Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

[madgolem]

Originally Posted by sjkted

I've posted an honest letter to Bill Ryan with my views on this topic. I'm not going to double-post, but I'll put a link to it here: http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...&postcount=579. I'm looking forward to hearing from Bill.

--sjkted

Bravo! I coundn't have put it any better. I really hope to hear from Bill on this one. I know Bill and Kerry have good intentions because they cut off dan burish and leo zagami upon finding out that they're disinfo agents. But there's still disinfo agent bill deagle and shills like miriam delicado spreading lies on PC.

[swordsmith]

something stinks in project camembert, and it ain't francie jones.

Shame Kerry isn't more involved here or better still , could put Bill on a leash, but we all must move on in life and when there is this much tolerated (never mind defended) HYPOCRISY in a place supposedly devoted to truth, well , what a ***king joke, and I am tired of the swear ban, how old are we here?

People, seriously consider what forums actually are for. They exist mainly to mine information and manipulate the gullible. Sad, because the gullible so often come from the heart ,too.
For example, if you doubt that forums are for these purposes, then go to GLP ( god like productions) and mention just the word "Tavistock" , why? because that is the name of the social research ( engineering) group mining data there,( amongst others) It's an instant ban. People hate to be banned so they tow the line and give away a little of their integrity in increments, just to stay with their friends. Nobody is my friend here. the truth is my friend
yup, truth be told?... you wont find it here or maybe just the soft bits and the good stuff from people's hearts, but that is not what this place was set up for... in theory.
Besides, I just hate to see what happens when people become moderators, ego much? The third reich is quite easy to understand when you see what a little power does to people, god save me from the petty official.
Thanks to all the good ones who either stuck their necks out or tried to though.
Have fun in cloudy cuckoo land folks, it's getting pretty murky.

[abraxasinas]

Originally Posted by swordsmith

something stinks in project camembert, and it ain't francie jones.

Shame Kerry isn't more involved here or better still , could put Bill on a leash, but we all must move on in life and when there is this much tolerated (never mind defended) HYPOCRISY in a place supposedly devoted to truth, well , what a ***king joke, and I am tired of the swear ban, how old are we here?

People, seriously consider what forums actually are for. They exist mainly to mine information and manipulate the gullible. Sad, because the gullible so often come from the heart ,too.
For example, if you doubt that forums are for these purposes, then go to GLP ( god like productions) and mention just the word "Tavistock" , why? because that is the name of the social research ( engineering) group mining data there,( amongst others) It's an instant ban. People hate to be banned so they tow the line and give away a little of their integrity in increments, just to stay with their friends. Nobody is my friend here. the truth is my friend
yup, truth be told?... you wont find it here or maybe just the soft bits and the good stuff from people's hearts, but that is not what this place was set up for... in theory.
Besides, I just hate to see what happens when people become moderators, ego much? The third reich is quite easy to understand when you see what a little power does to people, god save me from the petty official.
Thanks to all the good ones who either stuck their necks out or tried to though.
Have fun in cloudy cuckoo land folks, it's getting pretty murky.

There is much truth in the words of swordsmith and his disappointment in the general 'quality' of forums on the internet is well justified and easily validated by the impartial observer.

However, many 'oldtimers' here would remember the tediousness of writing letters, photocopying them and then sending them through the mail to their destinations. And this after consulting encylopedias or public libraries and books in timeconsuming efforts to 'share information' say without having access to publishers of the written or the spoken words.

There IS a 'Change of Guard' on the horizon and this change will require much effort of deconditioning mind manipulation (not all of a devious nature) of say a thousand generations (20x1000).

Of course there will be ego-issues of all: founders, contributors and moderators.

Allow me to say however, that despite some 'strange mod decisions'; the moderators here have exhibited spiritual maturity and a necessary selfdiscipline in most circumstances.

As swordsmith has said however; this 'banning business' should NOT be implemented as it is at the present state of the affairs.

In situations of dispute a poll asking all contributors about 'disputed behaviour' would represent a selfregulatory mechanism and clearly 'crystallize' via 'peer pressure' if a certain 'pattern' is acceptable to the majority or not.
The moderators, instead of banning, could call for the polls.

Abraxasinas

[Olam]

This is my first post since the forum went free again. I originally was here in the first few days of this website.

It is quite different now than how it started.
You might wonder why am I saying all this.
Well its just so that you know where im coming from.

