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Old 07-13-2009, 10:27 PM   #26
mudra
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Physical death to me is failure to graduate from this earth school! The wheel of reincarnation is real alright, but its a limitation.

Some of the holiest men on this earth have reincarnated over and over again and ego had nothing to do with it The Dali Lama is one example our earth has been in lock down till we learn the lessons we need to in order to go next level. But for some reason this time is going to be different . There will be a graduation this time
I wrote to the dalai lama a few years ago and he specified in his answer that this is his last incarnation on earth. I believe masters and wise men incarnated on this earth voluntarily with a purpose in mind and a goal to reach.And so is the case of many lightworkers that are around today.

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Old 07-13-2009, 10:34 PM   #27
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We will see when the time comes Jrod. I believe as Consciousness evolves and moves to a higher gear this time going through a tunnel won't be needed .As far as I can sense it these tunnels were part of the process of reincarnation . Graduating through the heart will leave no room for guilt feelings that one needs to make up for . This is how we will reach a new plane of existence.

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Old 07-13-2009, 10:45 PM   #28
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Dolores Cannon does a GREAT job of explaining death in 'Moving into a New Earth'... I can't find the link but it was an amazing description, one I resonate with greatly. I highly recommend it if you can find it
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Old 07-13-2009, 11:36 PM   #29
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. . Could the "tunnel" look like this?...
. .

Colors would be reversed, the center will be full of Bright, White Light


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Not the tunnel I saw. Beautiful image though.
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Old 07-14-2009, 01:40 AM   #30
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Not the tunnel I saw. Beautiful image though.
I like the fact that when I look at this particular picture, it moves for me. No I am not on drugs.

I see a wormhole instead of a tunnel..if that makes any sense...


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Old 07-14-2009, 05:47 AM   #31
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Die to the little self

while still in the body ..

die to ignorance

greed

suffering

fear

control

and then realy live ...

and then realy die ...

finaly ....

put an end to it ...

off the wheel

the merry go round ...

You only need to die to the ego to gain eternal LIFE! There is no second death for those who choose life. To die before we die is to live eternally forevermore and gain our true spiritual identity in the mind of God. We are infinite spiritual beings who live in the eternal Now, if only we would remember...

Mudra, I agree with you. It is time for a great harvest and many beings, millions embodied now will achieve full spiritual freedom within this lifetime.

I believe one of the major illusions we must break through is believing that only famous people who are outwardly very spiritual can change the world and achieve full enlightenment.

The Dalai Lama is a being with great momentums, however, there are many many beings with increible spiritual momentum's embodied around the world in very normal lives, and it is simply up to us to remember and take back our power. We live in a celebrity culture and it is time the people realized the power lies within them, not the famous person outside of them...

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Old 07-17-2009, 02:32 AM   #32
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For the further evolution in our understanding of dying, I share this quote from my friend Jacob (aka: Phaethonsfire), who is a moderator at the FIGU Forums:


Life, Death, Rebirth and Love

In human life there are two things at the very least certain: The fact that you are alive, and the fact that it will end, those things are for the 'average everyday Earth-human' two of the very few certainty he has in his life, usually he is not aware that Creation is everywhere around him and in him as the tiny Spirit part that lives in him and even makes his existence possible in the material realm.

People have often a deep fear of death, and although death is inevitable, people ignore it because it frightens them, death is for many people still the end, after which they fall apart in oblivion according to their beliefs.

People have deep rooted fears about their loved ones, about losing their loved ones when they die, or vice versa when they die themselves.

True love, the one love that really connects people never dies, not even in death, it's the kind of love that will overcome the barriers of life and death altogether, it overcomes the barriers of time and space. Once a true love is existent between two people, nothing can destroy that.

If you have someone in your life, that you really love, like the Law of Love describes, and you feel the unity between you and that person, that feeling that is always there even when physically separated, by distance or in death, then you should know that the Love bond you have with the other is unbreakable.

Love comes in many forms, yet all love forms are based on the same Law.

It's the Law that Love is the bond of all life, and all existing things in the Universe and above, and that everything is a part of everything, indivisible, eternal and everlasting.

