The Mother Of All Frauds

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz

I like the new layout, it should help in keeping the areas straight in where we should be posting.

Now that the agreement is being reviewed, what is everyone thinking?

Does anyone think it will ever pass, I see the trenches building already.

Much of what I was thinking to make it viable is already agreed upon...

World markets are ruffled seeing it isn't a blanket bailout covering them too...

I am sure it will pass, with the appearance of compromise, which will be meaningless, because the net effect - fascist control of the economy by the exective - will have been achieved. And the bill will deepen and lengthen the economic troubles, which will lead to more centralization, etc... just as the Patriot Act, also passed because of misguided fear, led to more unconstitutional legislation. Paulson and Bernanke told Congress that trouble was imminent if they didn't pass this bill quickly. This has been interpreted as a warning. Not true! It was a threat, because the Fed, at the behest of the administration, is the root cause of the problem, and can pull the trigger to worsen it if it so chooses, by artificial manipulation of fiat money and interest rates. Any American who thinks that this act of treason will benefit them in the short, medium, or long term is deluding themselves.

Originally Posted by RaKaR

Hi Rocky_Shorz,

I don' t think there is much wrong about socialism or rather a social oriented policy, as long as it remains righteous, open and in the best interests of the People.

What should actually matter is the agenda behind the steps being mentioned.

Do you know something about that?

Regards,

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

Therin lies the central problem R. The agenda is is to destroy the dollar and the middle class of America along with it, while simultaneously turning the nation into a fascist state. Memorize the Constitution now because soon it will exist only in memory.

[RaKaR]

Hello Zarathustra,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this matter.
Well, i guess it is up to the People to stand up now. And We are The People!

Regards,

RakaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by RaKaR

Hello Zarathustra,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this matter.
Well, i guess it is up to the People to stand up now. And We are The People!

Regards,

RakaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

Amen

[GenerationIke]

Shall we make the tea Earl Gray? I'm DEFINITELY ALL FOR another American Revolution. And I'll be your Patrick Henry. As for me and my house, "Give me Liberty or give me death!" My grandparents came over here with nothing and struggled here for years. I honor them by stepping up to take this country back for the next generations they came here to give freedom to.

I am totally and completely disgusted with what has happened. How many of you saw former President Clinton on the daily show with Jon Stewart. I don't think I've seen anyone so pi$$ed off and so ready to shout from the rooftops about how badly we have been abused by this administration. Even though many have stuff against him and Hillary, too.

I also watched Oprah's show with Suze Orman. And that woman could hardly contain her anger either. She got down and dirty and told the people like it was. It is time for us to stop our spending and start living within our means. And she said it to the audience,"what THIS United States government did to You!" She made no bones about it.

Both were very good shows, if you can, catch either one on the net.

http://www.comedycentral.com/

http://www.oprah.com/index (tues show Sept 23)

[eugene_vn]

Even before any congressional deal has been made, details are already starting to emerge of behind-the-scenes activities by the Fed and the major banks to help themselves to major heaps of cash. This just in from Elliott Wave International:

http://www.elliottwave.com/freeupdates/archives/2008/09/24/$138-Billion----Just-Inferences,-We-Hope.aspx:

$138 Billion -- Just Inferences, We Hope
Lehman, J.P. Morgan, The Fed and Citi (and $138 billion)



By Robert Folsom
Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:30:00 ET Email | Print | RSS | My Updates Bookmark and share It!





It may seem like a long time ago, but it was only Monday of last week (Sept. 15) that Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy; the equally big news was that the Federal Reserve declined to bail Lehman out.



I've read several details regarding Lehman's demise and learned some interesting facts. The bankruptcy filing was "pre-dawn" on the 15th, according to Bloomberg. The filing document is available in pdf form on the internet: it names Lehman's largest unsecured creditors, and the dollar amounts of their claims.



"Citibank, N.A., as indenture trustee" is listed as Lehman's largest unsecured creditor, with a claim of "Approximately $138 billion" in "Bond Debt."



Following Lehman's filing, J.P. Morgan transferred $138 billion in two payments to Lehman Brothers -- $87 billion on Sept. 15th and $51 billion on Sept. 16th. Bloomberg reported that the transfer of funds was "keep financial markets stable," and to settle Lehman's "securities transactions with customers...and clearance parties, according the [court] filing."



After these transfers, also according to Bloomberg, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York made two subsequent payments to J.P. Morgan: $87 billion on Sept. 15th and $51 billion on Sept. 16th, for a total of $138 billion.



