Gold prices in Europe

[_N_]

I have been doing a lot of reading and watching on youtube, the conclusion is that the price of gold will go up. Now, this is from the USA perspective, so will the gold actually go up or will the value of USD go down?

Secondly, I saw people saying, sure, spot price is 700-800 USD an ounce, but you need to pay more than that for physical. Well, here in EU, this is not the case, you go in and buy as much as you want at spot price.

So, it there really a shortage? As far as I can see, no, in Austria I can walk in, ask for a gold bar and get it on the spot at spot price.

Can people please comment on gold availability in their area and the price of physical gold? I'm a bit confused with what's going on. In recent weeks, countries have taken huge deliveries of physical gold, yet the price has stayed the same? - ok, it's artifically adjusted, but as far as I can see, there is no shortage.

[chitty]

Hard to find physical gold in Saskatchewan.

[davefla73]

Originally Posted by _N_

I have been doing a lot of reading and watching on youtube, the conclusion is that the price of gold will go up. Now, this is from the USA perspective, so will the gold actually go up or will the value of USD go down?

Secondly, I saw people saying, sure, spot price is 700-800 USD an ounce, but you need to pay more than that for physical. Well, here in EU, this is not the case, you go in and buy as much as you want at spot price.

So, it there really a shortage? As far as I can see, no, in Austria I can walk in, ask for a gold bar and get it on the spot at spot price.

Can people please comment on gold availability in their area and the price of physical gold? I'm a bit confused with what's going on. In recent weeks, countries have taken huge deliveries of physical gold, yet the price has stayed the same? - ok, it's artifically adjusted, but as far as I can see, there is no shortage.

well the $ is going down, Gold always seems to hold its value. but sense everyone is buying it up demand is going to make it, go up to.

[ALLUMINAS_PL]

I'm buying gold right now. Here in Poland there is no problem with buying it. But. When i first ask polish mint about buying it, the told me that for german gold (Heraeus) i must wait up to 4 weeks and for swiss mint up to 8 (it was in October. In last week on november they told me that for german gold the time doesnt change, but for the swiss it's at least 12 weeks. I took german and waiting for my bars. I must say that this is a roulette. When do dolar devaluation would be 10 to 1 so the gold would go up 1 to 10 in us currency. But what will happend with EURO or POUND, i can't say.

[_N_]

This is exactly what I'm thinking, it might drop against USD, but what about EUR?
Just as a hint to those in Europe, go to Vienna, Austrian Mint sells them, you ask for certain amount, pay in EUR and that's it, you get it straight away.

It is good to hear this feedback, I didn't know that the Swiss wait is so long, I know that in Slovenia - which buys from Austria or Swiss has a 2 week wait.

[Soulmate7]

Good point you're making, _N_. One way to find out is by checking the historical charts of gold Vs euro (first chart) compared to gold Vs dollar (4th chart) for the last 5 years.
http://www.usagold.com/gold-price-forex.html

I think it's clear that gold is gaining in value compared to all major paper-money-scam currencies.

As far as finding gold and silver at spot price in Europe, I wish I had your luck. I have to look overseas to grab whatever I can get my hands on at a reasonable price.

[gretsico]

seems like there's a little gold and plenty silver down here in australia.
same as europe, walk in buy for maybe 2-5%above spot price.

also, i'm curious. why the wait on swiss gold?? is it somehow better??
perth mint bullion is 99.99%
as far as i know thats about as good as you can get?...

[_N_]

Austrian Mint gets it's gold from Swiss, but it has no waiting time, just walk in and buy the bars. It's also 99.99% pure.
They say on their website: "The Austrian Mint has appointed the Swiss company, Argor-Heraeus SA, for the production of its ‘Good Delivery’ bars."

[ALLUMINAS_PL]

Originally Posted by _N_

Austrian Mint gets it's gold from Swiss, but it has no waiting time, just walk in and buy the bars. It's also 99.99% pure.
They say on their website: "The Austrian Mint has appointed the Swiss company, Argor-Heraeus SA, for the production of its ‘Good Delivery’ bars."

