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11-19-2008, 04:11 PM | #26 | ||
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
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It may be a cr-p shoot if you pick anyone at random to see whether that person is progressing or regressing but if someone is attempting to progress you can be pretty sure they are in some way or another at least as far as they are able, and who can do more than that. It is not that the personality evolves so much as the spirit; the personality lives and dies. It serves spirit and Source in evolution or it does not. The spirit evolves via the personalities that it houses throughout its evolution. The personality has only one short lifespan in which to evolve; spirit has a near eternity. I've had to revise my ideas of families coming together again in other lives -- a popular interpretation made more so by writers like Shirley Maclaine, whose books I nonetheless enjoyed. It is not so much the physical personalities as these are so dependent on the parental DNA and genes, as it is a spiritual family, the spirit personalities of which are forever evolving and growing, and IMO are merely rudimentary at present. These spirit "identities" or "individuals" may come together but the personalities they express through will depend upon: inherited traits from the new physical DNA and genetics; environment and upbringing, including experiences; and influences spirit may have on these, which will depend upon how receptive the personality is to the promptings, ideas, inspirations, frequencies, and "nudging" of spirit. There are beings on other levels, but between lives there are no people, which may be why you "have not seen any truly benevolent beings in the between lives". The earth personalities die at death. The consciousness remains for a while as it is absorbed and integrated into spirit, but it would IMO be in error to refer to this as a personality. I know Sylvia Browne and a myriad of others would disagree, and I used to share their views, but I must be true to the reality I experienced. Death is different, and when you think about it it is also logically so. Why would a personality survive death only to disappear upon reincarnation? We know the new life is inherited from the new parents and their DNA and genetics. Science quite categorically has proven it so. Even the Buddha said each personality is quite different in the next incarnation. This always left me wondering, "What is it then that reincarnates?" And it is: the spirit, individuated spirit. It is very natural for human beings to think of life after death as a continuation of themselves in some form, but every person will surely die and end, and the spirit will house a completely different personality next time. The closest we can come to reincarnating again is to ally ourselves with our individuated spirit as far as possible and in that reincarnate; but the human being always tends to imagine this as more like herself/himself than spirit because we are so removed from spirit which is essentially an indescribable integrated frequency of love, knowledge, intelligence, wisdom, goodness etc which is reflected in humanity. My spirit, for example, upon my death will integrate all my experiences into its frequency: all the experiences, all the knowledge, all the thoughts, actions and interests will all be noted and integrated, though it will only "take" that which furthers its evolution. All else is so much fluff that is just left (what I had for breakfast six weeks ago, unless that was somehow very significant, which I don't recall it was). This will all be added to its storehouse from all its previous incarnations that are already thoroughly integrated into an inviolable whole. When this process of my integration into my individuated spirit is complete the spirit's next incarnation can begin. "I" in as much as "I" exist -- and it will not be as a personality -- will just be another integrated component of the individuated spirit as it progresses along its evolutionary path. In a future incarnation spirit may provide the usage of any of its aspects from its last life (mine) or any aspect or aspects of any life before that for the new personality in order for spirit to further develop; it is, however, more likely to do this in a completely integrated fashion, rather than in terms of specific lifetimes. It has, after all, been thoroughly integrated into a coherent whole, assuming it had the necessary time to assimilate everything, which is rarely the case with our intensely overpopulated world continually calling on spirits to incarnate into new life forms ASAP. Quote:
If I have time I will post a thread on WingMakers Transformation. Very nice talking with you Gnosis5. Chris |
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11-19-2008, 05:34 PM | #27 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
Thank you all for your help on this. I have much to learn...and appearantly no linear time to do it in. For anyone interested in learning more about this, like me, is there a source with which further study can be accomplished? Any links are greatly appreciated!
