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Old 03-02-2010, 07:25 AM   #576
4Q529
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

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Originally Posted by 14 Chakras View Post

The BE'er is the doer.

Who BE'S? I BE. I AM. That's I.

I AM not the thinker. I AM.

You say, no, you are not, only special people are. I say: that is an illusion.

I AM.

I BE.

I let the I AM within BE. That's who I AM.
Unfortunately, all of this still exists in the realm of duality; the reason being that the 'thinker' or 'ego' is merely one aspect--specifically, the "beast of the earth" in Revelations 13:1 and Sura 27:82 of the Koran--of the 'fallen' consciousness.

The other aspect of the 'fallen' consciousness is the "beast of the sea" (Revelations 13:1) "self"/"not self" which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection itself (the "serpent" of Genesis 3 and the "dragon" of Revelations 12).

All of this duality consists of an obsessive, relentless absorption in the considerations of the individual consciousness.

When that duality is consumed, all attention shifts away from the illusion of the individual consciousness to the realm of Knowledge itself.

That is an entirely different discussion.

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Resour...ts/4Q529!.html
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Old 03-02-2010, 07:32 AM   #577
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

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Perhaps "God" is a consciousness, infinite potentiality.
I consider it to be a quite egregious error to introduce God into this situation as a 'kind' of consciousness.

What is typically referred to as God is, instead, nothing more than an experience of the non-spatial (or 2-dimensional 'flat' space), non-temporal "observing consciousness" which has been Created 'by and in the image of God' (Genesis 1:27).

This is something that can actually be talked about.

God, on the other hand, is utterly beyond even this non-spatial, non-temporal "observing consciousness"; and, for that reason, quite possibly beyond all comment whatsoever.

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

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Old 03-02-2010, 07:40 AM   #578
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

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The "ego" seduces us to believe that there is an outside (fallen) adversary a.k.a. "satan".
Well, Satan would have to be the origin of the duality.

As I understand it, Krishnamurti considered thought to be the very origin of the duality; but thoughts and the 'thinker' are merely the superficial aspect of Satan.

In fact, the duality exists at a much deeper level than thought, 'thinker' or 'ego'; that is, at the level of the "serpent" or the "dragon" of self-reflection.

That is the very foundation of the 'fallen' consciousness and not at all "external".

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

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Old 03-02-2010, 08:03 AM   #579
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

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You said these words today to me Chris :

" Its not more freedom of speech we require it's freedom from speech "

These are the wisest words you ever said Chris

Love for You
mudra
Yes I agree Mudra.
I heard it Hawkins say it on a video of his I have.

Love for you and thank you for being there for me when I needed It

With Love
Chris
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:19 AM   #580
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I must admit.. I was completely bowled over on reading Eckhart's 'The power of now' recently.

This really resonates with me. The simplicity of 'his' ideas about being present(say in contrast to something like a thread about alien races) is astounding.

When I peeked into the chatroom today, I wished more people had read books like that one! Maybe they had, anyway!

It's a good day to contemplate the ego and the mind.

In a very real way, none of the material at camelot or avalon is of any consequence if one is living totally in the now.

Not that I don't value it, or Bill, or Kerry, or all the posters here, because I do - but we need to be in control of the mind, and use it properly. This forum is a playground where the mind quickly gets a hold of the YOU that IS if you are not careful.

Peace and BE

K...

I'm off to BEd
You got it in one my friend.
All of a sudden there is the shift from the trivial to the important. Id get shoot for saying UFO,s are trivial, so I wont.

So happy for you.
Chris
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:33 AM   #581
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

[QUOTE=4Q529;246660]As I see it, thought is intrinsically dualistic because it originates in the thought of the 'thinker', which is an aspect of the 'fallen' consciousness; which originates in the separation from the Creator.

You are correct 4q529
DH says all thought are fallacious



This thought, or philosophy, or theology originates in the 'fallen' consciousness.

There is no such thing as a "last life time". be cause there was not a first time.
Life is eternal. The last time on the earth refers to freedom from the bondage of "thinking".

Words can only allude to Truth.
Chris
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Old 03-02-2010, 09:15 AM   #582
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

Dear friends in a way we have moved away from the topic of the thread and that is very beneficial.

The paradox is that the ego just a bundle of thoughts which I insist in in believing is me.
The pull of ego is very strong yet the ego is nonexistant.
Thus the purpose of the thread is tp discover that it is the "Phantom" and perhaps ultimately become thought less awareness
Nasargadatta in the book "I am That" said "Show me the ego and I will smash it to pieces"

I have an ego or I would not be expressing a point of view.
Its still work in progress but the mind is becoming quieter and quieter, time can pass and no thought arise. It is rare to have a though that bothers me.