Hmm ... There are two things i'm wondering now.

1) You mention Argor - Haraeus SA as a Swiss Company, but my gold is from Haraeus - Germany (look here http://corporate.heraeus.com/en/berh...utHeraeus.aspx). The swiss mint i was talking was a PAMP mint Castel San Pietro in Switzerland.

2) When i look at gold prices there is a difference between prices graph. Look at the EURO and USD graph. USD gold price is going down, but EURO is at similar level. Why i mention that. Because i can buy gold by prices seen at London Gold Fixing or Comex, but both of them are in the USD. I can't buy gold by calculating the price in EURO.

[_N_]

That's a good point you mentioned, I'm always looking at prices in EUR and I hear things like gold has gone up 30 USD, yet, when you look at EUR, it's steady, so it actually means the USD went down. Now, the question, can we say that EUR is a stable currency, so instead of converting all your money into gold, might be better for anyone with USD to do a split of certain % to gold and other % to EUR?

[ENdJOY]

The prices of gold and silver, are just as easily manipulated as the Stock Market. Logic tells you that when there is a demand, and the supply is low, the prices go up...however, we are seeing just the opposite happen now - for no apparent reason.

Gold has alway gained in value as the USD declined...again, not now.

This is all a part of the PTB's plan to strip the common man of their buying power...and to assume total control of our lives.

It has been rumored that there will be a huge dip in gold prices soon...to encourage people to sell...that the market will be manipulate to rise for six months, to encourage more investment in it, and then they will pull the rug out from under the entire economy... and create a cashless society, that credits our National ID card with "money" according to how productive we are assessed at being. This system will allow them total control, having a record of where we spend every last dime...

Right now, gold is being paid for but not delivered...protect yourself from this kind of trap by only buying what you can walk away with... While the "spot" price for gold is in the $700's the actual price you will pay a dealer is almost double that...because it is in such demand and the supply is short.

If the price of gold does go lower, I recommend you take everything you have in savings and invest it in gold and silver...CDs, retirement (401K) and cash, because the USD IS going to fail...the global economy IS going to crash and gold and silver are the only thing between you and the chip....that and your garden.

believe it or not...you have been warned.

[Carmenz0267]

The prices will not go up they are up already!
People are investing in gold and real estate be cause they don't trust in the financial market anymore.
This trend was seen already months ago ...

[_N_]

Lately, I have been doing a lot of reading regarding the price of gold, some say everyone is buying now and it is overpriced, back when it was around 300 USD it was well under priced because it costs more to mine it.

So, what is the ideal spot, I'm thinking 700USD is a good price, but now we are reaching more to 800USD. Too many people are going into gold lifting the price over the real cost of mining the gold.

In EUR, it is at 600 EUR, which not bad, but if you look at the price in 2004 it was 350 EUR, in 2006 it was 500 EUR and it peaked at 650 EUR. I am looking at buying some more gold, but I'm gonna wait one more week, if it goes down below 600 EUR, great, if it stays at 600, I'll buy at 600. But I'm not going to change all my money into gold, I don't think that it will be that bad over here in the Euro Zone.

[hueyii]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Right now, gold is being paid for but not delivered...protect yourself from this kind of trap by only buying what you can walk away with....

I looked into this and found a couple of things.

Gold contracts are purchased that provide delivery with 30-60 days.

I could find no reports of defaulting on deliveries. Please provide info on this.

Gold contracts are usually never fulfilled. Generally they are sold to others for profit/loss. Gold is usually never delivered.

You can buy a contract and simply take the delivery.

There is no shortage and you can buy a contract now.

It's been this way for a long time. Of course like any contract, you risk the other party violating it and not delivering. There are reputable companies that have been buying/selling Gold and if you are buying then just be sure you pick a reputable dealer. I wont mention the big names here, do your homework and pick one yourself. Gold is north of $170/oz. today.