I do not want to get personal with anyone, or fan the flames, but I have to say this.

This thread is an amazing study on how things never change.
As far as I know, this website was supposed to be avantgarde and trailblazing, showing the way to a new kind of action, new kind of thinking and how we should act in a new society.
Sadly, its mostly ego based and "he said, she said" mentality.
Don't get me wrong, there are alot of great people here doing some great work, but when we strip away the articles,and info, we are left with people arguing based on the principle of opinion and free speech,"democracy".

All this is still inside the ego box. imagine all of us in a small community, faced with lets say a tsunami or great flood 3 hours away.....
Would the opinions change?....deep down, I think not. The percentage of survivors would be based on individual action for ones self.

Again, don,t get me wrong....this is how society is. This is how we learned to survive.......
I have been waiting here to see if it can be different and sofar, I think not.

Before anyone asks me why I don't contribute instead of bitching,....I still come here for the great info, but I can't stand loosing energy areguing with some of you. I did contribute in the last Avalon Epoch, I guess you could read that and see how I am.

Sometimes, we are too close to the trees and cannot perceive the forest.

Sorry if this is not clear, english in my second language.

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by madgolem

Bravo! I coundn't have put it any better. I really hope to hear from Bill on this one. I know Bill and Kerry have good intentions because they cut off dan burish and leo zagami upon finding out that they're disinfo agents. But there's still disinfo agent bill deagle and shills like miriam delicado spreading lies on PC.

I was under the impression that Dan Burish dumped Bill and Kerry. Am I mistaken here?

--sjkted

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Olam

This is my first post since the forum went free again. I originally was here in the first few days of this website.

It is quite different now than how it started.
You might wonder why am I saying all this.
Well its just so that you know where im coming from.

I do not want to get personal with anyone, or fan the flames, but I have to say this.

This thread is an amazing study on how things never change.
As far as I know, this website was supposed to be avantgarde and trailblazing, showing the way to a new kind of action, new kind of thinking and how we should act in a new society.
Sadly, its mostly ego based and "he said, she said" mentality.
Don't get me wrong, there are alot of great people here doing some great work, but when we strip away the articles,and info, we are left with people arguing based on the principle of opinion and free speech,"democracy".

All this is still inside the ego box. imagine all of us in a small community, faced with lets say a tsunami or great flood 3 hours away.....
Would the opinions change?....deep down, I think not. The percentage of survivors would be based on individual action for ones self.

Again, don,t get me wrong....this is how society is. This is how we learned to survive.......
I have been waiting here to see if it can be different and sofar, I think not.

Before anyone asks me why I don't contribute instead of bitching,....I still come here for the great info, but I can't stand loosing energy areguing with some of you. I did contribute in the last Avalon Epoch, I guess you could read that and see how I am.

Sometimes, we are too close to the trees and cannot perceive the forest.

Sorry if this is not clear, english in my second language.

I think the real problem is our mental conditioning. I agree with all of this and I don't think it is in our nature to act this way. I predict that even if we did get a chance to change things, the problem is that the seeds for the way to act and what is appropriate has already been planted in our minds. In other words, it would only be a matter of time before we collectively manifested the status quo that is this world again. And if we couldn't do it, then we would train our children well enough so that they could do it.

One positive thing I see with the economic meltdown is that it is a paradigm changer and because of it, people of all walks of life are going to be re-thinking all of their beliefs and axioms in life because they are no longer working. As their old beliefs are destroyed with the old systems, there will be an opportunity for them to adopt something new. The question is whether they will just look for another box in which to store their consciousness or if they will go down the longer route of expanding it.

--sjkted

[mudhog92]

Who here is infallable enough to judge another on their actions? Agree or disagree, need there be more?

We are all capable and reminded to make decisions for ourselves. Make our own decisons from our own experiences, not the experiences of others.


Why give someone enough power to make you angry?

If you care not for something someone says, give it no power. Keep the power for yourself.

One outburst does not make someone an idiot despite all the good work they have done already.

[truth and integrity]

Originally posted by sjkted
I was under the impression that Dan Burish dumped Bill and Kerry. Am I mistaken here?

No, you are not. Burish dumped them but Kerry and Bill tried to convince us that even though Burish was quite compartmentalized, he was telling the truth.

