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Old 02-03-2010, 06:04 AM   #326
greybeard
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

Thanks again Mudra.
I ha d read all the Indian teachers work I could lay my hands on, great stuff but I dident get it, Then along came Eckhart with "The Power of Now" and the penny dropped,
There is a big difference between knowing about and being it.

With Love
Chris
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Old 02-03-2010, 02:19 PM   #327
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Core teachings of Eckhart Tolle:
1. You are not your thoughts. You are the awareness behind the thoughts. Thoughts are often negative and painful, yearning for or fearing something in the future, complaining about something in the present or fearing a matter from the past. However, the thoughts are not you; they are a construct of the ego. Awareness of your thoughts without being caught up in them is the first step to freedom.
I mean no offense but I have some disagreement with this theory. Our thoughts, emotions, and sensations are the products of our body/mind systems and are actually composed of 'you'. The entirety of what we experience (the perception of ourselves and the world) can be demonstrated to be a brain generated virtual reality, an illusion, through simple experiments. The observer (what is referred to as 'awareness behind the thoughts') and the observed (all thought and sensation of ourselves and the world) are in fact one and the same mind. The mind must play these two roles, the observed world and the observer, to enable the individual to 'experience' anything. To see your thoughts and emotions as not part of your true self is incorrect I think. The true or "real self" (your actual real world body as opposed to the mind's representation of it) logically cannot be experienced normally (I have never experienced it to my knowledge). All that we experience is in actually our minds, an illusionary representation of the real world and us in it. To understand and embrace that the totality of your experience is actually composed of 'yourself' and that its all 'you' seems healthier and closer to the truth to me personally. Fragmentation of the self through disassociation doesn't.


I think points 2 and 3 are good advice and agree with them wholeheartedly.


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4. Observe the pain-body. ...
I must admit I have never quite understood what he was getting at about 'the pain-body' but that helps a bit. It still smacks of disassociation to me to a great degree but I think I understand what he is getting at a little better. Recognizing conditioned responses (the pain body?) in ourselves as what they are is a good thing and not something everyone naturally does I'm afraid.

I used to believe I was a soul living in a flesh and blood body as per the Christian mythos. For the over 35 or 40 years I was a Christian the mechanics of how and why that would be so never was explained to my satisfaction by anyone I met or read. After I lost my faith and allowed myself to entertain other thoughts and possibilities my understanding of myself as a whole, complete, and unified being became clearer. My thoughts are part of me. My emotions are part of me. My awareness of them is another function of my mind which is generated by my body. I think anyone can demonstrate these things to themselves through simple practical and thought experimentation.

We are all on a search for peace and understanding of ourselves and the world we find ourselves in, I wish everyone good luck and hope we all find something that aids us in our journeys through this life. It's early, I'm rambling, and I need another cup of coffee.

Peace.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:21 PM   #328
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Trainedobserver wrote

"We are all on a search for peace and understanding of ourselves and the world we find ourselves in, I wish everyone good luck and hope we all find something that aids us in our journeys through this life. It's early, I'm rambling, and I need another cup of coffee.

Peace."

Glad to see you back here my friend.
Hope you enjoyed your coffee.
Wish you luck too.
Warm regards
Chris
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:32 PM   #329
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Love this song, and this verse more so.

From "reflection":

~Crucify the ego, before it's far too late. And leave behind this place so negative, blind and cynical. And you will come to find, that we are all one mind, capable of all thats imagined, and all conceivable.~ MJK


I sing this to myself as a sort of Prayer or intension daily. Thought I would share in this beautiful thread. Thank you for this.

In light, of love
Shaynard
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:00 PM   #330
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Blessings TrainedObserver,

I have opened a thread lately called " who is the perceiver " .
You may like to go over it and view the video I posted there .
Here is the link :
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=19071

As you say we are all in search for peace and understanding .
I believe it does'nt matter what our comprehension is and in which words or images we convey it .
The buddha for example did'nt listen to any theories.He meditated and found his own truth within .
What matters really as we progress is how much a better and more compassionate being we become.
How much peace we radiate and bring to the world and how free we become.
The roads to take to get there may be many .

