Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

[Mercuriel]

Originally Posted by macleodmunro

Maybe members who have got a bit of spare cash can help out more.

Sheesh - I PM'ed Bill offering to pay for One Full Year here for all of Us and I've yet to receive a reply...

Maybe if You Guys pester Him about My offer - He'll take Me up on it and have the decency to reply to Me. I know Hes busy but a week later and still no answer. Not even a No TY - Nothing...

Hmmm...

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by Mercuriel

Sheesh - I PM'ed Bill offering to pay for One Full Year here for all of Us and I've yet to receive a reply...

Maybe if You Guys pester Him about My offer - He'll take Me up on it and have the decency to reply to Me. I know Hes busy but a week later and still no answer. Not even a No TY - Nothing...

Hmmm...

Hi, Mercuriel:

Many thanks. We very much appreciate the offer. As you probably know, we left for a UFO Conference last Thursday, and have just returned last night. I personally am a couple of hundred PMs behind and have not yet seen or read your message. We were not ignoring you, and we do thank you for contacting us.

Your offer seems very generous... but we're not sure exactly what you were proposing.

The costs of running the site itself are nominal: a few hundred dollars a year at the most, with all conceivable extras. The original subscription idea, described here when we first launched the site, was for $30 per year with the forum fully accessible but read-only for non-members.

At the time most, people thought that pretty reasonable. We thought that maybe a thousand members might pay that, giving us an income, supplemented by Camelot donations, that would just about enable us to remain viable.

After this I'll post some more about the problems we're trying to solve, and the solutions we're considering. As I explained above, we're not trying to exploit anyone - this is hardly our style! - and our whole ethos is about providing information for the world that no-one can be said to own. But if we don't find a creative way of remaining viable, all our work may be forced to cease.

Very best wishes, Bill

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by Simon

So am i to understand that subscriptions paid to Avalon, for Avalon, will be used to pay for Camelot research?

Yes. The two are different divisions (for lack of a better word) of the same enterprise.

If this is the case, then it is apparent that the donations made to Camelot are all of a sudden insufficient?

Correct: they're all very much appreciated - every one, from anyone, of any amount - but when added up together they're not enough. IF we had a very wealthy donor or two (for instance), then we would be happy to make Avalon free as well. We're not trying to get rich here... we're trying to keep going.

If members are paying for a subscription to Avalon, then Avalon is where the money should be spent.

No, because without Camelot there would be no Avalon. The two are inextricably linked.

This also brings me to a question about how the money would be spent at Avalon. After the small hosting fee is paid, what will happen to the remainder of the funds?

It funds Camelot videos and research.

A further question regarding information posted at Avalon - Who owns this info once it has been posted? According to Bill, the original poster no longer owns the information once posted, so who does? Surely the official owner of the info posted by members, is the only person who can charge people to view this info.

Did I say that? I don't remember ever doing so, and it doesn't sound like anything I would have said. I have no interest in that way of thinking... it's not about ownership of anything - or insisting that anyone does NOT own anything. I don't think in terms of ownership at all, as those who know me well will testify.

I would also like to know who has been deleting my posts, and why? I have had no explanation as yet, and to the best of my knowledge, i have only posted truthful facts.

I've not had the time to follow your posts in any detail, and have not deleted any of them.

Very best wishes, Bill

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by Shellie

It seems people are confused about the nature of non-profit and for-profit. PA and PC cost money to run. The mods aren't making any money and I doubt Bill and Kerry and setting anything aside for retirement. Anyway, check out the cost of gas, hotels and plane tickets back and forth between Arizona and Vegas and Australia and Russia and the rest of Europe, and you'll get an idea of what kind of money it takes to bring us the videos they let us see.

I am only sad I am stretched so thin. Otherwise I would gladly give a handsome chunk each month.

Thanks, Shellie: this is the most concise statement so far of the problem.

Very best, Bill

[jaby]

Originally Posted by Mercuriel

Sheesh - I PM'ed Bill offering to pay for One Full Year here for all of Us
..

Cheers, mate.....

[orb]

It's no more than $65 a month for a dedicated server, and $200 a year for Vbulletin, Totalling $980 a year.

Put up a paypal link, and ask everyone to put up a donation. With 69,000 subscribers, if you get a 1 in 300 payment of $5, then you will get $1150 per year enough to cover costs. If you get 5 in 100 at $5 it is 17,500.

If you require a good hosting service for a dedicated server and any help to move it over, let me know, I can do it for free.