So, when you love your husband, wife, brother or sister, and death comes calling for one of them, then know that when there is love in you for your loved one, that they will always be a part of you, and know that in the next life, although not consciously, you will meet them again as friend, wife, husband, brother or sister, you will instantaneously feel a deep connection a bond that feels very good, yet very well known...like you know the other for years.

Love is the bond that keeps everything together, and a bond forged in love is unbreakable, in life, death and rebirth
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Go to: ...
http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13...html#POST12124

Then scroll down to Jacob / Phaethonsfire post number 158 on this page.


In Peace ... The Light of Truth goes forth

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Old 07-17-2009, 03:39 AM   #33
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The late Mr. X...the archivist...described aliens as not forgetting their previous lives when their bodies die. They just change clothes...so to speak. Why can't we do that? Have the aliens messed with us so we don't remember? Is this a control mechanism? Have they shortened our lives also? Look at the book of Genesis. There is a lot that I don't believe in Genesis...but what about people living to be nearly 1,000 years old?

I currently think we simply get recycled. I'm not expecting heaven, hell, purgatory, ascension, descension, or some beautiful mystical experience...just a painful review of my pathetic life...with some stern words from a panel of humans, reptilians, and greys...with perhaps some discussion over where to reincarnate me...and then back into the 'Disneyland of the Gods' for more fun! I'd prefer an E Ticket over an SOL Ticket next time...thank-you. As usual...this is simply educated and thoughtful speculation...and could be pure bs.

Incidently...if death is such a wonderful thing...why don't we all commit suicide? My answer is...that despite all of the sickness, misery, pain, and suffering of all kinds...this physical life is where the action is. Hopefully...over the next few hundred years...we can refine out a lot of the horrible suffering which so many people currently endure. In 'Hotel California' there are the haunting lyrics...'You can check-out...but you can never leave.'

Just as I hit 'save' for the above 3 paragraphs...someone knocked on my door saying that a boy just had a terrible accident on his skateboard...and that I needed to call 911...which I immediately did. He was laying face down in the street...with blood running from his head. He was conscious...but barely. His face was badly injured...and I think he almost died...75 feet from where I was typing a message about death. I hope he'll be OK. I've bypassed this thread for several days. Why did I choose to read it and comment on it when I did? Coincidence? Probably...but it's still creepy.


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Old 07-17-2009, 05:08 AM   #34
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To further our understanding in respect to reincarnation: ...

IV. Did the Source of the Gospels Contain Teachings on Reincarnation?

Some who have examined the apparent reality of reincarnation have looked into the Gospels for clues that Jesus actually taught the subject, and have found them. As to how such clues originated, it is usually postulated that following the 2nd Council of Constantinople in 553 C.E. the Gospels were edited so as to remove all obvious traces of teachings and implications of reincarnation.

However, there is sufficient evidence from early church fathers to indicate that some of the verses to be discussed, and which exist in about the same form today, greatly predate this council. Hence a much more likely possibility is that the New Testament gospels themselves derive mainly from one source, and this source is what had contained Jesus' teachings on reincarnation and karma that were edited out upon first formation of the Gospels in the early second century. ...

Gospel Evidence that Jesus Taught Reincarnation

It is important to examine some particular examples of these Gospel clues, since they are largely unknown within modern scholasticism. Perhaps the primary verse to this effect is Mt 11:14, "...and if you are willing to accept it, he [John the Baptist] is Elijah who is to come."

The only alternative here to the implication that Jesus was talking of Elijah having been a past life of John, who would be reborn again some time in the future, comes from 2 Kgs 2:11 in which Elijah is "taken up by a whirlwind into heaven" and is seen no more.

If it is assumed that this means Elijah never died but was "translated" alive into heaven, the further assumptions are then needed that he later "translated" into the body of John the Baptist and would "translate" into some other body in the future. However, this concept of translation, involving a fully human body that never ages or dies, seems unintelligible in comparison with the reincarnation hypothesis, especially since John is described in Luke's first chapter as having been raised from a baby and never having suddenly changed into Elijah's very own "translated" body.