Love Always
mudra

Last edited by mudra; 02-03-2010 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 02-03-2010, 07:06 PM   #331
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The buddha for example did'nt listen to any theories.He meditated and found his own truth within .
Well, actually he did. He was a well educated prince to begin with and after he left his home he studied under numerous teachers did he not? He almost killed himself following their teachings. It wasn't until after he had tried and failed under the various teachers he encountered that he began his famous meditation session under that tree. Is that not correct?
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:01 PM   #332
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Well, actually he did. He was a well educated prince to begin with and after he left his home he studied under numerous teachers did he not? He almost killed himself following their teachings. It wasn't until after he had tried and failed under the various teachers he encountered that he began his famous meditation session under that tree. Is that not correct?
That's why I wrote " did'nt listen "

Love Always
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:51 PM   #333
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You make your points well Trainedobserver.
Your intellect is sound and you have obviously studied the subject in great depth so you have not come to your conclusions lightly.

If you are happy with your conclusions great, leave well alone, in a way the only real difference in our way of looking at things is I believe in God and trust the teachings of Sages from time immemorial to present time, all saying more or less the same thing.
ie God is LOVE and is transcendent and imminent. Thats enough for me.
You see things in a mind based way. Thats ok.
I suspect you are kind and thoughtful, my friend, thats enough.

Its a question in my mind as to who or what gave us the mind.
Of course there is an evolution process but my thought is that the Creator set up the potential for this to happen with free will to evolve as it will.

I accept that by rationalizing -- re framing -- reconceptualizing events--- black can be made to seem as white, Positive thinking can revolutionize life. Im all for logic and being rational, it has its place.

For me being aware of being aware is a step beyond mind as such.
There is an awareness that I am exactly the same as I was at birth -- the same real "identity". Its like going to the pictures. I walk in enjoy the movie moment by moment, walk out and enjoy what happens in the moment. I need not be involved in it, I have that freedom. I am unchanged either way. The personality may well change but I am not that. Anything that comes and goes is not me..
What is Truth by definition cannot change. Opinions are a different ball game.

As mentioned before "Power versus Force" by Dr David Hawkins is a cross over book, between the linear and nonlinear. It was written for the intellect and as an opening to the world of the mystic Non-duality.

Regards
Chris
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:02 PM   #334
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A true story which I will keep short.

Bought a second hand Fender Precision Bass when I was playing in London.
Twenty years later I was well into spiritual concepts.
The appropriate one for this true story is non-attachment which I dident understand fully at that time.
I had been out in India and misunderstood the teaching.
Anyway on my return to Inverness I wondered what I was really attached to and could I let it go?
My Fender came to mind. I reluctantly put it up for sale in the Bassist magazine.
I hadn't played for several years but I loved the bass.

To cut a long story short a man in London bought it.
A few later he phoned delighted with "my" bass, then the questions, Where did I buy it? When did I buy it? Did I have it resprayed?

Then to my amazement he confirmed he had sold it to Macaries Musical Exchange all these years ago, thats where I bought it.
He kept the serial number of guitars he had for insurance purposes.

A few month later he sent a copy of "The Bassist" magazine. There he was large as life on the cover with the bass and the story, as told, was inside.
I took it as a sign that there is a God and He has a sense of humour.

There have been similar events that are likewise beyond belief.

I really dont have a logical answer, but there were times I asked for proof there is a God, seems that prayer was answered in this fashion or in other ways.
Thats my take on it.

With Love
Chris
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:07 AM   #335
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Off subject.
Coldest winter since records began here in Scotland.
A few inches of snow yesterday.
Went out for a walk in it late evening, so enjoyable with a sense of freedom.
Im 64 yet I honestly dident feel any different than I did as a child playing in the snow.
There is rarely a problem when the mind is present in the moment.

Have a nice day.
Chris
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:20 AM   #336
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Well, actually he did. He was a well educated prince to begin with and after he left his home he studied under numerous teachers did he not? He almost killed himself following their teachings. It wasn't until after he had tried and failed under the various teachers he encountered that he began his famous meditation session under that tree. Is that not correct?
The more I read his remaining teachings the more I realize he had other methodologies in addition to meditation, or perhaps one might say they are more aggressive, guided meditations, working with two people together. He also felt that his 8-fold path instructions set him above other schools.
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:23 AM   #337
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Well, actually he did. He was a well educated prince to begin with and after he left his home he studied under numerous teachers did he not? He almost killed himself following their teachings. It wasn't until after he had tried and failed under the various teachers he encountered that he began his famous meditation session under that tree. Is that not correct?
It is not that he did not get anywhere, but he did not get to as far as he wanted to go. The mental and physical disciplines and meditations for the most part served him well in his lifetime mission.
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:37 AM   #338
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Ramana said.

