion was raised from these versions and manipulation. If there was one true genuine bible, I would be the one still reading it today. So which one is the true one? What should we trust in it? It has become the tool of the manipulators over the centuries...
I agree again, wholeheartedly. The King James version of the Bible was translated (DIRECTLY) from the ancient Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic texts. There are more and more Bibles popping up left right and center. They're all rewritten to suit the particular religion or denomination that rewrites them. However, I would simply urge people to stick to the KJV of the Bible. I do not believe that because man has tried to rewrite the Bible to suit himself, that the blame should rest on the Bible itself - or God. If people are sincere and genuine about understanding the Bible, they will do a little bit of research and try to find the version that is not "rewritten". I can save people that trouble by stating that the KJV is not -- and is therefore the most accurate direct translation from the ancient texts and has been in print for hundreds of years.

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Originally Posted by Steven View Post
I don't say there is no truth in it. I say it has been corrupted. Just like all tools the official stream system is throwing at us. Question everything, especially what comes from the main stream ideology, be it history, science, religion, politic, economy or spirituality.
I don't believe it has been corrupted. A lot of recent bibles have. But most importantly, the MESSAGE of the Bible has "through religion". That's where the REAL corruption lies. However, more and more religions (and cults) are rewriting certain verses to suit themselves. Look at the Mormons for example. They wrote a whole Bible 2.0 so to speak (ie: Joseph Smith). The Bible clearly states that no one should add to the words of the Bible. That's why all this so called literature and pamphlets and books by televangelists "Order now $29.95" - NONE of it is necessary. All people need is an accurate English translation of the Bible (ie: KJV), sit down and read it and learn what they can from it. This is what I have done. I never joined any religions. I don't claim to be a part of any denomination. I am simply a person who picked the book up and came to understand that the information inside is intelligent, wise, useful and valuable and I have applied those principals to my life in the best way I can. There's no reason why others couldn't do the same without going all "religious".

I will agree that there is huge problem in the world because of "religion", but that is because the human nature, by default, is not very sincere. Most people try to act all loving and pious, but deep down they're real intent is to glorify and serve themselves. We are egotistical beings who desire praise. However, if we can all just get past that and humble ourselves (as the Bible explains) and act as "children" and not arrogant know all's, we could really go a long way. But I think that a lot of people need to learn the difference between having "A" faith (ie: in a religion) or being a person"OF" faith (ie: simply applying Biblical principals in their lives) and treating each other with love, respect and compassion.

There really isn't any need for people to be getting all upset and angry over someone mentioning words from the Bible. It is really quite immature and pig headed to be frank. People should ONLY get upset with other people when they DO something that is hateful or nasty or wrong and PROVE themselves to be hateful or nasty. It is really unfair that in this world, which is fast becoming a world that anyone who merely MENTIONS the name "Jesus" is hammered into a corner RIGHT off the bat, without ever being given a chance to show their nature.

A lot of people on this forum so far have stated to me: "You're just attacking people because they don't believe as you do". Firstly, I never attack anyone so saying that is unfair. I am merely trying (in those threads) to diffuse the problem by informing the other person that they're jumping to conclusions and really don't know WHAT I believe, and therefore it's unnecessary to make references about how evil religion is - BECAUSE I AGREE! Secondly, my "responses" were due to the fact that I do not want people to have the wrong idea or opinion of me. My explanations were to explain THAT, not to argue "religion". But some people can be really one track minded with their projections. It is really unproductive to constantly project a disdain for religion on someone, just because they are "perceived" to be "religions" upon the mention of God, Jesus or The Bible. It is actually quite ignorant.

All in all, providing no one else jumps on my back and tries to twist my head off because I've mentioned God, Jesus or the Bible in my responses (which really isn't all that often, actually), there's no reason why there should EVER be a "debate" between me and anyone else on this forum. I know one thing for sure. I'm not looking for one. I certainly haven't instigated one or created a thread with the intention of causing a religious debate. Why? Because I'm NOT religious and I don't HAVE any "religion" to preach to anyone. Nevertheless, I have to insist that it is VERY unfair to attempt to cut me off or block off my opinion, if some people can't stand the Bible (because they perceive it to be guilty by association with religion), particularly if they've never actually spent any real time to understand the Book -- or understand what I actually DO think.