Edited:
The issue with the subscription is that alot of people who need the information the most do not have credit cards, for example I use a prepaid mastercard linked to my paypal, but it can be a hassle to get money on it. Not everyone has credit setups. Paypal can go against a bank account, however a monthly subscription might catch a poor person at a time the have no money in an account then costing a NSF charge. So a one off donation would allow them to maybe put $10 in their account and let paypal clear it.

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by Kris Riley

If I was to donate my time authoring the dvds, which is something I do for work. The replicating of 200 dvds with cases and labels would cost about 1500 dollars (possibly less) and it would be decent enough to sell. You might make twice as much as you payed for duplicating and printing off sales. Also the place I work for can also do the sales and mailings of dvds to people and pay the royalties to Bill & Kerry. It's all about what you would want to spend.

Thanks, Kris - this is much appreciated.

Clearly it's a good idea. There would need to be a third-party system in place, and the same goes for merchandising and other similar 'added value' ideas. But this has to be possible to set up.

John aka#404 summarized our position well on the previous page. Here it is again - with some further added thoughts as Kerry and I debate this further:

We understand all the points of view and respect them fully. We're not at all decided how best to proceed. The problem we're trying to solve is basically how to fund Camelot... Avalon costs almost nothing to host compared with the running costs of the entire Camelot enterprise.

The problem is that we're running out of money and we have to find some way of keeping afloat. Lots of people do not realize that we sell nothing, have no independent financial support, and have gone way out on very thin ice in order to do our work, all of which has been made available for free.

Camelot's research will always remain free - because no-one can own this important information, that belongs to all of humanity. That is our firm position re Camelot and will never change.

Various solutions considered:

Advertising: never.

Merchandising: yes, good idea, if everything can be handled by a third party.

DVDs/CDs: all of our videos, transcripts and audios so far would fit on maybe 10 CDs, which could be sold as a set for about $90. It sure saves a LOT of downloading... and at less than $1 per hour for watching (and keeping) this material and all it contains, has to be pretty good value.

DVDs are a slightly different (higher quality) product... maybe of our most popular videos. If we sold separate DVDs of each interview, it'd be quite a catalog - and some items might not be as popular as others.

Donate buttons: they're at the foot of all our pages, on both sites, except the forum itself. We could add them to the forum pages... but it might be a bit of a coding challenge as the forum template software is not easy to amend. Prompts that we really appreciate donations (and are dependent on them!) do make a difference, and we do fully take that point.

The Book of Camelot: we have someone who's promised they will publish anything we write... but, actually, self-publishing might be a better way to go (or simply creating an online e-book). We do have a lot to write about, and all we need is the time.

Subscriptions:

* If we charged a nominal fee for membership, the forum would always remain accessible on a read-only basis to all visitors. We'd never once considered anything different.

* Having read all comments and suggestions, we're now thinking of an extremely modest $1 per month subscription - with the option, when registering, of choosing to add-on a regular, small voluntary monthly donation.

* We're also considering ways in which members could sponsor other nominated members. (Those with a genuinely tight budget, or with no bank accounts, might somehow flag a request for support in their member profile. No shame, just practicalities that we understand.) We welcome feedback.

We think that we we implemented all of the above, it would all work and Camelot's mission could continue. We can't really know until we do it.

I'd like to state again that we fully and respect understand all members' views on this and the other thread, and the very helpful way that all these views have been expressed. We're not in any way trying to lock anyone out: but we have no other sources of funding, and we're totally reliant on some system - now outlined above - which is at once a fair response for our work and continues to make all the information available.

Very best wishes to all, Bill

[nibiru]

1) a genuine truth seeker will always seek anywhere he/she can find pieces of the puzzle to establish his/her own version of the truth...the law of attraction also works for he/she/them that profoundly and deeply in their hearts search for the real thing...when the pupil is ready the master will appear in his/her life-path...
2) there is an universal law that can be described as : Service to others-service to self... There has to be an equilibrium between both...even at sunday´s church the dish is passed to support the cause...
3) it may be that this splendid door to information might be closed for many who won´t afford it...thus making proyect avalon´s and camelot´s principal mission unavailable to many and therefore will not fulfill their cosmic task...
4) if there is a task to be fulfilled, the universe itself will load proyect avalon and camelot with the necessary abundance to fulfill...the universe itself will take care by connecting bill and kerry with the right people to gather funds for the development of both proyects ....and fulfill....
4) we are all cocreator god/godesses and we all cocreate our own reality...always remember that please....if we as a whole benefit from this site i don´t see the problem in helping finance pa and pc.... Like little ants we all can give away in response and gratitude towards the people involved in serving us in such a great way....helping us in aquiring awareness and the big picture of what is going on in this planetary school...