"You use a thorn to remove a thorn then both are thrown away."
Similarly the mind is used to remove the mind. (Advaita) then oneness - non-duality is what you are.
There is a lot of evidence of this way of being, anecdotal may be,l but I believe those who say they are permanently in that state. Similarly I believe there are U.F.O.s though I have never seen one.
I believe Eckhart Tolle and was fortunate enough to have a personal conversation with him over breakfast when he was at Findhorn.

We have freedom of choice to believe or disbelieve.
My world is the better for believing in a God of Love as expressed in the earliest spiritual writings the Vedas and Upanisheds right through Krishna, the Buddha, Jesus and present day spiritual teachers. Are they right? Are they speaking with integrity? I believe so.

With respect for other beliefs.

Chris
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:49 AM   #339
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AND, a big AND for me, is can I know and follow the same practices they used to "arrive" -- to myself arrive at their exemplified ability level? What was their "pure doingness" that arrived them at their heightened awakened state? Are they teaching people exactly that or are they just telling people how good it is to be like them -- the end results of all their devotion to some sort of internal and/or external system of clearing?

I need something that I can do everyday that shows me, over time, that I am clearing out my fixed negative energies.

Be it meditation, EFT, and the more "in-your-face" practices.
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:52 AM   #340
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Perhaps some beings are more teachers/sages, and some are "keepers of the tech", and some are life coaches who work one-on-one. I would not have awakened this much without all of those three working for me. I am very grateful for all who have helped me stay focused and hone my mind and intent.

peace,
gnosis
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:17 AM   #341
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AND, a big AND for me, is can I know and follow the same practices they used to "arrive" -- to myself arrive at their exemplified ability level? What was their "pure doingness" that arrived them at their heightened awakened state? Are they teaching people exactly that or are they just telling people how good it is to be like them -- the end results of all their devotion to some sort of internal and/or external system of clearing?

I need something that I can do everyday that shows me, over time, that I am clearing out my fixed negative energies.

Be it meditation, EFT, and the more "in-your-face" practices.
Agree with you Gnosis.
Ramesh Balsekar said "A spiritual teaching is of no value if it is of no benefit to you in this world."
I cant say that I am good at meditating.
What has worked for me is refraining from commenting in my head on everything I see.
Some posts back I mentioned just watching ducks totally focused and aware without comment. Once I had the hang of silent witnessing I started applying that to interaction with others. If I cant improve upon the silence why speak?

It has taken time but through applying the twelve steps of AA (anyone can), the teaching of Eckhart Tolle and more recently Dr David Hawkins my mind and therefore my life has become peaceful and thats a big contrast from being an agitated being.

I read the books on N.L.P. (Neuro linguistic programming) studied ego and behaviour patterns in books such as "Negotiation of parts" Qualified as a Hypnotherapist at St Annes Hospital. My life was a search for a better way of being after recovering from Alcoholism.

There is no quick fix but a steady progression is possible.

Dr David Hawkins work is very clear as to how to transcend the the ego and raise your consciousness. Its a question of removing the clouds (negativity) to let the sun which is allways presen,t shine through.
If enlightenment is the goal, you must become willing to let all belief systems, all concepts all positionality all judgement of others go, Then the true self will be realized.
its just not possible to do all tis without surrender to the Power of God.

Regards
Chris
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:22 AM   #342
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AAhhhh, now I'm starting to see some of the "doingness" behind your apparent achievements. Thank you!!
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:25 AM   #343
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If all I do is read about these enlightened beings and their "how wonderful it is to be me" teachings I would develop a sense of imbalance -- a "doingness hunger".

