Nordics

[Sol Invictus]

'Buckle up dorothy, because Kansas is about to go bye bye'.

Nordics are not 'real'. They are not a specie of this gigaverse, nor are they a natural sentinent being in any gigaverse. They are biological machines for 'low vibratory field interaction'. They are the work horse of the shukra who need them to be able to 'interact' at our level.

The Shukra are the beings whom people call 'greys'. The 'Nordics are their tools, nothing more. Neither good or bad, they do their job with no deviation - AI controlled tightly by a system is all they are.

Vibrations. Ever wondered how a person being abducted can float through a wall or locked window? its all about raising or lowering vibrationary fields. The shukra cannot descend to our level so they need to lift us up. However, we got wise to this and started to object. So... they made machines to come give us a 'happy' message and hoping we 'go with them' then abduct and experiment on those poor souls they steal in the night.

Now, the shukra cannot take you against your will, people started thinking about what the hell these bug eyed creatures were, and decided they were not friendly, and free will said 'no, your not taking me'. As said before, this is the reason they created the Nordic beings.


Now, this may be outside alot of peoples comfort zones, but it has to be said. Any one who comes with a 'Nordics were real nice and loved me and gave me a great time' just has terrible false memories implanted to cover over the 'hand over' to the shukra.


The shukra are also a created race, but billions of years old, and in a twist of irony were themselves created by a long extinct race BEORE this universe even came into being, but have now adapted into a sentinet hive minded system forever trying to achieve their created aim of 'domination by deciet'.


In short, the Nordic are to be avoided.

[Carol]

I'm curious as to your source of information regarding the above statement.

[halebox]

Are there many black abductees? Black and white=Grey

[Sol Invictus]

Originally Posted by halebox

Are there many black abductees? Black and white=Grey

was that worth the effort to even type? I mean come on, you used glucose up that could of been put to better use.

[Sol Invictus]

Originally Posted by Carol

I'm curious as to your source of information regarding the above statement.

Well now. My source.

A being made entirely of light photons which is both sentinent and able to do many, many things we as humans would attribute to 'Angels'. Sentinent is a derogatory word when applied to these beings. Four steps removed from the 'Creator' would be a better way of putting it.

In short, I should of been an abductee had they not interceded on my behalf. That was the start of the process 15 years ago of building my understanding of just how mental this world really is, and how many layers it stacks up to make what we blithley call 'reality'.

It also showed me that this universe is one of 128 in our 'gigaverse', and our gigaverse rides on a double helix structure of trillions of other gigaverses in an eternal cycle of rise and fall.

[Carol]

Why is it I'm not surprised. Michau Kaku describes the multi-verse as multi-dimensional much like layers of pages of a book pressed together.

I was gifted with several spontanious spiritual journeys that took me into these various spiritual realms.

Your story sounds wonderous. Perhaps some time you will share more.

[StClair]

What she describes, and it shows in her eyes in the interview, is a "program" (perhaps a holographic projection) because it is known that the Greys can pose as another race.

She was quite evidently abducted by the Greys, and what she describes is a very uncomfortable encounter with the Greys. They deceive people. We know in our DNA not to trust the Greys no matter how they appear in form.

I did not want to say the obvious at first, and I am glad clakkent found the passages in her work to draw your attention to what many others have noticed immediately when watching the interview.

Again, I would like to suggest that those interested in all this read the book "Operation Trojan Horse" by John A. Keel who explains the entire phenomenon in a very level-headed manner.

The real "Nordics" do not abduct people against their wish on to crafts or stuff like that, this is not how they work, and the contact level is completely different and via telepathy. They can also (rarely) appear among people and pass in broad daylight for earth humans.

Usually the "contact" in form of guidance is from their crafts to some of us via an inner seeing. At least that is my experience. With the 3rd eye you can see (sense) the presence of their crafts.

I hope this helps see clearer in the confusion.

[Carol]

StClair, you're up late.

I've wondered about this as most of the positive expereinces involve an invitation, free will, conscious awareness, total recall, no false memory screens and so forth. There is a free exchange of info.

On the other side is the opposite pheonomen. Screen memories, deception, taken against ones will, memory blocked and so on.

I have always felt when there is not a mutual exchange of info, the one holding back is not operating to the good of the other. These grays decieve and cannot be trusted. They are associated with other aliens who feed off of negative emotions and some are just biological robots as well.

I like Alex Collier's description of the aliens he had stayed with for 3 months. It seems his was a very positive experience indeed.

[Sol Invictus]

Let me descirbe the shukra for you. The name 'shukra' is a derogatory term which means 'they who shun the light'.