It amuses me that we are attempting to talk about something which cannot be spoken of and putting our thoughts on what oneness is about God who is silent supreme intelligence without parts and just radiates LOVE without doing anything.in tg

Talking about the ego is one thing talking about God is another, yet the two subjects are connected.

Chris

Namaste
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Old 03-02-2010, 09:44 AM   #583
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

A further "thought"
Any misunderstanding here is because we are talking on different levels each one valid.
Many people visit the forums here and may find something that is said helpful and appropriate to their situation and understanding.

At the highest level of understanding there is no need to discuss, talk, knowing is nonverbal, without thought, awareness.

It seems enlightenment matures, to begin with there may be a period where functioning in the world is possible, a period where Presence takes over to the degree that there is no though of eating sleeping doing and without outside support the body would die, the sage being in a state of ever new bliss.
Some sages "return" to teach for our benefit. some remain silent, many just leave this world.
So here again I attempting to explain the unexplainable.
Truth can only be pointed to, not spoken of.
With love
Chris
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Old 03-02-2010, 09:57 AM   #584
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
A further "thought"
Any misunderstanding here is because we are talking on different levels each one valid.
Many people visit the forums here and may find something that is said helpful and appropriate to their situation and understanding.

At the highest level of understanding there is no need to discuss, talk, knowing is nonverbal, without thought, awareness.

It seems enlightenment matures, to begin with there may be a period where functioning in the world is possible, a period where Presence takes over to the degree that there is no though of eating sleeping doing and without outside support the body would die, the sage being in a state of ever new bliss.
Some sages "return" to teach for our benefit. some remain silent, many just leave this world.
So here again I attempting to explain the unexplainable.
Truth can only be pointed to, not spoken of.
With love
Chris
Well said... still I was pleased to find at least one thread yesterday that was a home for my 'thoughts' that represented all that was going on ! Thanks for providing it, Greybeard...

For me.. the battle of Camelot (hee hee sounds grand) is merely the external representation of my internal struggle that I am not at peace with spending so much time posting 'thoughts' into the ether. If the universe disbands camelot... it might just be its way of telling me to go and use my energy somewhere else...

I'd rather sort out my addictions first though, than have them sorted out for me

K
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:36 AM   #585
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

Thanks Kulapops for your kind words.
This is a good tread reflecting quite a few points of view.
Without these seemingly differing view points the thread would have run out of energy long ago.

Thanks to all who contribute here without exception.

Ramana made a now famous statement.
" The world you are trying to save doesn't even exist"

Is that helpful?

For most not yet.

We are in a world of illusion where the belief that we are the body predominates.
The air brushed photos of celebrities sell everything, big big business.
The footballer who can score consistently is paid millions, for what? kicking a ball filled with wind.
Now the fact that this gives million pleasure is worth something but the pleasure is short lived and if your team loses, then misery ensues.
Yesterdays hero todays villain Tiger Wood being the current villain.

There is a place for entertainment but not at the loss of what is truly important.

Bit by bit through the teachings of the like of Ekhart Tolle people are beginning to question their values and that is good.
More and more people are finding true peace of mind through the concept of Now.
There is no problem in the Now.

Going to stop thinking for a while.

Chris
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:03 AM   #586
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DH says all thought are fallacious
I cannot agree with this statement.

The thoughts of the 'fallen' consciousness--that is, the consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker'--are fallacious.

But the thoughts of God are "as high above the thoughts" of the 'fallen' consciousness "as the heavens are above the earth". (From Isaiah 55)

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

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Old 03-02-2010, 11:05 AM   #587
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Blast a though arose

H2O water.
Ice is H2O
Water is H2O
Steam is H2O

Different qualities.
Different functions.

When a bruise occurs the use of ice may be appropriate, steam would be injurious, therefore inappropriate.

What is useful to one level of consciousness is inappropriate to another.

If context is changed a statement looses the meaning intended by the originator.

Back to thought free at least I have some choice in this and no longer have a monkey mind.

Ch
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:23 AM   #588
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A further "thought"
Any misunderstanding here is because we are talking on different levels each one valid.
As I see it, the situation is much more serious than this.

It has to do with the destruction of the very meaning of words.

Take, for example, the phrase "We are all One."

This is the "beast of the earth" speaking with the voice of the "dragon".