One of the reasons I link over to Jim Self's website occasionally is that before he starts his simple teachings he gives every listener the time and space to do a creational process. In that way he is putting the reins of power to change in my hands.
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Old 02-04-2010, 08:11 AM   #344
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Its a question of what resonates with you and is it in alignment with any goals you may have.
The spiritual teachings are full of paradoxes.
On the one hand I seem to be the doer on the other hand nothing happens without the enviroment being helpful to what I want to achieve.
Jesus said " Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within who is the doer" yet he extolled us to make every effort to avoid wolves in sheeps clothing.

Looking back it seems that I had to make every effort to make spiritual progress and yet because I became willing to learn about the spiritual the path was made easy by the right books the right teachers appearing at the right time, events I just couldent have arranged.
Having breakfast with Eckhart just happened. Same as walking round a corner and theres a friend I havent seen in years. We have all had experiences where we think of some one and the phone rings and there they are.

I take one step towards God and He takes a hundred towards me. L

It now appears that if I just "let go, let God " then life flows beautifully, I have aligned my will to what is.

Anyway another coffee is required.
Bye for now.
With Love
Chris
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:33 PM   #345
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The last frontier
by Jay Weidner
(excerpts)

read full article here :
http://www.jayweidner.com/ProphecyArticle.html

The last frontier of humanity is not the conquering of outer space, of other planets and solar systems. As we approach the end of this era we will realize that the last frontier is time.
This final mystery is the mystery of time.

Let’s take a look at our perception of time. Much of the way we experience the present moment depends on our experience of time past. The events of the past are distilled and repainted in our memories until their very reality loses its solidity. If we let them cook long enough, images of past events take on a dream like quality. Through this process, our remembrances frequently slide into a fantasy disconnected from anything tangible. How often have we encountered someone who remembers an incident in a completely opposite manner from the way we remember it? Our minds appear to be constantly rewriting history to make it more agreeable to our present day wishes. Incidents in the past that are disturbing or frightening are frequently glossed over in our memory until they disappear only to be replaced by a memory that is more easily digested by consciousness.

Our view of the future works in a similar but opposite texture. Whereas the past begins to become a dream within our memories, the future is the dream that has not yet arrived. When someone is successful in the material world we like to say that they have “lived their dreams”. This cliché reveals an intrinsic understanding that present and future reality is created from the dream state of the past.
This idea dovetails with the central belief of the Aborigines of Australia. The essential teaching from that tradition is that everything in our world begins in the Dreamtime. From their ancient perspective, every thought, every action emerges from a larger metaphysical landscape that surrounds and pervades our material world. They call this larger reality the Dreamtime. According to this tradition, each living thing first begins in the Dreamtime. After it has become fully developed in the Dreamtime it then concretizes and becomes a part of our three dimensional reality.

This process is recursive in that our future dreams are frequently constructed from the archetypes of ancient dreams. So the past and the future, the material world and the dream world work together to create not only everything that we see, feel and hear but all that we have manifested as human beings. If one looks beyond the veil of linear time, one can easily see that there is a certain control mechanism over this peculiar process. Because reality is so dependent on the dream world, it is possible to shift reality by simply shifting the dream.

Just think about the nature of the media these days. Over the past century, finding new and ever more invasive means of manipulating thoughts, desires and actions have been at the forefront of the research conducted by “psychic engineers”; the advertising agencies, spin doctors, pollsters, pharmaceutical companies, and secret government agencies of our world.

Through the constant barrage of images projected by the media, through the manipulation of food, and the polluting of the atmosphere, much of humanity has become lulled into a hypnotic state and their Dreamtime is occupied with nightmares. This has led us to today, to the present moment, in which our planet and our species is in a state of crisis. To transmute this crisis, this very critical situation in time, we must learn to step outside of linear time and enter the Dreamtime, that subtle realm in which everything becomes possible.
The dream world, time and four-dimensional space are all the same thing. The fourth dimensional world, often referred to as ‘time’ by physicists, surrounds and permeates our three dimensional reality. Everything that we are is shaped and formed within this topological manifold that flows into and out of our existence. As the stream of time passes we have the ability to alter it’s course. Each moment of our lives offers us the chance to change the course of our dreams and the dreams of those we love.