Best regards,

[morguana]

Originally Posted by mudhog92

Who here is infallable enough to judge another on their actions? Agree or disagree, need there be more?

We are all capable and reminded to make decisions for ourselves. Make our own decisons from our own experiences, not the experiences of others.


Why give someone enough power to make you angry?

If you care not for something someone says, give it no power. Keep the power for yourself.

One outburst does not make someone an idiot despite all the good work they have done already.

Thank you for posting words of balance, something we could all learn from.
M x

[TAXMASTER]

here is my take whether anyone cares or not. ( i am a tri-plegic and 1 handed typer so excuse mu punctuation)

i have followed for several years. i first came across burisch on earthfiles and was fascinated with all the detail and really wanted to believe. after he opened his own web site, i started to scrutinise his presentation. first let me say that i am a fairly intelligent person with a healthy vocabulary and i have met many people who are much more intelligent than i and most people that want to be understood usually talk at a level that can be understood by most people. burisch loves to dangle a vocabulary that most find difficult to understand which tells me that he wants to impress everyone on his intelligence. there was a video of him receiving mail that was supposed to be unknown by him so he could get his reaction and it all looked staged plus how could he not know about the secret camera? then there were pictures of him delivering food to the poor with notations by marcia about how much dan gives to the poor and homeless. again somebody wanted to impress us on how spectacular he was. then there are all these copies of articles of incorporation and other items on display that anyone can get by paying the fees and filing out some paperwork. another way to impress those that don't know any different. he is probably really intelligent but has the emotional makeup of a child and badly needs to impress us for his own self esteem. i do not see the government employing such a time bomb for sensitive work.

in listening to deagle, he appears to have a vulnerable and sincere tone in many of his interviews. i think bill is taken by his personality and feels protective of it in some way. my gut instinct is that he has mental problems and is delusional but because he seems very functional and has had tremendous credentials, and is a super intelligent being, PC takes him as the real deal. i think that he thinks he is telling the truth and because of his displays of tears in some interviews, Bill believes he is genuine and feels a need to protect him.

i never believed or trusted leo zagami. he seemed like he was high on something during his interview because he could not answer the question without getting off subject.

i am still on the fence about ben fulford but he always reports on these wild things that can never be substantiated. for now i listen and take with a grain of salt.

dr pete peterson reminded me of the first time i used a condom. my partner was well satisfied and i was loaded but couldn't fire any rounds. in other words, i went through the motion and got nothing at the end. as my dad told me once he went to an "all you can eat" restaurant for $5 and they brought out the first plate that he finished rather handily and asked for another. the waitress said it would be another $5 and my dad said the sign said "all you can eat" and the waitress replied "that's right sir, that was all you could eat"

michael st claire has a good vibe to him and i think he is one of the good guys.

i used to think david icke was a kook but have changed my mind. i like his message and i can buy into just about anything he says but i am on the fence with the whole reptillian bloodline thing.

i think that sometimes the people here are a little too judgemental of bill and kerry. they are not professional reporters but overall i think they get the message out that each person has to tell. the only critisism i have is that if you are playing reporter, you must be objective and not get personally or emotionally involved with the whistleblowers otherwise you ruin your credibilty as an "objective reporter".

I welcome responses.

Namaste'

[Olam]

Originally Posted by mudhog92

Who here is infallable enough to judge another on their actions? Agree or disagree, need there be more?

We are all capable and reminded to make decisions for ourselves. Make our own decisons from our own experiences, not the experiences of others.


Why give someone enough power to make you angry?

If you care not for something someone says, give it no power. Keep the power for yourself.

One outburst does not make someone an idiot despite all the good work they have done already.

Yes, very wise words mudhog 92. It was inevitable that in my rant, talking about ego, well I used mine to write what I wrote. I am not mad though, rather sad at the current situation. I certainly don,t think of anyone as an idiot! that is still well within the box.
I still really think that humanity has a bad habit of not changeing anything unless we are up against the wall.
Thats it for me, I see the wall in the distance and wish very much we all push on the same side to stop it. Or if its unstoppable, how can we make the hit less violent psycologically as well as pysically.

I started the reply by saying that this thread is a reflection of who we are really, I do not judge anyone personally.We all have our strenghts, talents and weakneses.
That being said, I was well aware that my words would be taken in different ways by diffeent people, thats how we still live and have learned to live for thousands of years.
Well, its my personal thought that this type of life is about to end. We can choose to resort to being the Phoenix that rises from its very badly charred ashes, or we can choose to see the transition as giving birth. To me the 2 are very different and lead to almost the same place.