The reincarnation hypothesis here is consistent with Jesus' wording, "if you are willing to accept it." Probably only a minority of his listeners in Israel believed in reincarnation, with many, especially Pharisees and Sadducees, being opposed to the concept.

Thus, Jesus at that point was speaking just to those who could accept the possibility. It is likely that the Logia had more to say here about Elijah's (John's) future reincarnation that was omitted when Matthew was formed. That Matthew's compiler left this strong a clue behind here is probably attributable to his fondness for Elijah, along with other Old Testament personages, causing him to include as much of this Logia verse as seemed feasible.

Also, this compiler evidently believed in "translation," and supported this belief with his Transfiguration story. Thus he probably would not have felt that he was leaving behind a clue here that his source text had discussed reincarnation.

Another strong clue is found in Mt 16:13-15, "Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, `Who do men say that the Son of man is?' And they said, `Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.' He said to them, `But who do you say that I am?'"

Although it is quite possible that in asking the question Jesus was wondering if the people thought of him as a Messiah of some sort, their response (especially "Jeremiah or one of the prophets") indicates they had a past life in mind. That this did not cause any stir or consternation is consistent with Jesus having wondered what important past life they believed him to have had.

Another clue is Mt 24:4 where we read: "For many will come in my name, saying `I am the Christ!' and they will lead many astray." This makes most sense if Jesus was referring to persons in the distant future who would claim they are reincarnations of him. It makes less sense to think they would claim to be resurrections of him, which would require their asserting to have first appeared on earth in their own time in the full-grown resurrected body of Jesus, never having passed through childhood. Moreover, at the time the text of the verse was spoken, resurrection or "anastasis" referred only to a general resurrection at the end times, and not to the raising up of a particular individual.

Further clues consist of the "incarnation" verses: "I have come not to... but to..." Of these, Mt 5:17 and 10:34 seem here most likely to be in a form close to that of their source. If Jesus had early in life gained an understanding of what his life's mission and goals were to be -- and the "lost years" evidence supports that likelihood, he could then speak as "having come" for such-and-such a purpose. Thus the "incarnation verses" easily fit into the context of Jesus having taught that he, as well as all others, were subject to reincarnation. This provides a real alternative to the interpretation that he was incarnated once and for all as part of a Trinity.

The foregoing clues are mostly absent from the other gospels, indicative of "improvements" directed towards increased orthodoxy as is usually to be expected within later works, and supporting Matthean priority.

If the Logia were the source of Matthew, we then infer that other teachings of reincarnation were omitted from Matthew or were highly edited, with "resurrection" substituted for "reincarnation" or "rebirth."

A verse from John (Jn 9:1-2) regarding the man blind from birth is also commonly cited as indication that Jesus and his disciples assumed reincarnation to be a fact. Although this instance may be an indication that the writer of John had been accustomed to interpreting fate in a karmic sense, the testimony of Papias suggests that only the compiler of Matthew was close enough to the Logia to have left bonafide clues behind from the source document. However, the writers of Luke and John may have been those referred to by the portion of Papias's statement reading "and each interpreted them [the Logia] as best he could."


Text and explanation from Talmud Jmmanuel research, found here: ...

http://www.tjresearch.info/ecumensm.htm#xxx

Truth must come before Peace


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Old 07-17-2009, 06:35 AM   #35
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Thank-you for the great post J rod7. I'll have to read it several times. It contains a lot of good, concise information.

I try to follow the words of Christ...but I currently believe in reincarnation. In principle and concept, at least...they harmonize. I hope the following sermonette is not too theological or preachy. It's a bit of an off-topic non-sequiter...but illustrates three theological perspectives. I identify with the last one...and this view is relatively easily harmonized with the concept of reincarnation. I don't follow eastern mystics...or chant, etc. I just think we should be ethical...and that we get recycled. When we are ethical...we create a better world to get reincarnated back into. It's all about quality of eternal life...and not whether I am going to be 'saved' or not. I think we all get recycled...whether we are good or bad...but we should still be good!

I wrote the following some time ago...and I have recently decided that the concept of God is problematic to the max. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I tend to think that this applies to all beings in the universe. Conceptualized ideals are helpful...and there is a certain divinity which resides within humanity...and probably within reptilians and greys as well. I really don't know. So interpret my references to God in whatever manner which resonates with your views.