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11-19-2008, 07:02 PM | #28 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
Hi wilsonericq7 and all,
You might find interest in a book titled "Life before Life" by Helen Wambach. As a clinical psychologist in the 1970s she regressed hundreds of people, sometimes in large groups, to probe the soul memory of life before this life..... before entering the womb again to embark on the current earth sojourn. From the report of most participants in her studies, the process of re-incarnation is evidently highly organised beyond the earth plane. Wise guides assist souls to identify and surrender to the (karmic) necessity of meeting past relationships in the proposed new incarnation. Karmic ties determine a soul's magnetic attraction to a particular family. This can include love or revulsion which is predicated on past experiences together. Various themes were gleaned from the regression experience. Participants in the study reported that their new parents and siblings once played different familial roles in previous lives. ie, the proposed mother was once a sister or wife. The brother was once the father or husband or friend or enemy....etc. Souls seem to re-incarnate in groups until they can learn tolerance and love for each other. Some couldn't wait to join loved ones while others were filled with trepidation at the prospect of a new incarnation in the proposed family. It seems we all surrender to the necessity of a responsibility and work that must be accomplished. And of course this includes all the other souls we will interact with in a more than casual way. For some souls, strong negative emotions (the scars of the past) bring them together repeatedly throughout the ages. For others it is a mutual friendship built on common cause. ie, two people perhaps in the same field of service drawn together over and again. Most families are a mixture of both of these kinds of relationships and so are friendships. Dr Wabach's studies resonated with me long before i had similar memories to those reported by her subjects. My mum has been my mother several times and so has my father. My son was once a friend. These are the nuts and bolts of our sojourn through the earth plane. The law is the law and each soul must fulfill it by being willing to meet the effects of our own actions. Cause and effect is the law of karma and we usually reap a mixture of sweet and bitter fruit. Don't we know it. However, we can meet our karma and karmic relationships under the guidance and inspiration of the inner-Christ. That is how we fulfill all things and transcend the rounds of karma and re-incarnation... "nevermore to go out or in". Last edited by milk and honey; 11-20-2008 at 04:02 PM. |
11-19-2008, 07:57 PM | #29 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
Hi wilsonericq7 & all
Very interesting thread with tremendous amounts of thoughtful posts. wilsonericq7, along the same lines as the book mentioned by milk and honey, you might look into Michael Newton's "Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls". Both books are filled with past-life regression accounts, with detailed analysis too. I've re-read them both several times, and each time I gain some new insight. Also, I've had several past-life regression/life-between-life sessions from a hypnotherapist trained by MN. I highly recommend it - my view of all things pertaining to life here on earth and in the spirit realms has been validated and expanded... Alloura |
11-19-2008, 09:08 PM | #30 | |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
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*A moon based container that traps the souls who decide to joint the light at the end of the tunnel shortly after the separation from the body. Thanks. -feeler |
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11-19-2008, 09:34 PM | #31 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
H. Charles Berner's "Manual for guiding a person through the after death experience"- http://www.charlesberner.org/Tibet_Book_Dead_web.pdf, although somewhat poetic, gives quite a good account of the sequence of the "after death experience". During regressions people go through the upsets (of separations), problems, done/not done, then dichotomies of good/bad, love/hate, ..., you name it, of the life they leave behind, and the energy fields (colors, sounds, emotions, ...) manifest as the person releases from them and from that maze called the mind which contains identities, guides, entities, etc, some hostile, some helpfull. It's very interesting actually.
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11-19-2008, 10:47 PM | #32 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
Wow, lots of info to digest. I can't understand why WE can't remember our past experiences / lifetimes here on this planet, without regression techniques? I'm not trying to make things 'easier' for us to learn or correct any bad we had done in past lifetimes; but thru my researching it seems as tho other being shed their 'containers' and can remember themselves--they just start in a new 'container'. What is so different about us especially if we are reincarnating many times???
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11-19-2008, 10:52 PM | #33 | |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
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As soon as one finds the basis for their attraction they can no longer be trapped. Past life sessions help one to examine these incidents and change their mind about it and drop the compulsion to go and check out the pretty lights. |
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11-19-2008, 10:52 PM | #34 | |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
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11-19-2008, 10:55 PM | #35 | |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
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11-19-2008, 10:58 PM | #36 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
Hi, Chris, would you detail your transformation experience? Thank you.
Gnosis5 |
11-19-2008, 11:01 PM | #37 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
Thanks for the reply! I guess I always choose NOT to remember, each time!! I sure do not remember anything...would like to have a session to see how my past has been. Have to make a mental note to know for the next life!