We are in the transition phase now and I feel we have no time for in the box disscussions and opinions on stuff that won't save your life(pysically and mentally) or your families life, or even your neighbors life....
Are my wishes just blowing against the wind?......I think not.
You are the society and the society is you. We rely on third parties to govern,regulate and ultimately control our life. Its been going on for thousands of years.
Its high time that we take individual responsability for ourselves first and include our immediate surroundings, or your local reality if you will.
If everyone understood that, I feel we would give birth to something grand and divine that has never been done before on this blue ball. Not only that but the end result will be a direct refection on how we got there.
To me that is much more desirable than violent crash and burn and then rise from that.
Namaste

[Kulapops]

I'd like to say (ego!) that I was also here back along and I think looking back over the period that I have changed quite a lot.

I agree with the thought that perhaps the forum slipped below our initial high expectations of building new communities where people could perhaps learn to love and tolerate each other through the difficult times ahead. Perhaps it's just-another-forum after all.

But hang on... what I will say is that I have 'met' some great, inspirational characters here (and a couple in person) and they have helped me hold to my truth that we are right to believe in a better world. and many of those post reams of information and videos.

Once the initial scandalous attraction for information (and whistleblowers) regarding the immediate-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it subsided in me after the first ooh, say, year or so... I've since picked up much more practical info on topics like health and nutrition.

I don't really watch whistleblower vids any more...I've even stopped checking out the Camelot frontpage, because I don't see what use that information has in my life.

But the people, and the love, and the hope, and the desire for self-improvement is real. And Bill and Kerry did start the ball rolling on that by setting up this forum. So kudos to them for that.

This forum will bump along, but it's definitely moving in the right direction.

I now think that if we put our own life on hold to listen to what the next whistleblower reveals, or to debate their validity, we're just missing the point.

Say they announce there are ETs and we get a bonefide irrefutable witness. Say they land on the whitehouse lawn? What then?

We still need to eat, we still need to love, we still need to grow. It doesn't change a thing.

Peace n love,

K

[Stargazer1965]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

I'd like to say (ego!) that I was also here back along and I think looking back over the period that I have changed quite a lot.

I agree with the thought that perhaps the forum slipped below our initial high expectations of building new communities where people could perhaps learn to love and tolerate each other through the difficult times ahead. Perhaps it's just-another-forum after all.

But hang on... what I will say is that I have 'met' some great, inspirational characters here (and a couple in person) and they have helped me hold to my truth that we are right to believe in a better world. and many of those post reams of information and videos.

Once the initial scandalous attraction for information (and whistleblowers) regarding the immediate-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it subsided in me after the first ooh, say, year or so... I've since picked up much more practical info on topics like health and nutrition.

I don't really watch whistleblower vids any more...I've even stopped checking out the Camelot frontpage, because I don't see what use that information has in my life.

But the people, and the love, and the hope, and the desire for self-improvement is real. And Bill and Kerry did start the ball rolling on that by setting up this forum. So kudos to them for that.

This forum will bump along, but it's definitely moving in the right direction.

I now think that if we put our own life on hold to listen to what the next whistleblower reveals, or to debate their validity, we're just missing the point.

Say they announce there are ETs and we get a bonefide irrefutable witness. Say they land on the whitehouse lawn? What then?

We still need to eat, we still need to love, we still need to grow. It doesn't change a thing.

Peace n love,

K

Great post KPops!!

I was just thinking the other day I don't hit the Camelot site anymore....

[Panta rhei]

Originally Posted by swordsmith

something stinks in project camembert, and it ain't francie jones.

Shame Kerry isn't more involved here or better still , could put Bill on a leash, but we all must move on in life and when there is this much tolerated (never mind defended) HYPOCRISY in a place supposedly devoted to truth, well , what a ***king joke, and I am tired of the swear ban, how old are we here?