They really are the darkest form of being. They live and operate in a self sustaining 'hive', with a very harsh caste system or heirachy.

The smallest beings are 'workers', the larger more yellow skinned are 'Dr's', the reptil looking ones are the 'enforcers of will', the heavy almost armoured ones are soldiers to protect the hive, and then you have another layer of small shukra who keep order within the hive.

Unlike the insectoid race they were genetically spliced from, their 'leader' is sterile and a small number of tanks and holding pens are where they 'breed'.

In short, they are a biological 'machine' which is blindly carrying out its intended purpose of subjugating the gigaverse.

However, they are at this very minute getting seven layers of s### kicked out of them.

I'll explain another time about that, but its very heartening indeed to know we have some very strong allies keeping watch over us.

[LadyGolfer]

Hello Clark, I would like to respond to your post as somehow I seem compelled to do so. The astericks are your statements....my own statements follow yours with a dash.

*ill also add that alex said the beings he was in contact with view us as "genetic royalty"- was this wording from alex or was it an exact quote from the beings?

*if a being is advanced and "enlightened" im 100% they wouldnt view ANYTHING as royalty. and the ideas of war in space dont make sense either, look at our stage of development with nukes and now scalar tech,drones,bio-weapons, etc---- dont you think beings thousands,millions,billions years ahead of us technologically would be able to obliterate an enemy or a world in the blink of an eye?- We are all One but realize that "your" 100% is exactly that, "yours". As for beings that are technologically ahead of us, why would they want to obliterate an "enemy" as you state, your wording not mine because there is such a thing as free will to decide what choices we all make, and the thought that every species in space is exactly the same in their technological advances or thought processes is IMO not considering all aspects but a blanket statement on your part.

^i think we are projecting our own limited scope of understanding and quantifying things in ways we can understand- just like when they said god was an old man with a white beard
-are you not doing just that?

*quantum physics points to multi-dimensional existence- I agree with this statement

*TRUE contact is extreeeeemely rare- How would you personally "know" this to be fact?

*my opinion is that any contactee speaking to aliens from a "galactic federation" or "council of light" with a bunch of recycled egyptian names, who's message is to write books that .001% of the population reads, and that who's sole content is that we are destructive and that we shouldnt be is being manipulated - What would the percentage of population reading it have to do with its accuracy? How did you get your percentage data? Was it given to you from some other source or did you do a study and crunch the numbers yourself? IMO I would think that what the majority is reading would be more of the manipulations.
*its manipulation to turn ET's into a kind of messianic religion that teaches how to be in balance and not destroy the planet- Why are statements regarding being in balance and not to destroy the planet a manipulation? Is this not something that certain people feel themselves? Is this not a positive statement as opposed to the beginning of your own statement "it's manipulation"

*the idea of "oneness" and that everything is conscioussess(consciousness) and that we are all connected is something we are collectively starting to understand.- I agree with this portion of the statement.

*my advice is to use serious discernment- I agree

*your(you're) free to think that- that is the beauty of free will, everyone is free to choose their own path, however I must say that the tone in your statements seem to belittle those that choose a different path from yourself....just my own observation.

Originally Posted by clarkkent

ill also add that alex said the beings he was in contact with view us as "genetic royalty"

this should tip you off that you should use some common sense.


someone posted a good saying "the best lie is hidden between two truths"

its manipulation to turn ET's into a kind of messianic religion that teaches how to be in balance and not destroy the planet.


we dont need aliens to tell us the obvious and science is coming closer to spirituality everyday with quantum mechanics and the idea of "oneness" and that everything is conscioussess and that we are all connected is something we are collectively starting to understand, and it wasnt because some aliens made some random people write books in the new age section at barnes and nobles.

believing that benevolent blue eyed beautiful nazi ET's that use mind control and erase your free will to serve them as well as use invasive surgery and have robo-grey slaves is up to you. if there evening news message of "head for the hills be afraid, be very afraid" or that our planet can only support 300 million people (straight from george greens pleiadians) and that depopulation HAS to happen, is up to you. my advice is to use serious discernment and not eat up every contactee/abductee that fits the prevailing paradigm.

personally i find it funny that all those messages and techniques fall in line with the illuminati's ideas (hiding from the catastrophy/mind control/fear to rule/de population/white master race)

if ALL that just seems like a wacky coincidence then your free to think that.

i know this isnt the thrust at avalon but i hope some contrary ideas wont upset the goal and mission statement. bill has stated that you can always go elsewhere, hopefully i wont have to.