A debate that has raged for centuries is between those who say Jesus was just like us, and those who say He had an advantage over us. Both views state that Jesus perfectly obeyed the law of God from birth to death, and thus secured our salvation, by doing that which we could not do, and that by believing in Christ and His sacrifice, we are accepted by God, and saved for all eternity.

If Jesus was just like us, some believe that the substitutionary atonement is just the beginning, and that we can overcome sin just as Christ overcame sin, and indeed we must do this at the end of time, just before the return of Christ, in order to be saved. That we must stand before God without a mediator. They believe that if Jesus had an advantage over us, that the substitutionary atonement would not be valid. That it would be a hollow victory! They also believe that there is no excuse for sin, and that if there is, then the Devil is right and God is wrong!

Those who believe that Christ had an advantage over us state that Christ is the second Adam, and that He succeeded where Adam failed, and thus secured our salvation. And that there was no taint of sin whatsoever in Christ, both physically and spiritually. Further, that we, with our fallen sinful natures, can never, ever, live sinless lives until Christ returns and gives us new bodies and minds. That it is only by laying hold of the merits of the crucified Christ that we are accepted by God as though we had never sinned, and saved for all eternity.

The first option tends to lead toward legalistic perfectionism. The second option tends to lead toward irresponsibility. What fun!

I'm going to go way, way out on a limb, and say that these two views are delusion vs delusion! They both turn the old, old story of Jesus and His love into a fairy tale. They imply that God is a legalistic, perfectionistic, blood-thirsty monster who doesn't think we're good enough for Him. They are both sort of logical, when isolated from the realities of every day life, but they are utterly illogical when reality is clearly faced without distortion or rationalization.

I believe that Jesus was just like us, but that He was very, very spritually refined and developed, and that He demonstrated to the human race, the true character of God, and what we humans are capable of achieving, and indeed must achieve, to usher in the last great, true renaissance which will bring peace to the world! By His sacrifice on the cross, Jesus made the bloody Old Testament sacrificial system obsolete, and made a new and living way to be right with God available to all, by following His example of loving neighbor as self in a non legalistic-pefectionistic way. To be right with God, we need to be right with God! Not just declared right with God! This symbolic and representational demonstration did not require perfection. Nothing changed between God and us.

We must be in harmony with the character of Christ, and decidedly part of the solution! We must not be in rebellion with the character of Christ, and decidedly part of the problem! We need to be very good, but not perfect! This is an ongoing process of cooperation between the human and the divine.

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Old 07-17-2009, 07:36 AM   #36
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Hello Orthodoxymoron,

You have made some important insight in your words: ...

"Jesus made the bloody Old Testament sacrificial system obsolete, and made a new and living way to be right with God available to all, by following His example of loving neighbor as self in a non legalistic-pefectionistic way. To be right with God, we need to be right with God! Not just declared right with God! This symbolic and representational demonstration did not require perfection. Nothing changed between God and us.

"We must be in harmony with the character of Christ, and decidedly part of the solution! We must not be in rebellion with the character of Christ, and decidedly part of the problem! We need to be very good, but not perfect! This is an ongoing process of cooperation between the human and the divine."

This aligns with the Knowledge that we are all responsible for ourselves in every respect. We then have the obligation to gain further knowledge of the Laws of Creation for our Spiritual Growth. The Laws of Creation both Supersede AND include all the currently known Laws of the Universe, including the Laws of Nature, and all the laws of Science as 'subsets.'

So-called 'sin' is within the Laws which state = there must be polarity in all things, opposites in all things, and the necessity of Cause and Effect at work in all things. The conditions of living set up opportunities to make errors in our actions and in our thoughts. Growth comes when we recognize our errors and correct them, which learning process is at the heart of Spiritual Evolution.

Certainly, NO ONE is able to learn all the necessary lessons to obtain to perfection in one lifetime. Reincarnation IS the true reality, by which through literally millions of lifetimes, we are presented ever greater opportunities, ever greater challenges along each our individual paths. No one is ever given a problem or challenge beyond the individuals' current strength or ability to solve. By solving each in turn, we gain greater strength of Spirit for the next opportunity that comes to each of us.

