Defining GOOD and EVIL

[MacGyverCanada]

I'm going with my buddy Nietzche on this one... 'good' and 'evil' aren't anything but concepts in the human mind. There are many opinions on what it means to be 'good' or 'evil', with variations based mostly on culture. Because of this, I don't believe that there is a purely evil figure (anti-Christ) that will descend upon the world. There will almost certainly be a figure(s) who we would describe as being evil who will stir up some nastiness in the future sometime, but I don't believe that there will be any religious significance.

Take this as an example: Lets say that there are two tribal villages of 100 people, and each has a chief. Over several years, drought ruins the food crops. Suddenly, each village is faced with a monumentous problem: It will be three months before the first harvest of the year, and there is only enough food left for 20 people. One village chief (A) gathers 19 other strong and intelligent villagers, and proceeds to slay all others. He and the small group with him survive the drought and are eventually able to rebuild the village. in the other village (B), the chief decides to try and spread out the food resources to everyone. After two months, everyone has died.

Which chief would you consider to be 'good'? You could argue that (A) is an evil man, who killed his neighbours in order to save himself, and the good man is the compassionate chief of (B). Likewise, you can argue that (A) is the good one because he ultimately saved his village and some of its people, and that (B) is the evil one because he was unwilling to make the necessary emotional and physical sacrifices needed to save his own village.

Does willingness to sacrifice create goodness, or is that a sign of cowardice in the face of challenge?

Is goodness defined by giving to others? By giving up his share of food and thus perishing, would the village doctor be contributing to or taking from the 'greater good'? What IS the 'greater good'?

In my personal belief system, the 'greater good' is that which benefits Humanity. As I consider it, humanity should be regarded as a single unit. I'm not too worried about the Earth to be honest, except in terms of Humanity. If the planet gets messed up by whatever means, Humanity, as well as most other life, may certainly perish. But life is extremely robust, and something will certainly survive. It might mean evolution would have to start from scratch, but it would return.

For now, I believe that we have to figure out how to get Humanity to think as one unit, so we can function as one organism. If Humans work as a single unit in terms of self-preservation and self-betterment, then we will acheive so much more than we ever have before. There is a long way to go without some radical changes in thought. The loss of the individual is a possibility... as is a socity which could be Brave New World'esque.

I'm ranting like a drunken NeoCon... any thoughts on all of this?

[feeler]

MacGyverCanada


If at this moment you realize that you are included as part of the 90% of the population to be eliminated in order to make room for the few selected (i.e. the "strong and intelligent"), how would you feel when you find out that you are the "chosen one" (deemed unfit and stupid) - to be sacrificed?

*Worse yet, what if the "strong and intelligent" conspired against you, to sacrifice you without your knowledge or consent of their conspiracy? Is that good?


-feeler

[Heretic]

great post and I agree, and I believe we as a people are in a period of redefinition

I remember reading a philosophical essay on good an evil and got this from it:

all people walk on a path with the hopes and aspirations of reaching a pre-determined destination, which can be based on all spectrum of perception

anything that you deem as an obstacle or a roadblock to reaching that destination will be perceived as a negative influence to be overcome and/avoided and evil in nature

while some things will empower and nurture you on you way down this path and will be considered positive and good

I believe that the path IS the destination and how we judge ourselves as we travel it, is the very empowerment or disability that drives us

therefore both are subjective and it is no wonder that many people disagree, and thats OK until we start judging each other based on temporary belief

[One 66]

"Belief is the down fall of man" - One 66

"What does it matter that I am proved right! I am too much in the right. - And he who laughs best today will also laugh last." - Nietzsche

One 66

There has to be good and evil since you have to have a choice to use your Free Will which is the key to Creation....

[Steve_A]

Hi MacGyverCanada,

The two walk hand in hand...

Best regards,

Steve

[dayzero]

I like Nietsche, always a good read, but he's often a bit clever for his own good.

His short book Twilight of the Idols/The Antichrist springs to mind, relevant to your post....


The 'thinking as one unit' you mention is really well addressed in the Handbook for the New Paradigm, If you haven't read it, I'm serializing it [see link], and i think you'd love it if you like N.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=6721

[samncheese]

The Law of One, there is service to others (good) and service to self (evil) Everything else is just degrees of service.

Be at peace

I get your point Mac, but I think it's harder to define what is "good" and "evil" during times of strife, crisis, and hard decisions, as illustrated in the example you provided. True Goodness and true evil are more easily defined (and recognized) during times of calm. During a time of peace and tranquility, the Good ones will attempt to preserve and expand it, while the evil ones will go out of their way to subvert the peace into anything other than peace, which is how the global elite chooses to operate.