You make a lot of good points there. Just to be clear, I don't claim to have the answers. That's why I'm asking questions. I certainly don't believe in messiahs of ANY description, and I don't believe in the head-for-the-hills fear based mindset either.

And I don't believe in coincidences, wacky or otherwise.

Edit- to removed unneccesary parts of the quote

Thank you for sharing that MT. I've seen a lot of the DP interviews, they were what led me (physically at least) into this area, and I have a lot of respect for all the people involved.

Blessings

Edit- to remove quote

[clarkkent]

let me state, that im not claiming to have all the answers...i might come to my own conclusions. and for all i know st clair is right (about his overall view -radiant zones and such)

my statements are my own observations about ufology and the idea of REAL possible manipulation and super confusion regarding all this phenomena.

what st clair said (eventhough i might disagree with him sometimes) points to
that we should ALWAYS use our intuition and discernment. if what he says is true, then miriam has been manipulated which in turn meant bill and kerry were as well and then passed that manipulation unknowingly over to half the population here.

which means that in this sea of truth and manipulation its imperative to use ones own BS meter. and im sorry if when im using mine it comes off as judgemental for those who believe otherwise. my opinion is in the minority so i usually just state it as a counter argument with out qualifying every statement as "this is what i think, its not a fact"

but with that in mind if it gets you questioning or using you "gut" then thats not a bad thing.

again my opinion.

[meneliel]

Originally Posted by clarkkent

future illuminati nazi's? decide for yourself. (ps- miriam delicado left out that she felt herself go into a "robot" -read mind controlled-- state and found traces of surgery and a mental note, to "forget it, it will heal up" etc...sounds pretty peaceful/benevolent/enlightened eh?)

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...0000-baby.aspx

http://www.heatherpringle.com/books/master_reviews.html

heres an excerpt from her website and book.

""Do not be afraid, I kept hearing in my head. Do not be afraid. Get out of the car. I reached for the door handle and slowly opened the car door. It was like watching my body; I had no control. Why am I getting out of the car? I thought. It was like I was standing beside myself watching what I was doing while my brain couldn’t communicate with my body."

I found that quite odd.

Here's another quote from her sample chapter

"I walked into the house with my bags and took them up to my room. As I took my coat off I looked down at my favourite beige shirt. There was some sort of black smear on it. As soon as I noticed it I slipped back into a robotic state. I took the shirt off and put it directly in the garbage. Not only did I put it in the garbage but I also took it to the bin outside. Why? I kept asking myself even as I was doing it: it was my favourite shirt. Why not try to clean it? Even Sally tried to get me to attempt to clean it first, but I got angry with her so she dropped the subject.

After disposing of the shirt I went back up to my room. There was a dull ache on the right side of my abdomen. When I looked down at the area I noticed a round red spot about two inches in diameter. In the center there was what appeared to be an incision. Once again I heard a voice in my head. It was telling me, Do not to look at it again. Leave it alone and it will go away. There is no need to be concerned. I put my nightshirt on and didn’t look at it again for months."

Hello all :-)

When I watched Miriam's interview I got mixed feelings. I first tried to focus on the "message" and tried to avoid thinking or "judging" the messenger. When I finished watching the interview I was happy with the message and many things she said resonated with me, however there was something that kept me thinking about Miriam for days!!! For me, something about her was just not right, but I did not know what! I was thinking: yes, the message apparently sounds right, but there is definitely something wrong...

Then yesterday I realized what it was!!!

The first thing about her story that got me uncomfortably was the violation of free will! I've never have had any encounter with any alien race (not that I know anyways), but what I know for sure is if that would ever happen to me, I definitely want to be conscious and not be forced! No matter how "good" this entities are! I don't accept anyone taking me against my free will!

So, IMHO this is a disinformation message!!!!!!

No mean to disrespect Miriam, nor Bill or Kerry! I feel Miriam is being honest and B&K are trying to do their best to keep us informed and give us different perspectives. Also, there are many things Miriam says that for me are right! It is just that there are "lies between the truths"

I have the strong feeling that Miriam was abducted by grays, or whatever race, government agency, or whatever you want to call it! She was not in contact with any "evolved beings", she was tricked to believe that, and was given a truth message (arguably of course, depending on people's view point), or at least a message that many truth seekers would believe and resonate with. But then she is sending a subliminal message to the audience! (this is what I realized yesterday) And that message is: "IT IS OK TO BE ABDUCTED AGAINST YOUR FREE WILL IF THE ALIENS LOOK LIKE NORDICS (OR WHATEVER RACE YOU FEEL CONFIDENT WITH) AND IT IS OK THAT THEY PERFORM ANY SURGERY ON YOU! DON´T WORRY, THEY ARE THE GOOD GUYS"
I believe she is not doing this on purpose, I think this is the hidden agenda of whoever abducted her!