In Peace


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Old 12-29-2009, 06:30 PM   #37
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:17 PM   #38
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my mother died Feb. 1st 2002 of complications from emphysema.

She was diagnosed at 55 and died at 59. In those 4 years, we talk alot about death...and life. We shared more in those 4 years then we did in the 33 years before her death...

The night she died, my sister and i were by her side...as she quietly took her last breath...that singular moment, those first few seconds of silence...reminded me of the first few seconds before my babies took their first breath...

So...

my mothers last breath...and my childrens first...created the same feeling, the same...pause...

It is a gift i cherish...and was honored to be there and witness her last breath.
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:44 PM   #39
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Thank you all for this forum
When my father died I realized how much I loved him.
I believe that is one more reason why we have death, to realize how much we love the one we lose.

Love Greenlander
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:32 PM   #40
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*celine hugs you *




Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenlander View Post
Thank you all for this forum
When my father died I realized how much I loved him.
I believe that is one more reason why we have death, to realize how much we love the one we lose.

Love Greenlander
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:55 PM   #41
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I do not fear death at all. i do not want to say i welcome it either but certainly do not fear it, many fear leaving their families behind this is a human trait but we have many families in many past lives.
Perhaps if we celebrated death the fear would not be so harsh perhaps celebrate is the wrong word but why fear something which is inevitable.
Why be sad also lets embrace our moving on whether we choose to re incarnate or ascend.
I will not be entering the tunnel or following the white light i will be looking out to the universe and joining back with the stars.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:26 AM   #42
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We as souls open the door of "life" , walk in and then forget that we actually did so . If we don't wake up to it while we are in there then when we leave it feels as if "life" is closing the door on us and we want to get back there .And so the cycles of birth and death go on until we fully realize our immortality ..our true essence beyond life and death.We are Life eternal .. Birth and death are just a room we visit on our journey and the purpose of the visit is to switch the Light on while being there so we don't stay stuck in the dark .

Love Always
mudra

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Old 12-30-2009, 12:36 AM   #43
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Realizations about Love are always important ones Greenlander as Love is your essence .
When you learn about love you learn about you ...about who you really are.

Love Always
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:38 AM   #44
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I could wax lyrical, be long winded, quote many great sages, divest worthy paragraphs from learned people but this is what I have to say about life/death.

There is an expression (or quote, if you prefer) that I hold to. I cannot remember where I read this because I was pre-teen when I did, and it goes something like this...

"If I die knowing that my life benefited just one person, then I know my life has been worthwhile and a success".

That is my creed, it is what I live by even though I tend to forget this more often than I remember.

In closing, I know this will be my last time here.

Love Light and Peace

Z
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:38 AM   #45
mudra
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It seems Céline that in all these cases you have been witness to .. your mother and your children .. these souls opened and closed the door of life gently

Love Always
mudra

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Old 12-30-2009, 12:46 AM   #46
mudra
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I remember thinking something similar to you Zeddo.
" If I manage to help awaken fully One person I'll be happy "
Of course with these kind of thougts in mind you begin to help many .
And by helping many .. finally you are helping yourself for you come to realize who you really are .. that you are Love and at the same time that you are ONE..
Seems you are going to leave a warm Light on on closing dear Zeddo

Love Always
mudra

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Old 12-30-2009, 01:10 AM   #47
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Quote:
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We as souls open the door of "life" , walk in and then forget that we actually did so . If we don't wake up to it while we are in there then when we leave it feels as if "life" is closing the door on us and we want to get back there .And so the cycles of birth and death go on until we fully realize our immortality ..our true essence beyond life and death.We are Life eternal .. Birth and death are just a room we visit on our journey and the purpose of the visit is to switch the Light on while being there so we don't stay stuck in the dark .