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11-20-2008, 02:49 AM | #38 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
Many replies, which did not have time to read, so I will simply answer from my own experience:
There is no set limit in years between each incarnation, even the idea is absurd as time do not exist on the spiritual planes, and a person can basically be reborn as soon as he dies. However normally a person do not get reincarnated that soon but spend some time in the lower astral planes for a while, some ascend further up, and some are never reincarnated. Some only reincarnate a part of themselves, a soul fragment. For further information on the last part, please check my thread at http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=6337 where I explain this concept in depth and I think you may find it quite interesting in regards of your research. I also explain there how several people claiming to be the reincarnation of the same past person can in fact all be correct about it. Peace profound, -EA |
11-20-2008, 10:31 AM | #39 | |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
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Why stick around? My same gripe with "ghosts". Further more, if this universe is waiting a cold dark death, in a couple of gazillions ofbillions of years, when the suns have burned out, where will the reincarnations continue? |
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11-20-2008, 01:44 PM | #40 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
In almost all cases people do not "chose" to be reincarnated, they are so because they are trapped here. The major point of spiritual development is to understand this and be able to be free and ascend to higher realms of existence. But the majority of people are clueless when it comes to their own being and they are constantly filled with lies and deceit by the religious institutions and so on.
I will now move on to talk about Ghosts, as they relate to why people are stuck here just like the Ghosts themselves are. In this case, I assume you are talking about Ghosts as the Spirit of passed people. These people, or Ghosts, exist on a lower level of the astral realm very close to this physical one and they are for the most part trapped there due to various reasons. Some of the reasons are that they are not aware of being dead, or they do not know where to go, they are lost and have no one to help them getting further, or they are trying desperately to contact their family and loved ones and so on and thus keep stuck here on the lower plane. In some instances a Ghost can manifest and be physically visible, this is done through harnessing the energies in the environment around it when it find itself here in the physical plane as an energy form. It can gather the molecules around it energetically so that they are structured around the shape of the Ghost and thus become more dense and visible by light. Some emit energy in the form of light and thus become visible, but the same principle applies of structuring molecules around its energy core which this light is emitted through. An interesting thing about Ghosts is that they can exist and manifest even after their soul have gone further, or been reincarnated. This is due to the different layers of our beings, and sometimes an outer shell of energy is left which functions as a sort of imprint in its environment after its "occupant" has left. Thus you have the "repeater ghosts" which simply appear and do the same action over every time they are observed, almost mechanically. This is the energetic shell left over of the original "person" after he passed further from the lower plane, and this shell has its own limited sort of consciousness directly connected to its original "occupant". This makes it appear and act as the original person, and sometimes enough consciousness is left over to even communicate some with such an entity, and this often leads to people thinking they are in contact with their dead family members and so on, while in reality the "true" person has already left and gone elsewhere to other realms of existence, and they are merely in contact with a "shadow copy" of the true person. Eventually this shell, or shadow copy, whatever you want to call it, will wear out its energy and dissolve into the Spirit, or the Ether as it has been called, which is the energy field the realm it exists withing consists of. In some cases, these "shells" can be entered by other entities, and thus they can keep it "alive" for a longer period of time and also pretend to be the original person and trick people that get in contact with it. This would in a sense be similar to how a physical body can be possessed by a spirit entity, except you have a spirit body - the shell - being possessed by another spirit entity. While all this happens, the Original Person, would find himself in one of several scenarios: Either he has been reincarnated and entered a new physical body, he is traveling around in the lower astral realms with his astral body, or he has ascended to higher astral realms and continue his existence and new experiences there gaining new insights and pursuing his new Life as an ascended being. Most people, due to their lack of spiritual knowledge and understanding, find themselves in the lower astral planes after death in a form where they are what we can call "lost ghosts" as explained above. And this is the important part - our lives here are really a preparation for death, and we should do our best to gain as much understanding about the after life we can before we enter it so we will know what to expect and what to do once there. Most religions are completely off here and are responsible of many problems for people passing over - buddhism is a good exception with guidance for the afterlife being given to the dead person. Love and blessings, Edward Alexander |
11-20-2008, 02:04 PM | #41 | |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
Quote:
You make an excellent point. I hope it won't be brushed aside and that people will give it due consideration. Reincarnation has many problems and multiple claims on famous past lives is not the least of them. Besides taking a perceived physical resemblance as an indication of reincarnation seems illogical as the mechanism for the transfer of physical traits is well understood and it is entirely ... well physical. |
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11-20-2008, 04:02 PM | #42 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
The so called problems with Reincarnation is solved by my discoveries as outlined here:
Part 1 http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...88&postcount=1 Part 2 http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...0&postcount=14 This explains how 10 people can all claim to have been Cleopatra in their previous life - and still all of them being right about it. -EA |
11-20-2008, 06:07 PM | #43 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
About time...