One of the main aims of many ancient spiritual traditions is to provide us with the means to create a conscious break with the almost dictatorial dreams of our past. This is the essence of the teachings of the Buddha for instance. We are slaves to the dreams that we were born into, slaves to a past of which we had nothing to do. Many of these ancient spiritual traditions teach us how to break with the mental slavery that has burdened us for so long.

If we change the dream we can change the world and ourselves.

The spiritual emergence that is happening right now across the world is the realization that there is only one kind of time. There is no past and there is no future.

There is only NOW.


( from SiriArc's thread " Magellan's ships " ):
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=18934

Love Always
mudra

Last edited by mudra; 02-04-2010 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:52 PM   #346
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Its a question in my mind as to who or what gave us the mind.
Of course there is an evolution process but my thought is that the Creator set up the potential for this to happen with free will to evolve as it will.
One of my problems with the whole "Creator" concept is that the creator could have been a team of scientists working in a genetics lab. The myths, theories, visions and dreams of a divine and benevolent supernatural being or beings creating human beings have no more validity than the theory that we are someone else's lab experiment.

Quote:
There is an awareness that I am exactly the same as I was at birth -- the same real "identity".
I have given this considerable thought over the years (this does not mean I am right however). I think about it quite often. I have recently had the pleasure of observing my grandson's first year on the planet and I contend that that which you call your unchanging identity has indeed changed many times. In fact it is constantly being formed moment by moment into someone different. There is only an illusion of continuity.

Please bear in mind that all that I say here is simply an expression of my views and I am in no way trying to convince anyone to adopt them as well although they are certainly free to if they wish.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:56 PM   #347
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Thanks for this Mudra.

This is partly why the Mystics say that they can only point to "That which cannot be spoken off."
We just dont have a suitable frame of reference to "label" their experience.
They live in a non-dualistic state which is timeless and omni present.
How can we possibly understand or make sense of that from where we abide?

In wonder of it all -----Chris.
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:54 PM   #348
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In reply to Trainedobserver
When I was in my teens I was fascinated by books about the Pyramids and other unexplained sites, photos of landing strips in the Amazon -- modern airport size.
Many mysteries. there was a great book by Dutch author think it was called "We were not the first" going deeply into all these unusual things.

I have no problem with he concept that as early humans we were visited by aliens and modified.
However we are an evolutionary species and it would be foolish to think we have reached our full potential at this moment.
I think awareness -- spiritual consciousness also evolved and is evolving rapidly at this time.

Lets say we were created in a lab, ok live life to the full enjoy it be kind to others, certainly there seems to be a law call it karma where the more you give with good intent without looking for return the more peace you get the more at ease you are.
You die then what?--- nothing-- Im ok with that.

Lets say there is a God and a life thereafter. You will enjoy life more if you do exactly the same as the previous paragraph.
Jesus said " In my Fathers House there are many Mansions" so it may be that according to your spiritual vibration and belief system on death of the body you automatically go to a heaven that is concordant with your vibration and belief.


As far as self changing, the ego thinks its master of it own destiny and is changing me.
The persona changes, I think im older and wiser, the body ages and dies.
When I catch sight of myself in the mirror I think "My how time has flown, is that me?" Truth is I dont feel even the slightest bit older.
My awareness carries on being aware in exactly the same way. I, as me, dont even ask it to be aware, it just is aware, I cant stop it. What I believe I am is, that which is aware of being aware.
Like you Im not saying Im right Im just enjoying our debate.
You make me think and thats a good thing.

I was wrong once before 10.11.1945.
I was a breach birth. Think I changed my mind at the last moment.
Scorpios are never wrong--- its a well known fact-- joking---honest.
I dont take myself too seriously.
Chris
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:37 PM   #349
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