People, seriously consider what forums actually are for. They exist mainly to mine information and manipulate the gullible. Sad, because the gullible so often come from the heart ,too.
For example, if you doubt that forums are for these purposes, then go to GLP ( god like productions) and mention just the word "Tavistock" , why? because that is the name of the social research ( engineering) group mining data there,( amongst others) It's an instant ban. People hate to be banned so they tow the line and give away a little of their integrity in increments, just to stay with their friends. Nobody is my friend here. the truth is my friend
yup, truth be told?... you wont find it here or maybe just the soft bits and the good stuff from people's hearts, but that is not what this place was set up for... in theory.
Besides, I just hate to see what happens when people become moderators, ego much? The third reich is quite easy to understand when you see what a little power does to people, god save me from the petty official.
Thanks to all the good ones who either stuck their necks out or tried to though.
Have fun in cloudy cuckoo land folks, it's getting pretty murky.

I think there is some truth in this, there were many moments when I wished more discernment for PC as well, but discernment is not an easy thing. I think everyone can get lost in all those spectacular details someone like Dan Burisch is telling and lose the feeling for discernment, because the mind is so busy with trying to puzzle all those pieces together. That's the sad part because that's exactly what they want. To destract us and to stoke fears like Bill Deagle.

But on the other hand it's up to everyone to discern for ourselves. PC provides the info and a lot of it is of big value without any doubt and I'm very grateful for PC and what every person involved in this project does. So why not separate the wheat from the chaff for ourselves....

[Carol]

There is a long list of those who dumped B&K. What one should ask is why.

[puke]

An interface to something......yes
An interface to something "higher"...becomes a matter of definition.

I was surprized that Clif spent any energy at all making a reply on the forum.

I was almost equally surprized that Bill spent time on a reply to Clif.

We all have enough discretion not to need either one of those to tell us what we think of Deagle, Dan, or (insert name here). Although having another forum is a good place to glean info. and then discern.

Nuff said.

[YinYangMind]

[SIZE="2"]Quote:
Originally Posted by petem
hi bill,
Your statements regarding Clif High hiring a "PI" to research Dr Bill has raised many an eyebrow among us Avalon veterans.

Thanks for this - this is one of a number of questions asked in this thread and on the one dedicated to discussing the issue.

The issue is sensitive, so I’ll just say this:

1) Kerry immediately invited Clif to her radio show so that he could discuss the issues with me and her. He declined.

2) My view remains firm that Clif High should not be investigating (and drawing conclusions from) Bill Deagle’s private finances with an intention to discredit him. And this IS his intention.

3) I was physically present in the room with Henry Deacon (Arthur Neumann) when he talked with Bill Deagle for 45 minutes in early December 2007, which included a fascinating exchange about classified projects, project locations, codewords and clearances. It was the first time they had spoken.

There was absolutely no doubt that the conversation was genuine and that Bill Deagle and Henry were both in the many places they stated they were. I'm personally convinced that (like Henry) Bill Deagle is well-intentioned, is a brave and principled man, and has told the truth as best as he knows it.

If Clif High has a different view, he has a right to that. But in my opinion Clif would be best advised to focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers without going out of his way to denigrate them publicly, digging up private financial information in order to try to do so.

Well, I'm not sure how the rest of those who have expressed interested in this topic will feel about Bill's response to this particular question from his thread, but for what it's worth, here's my observation...

1. Out of the several posts, comments, questions regarding Bill's initial pathetic response to Clif's open letter, Bill either has not seen the other posts/questions on his thread about it, or has completly ignored them and certainly hasn't seen the thread here...or maybe he has which may explain the response above.

2. Not sure when Kerry invited Clif on her radio show ('if' this is true, wouldn't it have made sense for Bill to make that known to those of us who have/were interested in seeing closure on this?) but Clif stated on his web site about two weeks ago that all interviews for January were canceled due to personal responsibilities which may explain why he declined...Clif is certainly not shy nor intimidated by Bill or Kerry and would, without a doubt, clearly articulate his position with which I'm sure Kerry would struggle with...wonder if Bill would have been on the show as well??? After all, it's Bill who has the issue here, not Kerry.

3. Is Bill suffering some memory loss? In his mini mea-culpa to Clif's open letter, he stated that he (Bill) was incorrect in stating that Clif had hired a PI to investigate Deagle and Clif clearly stated that he did not investigate Deagle's finances, yet Bill states in this response that Clif 'should not be investigating someones personal finances with the intention to discredit him...and that IS his intention!' Wow! Not only did Clif not do what Bill aledges, but makes another 'claim' of what Clif's intentions are without providing evidence or proof! Clif simply did what the rest of us have asked B&K to do with their 'whistleblowers'...