Fortunately many people have realized there is something wrong, but there are many people that would probably fall for it (unconsciously), and if they are under a similar abduction situation they will believe it is perfectly fine because the same happened to Miriam Delicado!!

Yeah, she talked about "looking in the eyes" of the being and therefore know what their intentions are, but, if it has been previously imprinted in your mind that it is not so bad that they take you against your free will because the "scenario" looks similar that Miriam´s , then many people would let be abducted more easily. On the other hand, as far as I know, this beings can easily control your mind and thoughts (if you are not trained enough, which I think is a great majority), so it doesn´t matter if you look straight into their eyes, they will take you anyways if they somehow manipulate your thoughts and make them connect that situation with Miriam´s.

In my case, I appreciate the parts of the message that resonate with me (like having seeds, and grow my own vegetables and stuff, something I´ve been thinking of doing anyways). But I am also aware and beware of the misinformation in between.

Never surrender your free will!!!

Namaste

[halebox]

Originally Posted by Sol Invictus

was that worth the effort to even type? I mean come on, you used glucose up that could of been put to better use.

The 1st question was honest Ive not heard of any black abductees have you? The second part was loosley based on the future human nazi types becoming nordics and the mix breeders eventually becoming greys.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Martian Tigress

I work as a volunteer for the Disclosure Project, so I have had the good fortune to hear some of the witnesses' stories in person. Interestingly, they pretty much all say the same thing: scary, controlling abductions are secret-government/military operations to insure that contactees stay terrorized and that non-contactees shy away from the whole contact issue.

There is a big problem with this neat partition into "scary, controlling abductions = secret gov/black ops VS positive, supportive encounters = real friendly ETs." It fails to acknowledge that secret gov/black operators AND extraterrestrials can BOTH deceptively present themselves as "friendly ETs". These account for virtually ALL friendly encounters in my opinion.

Also there has likely been joint alien/human societies underground for ages and these are likely in league with surface secret gov't forces. For all these reasons i am very wary of three kinds of contactees.

1) Those who "protesteth too much" about having NO military intelligence relationships... ala Miriam.

2) Those who emerge straight out the bowels of deep black intelligence groups to blow their whistles. I suspect that they and others who talk about "my friends in CIA" etc will not bite too hard on the hand that feeds and protects them. And where is the discourse in the Disclosure Project about "ETs" and black gov't operators who deceptively present themselves as "concerned and helpful ETs"?

and 3) everyone else who is contacted by entities who proclaim themselves "extraterrestrial" as if that was the ultimate credential to prove their spiritual ID and orientation. It is not.

And who isn't an "extra-terrestrial" anyway. Every soul who incarnates on this planet is "extra-terrestrial" in the strictest sense of the word. No soul originates on planet earth. All are spiritual beings sojourning here in the cycles of time and space and all will eventually transcend the Earth to return to origin in the higher planes.

Originally Posted by Martian Tigress

They also say that while individual groups of Skypeople hold differing views on things, they are all peaceful, and interact peacefully with one another.

As Mandy Rice- Davies would have said .. "They would say that wouldn't they."

Just as i wouldn't jump to a conclusion that all ETs are evil, i also wouldn't be too quick to take friendly encounters at face value and conclude that friendly "ETs" (or earth-humans) are trustworthy just because they're friendly and powerful and knowledgable. Things are more complex and i'd like to see more acknowledgement of those complexities all round..... including in the analyses of Project Camelot and Disclosure Project interviews.

So this thread is a breath of fresh air.

The "powers that be" always seek to control the dialogue -- even in the most unlikely places -- and they always seek to control a "new paradigm" by presenting us with 2 false choices. There are many layers to that onion.

[Richard T]

I find that ClarkKent is tackling this intelligently. If opposed, he does not turn the table around with one liners of the type (so are you), which brings nothing to the table and reduces the vibration of a conversation instead of going further.

People have not realized yet that you can discover a lot when talking outside of the thinking box. Actually, more can be discovered this way than by nearly any other means, short of being directly and consciously plugged to a systemic entity.

Humanity is still quite susceptible to concepts of superiority. And, of course most of the time, we feel good when it is our own who is recognized as having a plus. We all know the idea behind flattery.

Eugenics is a normal procedure in the universe. It is no great matter to a race who knows not death to seek and evolve the material vehicle it uses. Such a race has no attachment to the form, it creates the form.