Lehman's bankruptcy court filing said that J.P. Morgan's $138 billion transfer to Lehman was "At the request of... the Federal Reserve Bank of New York." I have not been able to find an explanation -- in media reports or from the Federal Reserve -- of why J.P. Morgan needed to be a party to the $138 that Lehman received, and that the Fed transferred.



I'm also unable to find an announcement from the Fed that it was making the transfer.



One could infer that J.P. Morgan was used as a third party in order to avoid the perception that the Fed was assuming $138 billion in obligations that were in default upon Lehman's bankruptcy -- despite the Fed's statements regarding not bailing out Lehman



Once could also infer that such an action by the Fed was specifically a $138 billion bailout of Citibank, which was the dollar value of the Lehman-issued bonds Citibank held. Citibank issued a Sept. 15 press release saying that its "role in this issue is administrative in nature and does represent exposure for Citi to Lehman." The statement did not identify who or what owned the $138 billion in bonds.



I hope that more facts become available showing that the inferences are mistaken, and I invite journalists and others to bring any such relevant facts to light.

[Zarathustra]

The criminals are looting everything they can before the fire they set consumes the house..

[Zarathustra]

Bailout Could Deepen Crisis, CBO Chief Says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?nav=hcmodule

[Triggerpull29]

This **** sickens me. I don't know how we can revolt against this totalitarianism. I think the general populace is too ignorant to be willing to join a revolution, so the next option is to leave the country? I'd like to move to a country that has something similar to the rights given under the constitution but i've no knowledge on foreign countries.

[Zarathustra]

White House Admits It Drew Up Bailout Months Ago
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.co...p-bailout.html

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Contactee77

the entire bailout plan is a pump and dump plan...period....


It is headed by a group of neocon/nazi lunatics led by bush family with ties to the clinton's/fed reserve banksters & includes most of the bribed congress....all of which are hell bent on enslaving the people & children of the us


wake up
wake up
wake up

yes

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by Love/Light 13

It is obvious that the world is done with the dollar. China, Russia, and probably most of Europe for that matter are sick of dealing with US demands over the past 200 years. anything resembling the gold standard would be a step in the right direction.

Anyone read David Wilcock's new post on divinecosmos.com? He states that August 16th was significant because the Russian military seized a truck loaded with Rothschild/Illuminati documents. Wilcock states that the documents included code keys to a plethera of information.

Z or Questiny....have you heard anything on this?


also, not sure about the oil idea at all.........lets get off the oil addiction in every sense of the imagination!!

Why doesn't someone seize all the assets of the Bilderberg's, Rothschild's & Illuminati, as well as the gangsters running the Federal Reserve - they caused the mess - make them clean it up!

[Rocky_Shorz]

Originally Posted by eugene_vn

http://www.elliottwave.com/freeupdates/archives/2008/09/24/$138-Billion----Just-Inferences,-We-Hope.aspx:

$138 Billion -- Just Inferences, We Hope
Lehman, J.P. Morgan, The Fed and Citi (and $138 billion)

By Robert Folsom
Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:30:00 ET Email | Print | RSS | My Updates Bookmark and share It!

It may seem like a long time ago, but it was only Monday of last week (Sept. 15) that Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy; the equally big news was that the Federal Reserve declined to bail Lehman out.

I've read several details regarding Lehman's demise and learned some interesting facts. The bankruptcy filing was "pre-dawn" on the 15th, according to Bloomberg. The filing document is available in pdf form on the internet: it names Lehman's largest unsecured creditors, and the dollar amounts of their claims.

After these transfers, also according to Bloomberg, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York made two subsequent payments to J.P. Morgan: $87 billion on Sept. 15th and $51 billion on Sept. 16th, for a total of $138 billion.

Lehman's bankruptcy court filing said that J.P. Morgan's $138 billion transfer to Lehman was "At the request of... the Federal Reserve Bank of New York." I have not been able to find an explanation -- in media reports or from the Federal Reserve -- of why J.P. Morgan needed to be a party to the $138 that Lehman received, and that the Fed transferred.


I'm also unable to find an announcement from the Fed that it was making the transfer.

