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08-02-2009, 07:39 PM | #251 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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Urine, in all these sytems, is simply piped to the garden, that is a very simple job. Handwashing grey water is piped to the same source as the urine, providing the dilution, though some plants, such as comfrey, will take concentrated waste water with no difficulty. Biogas seems like a good idea, but it is is not so simple in reality. In china they just make enough methane if they compost all vegetable and food matter AND garden compost as well as faecal material AND have a pig, with pig wastes entered into the same system. Otherwise there is simply too little methane to make the system viable. Although not always possible, wood is the best fuel for cooking and heating, and the ash is so useful for treating the composted material. Also with biogas you need a large storage area, if you can even consider this sort of storage size then compost toilet space will be easily achieved. VM Last edited by Vidya Moksha; 08-02-2009 at 07:45 PM. |
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08-02-2009, 07:53 PM | #252 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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All the best! Last edited by artvision; 08-02-2009 at 07:55 PM. |
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08-02-2009, 08:16 PM | #253 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
I have a great book(everyone who knows me knows I have a book on Everything!!!). Anyway this book is called "The Humanure Handbook" by Joseph Jenkins. Its fabulous (if any book on poos can be fabulous!)Covers all aspects of dealing with human waste by a person who has been using these systems for years. Told with knowledge and humour.
Cheers Carmen |
08-02-2009, 08:16 PM | #254 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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However, the principle is extremely simple, let me see if I can describe the basic design. if you need more let me know. Imagine 2 cubes next to each other, say a nominal 1 metre cube. On the upper surface of each cube cut a hole, upon which one toilet will sit. The other hole is capped for now. Now create an entrance to the cubes on the front faces of each cube, this is the access to empty the compost. Employ a door to this entrance, and try and make it air tight to prevent flies getting in. (it can be siliconed, access is once per year!) Use one cube until it is full, then switch the toilet and the cap over. That's the entire concept. However! both cubes need to be vented in some way (with vent pipes capped against rainwater and screened against flies). Also urine needs to be separated, either by employing a separate urinal (some urine in the solid box is ok)..or by understanding that both men and women defecate backwards and urinate forwards, so various collectors/splitters can be devised. Of course, above the cubes u need a roof, either a tarp/sheet/tent structure or a constructed super structure. I built a shower/bath and toilet system in the same block. It is better NOT to dig into the ground but to rest the cubes on the ground and build up around them, so the entrance needs to be from a raised level or steps have to be climbed. Its very simple.. VM |
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08-02-2009, 08:24 PM | #255 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
I forgot, i posted one already lol, in my album called zonca
this is a toilet with a view! No roof, but hey, what a view. The square toilet sits on a hollow stone column that is about 10m high, this toilet never needs emptying. |
08-02-2009, 08:34 PM | #256 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
What a great toilet, one with a view!! thanks Vidya
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08-02-2009, 08:48 PM | #257 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
humanurehandbook.com
Here is the website where you can read the book Carmen recommended online. (The Humanure Handbook by Joseph Jenkins) Interesting, well worth reading. Good for a starter system until something more sophisticated is put in place. |
08-02-2009, 09:01 PM | #258 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
And I forgot to mention in the previous post: watch the videos (left margin on web page) humanurehandbook.com/video
Lots of good info here also. |
08-02-2009, 09:06 PM | #259 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
Sorry to harp on about such a delicate subject but to me its vitally important. We are so used to getting "rid' of our own waste without any thought of where it goes and what it is doing to the environment. Another excellent book on the subject of humane waste, uses and pollution is "Solviva" The author makes a great point that sewage systems are the biggest polluters in our environment and have ruined the foreshore around where she lived at Martha's Vineyard. Whether that is still the case I do not know, but her pics in the book were very revealing. Joseph Jenkins has a term called 'fecalphobia',. We need to deal sensibly with this tendency in us. Its about responsiblilty of dealing with the effects of our so called civilized living.
Cheers Carmen |
08-02-2009, 09:11 PM | #260 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
I have worked as a marine biologist for over 20 years and sewage pollution is the biggest problem I have to deal with. We take 2 items essential for life (water and fertilizer) and we mix them together to form a poison. Its crazy, really crazy. Composting toilets should be compulsory and anyone professing to be environmentally aware should not be using a water toilet.
Of course we now have another crazy problem, the faecal material is actually a food source to many organisms, especially worms. Birds eat worms. Bird poulations grow, In the Uk the bird lobby is particularly powerful and they want to see more birds, whatever the environmental damage! lol, crazy world we live in. |
08-02-2009, 09:43 PM | #261 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/270721/Humanure-Handbook Though, we would appreciate the things tried by our fellows Avalonians, they say are working fine. |
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08-02-2009, 10:04 PM | #262 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
Hi Northern Santuary,
This may sound ignorant, but would there be some odd smell cooking with methane? Natural gas is essential methane; it's colorless and odorless. It's the hydrogen sulfate compounds that give the rotten egg smell, if it exists. Vidya, your picture is worth a thousand words. By myself, I was using that (a toilet seat on top of a hole in the ground), but for 40 people it's a bigger problem. The biogas digester can be made to work in a commuity; I'll have to investigate it, but some forum people here have the know how. /NS |
08-02-2009, 10:14 PM | #263 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
Biogas reclamation is by no means hard; you just have to know what you're doing and make sure the calculations are correct. It also helps if you have the space as well as a population to feed it.