[ENdJOY]

Comex Gold and Silver Markets Hurtling Towards Default

The COMEX gold & silver markets are each hurtling down a dangerous path toward default. The artificial paper price has created enormous physical demand, and hampered supply production, if not delivery. The gap between the JPMorgan-led corrupted phony paper price and the legitimate physical price in actual trading markets has grown sharply, enough to force a breakdown like in any distorted market. When December contracts in gold & silver are demanded to be satisfied via delivery of the metal, it will be clear that the COMEX is running a scam. A default is highly likely. Of course, they can continue to deny contract holders the right to benefit from delivery, as they have been doing for months to ‘Non-Economic Customers' but soon the ‘Commercial Customers' will be defrauded. Arrests are warranted. We will see how this corruption unfolds.

[link to www.marketoracle.co.uk]

[Muzz]

Hi folks

Ive had no problems buying in Scotland at spot price. Still hopin it goes up!!

[hueyii]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Comex Gold and Silver Markets Hurtling Towards Default

The COMEX gold & silver markets are each hurtling down a dangerous path toward default. The artificial paper price has created enormous physical demand, and hampered supply production, if not delivery. The gap between the JPMorgan-led corrupted phony paper price and the legitimate physical price in actual trading markets has grown sharply, enough to force a breakdown like in any distorted market. When December contracts in gold & silver are demanded to be satisfied via delivery of the metal, it will be clear that the COMEX is running a scam. A default is highly likely. Of course, they can continue to deny contract holders the right to benefit from delivery, as they have been doing for months to ‘Non-Economic Customers' but soon the ‘Commercial Customers' will be defrauded. Arrests are warranted. We will see how this corruption unfolds.

[link to www.marketoracle.co.uk]

Where are you reading that contracts arent being fulfilled?

[ENdJOY]

Conclusion

If Fekete is correct, and he has seldom been wrong, then the trap is snapping shut on who will own the gold in 2009. Free-market supplies of gold are drying up, but the price is being kept low as global institutions sop up whatever crumbs are left.

Several very serious implications can be drawn:

* The massive amounts of gold leased to bullion banks will ultimately be seized by these same banks as collateral against worthless paper loans made to the Central Banks.
* Central Banks (including the Federal Reserve) could well be left to disintegrate in order to give way to a single global central bank controlled and fueled by the bullion banks who have Monopoly control over the world's gold.
* These superbanks are all closely tied to the goals and membership of the Trilateral Commission, whose members have methodically carried out a monetary policy designed to bring about this eventuality.
* For all practical intent, individuals will be frozen out of the gold market at any price.

Indeed, a global totalitarian state may be closer than we think; as the globalist's golden rule states, "He who has the gold, makes the rules."

http://www.augustreview.com/issues/g...?_20081209107/

[ENdJOY]