This might answer a few questions

Re: Who Owns the Federal Reserve?
N.M. Rothschild , London - Bank of England
______________________________________
| |
| J. Henry Schroder

| Banking | Corp.
| |
Brown, Shipley - Morgan Grenfell - Lazard - |
& Company & Company Brothers |
| | | |
--------------------| -------| | |
| | | | | |
Alex Brown - Brown Bros. - Lord Mantagu - Morgan et Cie -- Lazard ---|
& Son | Harriman Norman | Paris Bros |
| | / | N.Y. |
| | | | | |
| Governor, Bank | J.P. Morgan Co -- Lazard ---|
| of England / N.Y. Morgan Freres |
| 1924-1938 / Guaranty Co. Paris |
| / Morgan Stanley Co. | /
| / | \Schroder Bank
| / | Hamburg/Berlin
| / Drexel & Company /
| / Philadelphia /
| / /
| / Lord Airlie
| / /
| / M. M. Warburg Chmn J. Henry Schroder
| | Hamburg --------- marr. Virginia F. Ryan
| | | grand-daughter of Otto
| | | Kahn of Kuhn Loeb Co.
| | |
| | |
Lehman Brothers N.Y -------------- Kuhn Loeb Co. N. Y.
| | --------------------------
µ
| | | |
8
| | | |
Lehman Brothers - Mont. Alabama Solomon Loeb Abraham Kuhn
| | __|______________________|_________
Lehman-Stern, New Orleans Jacob Schiff/Theresa Loeb Nina Loeb/Paul Warburg
------------------------- | | |
| | Mortimer Schiff James Paul Warburg
_____________|_______________/ |
| | | | |
Mayer Lehman | Emmanuel Lehman \
| | | \
Herbert Lehman Irving Lehman \
| | | \
Arthur Lehman \ Phillip Lehman John Schiff/Edith Brevoort Baker
/ | Present Chairman Lehman Bros
/ Robert Owen Lehman Kuhn Loeb - Granddaughter of
/ | George F. Baker
| / |
| / |
| / Lehman Bros Kuhn Loeb (1980)
| / |
| / Thomas Fortune Ryan
| | |

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Anasazi

Why doesn't someone seize all the assets of the Bilderberg's, Rothschild's & Illuminati, as well as the gangsters running the Federal Reserve - they caused the mess - make them clean it up!

TPTB are afraid of that very thing happening, that's what make them paticularly dangerous right now. This is a situation we must pass through, because they are an enemy that can never be mollified, they must be confronted sooner or later.

[Zarathustra]

Prestigious Group of 192 Economists - Including Nobel Prize Winners - Slams Bailout

http://www.prisonplanet.com/prestigi...s-bailout.html


The Dallas Federal Reserve Bank President, Former Treasury Secretary, Head of the Congressional Budget Office and Leading Economists All Slam Bailout

http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-dall...m-bailout.html

[RaKaR]

Hi GenerationIke,

I completely agree with your view.
We are Co-creators, we can change ourselves and the World, for the Reality is but what we choose, decide, think and do/or refrain from doin.
What is once done, could also be undone.

Thanks for the links - truly to the point!

Regards to the Noble Lady Semjase.

Salome.
RaKaR
futureofmankind.co.uk

[Rocky_Shorz]

http://money.cnn.com/data/world_markets/index.html

US Down 777 - World Markets down 4-8% so far, Russian Market doesn't open for hours...

[peaceandlove]

The 700 Billion dollar bailout is a nefarious number, most predictions are it will be closer to 2 Trillion or more.

This was a comment posted at Ron Paul's campaignforliberty.com website today. The new and improved campaignforliberty.com debuts tomorrow. Check it out.

Ron Paul introduced a bill back in June to abolish the Fed. You can search for a copy of it on his website: campaignforliberty.com

COMMENT:
EVERYONE LISTEN UP THE VOTE IS MEANINGLESS. THE FED DOES NOT NEED CONGRESS' APPROVAL. THEY STILL MADE 600 BILLION OUT OF THIN AIR TODAY. THE ONLY THING TO STOP THE FED IS TO ABOLISH IT. IN APRIL 2008 GWB GAVE THE FED TOTAL CONTROLL OVER ALL MONETARY POLICY. WE LOST OUR FREEDOM IN APRIL. SITE MANAGER TELL THESE PEOPLE THE TRUTH. THIS VOTE DOES NOT MEAN A THING. HERE IS A LINK IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME. http://www.jbs.org/index.php/jbs-new...ederal-reserve STOP BEING SHEEP.

[lucrum]

Originally Posted by peaceandlove

COMMENT:
EVERYONE LISTEN UP THE VOTE IS MEANINGLESS. THE FED DOES NOT NEED CONGRESS' APPROVAL. THEY STILL MADE 600 BILLION OUT OF THIN AIR TODAY. THE ONLY THING TO STOP THE FED IS TO ABOLISH IT. IN APRIL 2008 GWB GAVE THE FED TOTAL CONTROLL OVER ALL MONETARY POLICY. WE LOST OUR FREEDOM IN APRIL. SITE MANAGER TELL THESE PEOPLE THE TRUTH. THIS VOTE DOES NOT MEAN A THING. HERE IS A LINK IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME. http://www.jbs.org/index.php/jbs-new...ederal-reserve STOP BEING SHEEP.