4. Here we go again...complete support without considering or addressing the well documented, public facts (some of which contain financial information without 'digging') of the many nefarious issues surrounding Deagle...there are none so blind as they who will not see!

5. Bill should take his own advice given to Clif in his last statement of the response...in fact, Clif does exactly what Bill suggests... 'focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers' and either supports quantifyable data (LaViolette, Geryl, etc.) or calls them out (Deagle, et al) when he finds supporting data/information/evidence...the only objective Clif ever expresses is facts and truth, not blind acceptance and loyalty.

This has pretty much sealed the loss of any trust and respect I've had for B&K, and I've promoted their work to many over the years. In fact, it has mostly been Bill who I thought had the best grasp and conduct throughout the interviews where Kerry just seemed to struggle, Bill picked up the pieces.

To all of the PA members who have taken the high road with 'can't we all get along, peace, love, brotherhood, personal space/place in time, spiritual growth in one's own time, higher this & that, back at ya and I wish you well. For me, the 'policitally correct, love your brother in spirit' perspective is just a little to wishy-washy when it comes to human discourse and interaction, in fact, the universe is both hard and soft in it's expression and manifestation and sometimes it takes you to the mat and it's time to get tough. I hope my statements and comments are taken for what they are...

'Always speak your mind and thoughts, those who matter won't mind and those who mind don't matter!'

Peace,
YinYangMind]

[sjkted]

3. Is Bill suffering some memory loss? In his mini mea-culpa to Clif's open letter, he stated that he (Bill) was incorrect in stating that Clif had hired a PI to investigate Deagle and Clif clearly stated that he did not investigate Deagle's finances, yet Bill states in this response that Clif 'should not be investigating someones personal finances with the intention to discredit him...and that IS his intention!' Wow! Not only did Clif not do what Bill aledges, but makes another 'claim' of what Clif's intentions are without providing evidence or proof! Clif simply did what the rest of us have asked B&K to do with their 'whistleblowers'...

Strange indeed. I had to read the post a few times as I was trying to make sure I wasn't re-reading an old post. It's almost as if he forgot the last message and all of the fuss it generated.

--sjkted

[Kulapops]

Maybe there are two Bill's ?!!

Sheesh.. I'm only joking !

[sjkted]

He obviously didn't read my letter to him Re: Bill Deagle. Per Bill Ryan's post today on Bill Deagle. He is still correlating information from the different sources...

Why anyone thinks he presents disinformation I genuinely don't understand. His information correlates strongly with ours (from totally separate sources).

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by sjkted

He obviously didn't read my letter to him Re: Bill Deagle. Per Bill Ryan's post today on Bill Deagle. He is still correlating information from the different sources...

Why anyone thinks he presents disinformation I genuinely don't understand. His information correlates strongly with ours (from totally separate sources).

Your message to Bill was articulate, to the point and more relevant than any others on this subject as well as many others! In fact, it may be filled with too much intelligence and specificity for him to handle based on the responses he's provided to other (less meaningful IMO) posts. It's really becoming too vacuous and diaphanous for my tastes.

If you haven't heard the Veritas Show with Mel Fabregas www.VeritasShow.com, I encourage you to visit and listen to the show highlights Mel provides. He not only has an excellent interview with Clif, but his interview with Bob Dean is far superior (again, IMO) than all the Dean interviews done by B&K. Mel has excellent interview skills and intellect that even his guests admire...which I think results in more quantifiable and quality information for the listener.

Got a good scratch going on with B&K/PC/PA as a result of the strange and nefarious goings on of late and how they are being/not being handled. I realize they are amatures at what they are doing which comes out quite regularly, but even amatures can do a great job when the key drivers are intent with integrity and the pursuit of facts and truth regardless of personal belief/agenda/system.

Mel's position/question as the focus of his show is, "Do you want to believe, or do you want to know?" I want both, but I must know before I can believe.

Something strange wrapped in change comes this way sooner than later. Separating the wheat from the chaff is more important now than ever. I've seen enough chaff around here and it's time to make some bread!

There's truth and then there's facts...everybody needs to pick one or the other and proceed with alacrity...time is short!