HAS THE CURTAIN FALLEN ON THE LAST
CONTANGO IN WASHINGTON?
Antal E. Fekete
Gold Standard University Live
Here is an update on the backwardation in gold that started on
December 2. It continued and worsened on December 3, 4, and 5. So
far this is the most serious signal of the economic crisis: the world is
rushing headlong into a Great Depression, possibly worse than that of
the 1930’s. Please remember the following analogy: the serial
devaluation of currencies starting with that of the British pound in
1931 meant a drastic drop in the velocity of gold circulation. This
spelled a contraction in world trade that proved catastrophic to
employment and economic health in general. The gold confiscation in
America in 1933 only made things worse, in particular, it was the
direct cause of the decline in interest rates that, in its turn, was the
chief cause of the widespread destruction of capital and bankruptcies.
I have discussed this correlation elsewhere.
Right now the backwardation in gold also means another drastic drop
in the velocity of gold circulation, and it will also cause a tragic
contraction in world trade. It will also be catastrophic to employment
and economic health in general. Interest rates will continue to fall with
a deleterious effect on capital. I don’t see that confiscation of gold is
in the cards this time. It could not be enforced. People would not
comply. Gold confiscation is a trick that can only be pulled off once.
A con-game won’t work for the second time.
What I see coming is that gold will be declared ‘extralegal’ by the
U.S. government to prevent gold from becoming a world currency, by
withholding legal protection from contracts made in terms of gold. For
example, if crude oil was bought for gold and the supertanker carrying
it was hijacked, and if the U.S. Navy captured the boat from the
2
pirates, then the U.S. government would confiscate the oil as
‘contraband’, arguing that it was paid for in gold. No court in the
world would give relief to the rightful owners.
I have received several inquiries how to explain the simultaneous
occurrence of gold backwardation and a further fall in the price of
gold. Here is my answer. Comex is at the verge of bankruptcy, at least
as far as its gold trading is concerned. The trouble is twofold.
First, Comex has a problem that the shorts are overextended opening
themselves to a squeeze or, ultimately, to a corner. These are attempts
on the part of gold bulls to buy up the gold certificates, instruments of
delivery against gold futures contracts. These certificates give you
legal title to the metal deposited in Comex-approved warehouses.
Such a squeeze would cripple the operation of the exchange and make
Comex lose its credibility as a viable market. When the cupboard is
empty, the game is up.
Second, Comex can no longer attract sufficient quantities of gold from
investors to its warehouses which, in consequence, get more and more
depleted. Such a gold flow is the lifeblood not only of Comex, but of
the irredeemable dollar as well. There is a world of a difference
between the irredeemable dollar with the gold window of Comex
open, and the irredeemable dollar with the gold window of Comex
closed. The institute of the gold futures market is the prop keeping the
global game of musical chairs of fiat money going. The music stops
when Comex closes its gold window.
But Comex will eventually have to declare “liquidation only” policy,
effectively closing its gold window. The phrase means revoking the
right of holders of contracts to demand delivery on their expiring gold
futures under certain circumstances. Clients have to accept settlement
on their contracts in cash. This has happened in the past, e.g., in silver
and palladium, although it has never happened in gold. It is not widely
known that Comex would not go bankrupt de jure if it declared
“liquidation only”. Small print in the contract makes allowance for
this option in case of force majeure. Nevertheless, Comex would be
considered bankrupt de facto in the eyes of the public if it declared
3
“liquidation only” on its gold futures contracts. Comex is the residual
source of the world’s only currency that is not the liability of some
government, gold.
Moreover, by implication, it would also be the end of the irredeemable
dollar as we know it. I am convinced that the managers of the
irredeemable dollar are not afraid that their prodigious dollar
proliferation policy endangers the value of the currency, Quantity
Theory of Money notwithstanding. What they are afraid of is that the
gold bulls will force Comex to close its gold window by cornering the
supply of gold certificates. When that happens, it will be not only
“gold is not for sale at any price” but also “oil is for sale only against
payment in gold”.
We have to understand that what has kept up the paper dollar’s value
through thick and thin, through war and peace, and through the
burgeoning trade deficits and budget deficits since 1975, is Comex.
This is the reason why the Chinese still take the irredeemable dollar in
payment for real goods and services, and large quantities of food can
still be purchased against payment in irredeemable dollars. But once
Comex is forced to close the gold window, the dollar will lose its main
prop and bearings and, with them, its purchasing power, even if