Would be even better if the link didn't produce a 404

[Rocky_Shorz]

Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz

Well remember, each dollar a bank has, can turn into 9 x as much in loans, for a bank to hold a bad mortgage, they have to put money aside in reserve to cover it, which takes away 9 times as much in loan capability, that is why they are willing to dump short sales quick at a 65% loss.

If they sell off these loans to the treasury which pays 35% of what the home is worth, once the market swings back up, it can be sold for double quite easily turning into a profit to cover the original expense.

The money has dried up for buyers to get homes, which is crashing the value of home prices, in San Diego, our Medium has dropped 38% since last year.

Without money banks would have to raise rates so home prices would have to drop even further for them to be affordable in today's market.

Did anyone hear they quietly changed this rule, banks are no longer required to set aside money to cover the whole loan...

They think this one change alone will be enough to keep the banks afloat...

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz

Did anyone hear they quietly changed this rule, banks are no longer required to set aside money to cover the whole loan...

They think this one change alone will be enough to keep the banks afloat...

A provision of Paulson's swindle, er, plan is to allow banks to reduce their reserve requirement to 0%

[Rocky_Shorz]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

A provision of Paulson's swindle, er, plan is to allow banks to reduce their reserve requirement to 0%

Well that frees 10 times the money of each loan...

I can understand him doing it on the HELOCs, because until the housing market turns around, they are worth nothing. The HELOCs bad paper should be handed over to the Treasury for 5 cents on the dollar, to hold until the market turns around.

So would bailing out each bank be better than just freeing their credit?

for each Nickel these are sold for to the Treasury, the bank can loan 9 times as much, so they instantly recover 50% of what they just lost...

I think this is a pretty quick way to get the wheel turning again.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz

Well that frees 10 times the money of each loan...

I can understand him doing it on the HELOCs, because until the housing market turns around, they are worth nothing. The HELOCs bad paper should be handed over to the Treasury for 5 cents on the dollar, to hold until the market turns around.

So would bailing out each bank be better than just freeing their credit?

for each Nickel these are sold for to the Treasury, the bank can loan 9 times as much, so they instantly recover 50% of what they just lost...

I think this is a pretty quick way to get the wheel turning again.

Remember, the Fed has pumped 1.2 trillion into the banking system in the last few days. This legislation is not about the money, at least in terms of helping credit flow. If that were the case the Fed's latest injection would have done the trick. The treasury even admitted that they pulled the $700 billion figure out of thin air. It's about a fascist power grab, one purpose of which is to cover up criminal activity under the "cover of darkness", the other to further consolidate the unitary executive, install fascist economic controls, debase further the balance of the legislative branch, pay off the elite financial illuminists before the real crash of the derivitave and CDS markets (which will be unstoppable with cash injection, since they total over a quadrillion dollars), and as a byproduct the further destruction of the value of the dollar.

We can't get to caught up in the ineffectiveness of the legislation to deal with the credit crunch, because then we take our eye off the bigger picture - this is an unconstitutional fascist power grab!

[Rocky_Shorz]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Remember, the Fed has pumped 1.2 trillion into the banking system in the last few days. This legislation is not about the money, at least in terms of helping credit flow. If that were the case the Fed's latest injection would have done the trick. The treasury even admitted that they pulled the $700 billion figure out of thin air. It's about a fascist power grab, one purpose of which is to cover up criminal activity under the "cover of darkness", the other to further consolidate the unitary executive, install fascist economic controls, debase further the balance of the legislative branch, pay off the elite financial illuminists before the real crash of the derivitave and CDS markets (which will be unstoppable with cash injection, since they total over a quadrillion dollars), and as a byproduct the further destruction of the value of the dollar.

We can't get to caught up in the ineffectiveness of the legislation to deal with the credit crunch, because then we take our eye off the bigger picture - this is an unconstitutional fascist power grab!

France just retracted their earlier statement...

I'm curious, did they buy stock to inject cash into the system yesterday, or just toss it up in the air to see where it lands?

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz

France just retracted their earlier statement...

I'm curious, did they buy stock to inject cash into the system yesterday, or just toss it up in the air to see where it lands?

R,

Which statement did France retract?

[Waterman]

Hey guys have you called the congress today?