Hi there! This thread is showing the broad variety of how the ego is being experienced by us, interesting! I'll share my experience with the ego: for me the beginning of my life was mostly a world within that didn't match with the world without. I was furious about the time delay of Earth's conditions in the manifestation process. Also I wasn't prepared for the anger that was directed to me, when I spoke my truth. My urge to "do good" was a mission without freedom, stemming from another lifetime or a pattern of those. I was the healer and the caretaker of my family with 11 members, I am the third of nine children and my father was a preacher. Doing good was a holy slogan in the church, so the match was perfect! My doing good was my survival kit and in that form there was no unconditional love. I started to look at the pain of my inner child, that wasn't appreciated in my youth and studied the material of Eckhardt Tolle and felt I had arrived at the moment of truth, or the dark night of the soul, in dec. 2008. Until my 58th year I tried to do good without really being fulfilled or happy, it was a long and winding road to the point I surrendered to myself and learned to accept my develish and godlike aspects. To enjoy life and be grateful for it, is the key to the higher self, simply by making that choice, at least ...............once arrived it's simple. The ego loves to keep the chains, because it's identified with as the essence. It's alway at war, so to speak. It's me and not you. It's mine and not yours. Doesn't want to get lost! It's travel companions are control and fear. It's almost a joke, because in loosing oneself one finds the eternal soul within. Having a sense of humor helps! Finally I am a human being, isn't that great? Arrived at my own doorstep.........Thanks for sharing!
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:29 PM   #350
Gnosis5
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Its a question of what resonates with you and is it in alignment with any goals you may have.
The spiritual teachings are full of paradoxes.
On the one hand I seem to be the doer on the other hand nothing happens without the enviroment being helpful to what I want to achieve.
Jesus said " Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within who is the doer" yet he extolled us to make every effort to avoid wolves in sheeps clothing.

Looking back it seems that I had to make every effort to make spiritual progress and yet because I became willing to learn about the spiritual the path was made easy by the right books the right teachers appearing at the right time, events I just couldent have arranged.
Having breakfast with Eckhart just happened. Same as walking round a corner and theres a friend I havent seen in years. We have all had experiences where we think of some one and the phone rings and there they are.

I take one step towards God and He takes a hundred towards me. L

It now appears that if I just "let go, let God " then life flows beautifully, I have aligned my will to what is.

Anyway another coffee is required.
Bye for now.
With Love
Chris

Yes, the first thing I noticed when I made a commitment to myself when I made a financial commitment to pay for the time of a spiritual coach -- the first thing I noticed is that money flowed to me and rather easily. For example, I got invited out of the blue to a couple of fun focus groups and was paid $300 plus a $75 gift certificate, plus all the free food I could eat during the group meeting, plus meeting some nice people :-) Plus I got to notice things about myself in my interaction with these people.

I started to really take my spiritual rehabilitation "seriously" with focused intention, just as I do when I am lifting weights towards a known goal.

As with yourself, I got what I put into it and there is some other component, call it God, that co-contributes.

The New Testament also has some pithy and rather scathing words for those who are what the common translation calls "lukewarm", although I would not take the whole NT as unadulterated highest level of truths.

How I relate to Jesus saying it is the Father within him is the few times I have been in the viewpoint of the "All-that-is" and operated through that viewpoint. From that viewpoint, all things are possible. And guess what?!? It is a viewpoint that can be trained in and everyone can train themselves to operate from that viewpoint.

I just happen to pragmatically and practically see that it has to be a twin-up or group support set up -- regularly scheduled meeting times that one can fit into life's other demands. That way, if one is slow, the rest of the group, or his twin, can help him.

That may be a solely feminine perspective, but it could also be an antidote for a solely left-brained self sabotaging setup.

Yes, at first there can be a lot of effort involved. As the need or compulsion for effort gets cleared out, one rises above the need to "effort". But I see effort as divorced from pure intention. Effort probably also has its higher and lower harmonics, and we go up the scale on the chord of "effort".

As a real-life example, today I got together with my personal spiritual coach and we processed the common emotion of love, i.e., admiration + sympathy. When the process was finished (not without being peppered with some grief) I had moved up to something more akin to admiration + compassion. Thus I ended session knowing that I did not have to knee-jerk response to, let's say, an abandoned puppy, with the lower type of "love".

Small sure steps, all part of the enlightenment process.

And, yes, I am a voracious reader/self-educator too. That contributes immensely.

I have journalled parts of my spiritual growth over at the Freezone_Earth Yahoo Group

Not only did the NT warn us to avoid wolves in sheep's clothing, but were we not also extolled to put on our spiritual armor? And did not the early Christians gather together and work their spiritual practices/tools together? What were their "tools" to help them gain equal footing with their brother Jesus?

Last edited by Gnosis5; 02-04-2010 at 07:32 PM.
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