Last edited by m1*; 10-31-2009 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:45 AM   #47
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Default Re: The Bible question

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Well said


m1* You say your not religious but you always talk about religion
I wasn't surprised when I read that you join a forum and quickly people turn against you and you are kicked/banned. Maybe you should stand back and have a look at your image. You have been here 20 days and added 166 posts.
Please chill out ffs

Back on topic
I my opinion the bible is a pack of lies put in place to control people. I feel sorry for anyone that follows it without question.
For the record I have never read it or nor will I
Swanny, the problem is that from forum to forum, people (in general) can't stand anyone talking about Jesus or the Bible. I would have to argue that I have not spent a lot of time talking about religion here. The religions debates were injected into my threads and responses by other people. I then tried to explain that they have me all wrong, which made me LOOK as if I was always talking about religion. But in reality, I was just trying to STOP the discussion of religion - because I am not religious.

If people would stop trying to convince me how evil religion is (which I agree with), there would be no more talk about it. However, if someone goes out of their way to explain how evil religion is (and project that onto me) I really have no option but to try to explain that they have me all wrong so that I don't have to go through it time and time again. I'm over it - but I am just trying to be patient and let it settle into everyones heads.

I just want those people who have been so angry and hateful towards me to realize that there's no necessity to hammer me into a corner. I do not HAVE a "religion" to preach. And actually, your response shows that you have not read my other explanations yet. If you sincerely believe I am trying to inject "religion" into the forums (and that I need to stand back and have a look at my image), please go and have a look at my other responses on the topic. This is about the 12th time I've responded now, saying basically the same thing. Somehow, I've become the forum "Religious Boy" over the last couple of days (Probably due to the "Jesus is Lord" signature below all my posts), and I am merely trying to remove that sticker from my head - because it's attracting negativity.

I am persisting to explain to each person who calls me religious, that I am not, only because I value this forum and would like to be a part of it and get passed all these religious accusations and disdain by people. However, I believe that will pass, if I just explain to people why they don't need to get all upset about the fact that I have read, and still read, the Bible.

The reason I am spending so my effort to "explain" myself (which I also know and AGREE is starting to get old - believe me), is because I know what will happen if I do not. If I don't get it into people's heads that I am NOT here to preach "religion", I will NOT be able to make a single post without someone turning my threads into a religions debate. That will get REALLY old REALLY fast. However, I do believe that more and more people are seeing these responses and thinking: "Oh, well I misunderstood him. I see that there's no point bashing him with his own Bible because he's really not trying to do that to me, even though I thought that's what he might be doing at first glance".

I would like to find ONE place online where I can be "who i am" and say "my views" how I see them, without getting lynched for mentioning the Bible. I am only persisting here, because like I said: I value the forum and I believe that very soon, I will be able to resume participation in the topics, without people jumping on my back, like I was able to do when I first got here before a few people who hate religion saw my "Jesus is Lord" signature and felt as though they ahd to put me in my place.
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:09 PM   #48
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Default Re: The Bible question

Hello M1* and Beren. I invite you both to take a look at this thread.

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4343

It is about the "Handbooks for the New Paradigm" series received by George Green. This is from where all the "ground crew" concept originates as well as the first impulse to create Avalon forum.

You can read them for free online. It will certainly give you the base to follow many discussion here on Avalon. Not a must, you are free to discard, but it will certainly trigger some old memories...

Namaste, Steven
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:12 PM   #49
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Default Re: The Bible question

This is such a great opportunity for practicing turning the other cheek.
And where does the Qur'an, Vedas and other texts fit in?
If not this is a very ethnocentric discussion.
Ive always thought in the evolution vs. creation in schools debate that all schools that want to teach
creationism as science should include the creation stories of all cultures on the planet.
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:13 PM   #50
beren
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Default Re: The Bible question

I would add one more thing and that is condemning others when they say what they believe does not lead to anywhere.
I could go on a attack every other person here when they express their viewpoints and experiences and beliefs as sheer BS but I do not do that.
Because I wish to respect every person here and when I find blunt insults and labeling I simply can not tolerate stupidity.

Therefore anyone who on this or other threads is disrespectufl and bluntly arrogant related to other people beliefs will be automaticly report to Avalon moderators.
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