This is the 'thinker' annihilating the very meaning of words because it must say 'something' in order to preserve the illusion that it can apprehend the Truth.

This is why we had a "peace process" which was almost 16 years of "process" and not one moment of Peace.

This is why we have people at this very moment seriously contemplating initiating a nuclear war for the purpose of...

...preventing a nuclear war; the only real question being when they will initiate the nuclear war.

In other words, the ultimate consequence of destroying the very meaning of words is the annihilation of civilization itself.

And it is the destruction of the meaning of the word "resurrection" by the religious 'authorities'--by the Pharisaic interpretation of that term--which is the theological origin of the conflicts between Jews, Christians and Muslims.

Jesus said: "Forgive them, Father, because they do not know what they are doing."

But before people 'do not know what they are doing', they, first of all, 'do not know what they are saying'.

The reason for this is that they are so obsessed with the preservation of the consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker'--that is, the 'fallen' consciousness--that they simply do NOTsee (Nazi) that they are destroying the meaning of words in the first place.

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

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Old 03-02-2010, 12:06 PM   #589
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I cannot agree with this statement.

The thoughts of the 'fallen' consciousness--that is, the consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker'--are fallacious.

But the thoughts of God are "as high above the thoughts" of the 'fallen' consciousness "as the heavens are above the earth". (From Isaiah 55)

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Resour...ts/4Q529!.html
With respect you are taking what I said out of context.
I cannot compare the thoughts of God with my thoughts for reasons you have given.
Hawkins was speaking of human thoughts.
I am speaking only for me though I do tend to say our, which might inappropriate .
to our conversation.
I have never disagreed with one word you have said according to my memory,
and I agree totally with your statement above.

Heaven can be found within.

DH says that Revelations was channeled from the lower astral and I have quoted that and given credit to him for that statement.
True or false I admit I do not know.

Certainly the chapter of Revelations in the bible has caused an enormous amount of trouble in this world. As you have pointed out it ha been seized upon by fundamentalists to justify actions and beliefs that cannot be of the love of God.

If you wish to question his ( Dr Hawkins) statement take it up with him through his publisher, they are in constant communication with him and publish only his books .
http://www.veritaspub.com/

With respect for you and your knowledge.
Chris

Last edited by greybeard; 03-02-2010 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 03-02-2010, 12:45 PM   #590
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With respect you are taking what I said out of context.
Oh, sorry. This was certainly not my intention.

To me, the words carried the context with them.

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Hawkins was speaking of human thoughts.
I don't doubt it.

I give him that much credit, just from what you have told me about what he has written.

But these are very important issues.

To me, it has to be specified what thoughts are being referred to.

On the Krishnamurti Forum, for example, there is such a relentless effort to destroy all thought, that I am currently in a discussion with certain people who say that any knowledge whatsoever is the real source of evil in the world.

Such discussions can very quickly lose all relationship whatsoever to the real world.

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Old 03-02-2010, 01:13 PM   #591
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Dear Q4529
I accept tht my thoughs are falacious and my knowledge of the Bible a distant memory or the history of the writing of the Bible.
I would like to put these questions out.
Who decided which books to put in and which were to be omitted from the Bible?
Why was virtually all reference to past life omitted?
Was Revelations written by Jesus?
Was it written in his life time?
Who would benefit from the inculsion of the book of revelation and omission of others?
Is Love expressed in Revelations or is fear the main part of that book?
Is not unconditional love free of Judgment?
If the devil wanted to distort the message of love and forgiveness expounded by Jesus where would the distortion be most effective?
What is the most read book in the world?
What is the realm where those who surrender their soul to the devil live?
Why did Jesus say "Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing"?
Can fear and love coexist?
As said typing for me is no easy effort, such is word blindness, dyslexia, so sometimes I leave out clear context.

Dr H could leave this world at anytime, "he" is free to do so but he remains here to be of service to all. He stays here because we are suffering from fallen consciousness.
He has been instrumental in resolving major conflicts, its in the about section of veritas the publishers of his books.
Regards Chris
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:03 PM   #592
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Dear Q4529
I accept tht my thoughs are falacious and my knowledge of the Bible a distant memory or the history of the writing of the Bible.
I would like to put these questions out.
Who decided which books to put in and which were to be omitted from the Bible?
Sir,

You have a lot of good questions.

I will try to answer the easier ones.