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08-02-2009, 10:16 PM | #264 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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With so many people a compost sytem would work really well. I had originally thought to use the compost on my farm, but was amazed just how little volume it produced. I would think with 40 people the construction of a toilet block would be particularly easy. Just double the bins in each cubicle. So for example, in one block have 3 toilets, thats 6 bins, 3 active, 3 in storage. As a rule of thumb it will take 6 people 1 year to fill one 1m3 collector. Asuming half male and female (if you want to separate the block) then 2 toilet blocks each with 3 toilets (6 bins) would be about right (you need a year really for the compost to activate, unless you employ solar collectors). This would rquire a structure 6 m long and at least 1m deep, not such a big structure really. Of couse several smaller units could be used, but 40 people would work best with 6 toilets. |
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08-02-2009, 11:10 PM | #265 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
Hi Vidya,
This is in Canada, so there is the cold if you go outside. Most of the people are coming from the city, so prefer access from their own units (if it is a family unit). I was thinking of using a duel low flush toilet system (6 /3 pints) or separating the urine out completely. There will also be vegetable compost going into the digester, so should be able to enhance the slush consistency, also temperature control (insulated and heated) for optimum production. /NS |
08-02-2009, 11:44 PM | #266 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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http://humanurehandbook.com/videos.html Cheers Carmen Last edited by Carmen; 08-02-2009 at 11:47 PM. |
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08-03-2009, 01:42 AM | #267 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
TtC: Biogas reclamation is by no means hard; you just have to know what you're doing and make sure the calculations are correct. It also helps if you have the space as well as a population to feed it.
Do you see that this is feasible with "flushable toilets", or is it a carry and dump type of a situation. There are 1 pint flush toilets, but it's limited to how far the water can carry the waste. The alternative would be to sit on top of the digester. /NS |
08-03-2009, 01:57 AM | #268 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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08-03-2009, 02:30 AM | #269 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
TtC:It's extremely feasible with flush toilets. I did a fully integrated system for an apartment complex in Canada back about three years ago. Worked wonders, too. I've made adjustments since then, and have an even better one now.
A lot of city people will be happy to hear that. From the info I read, this is related to the required retention period for the waste to stay in the digester to carry out the process and the needed size of the container to do that. /NS |
08-03-2009, 04:53 AM | #270 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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08-03-2009, 10:13 AM | #271 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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The digester should work also, but more complicated, more expensive, not a passive system (will need maintenance), produces a toxic sludge...but gives you methane. If you have a ready supply of tree wood (forest garden anyone?) then I wouldnt even consider the digester. Keep it simple, keep it cheap, always a good mantra when building. |
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08-03-2009, 11:58 AM | #272 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
Vidya:Keep it simple, keep it cheap, always a good mantra when building
Keeping it simple is good too. Here's a commercial product of what I think you're talking about, but I couldn't believe it is close to $1000 CAN. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007...oop_on_com.php I didn't understand why the digester output would be toxic. |
08-03-2009, 01:03 PM | #273 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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I would always build my own toilet, its simple woodwork, or simple wood and brick work. I wouldnt buy any commercial products - but thats just me. Dont collect urine, it needs to be a passive process (it's fun for a while then its just another chore, when there is much more to do!), pipe it to the garden directly. For a year or so, while I was building up my farm, I just used a plank of wood with a hole cut in it over a bucket. It wasnt laziness that it wasnt upgraded, but usefulness. We would plan out our tree planting and dig a 1 m hole, half fill with the bucket contents and then with soil, and then plant a tree on top. Simple, incredibly cheap and most effective/ useful. Wood ash negates all smell. I only ended up building up the toilet block for the indoor shower/bath option. |
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08-03-2009, 05:05 PM | #274 | |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
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Large quantities of waste, human or otherwise, have been know to produce H2S (hydrogen sulfide gas) which is extremely dangerous. I used to have to wear a detector in sour gas plants for just such a reason. H2S is colorless, odorless, and a little heavier than air, so short people suffocate first. It's supposed to be like going to sleep. I even designed an extraction process so H2S could be removed from the methane for cooking and heating on biomass reclamation units. It's about 98% efficient and doesn't take up too much space. |
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08-03-2009, 05:41 PM | #275 |
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Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
i have a property, i need to get out of in canada
it needs a little work, so, i can maximize my profits getting out then, i'd have money - lots of it to create a radiant zone, here in canada and/or align with the project in PQ (or do both) or, perhaps, consider another alternative if anyone is at lose ends - and, has skills for renos (floors/painting - simple stuff) and, need a place in canada, to run to, this could be a good option for them [ solicitation is not permitted here, so the bulk of the post has been removed if you want to help Susan contact her at workingwonders@aol.com - A.. ] Last edited by Anchor; 08-05-2009 at 12:53 PM. |
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