We can see everything around us because photons hit our retina. Our retina then sends an electrical signal to our brain which interprets that signal and reform the image. Basically, this is how we see. We know that photons travel at the speed of 300 000 km an hour. Imagine that you are looking at an object (any object) that's moving. Imagine now that at the exact moment that a photon (reflected or coming from that object) hit your retina, you begin to go back at the same speed i.e. 300 000 km an hour. What do you see then? You see the same object but it's not moving because no new photons (no new information about that object as to its shape and position) reach your retina. Imagine now that you are able to be at every coordinates in the universe i.e. your eyes can see every coordinate in the universe. What do you see? You see every object/event happening at the same time. So to me, there is no time. Only an eternal present where everything happens at the same "time". This is, I believe, how we can choose "where" and "when" to incarnate. From that "point of view", we can see what are the best conditions to incarnate taking into account what we have to learn this time around. Do I make sense? Donald Last edited by Donald; 11-20-2008 at 06:09 PM. |
11-20-2008, 08:32 PM | #44 | |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
Quote:
Obviously it also tries to confuse us before we crossover at 'death' so that our doubt and fear of the light will provoke us to shy away from it. You will find a similar attempt in Kyle Griffith's book "War in Heaven" though i don't recall if, in his cosmology, the dreaded "soul collector" is likewise found on the moon. He does suggest that the light is merely a fly trap to bring the unwary soul under the domination of the dreaded 'theocrats' so it can be forced back into incarnation... over and over again. All said, it's a pretty ambitious lie in my opinion. Another obvious problem with that is it sidesteps the real reasons for re-incarnation (which i mentioned yesterday) by substituting a mechanism of entrapment and compulsion by dark astral beings to serve their own interests -- as if it were the sole reason for re-incarnation -- rather than it being a karmic necessity of the law to balance our 'accounts' on earth through service to those we have harmed in prior relationships. Yes, either way there is compulsion. But the law compels re-incarnation for errant souls (with merciful guidance) so that we can learn our lessons and rise above our karmic necessities thereby transcending the law and the re-incarnational loop. Conversely, i'm sure most of us know, the false hierarchy re-inforces that loop by attempting to decieve us into making bad decisions (by offering us false choices in this world and the next) which keep us ignorant of the law and perpetually re-incarnating. The attempt to inculcate a fear of the spiritual light is just one of those deceptions which could convince some souls to remain in a state ignorance by poor decision making thus keeping them earth bound. I won't believe only my eyes when i cross-over but i will act on intuition with whatever appears to me. If i am being drawn from within to an irresistable light beyond i will go to it because I AM already identifying it. That is the surest way to prepare for a journey through the "far country". Even if an attempt to entrap some of us happens on the moon, the test would be nothing to fear if preparation is made. The light certainly is not to be feared. After 'death' (but preferably before) our souls can recognise the inner pull of the spiritual light beyond because first and foremost it is within and can be awakened now. That light is the captain of the ship and capable of safely navigating through the higher realms. Without it, all is darkness and confusion. Because our souls originate in the light of spirit we can know -- even now -- the magnetic attraction of the greater- Self within which is the light of spiritual being. Whether in this body or in a more subtle body beyond 'death's door', we can be powerfully drawn to that light; so we would be well served (and better servants of the light in each other) if we will cultivate a conscious awareness of it before we die. That is the message of all true spiritual teachers and all religion. As Jesus said: "The kingdom of heaven (the consciousness of God) is within you" And John wrote: "That is the true light which lighteth every man (every man-ifestation of spirit) that cometh into the world" As Buddha said to his disciple: "Oh Ananda, be ye lamps (light) unto yourselves Be of refuge to yourselves (in the light of truth within) Betake yourselves to no external refuge (the "kingdom" is within you) Hold fast to that (inner) truth as a lamp Hold fast as a refuge (within) to the truth Work out your