[nibiru]

I´m in...

Bill,

IMO, DVDs in high definition would be a great way to make money for Camelot. DVD Roms can hold up to 4gb of info. Most new computers support DVD rom drives.
There is also a free windows media encoder that you download for free from Microsoft that will convert all of your video to High Definition.

DVD Roms can be purchased at any department store such as wal-mart, target, best buy, or radio shack.

Peace,
Suriel aka Kevin

[nibiru]

Originally Posted by operator

hi,

experience tells me that things go wrong when money gets involved.
I am sure costs are there and real, it will be difficult however to spread it equally over all members (there are so many).

Maybe i am too optimistic about this but ...
How about posting which costs are there to cover and let members decide freely to donate to see for themselves their
responsibility to keep this operation going ?

So show which amount is short for which date, or which extension is required and leave members responsible to meet
the resulting financial requirements.

Cheers

good idea !

[Dantheman62]

You are the man!!!, or woman!!!Mercuriel :jawdrop :

[orb]

Oh $12 a year is not bad. Also you could allow people to upload their own avitar if they pay, and use a canned avitar is they have not paid. And maybe have a $75 a year option where they get a great fancy cool t**** or something.

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan

* Having read all comments and suggestions, we're now thinking of an extremely modest $1 per month subscription - with the option, when registering, of choosing to add-on a regular, small voluntary monthly donation.

[Mercuriel]

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan

Hi, Mercuriel: Your offer seems very generous... but we're not sure exactly what you were proposing.

Ask and Ye shall receive...

I was drawn here, and for a reason. I didn't know what reason when I came here but I AM sure it was to help out in whatever way I could...



That said - Here I AM to help. Tell Me what You need Bill / Kerry and We'll iron it out to Your satisfaction...

Please PM Me and We'll get the ball rolling or You can reply here and I will read the Posts as They come in...

This will not be the first or last time I've put the White Hat on. It is after all - What I've Incarnated here to do - Help out in whatever way I AM able to...

[Relin]

"It seems people are confused about the nature of non-profit and for-profit. PA and PC cost money to run. The mods aren't making any money and I doubt Bill and Kerry and setting anything aside for retirement. Anyway, check out the cost of gas, hotels and plane tickets back and forth between Arizona and Vegas and Australia and Russia and the rest of Europe, and you'll get an idea of what kind of money it takes to bring us the videos they let us see."

Did anyone put a gun to your head and tell you that you had to do this project. I enjoy doing many things that take up my time and effort, but you dont see me crying poor and asking people to support me in my hobbies.

Only people who don't plan or invest wisely would be having financial problems. I've always been sceptical about the ultimate goals of PC. In my opinion it's nothing more than another income stream for the Bill and Kerry retirement fund... PC is all hype and no substance..

If you're both strapped for cash why don't you do what the majority of humanity does - work for a living.

[Carol]

Relin, I'm somewhat surprised at your unkind comments directed to the owners of this forum as you are their guest and here at their expense. To imply that they do not work for a living is a bit harsh considering that the Pulic Service work that they have been doing for the past several years has been at their own expense so that they could provide a variety of informational topics to the public for free. They are humanitarians, who have given everythng that they have (time, energy, personal resources), or own (all of the interviews, websites and now forums) to others so as to benefit thoses whom come in contact with them. The information and data they are providing has been for years free-of-charge. Your comments are mean-spirited and do not belong here.

To ask for a subscribtion to help cover out-of-pocket expense so as to continue this work is more then reasonable. The on-going belly-aching is not. Both the Project Camelot website and a major portion of the Project Camelot/Avalon forums will remain freely available to those who are members here.

Subscription to a new sub-forum is being explored and may be the way the forums' owners decide to go in. Much of this is still to be determined. Please be patient and exhibit the type of respect that the forum owners have extended to you.

[Dean Plejaren]

you are their guest and here at their expense

Carol I find this a bit odd you saying supporters are expense. First if you think about this properly without 'guests' they would have no site at all. Viewer sponsorship can easily cover running costs. Everyone knows that. You can even make money from it. It isn't expense. Second it's true they work for a living, and it's doing this. You do realize they get paid every time they do a conference they are not running around doing all this for free. Where would they get their money for the time to do this thin air? No this is their work. It's definitely a business. If it was non profit where is the budget to prove what has happened? No budget publically avaliable it's a business. I have herd they are running out of money but I wonder where did they get the money they were running out of was it inheritance?

To ask for a subscription is verification we know it's a business. Non profit never charges users. You actually can't say it's non profit and then charge it's a blatant contradiction.