miraculously the U.S. could cut its trade and budget deficit to zero.
The Quantity Theory of Money is no science. It is a model, a didactic
tool. It is applicable to an imaginary linear world. This world of ours,
however, is highly non-linear.
I am convinced that the clearing members of Comex are desperately
trying to avoid permanent backwardation in gold. Not only is the gold
futures market extremely profitable for them, but their bets have been
backed by central banks gold sales and leases. All the central banks
have a vested interest in maintaining the global regime of
irredeemable currency. The clearing members want to have their cake
and eat it: they are the consistent short sellers who keep the gold price
from breaking out on the upside. But this makes gold cheap causing
mass withdrawals of gold from the warehouses, gold which they want
to keep in the warehouses for window-dressing purposes.
4
Please note that these are not naked short sales. The clearing members
are convinced of gold’s upside potential, no less than you are. Their
game plan is that, instead of gambling with their own gold, they want
to gamble with yours and mine, and with the gold of the tech-funds.
They let us buy gold futures; they let us make money occasionally.
But they know that we have to take profit from time to time because
we are undercapitalized. They know that we have to use stop loss
orders to avoid bankruptcy. What is worse, our stop loss orders are an
open book to them. We are sitting ducks which they shoot at for fun.
So we have to sell.
But whether we buy or sell, we buy into strength and sell into
weakness, which is exactly the wrong way to do business. The
clearing members’ advantage is that they always buy into weakness
and sell into strength, as they take the other side of the trade we have
initiated. They don’t worry about being undercapitalized, because they
can change the rules of the exchange capriciously, and they enjoy a
back-wind due to central bank policy. So far they have succeeded.
But something ominous is happening. Most recently central banks
have changed their policy. They have stopped selling and leasing gold.
Their commitment to bail out the clearing members with gold has
been changed to a commitment to bail them out with paper. This is
not the same thing. Central banks have stopped feeding the market
with gold sales and leases. Here is the proof.
Take Mr. Gordon Brown, the prime minister of Britain. As the
Chancellor of the Exchequer he ordered the Bank of England to sell
one half of the nation’s gold reserve in one fell swoop. He even
overruled the Governor of the Bank who first refused. The sale took
place at the average price of $250 in 2000, a major multi-year bottom.
Nice shot, Mr. Brown! The Chancellor has earned the name of the
bottom-picker of the century.
Now, as prime minister, he could order the Bag Lady of Threadneedle
Street to sell the other half. If she did, it would be a sale fetching a
5
price three times higher. Better still, she could buy back the gold in 30
days at a discount. (This is the meaning of backwardation in gold.)
But look who isn’t selling on these unbeatable terms? Why, Me-too
Gordy isn’t, that’s who. He has learnt that a bird in hand is worth a
dozen in the bush. He knows that if he falls to the temptation of ‘riskfree
profits’, he may never see his gold again. It would disappear in
the black hole of irredeemable currency, where the other half did.
Gordy has made himself the laughing stock of the world once as the
bottom-fisher of the century. He does not want to do it again. Who can
blame him? If he did, he could earn a second nickname: the sweetestsinging
crow of the century, and he doesn’t want that.
As you may recall, Aesop in one of his fables relates the story of the
crow perched on a tree holding one big loaf of cheese in his beak. The
fox beneath is hungry and salivating. He decided to get the cheese by
hook or crook. He knew he could not get it by brute force, but he
might get it through flattery, by massaging the bird’s vanity. The fox
calls the crow his friend. He is telling his friend that of all the singing
birds he loves the sweet singing of the crow best. Would his friend be
kind enough to sing for him?
After a bit of coaxing the crow started crowing, but the fox did not
stay to listen. He made off with the cheese as fast as his legs would
take him.
Mr. Brown can print pounds galore, and even swap them for dollars.
But he cannot print gold. Neither can his colleague, Helicopter Ben.
That’s why he is willing to airdrop an unlimited amount of paper, but
would not airdrop even one grain of gold to alleviate the economic
crisis of his own making. These gentlemen still think that the present
crisis is a subprime crisis and it can be tackled by flooding the system
with newly created money. Scarcely do they see that, instead of being
a real estate crisis, a stock market crisis, or a banking crisis, this is a
gold crisis. It can only be resolved by involving gold, in particular, by
remobilizing the world’s gold reserves. The most straightforward way
of doing this would be to open the U.S. Mint to gold (more precisely,
to the seigniorage-free and unlimited coinage of gold on private
6
account), as Sir Isaac Newton, Master of the Royal Mint of London