own salvation (self-elevation) with diligence" The dark astral entities fear those of us who are connected to all that, so, in propagating false myths about the 'light' they are trying to poison our minds against a most natural union of our soul to spirit in the now. So, the idea that entrapments are employed by the false hierarchy in the physical and astral planes is obviously based on truth. But whether or not the moon is a charnel house for duped souls is not the main question is it. They're using that story to serve up a bigger lie right here on earth and that is that we should fear the light and shun it. I can safely say that knowing the interior light is the surest way to identify an objective manifestation of that same light in this world and beyond, before and after 'death'. The christ- consciousness is intelligent white light and is expressed as 7 rays through 7 open doors within us. Each chakra can be a beacon of spiritual light and an aspect of divine intelligence which can literally transform ourselves and change the world. |
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11-21-2008, 12:12 AM | #45 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
The only beings who have nothing to fear from spiritual traps are those beings who have never trapped spiritual beings and then perceived it was not optimum and then applied the incorrect "solution".
Whenever Hubby has a session where he was caught in a brightly lighted "flytrap" we find the corresponding incident where he did something similar. It is only a trap in that sense. If we all lightened up it would only be a fun game. "To the pure all things are pure" -- Jesus |
11-21-2008, 12:13 AM | #46 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
A poem from The Wingmaker's website:
Compassion Angels must be confused by war. Both sides praying for protection, yet someone always gets hurt. Someone dies. Someone cries so deep they lose their watery state. Angels must be confused by war. Who can they help? Who can they clarify? Whose mercy do they cast to the merciless? No modest scream can be heard. No stainless pain can be felt. All is clear to angels except in war. When I awoke to this truth it was from a dream I had last night. I saw two angels conversing in a field of children's spirits rising like silver smoke. The angels were fighting among themselves about which side was right and which was wrong. Who started the conflict? Suddenly, the angels stilled themselves like a stalled pendulum, and they shed their compassion to the rising smoke of souls who bore the watermark of war. They turned to me with those eyes from God's library, and all the pieces fallen were raised in unison, coupled like the breath of flames in a holy furnace. Nothing in war comes to destruction, but the illusion of separateness. I heard this spoken so clearly I could only write it down like a forged signature. I remember the compassion, mountainous, proportioned for the universe. I think a tiny fleck still sticks to me like gossamer threads from a spider's web. And now, when I think of war, I flick these threads to the entire universe, hoping they stick on others as they did me. Knitting angels and animals to the filamental grace of compassion. The reticulum of our skyward home. |
11-21-2008, 09:51 AM | #47 | |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
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milk and honey, thank you for the wonderful reply. There is also Lawrence R. Spencer's book "Alien Interview" which warns us not to go into the light. The 9 customer reviews at Amazon reveal some of the fallacies in this misinfo attempt. I asked you this tough question because I find your analysis on Miriam Delicado's interview very solid and insightful. Thank you. -feeler |
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11-21-2008, 02:52 PM | #48 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
You're very welcome feeler. I hadn't heard of "Alien Interview" but there is definately a pusch to divorce us from the wisdom teachings of the past and the adepts who gave them to us. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised if the chorus is getting louder from the pit.
I'll at least read the reviews you mentioned if not the book. And likewise, your own BS meter was well tuned on the Mirriam D thread. Thankyou 2 Last edited by milk and honey; 02-21-2009 at 06:18 PM. Reason: spell |
11-22-2008, 06:01 PM | #49 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
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11-22-2008, 06:07 PM | #50 |
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Re: Reincarnation/Timeline Question
Thank you, Chris. Moderator can delete my WingMakers thread, please.
cheers! Gnosis |
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