Love Always
mudra
this is so wonderful how you put this mudra ... it is of such truth that resonates with me ...

some ppl say there is no learning to be in this life ... but only to experience ... but i feel ... there is meant to be tremendous learning in life ... about who we really are ... and i know ... i sound like a broken record always saying this ...

i know of ppl ... who in this life ... had remained disconnected ... to the realization of who they really are and how great of a glue love is amongst all that is ...
in this life ... they were lost and were separated ...
they were rigid of their ego belief that there is only "i" ...
in this life ... they were not flexible within their hearts of the realization of "we" ...

they knew not of how to switch the light on within their visit ... and remained in the dark ...

and in their own deaths ... they remained as lost souls ... lost to the realization that life is eternal ... souls feeling they must remain in the dark ... not knowing ... of the beyond ...

it is strange ... i have had some experiences with ... with accompanying some ... to where they needed to be ... another llife experience ... another opportunity ... to come to know who they really are ...

i have come to know ... for myself ... there is no suffering in death ... there is only known realization of what is ... or there is the opportunity once again ...

in life ... there is death ...
in death ... there is life ...

life is our opportunity ... to evolve to our true essence ... now is the energy at its greatest ever ... in assisting us ... to our truth ...

and in our darkness ... the opportunity for each and every one of us ... to find that switch ...

and finally ... turn on the light ...



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Old 12-30-2009, 03:45 AM   #48
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Default Re: understanding death

It does not make sense to me how one could have experience without learning. But in my lifetimes reviews I sure did some stupid things, and for no good reason either. I had to make up a reason and I have not yet been able to find anything romantic or poetic about some of my existences, but I have come to love myself and others more and to be wiser in choosing my learning experiences and "fun" games.

When my father died I realized there is a spirit reaction to death and there is a body reaction to death. The body (visceral) reaction felt strongest and contradicted the spirit response to death.

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Old 12-30-2009, 04:04 AM   #49
Gnosis5
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Default Re: understanding death

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14 Chakras View Post
You only need to die to the ego to gain eternal LIFE! There is no second death for those who choose life. To die before we die is to live eternally forevermore and gain our true spiritual identity in the mind of God. We are infinite spiritual beings who live in the eternal Now, if only we would remember...

Mudra, I agree with you. It is time for a great harvest and many beings, millions embodied now will achieve full spiritual freedom within this lifetime.

I believe one of the major illusions we must break through is believing that only famous people who are outwardly very spiritual can change the world and achieve full enlightenment.

The Dalai Lama is a being with great momentums, however, there are many many beings with increible spiritual momentum's embodied around the world in very normal lives, and it is simply up to us to remember and take back our power. We live in a celebrity culture and it is time the people realized the power lies within them, not the famous person outside of them...

The Dalai Lama is special -- just like you and me

Anyone who does his spiritual practices and carves out his path will achieve exponential gains, and because we are spiritually connected, your clearing will help others experience peace and balance.

With the internet and the abundance of spiritual teachers it is more available than ever before. Someone from Romania told me that Yoga used to be banned in their country!?!
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Old 12-30-2009, 05:02 AM   #50
Gnosis5
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Default Re: understanding death

I almost forgot about this experience:

At work we had hired an East Indian man to help us with a project. He told me that he knew of a Yogi who had said "goodbye" to everybody and left his body peacefully. Something twigged inside of me and I looked at that man and said to him, "I can do that". I don't know what made me say that, but for some reason at that moment I just knew that I could do that.

That weekend I went home and stayed in my room and gradually brought my breathing down to almost zero. No drugs, no depression or thoughts of suicide. I simply wanted to see if I could control the death process.

When my breath stopped and as soon as my heart started to slow down, I left my body and I saw a lot of "junk" attached to me and so I decided I did not want to leave my body with all that stuff attached. I had not really planned on permanently leaving anyways, just an experiment to see if I could.

As soon as I had that emotional response to what I saw, a tall being rushed in through the closed front door, ran right past me almost out the closed kitchen door, stopped and backed up to where I was and tickled me in the side.

The tickle made me laugh and therefore started up my breathing again. For good measure this being tickled me in the other side, and so I was good to go for another 7 years, it being 7 years ago now.

That being had an energy signature that was mine own, and I have always felt that being was myself from a future lifetime.

It did give me great comfort knowing that I could choose the wisest time to drop my body and do so peacefully and without shock. Of course, I will not be taking any "baggage" with me

Gnosis
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