had done in the year 1717. Unfortunately, this option is no longer
available because the trust in the irredeemable dollar has been fatally
undermined by the backwardation in gold. No longer will people be
coaxed out of their physical gold by the promise of risk-free profits,
however large, payable in paper.
One possible explanation of the backwardation in gold is that the
clearing members of Comex, who could have prevented it from
happening by allowing gold to break out on the upside, have changed
tactics and decided to step aside and let backwardation do the job.
They hoped that it would pull in gold from the moon. The risk-free
profits that backwardation promises to yield would tempt holders to
swap cash gold for paper gold.
Well, so far it is not happening. Fewer than 10,000 ounces of new
gold was registered at the warehouses during this episode of
backwardation so far, not enough to deliver on even 100 contracts. By
contrast, an extra 132 December contracts were presented for delivery
by their holders.
A second possible explanation of the backwardation in gold and the
decline of the gold price to $740 on Friday, December 5, is that the
clearing members in desperation attempted to demoralize the bulls by
their persistent selling of cash gold and December futures. Hefty
margin calls went out to intimidate holders of the December contract.
But the tactic seems to have backfired: while both the cash price and
the December futures price fell, the futures price fell more.
Backwardation was the result. The bulls refused to swap their cash
gold for the December futures, in spite of further decline in the basis
(making the swap more tempting still). The contest between the good
guys (longs standing for delivery) and the bad guys (the clearing
members) may not be resolved until December 31, the last day when
the latter must deliver, or declare ‘liquidation only’. Right now it
looks as if the longs are quite prepared to call the bluff. They are
willing to face further decline in the gold price to force the issue. They
know full well that the last thing the clearing members want is to
7
declare force majeure, because that would kill the goose laying the
golden eggs for them.
Please remember that the bad guys have another secret weapon. They
can raise the margin requirement to any level higher than the value of
the underlying contract. Nasty, isn’t it? The idea is to force the longs
to sell their contracts and, in doing so, give up their right to take
delivery. Such a measure, however, would betray the utter
helplessness of the clearing members. It would be oil on the fire,
triggering a world-wide rush into cash gold, ruining other paper gold
markets (including ETF’s) in the process.
A third possible outcome is that all the gold demanded will be
delivered in December, and the deterioration in the warehouses’
holdings will be papered over in January. No matter, the battle is
already shaping up for the February confrontation when the bad guys
will be in an even weaker position.
To sum up, the gold price is not the issue right now. The low gold
price is a side show trying to scare the longs out of their cash gold
positions. Here the iron rule of the commodity markets applies: you
can squeeze the bears, but you can never squeeze the bulls. The reason
is that the best you can do to shake the bulls out of their position is to
tempt them with risk-free profits to give up physical gold against
future gold. That is happening right now. But it appears that, for the
first time, cash gold can no longer be coaxed out with paper profits.
After all, gold is gold, and paper is paper.
This is why this battle is so crucial: it is the first real confrontation
between physical gold and the paper dollar. Paper gold is
marginalized. We know that, in the long run, the paper dollar cannot
stand up to physical gold. However, as Keynes has warned us, in the
long run we are all dead. This time it’s different. The long run ends on
December 31, 2008.
The “last contango in Washington” refers to the end of the hegemony
of the irredeemable dollar that is in no position to throw its weight
around any more. The advent of backwardation means that a writing
8
has appeared on the wall: “Mene tekel, upharsin”: the dollar has been
weighed and found wanting. On the last day of this year of economic
and financial surprises we shall know whether the backwardation in
gold is permanent, or whether it will become permanent only after the
inauguration of the new president, at the expiration of the next active
gold futures contract in February.
Either way, this is a contest the bad guys cannot win. They are at the
end of their rope. The low gold price means that they are left with just
enough rope to hang themselves.
References
The Last Contango in Washington, June 30, 2006
Red Alert: Gold Backwardation!!! December 4, 2008
This and other articles of the author can be accessed at the website
www.professorfekete.com
Note: the author is writing a follow-up piece:
There’s No Fever Like Gold Fever
Stay tuned.

[hueyii]

thanks. I read that the first time but did not see where contracts were not being fulfilled or cancelled. Before I read it again is there a key phrase I can search for? Srting to see double. Been at the computer all day...

[_N_]

thanks, that interesting info, sounds very true