Like Relin mentioned if they are going broke from the organization because it's costing them too much than they are earning from their living. Then it is a case of poor planning that's correct. If not just admit it's a business and what they do for a living. Nothing wrong with providing a service this way. Yet if you claim it's non profit when it's a business then yeah that becomes dishonesty.

Lets not kid ourself.

Originally Posted by Dean Plejaren

Non profit never charges users.

Perhaps you would prefer a
PBS style beg-fest replacing access periodically. The logical time to do that is when they release a new
interview. Twenty minutes of begging (get on the phones! as Gene Scott used to say) to ten minutes
of interview. They could even throw in a coffee cup at the five hundred dollar level.

I beg to differ with you regarding nonprofit 501C3 organizations. They do indeed charge with all monies
being turned back into the organization for the benefit of patrons. Run down and try to watch a nonprofit
community theater production. It's going to cost you. Especially if it is a class act. That doesn't even include the fund raisers.

[Dean Plejaren]

Ok I admit I don't know if it's a business or where any of the money is coming or going. But I do know my definition of non-profit which is something that people never have to pay for. That would be my idea of non-profit keeping it free. To be fair I know non-profit can mean for some equaling out a business to the degree it makes no extra money. But this is not non-profit to me. I see it as total sacrifice while keeping things free. You have to make money and that would be a separate thing. As long as you give out more than you charge people are willing to support the value of it I guess this is all a matter of balance.

[piers2210]

I agree 100% with what Hopeful says above....

if the Forum needs funds, then have a VOLUNTARY subscription for those who can afford it...you know who you are (which includes me!)

Thanks to all who post links and wonderful info which helps people like me become aware... love and light to all

[piers2210]

PS Hopeful's comments were on Page 1 of the Thread...

CD/DVD

100 for 179.00

Mixonic
http://www.mixonic.com/mcm/mixonic/index.jsp

Includes:
• CD duplication
• Black disc printing
• Full color 2-panel insert
• Thin jewel case

Minimum order is 100, upload your data and cover art to their system ships in 3 days

And as I posted before for latecomers

globat.com

166.00 for TWO years 5 terabytes storage and transfer, 5 domains hosted on one account

Tell em both livingmoon sent ya

Now stop whining about money

[LadyShankari]

Last time i was here i saw a post about how many people send them money all the time. they travel all the time, i wish i could travel all around, poor things such a ruff life. the cost on the site seems measly. ive seen them video out of what appeared to be thier house or where they were at least staying, it looked like a mansion on the water. im sure traveling all over the world constantly is expensive. or maybe they see this to get rid of people, as so many have recently got on here. so no ill not pay,ssems a ridiculous idea really. They obvioulsy have money as they have been traveling all around all the time, or at least that what i thought. not the average peopson out there can afford it. gee when was the last time i went somewhere, as probolbaly most of us are home on puter , and cant afford to go anywhere, let alone travel the world. yes a agree it is good work, but they were already traveling all around before this.

[whitecrow]

Originally Posted by LadyShankari

They obvioulsy have money as they have been traveling all around all the time...most of us are home on puter , and cant afford to go anywhere, let alone travel the world. yes a agree it is good work, but they were already traveling all around before this.

And there you have it, the other horn of the dilemma. I think that some kind of scheme to raise funds to support the work is a great idea. I'm not against some advertising, merchandising, whatever it may take to keep the site up and running. I have made it clear that I do not think it's right to charge for a forum like this, and that because I think that would be the WRONG way to fund this, I would leave. Also because like LadyShankari, I'm barely getting by. For me, luxury is a pizza, not a trip to Australia.

Last but not least, the law of the market applies. If the work fills a need, it will survive and prosper. If it doesn't, it won't. I won't pay for something I can get for free elsewhere, number one. Number two, I have some worthwhile things of my own to say - it's not necessary for me to buy people to have conversations with.

There are legions of reasons not to use money to constrain the flow of ideas. On the other hand, if you were to charge a li'l ole fee each time a video was watched, would that be constraining or facilitating the flow? I don't watch 'em, so I need others' input on this. Seems to me that would bring in some money but still leave the forums open for conversatin'.

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by zorgon

Now stop whining about money

We're not.

We're being transparent about how we're thinking. When a member has not understood our circumstances (see below for an example), we've explained.

This is a consultative thread. The responses have been very helpful and are all appreciated - Ron, including your very good info about DVD replication costs.

Originally Posted by LadyShankari

ive seen them video out of what appeared to be thier house or where they were at least staying, it looked like a mansion on the water.

That was Michael St.Clair's hotel room!

Very best, Bill