Peace,

YinYangMind

[dolphin]

yingyang, you've put it in a nutshell. very well said. i've been here since pa started, and have "followed" their interviews and info all along, trusting their motives, until it started to get very weird, both b and k and their whistleblowers. i've lost all respect for bill on this one and when you listen to mel's show on veritas, well, there's no comparison who's the pro. mel is just the best out there.

bill just doesn't get it, and after reading his second response, well, amazingly he still doesn't get it... it's about integrity. their ship is sinking and the crew are abandoning ship.

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by shiva777

(Quoting Clif High) I began my own research into Bill Deagle by the simple expedient of Google ... In the investigation that I did perform with Google, the second query that I used was “Dr + Bill + Deagle + fraud”. The results led me directly to the information that I passed on to Bill Ryan that he has misunderstood.

Actually, what happened was that Clif High used information gained by someone who got access to Dr Deagle's personal bank account, which he found via a Google search, rather than by hiring a PI.

That's my understanding of the sequence of events.

[sjkted]

Ok. That would explain Bill Ryan's last response. Some things can get distorted with threads on the internet :-) Apparently, there aren't two of him.

--sjkted

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

Actually, what happened was that Clif High used information gained by someone who got access to Dr Deagle's personal bank account, which he found via a Google search, rather than by hiring a PI.

That's my understanding of the sequence of events.

Seashore, where did your 'understanding' come from? This information while interesting doesn't seem to add to the substance of the issue.

Highly curious considering the following:

Here's Bill's first 'public' response to the original question which prompted Clif's 'Open Letter':

“As best we understand, Clif High set a PI [Private Investigator] on Deagle's bank account without Deagle's knowledge or consent, with an instruction to look for something that could be used against him.

The PI found some income that he could not account for and Clif therefore assumed that he must be a paid agent.

It's an understatement to say that this is very dumb of Clif, who is normally a bright guy. If anyone looked in to my bank account, or yours, or anyone's, they would find things they didn't understand. I don't even understand my own bank statements sometimes."

His latest statement does not include the original information in his reply to Clif's letter on 12/15 about getting an email directly from Clif about the alledged PI/Financial information:

"What I'd called a PI [Private Investigator] was described in the original e-mail (sent to me on 14 April) by Clif as a "researcher/detective". This person was NOT hired by him. My mistake, and I'm happy to correct that."

Questions come to mind on this:

1. Bill states that the information came from an 'original e-mail from Clif on April 14' and now the issue surfaces 8 months later???

2. Bill only mentions this supposed e-mail once but never produces it as evidence of his (bill's) position...why?

3. Bill admits that his original claim of Clif hiring the PI to investigate Deagle's finances was incorrect, yet continues with the probing of Deagle's finances by Clif as an issue of integrity and slander on Clif's part...which is it Bill???

4. Who is this mystery person that dug up financial information on Deagle that was falsely attributed to Clif, is it true and relevant (regardless of consent)?

5. Clif's open letter states very clearly the significant problems he has with Deagle including supporting details as to why Deagle's inside information, experience, knowledge, observations & prognostications are questionable at best. Why doesn't Bill address these as he has had to do with Burish and the rest?

6. If Bill can't make sense out of his own bank account/statement, why should we trust his interpretation of esoteric, scientific, cosmic, conscious and spiritual matters?


Then, Bill's latest reply continues with:

- Clif's 'financial inquiry improprieties'

- maintains his position that Clif did something wrong,

- completly ignores the very detailed and articulate substantive issues Clif raises regarding Deagle's information which DO NOT INCLUDE FINANCES but specifically deal with the information B&K get from Deagle,

- ignores the multitude of posts from members here regarding their own issues/concerns about Deagle including detailed and informative posts/questions from myself and skjted,

- continues with his undaunting support of Deagle as a 'good man with a good heart' with a feel good story,

- then, arrogantly, suggests that Clif should 'focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers without going out of his way to denigrate them publicly,' the last part of which Camelot should be doing more of themselves which possibly could mitigate the strange and curious fueds, exits and excuses/ass coverings that B&K have been doing more of the last 6 months than anything else.

Gotta say, I've had enough of the obfuscation from Bill on this. Coupled with the disasters of Burish, Deagle, Deacon, Jane, et al, and the wealth of much better and professional investigative/whistleblowing/research/interviews that are available, it's time for this mind to move along and not waste precious focus and energy on what once was Camelot but now is sadly 'CameNot.'

You will know them by their words and judge them by their actions...

Peace,

YinYangMind