Good & Evil
Positive & Negative
Light & Dark
Hot & Cold
Day & Night
Young & Old
Happy & Sad
Sane & Crazy

These all are extremes. They are all the same. They are all necessary to seek the balance - the Creaator.

Alexandra

[777 The Great Work]

Originally Posted by Steve_A

Hi MacGyverCanada,

The two walk hand in hand...

Best regards,

Steve

TWO OF THE SAME THING
I agree we forgot the old ways.

Yet the symbols are here to remind us.

[Malletzky]

Originally Posted by MacGyverCanada

Take this as an example: Lets say that there are two tribal villages of 100 people, and each has a chief. Over several years, drought ruins the food crops. Suddenly, each village is faced with a monumentous problem: It will be three months before the first harvest of the year, and there is only enough food left for 20 people. One village chief (A) gathers 19 other strong and intelligent villagers, and proceeds to slay all others. He and the small group with him survive the drought and are eventually able to rebuild the village. in the other village (B), the chief decides to try and spread out the food resources to everyone. After two months, everyone has died.

Which chief would you consider to be 'good'?

Hmmm..maybe I can do a bit better then Nietzche this time???

My point of view: No one is evil, no one is good!!! They both made a decision !!

But Chief (A) did a mistake: he JUGDED !!!!
He dared to judge who's worth of living !!!

And this is IMO (hmm, do I judge him now?) the worst he could've decide!

[UncaRay]

As Nietszche pointed out "Good and Evil" are mutable concepts that only arise because humans are self aware beings that think in symbolic concepts. That idea may depress some people, but in fact it is liberating to understand that it is so. This means that "Civilization" is a question of choice. WE decide what manner of creatures we want to be and what form of civilization we want to live in by embodying our choice.

[MacGyverCanada]

Originally Posted by feeler

MacGyverCanada


If at this moment you realize that you are included as part of the 90% of the population to be eliminated in order to make room for the few selected (i.e. the "strong and intelligent"), how would you feel when you find out that you are the "chosen one" (deemed unfit and stupid) - to be sacrificed?

*Worse yet, what if the "strong and intelligent" conspired against you, to sacrifice you without your knowledge or consent of their conspiracy? Is that good?


-feeler

Then I hope that I go gracefully. If there is a great conspiracy to cull the population, of course I hope to be a part of the survivors. If not, I hope that A: those in power are motivated by more than greed, etc, and B: I hope they had a good reason to sacrifice me!

I agree that 'good' and 'evil' are part of a subjective scale... We call the spectrum of hot and cold "Temperature", now what do we call the scale of good and evil? But, temperature is something easily defined. A subjective measure will always have zillions of confounding factors.

Now here's another thought exercise... Lets look at a group of people who have all killed another person: The soldier who killed on the orders of others, the schizophrenic who killed thinking he was in danger, the policeman who killed a murderer in a shootout, the criminal who killed out of desparation, the doctor who killed a patient through negligent practice, the sociopath who killed out of curiosity, the fanatic who killed based on their beliefs... the list can go on and on. The challenge to you is this: can you find fault in the individual, or is if the environment of the individual which is more destructive?

[Seva]

Very thought provoking thread Bravo

these are things we must look at from within ourselves in order to grow.

Originally Posted by MacGyverCanada

Then I hope that I go gracefully. If there is a great conspiracy to cull the population, of course I hope to be a part of the survivors. If not, I hope that A: those in power are motivated by more than greed, etc, and B: I hope they had a good reason to sacrifice me!

I agree that 'good' and 'evil' are part of a subjective scale... We call the spectrum of hot and cold "Temperature", now what do we call the scale of good and evil? But, temperature is something easily defined. A subjective measure will always have zillions of confounding factors.

Now here's another thought exercise... Lets look at a group of people who have all killed another person: The soldier who killed on the orders of others, the schizophrenic who killed thinking he was in danger, the policeman who killed a murderer in a shootout, the criminal who killed out of desparation, the doctor who killed a patient through negligent practice, the sociopath who killed out of curiosity, the fanatic who killed based on their beliefs... the list can go on and on. The challenge to you is this: can you find fault in the individual, or is if the environment of the individual which is more destructive?

[Jenny]

This thread is reviewed and moved back to the forum.

Isn't that great?

[Heretic]

true or false?

all is fair in love and war