The decision on what books to be included in the Bible was made by people whose principal concern was maintaining their own authority and power. Anything that threatened their 'authority' or power was simply classified as 'heretical'. The Gospel of Thomas was excluded, for example, because the religious 'authorities' did not understand what it was saying, more than that it conveyed a message in opposition to Pauline Christian theology.


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Why was virtually all reference to past life omitted?
Not all references were omitted.

Jesus did say that "John...was Elijah".

Jesus' reply to the Sadducees (see, especially, Luke 20) includes a metaphorical description of the memories of previous lives; and Matthew 27:52 contains a metaphorical description of the receiving of those memories by some of the followers of Jesus.)

But all of this was simply ignored because that would have threatened the perspective of the Pharisees; the principal Pharisee being Paul, the originator of Christian theology.

That would have struck at the foundation of the 'explanation' for why Jesus was crucified in the first place--the doctrine of "vicarious atonement"--and that Jesus was 'God'.

That would have eliminated the belief in any metaphysical heaven and hell.

The church would have no longer been able to control people through fear of its 'authority'.

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Was Revelations written by Jesus?
No. It was written by John; who had received the Vision of the "Son of man".

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Was it written in his life time?
No, after Jesus died.

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Who would benefit from the inculsion of the book of revelation and omission of others?
If the Christian religious 'authorities' at the time had any idea whatsoever what was signified by the Revelation of John, they would have destroyed it (just like the rabbis, according to the Talmud, attempted, unsuccessfully, to remove Ezekiel from the Jewish canon); just like the Dead Sea Scrolls were hidden and the Nag Hammadi Codices were found in a garbage heap.

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Is Love expressed in Revelations or is fear the main part of that book?
Neither love nor fear is the principal message.

The principal message is the Knowledge which is conveyed about human consciousness and the origin of duality and evil; a Knowledge which is conveyed by the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the Memory of Creation.

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Is not unconditional love free of Judgment?
God does not love unconditionally. I consider that to be another statement created by the "beast of the earth speaking with the voice of the dragon".

According to the Law--and as expressed in Deuteronomy 28--people are rewarded and punished in this world relative to whether they abide by or violate the precepts of the Law.

Jesus referred to the Pharisees as a "brood of vipers"--not exactly expressive of any love that he had for them--because of their lies about the "resurrection".

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If the devil wanted to distort the message of love and forgiveness expounded by Jesus where would the distortion be most effective?
Turning upside down the Teaching of Jesus on the "resurrection" by the Pharisaical interpretation of that Revelation.

The Revelation of the "resurrection" is received in the heart.

Almost all of the memories I have received of previous lives have occurred in the context of very intense love relationships (not talking about sex, here; but, specifically, very intense love relationships)--in which I remembered who those women were in more than one of their previous lives.

The other questions you asked are more amorphous or complicated.

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

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http://jewishchristianlit.com/Resour...ts/4Q529!.html
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:02 PM   #593
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Has'nt this thread gone off topic ?

Love Always
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:32 PM   #594
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Has'nt this thread gone off topic ?

Love Always
mudra
Certainly seems to have a life of its own Mudra and certainly it was not my intention to get into religion of which I know nothing, however in fairness to all contributers some important topics have risen which though not the same as the heading topic have some relevance to it.
Perhaps it will now revert to its original remit.

Always good to get your input which is greatly appreciated.
With Love for Love
Chris
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:33 PM   #595
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Has'nt this thread gone off topic ?

Love Always
mudra
Well, as I understand it, what is being discussed now is how religious doctrine contributes to and exacerbates duality, which is what the 'ego' is a manifestation of in the first place.

So the question appears to have shifted to how it is possible to get beyond both duality and 'ego'; and the specific role of religious doctrine in preventing that.

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Old 03-02-2010, 03:39 PM   #596
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Thank you Michael Cecil (4Q529)
for your full answer .
and the food for thought.
Chris
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Old 03-02-2010, 04:00 PM   #597
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

Thank You for your answers 4Q529 and Greybeard.

Imo any religion brought to a level of spiritual understanding would move one beyond the ego.

Love Always
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Old 03-02-2010, 04:04 PM   #598
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Pops in and says hi and hoping everyone is well and of peaceful spirit.
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Old 03-02-2010, 04:48 PM   #599
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Imo any religion brought to a level of spiritual understanding would move one beyond the ego.

Love Always
mudra
Thank you mudra for beautifully clarifying how to transcend 'one's ego'.




~ Love & Light ~ Dan
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:37 PM   #600
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The "ego" seduces us to believe that there is an outside (fallen) adversary a.k.a. "satan".

then let's have nothing to do with neither of them
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