We, on the other hand, are captive of the form, we identify to the form, so the form has become sacred.

There are more than one way to consider a concept of 'royalty'.
The first one is obviously the concept that comes with the word itself and is historically based.
But words are forms that carry a vibration. They are a mode of transport for spirit.

And out of the vibration, which those intelligences have not been willing to express directly and without the use of words that allow interpretation, out of that vibration comes the recognition of the origin of the spirit of man.
And that origin is extremely advanced.
This cannot be obvious just looking at the current state of humankind, I know.
But what the full recognition of this does is remove the need of an individual to prove himself, to elevate himself at the expense of others, and to stick to the false identity that supports his existence as a psychological persona.

We don't need to be told the obvious by aliens, to paraphrase ClarkKent.
But we can examine what stating the obvious does to psychology.

For one, it reinforces human concepts. It give them a sort of 'higher' validating reference point.
Then, it increases the impression of being right, creating the illusion that we already are somewhere, when we have not even started our evolutionary path yet.
In doing so, the third thing that happens is that the contactee surrenders his own intelligence to the perceived superiority of the visitor.
Finaly, strong of his impression of being in the truth of the matter, he goes onto a mission.

I am certain that any person who is given a mission, or that gives himself a mission, regardless of the apparent positive or negative impressions of those who receive the 'teachings' is hired by forces that seek to manipulate humanity into its weaknesses.

What I mean by this is that they reinforce weaknesses using the resonance of positive vs negative, some sort of good cop bad cop scenario.

One aspect that never filters through is their actual agenda.

No one is going to make me believe that they come to deliver a message.

At best, they are preparing humanity to their presence, knowing that most would not stand the shock without having first been fed platitudes.

At worst, they are helping humanity remain longer in their ignorance.

I certainly have no interest for running naked in the field with flowers between my teeth.

[Argante]

Originally Posted by halebox

The 1st question was honest Ive not heard of any black abductees have you? The second part was loosley based on the future human nazi types becoming nordics and the mix breeders eventually becoming greys.

Actually, one of the first abduction stories I ever heard involved a black man, Barney Hill.

Betty and Barney Hill Abduction




.

Originally Posted by Richard T

Eugenics is a normal procedure in the universe. It is no great matter to a race who knows not death to seek and evolve the material vehicle it uses. Such a race has no attachment to the form, it creates the form.

We, on the other hand, are captive of the form, we identify to the form, so the form has become sacred.

There are more than one way to consider a concept of 'royalty'.
The first one is obviously the concept that comes with the word itself and is historically based.
But words are forms that carry a vibration. They are a mode of transport for spirit.

"The investigation of human eugenics, that is, of the conditions under which men of a high type are produced." [Galton, "Human Faculty," 1883]

The problem there is who gets to decide the definition of "men of a high type." I believe the Nazis used Eugenics as part of their aryan superman ideology, and look where that took them spiritually- grotesque experiments on 'lesser races,' the holocaust etc.

The body IS a vehicle for the spirit. I don't believe the 'quality' of the body determines the 'quality' of the spirit any more than I believe blonde hair and blue eyes are an indication of 'high type.' CK pointed out that Miriam left out of the Camelot interview the part about being controlled and the surgery she suffered without her consent at the hands of these blonde haired, blue eyed superbeings.

Still, I'm sure they're telling the truth and only have our best interests at heart. I'm sure they don't have their own agenda at all.


sa·cred (skrd)
adj.
1. Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity.
2. Worthy of religious veneration: the sacred teachings of the Buddha.
3. Made or declared holy: sacred bread and wine.
4. Dedicated or devoted exclusively to a single use, purpose, or person: sacred to the memory of her sister; a private office sacred to the President.
5. Worthy of respect; venerable.
6. Of or relating to religious objects, rites, or practices.


Nowhere in there does it say anything about 'perfect' or 'high type.' WE are sacred REGARDLESS of what shape or colour the body is. You can dress eugenics up any way you like but IMO it's nothing more than intellectual camoflague for nazi master race bull***t.


Edit- Sorry, missed this definition of sacred:

3. regarded as too important to be changed or interfered with

[clarkkent]

i was just thinking today, no matter what we think we know we are limited by our 3D worldview and still dont except that its literally (from what i know) impossible to leave a human 3D perspective.

putting things in "good" and "bad" is a natural thing, when really there is no such thing. the point of life is to exist and that means survive and evolve.

we need a yin for our yang.

thats why the idea (as much as i like it) of "of light beings/pure love" doesnt resonate. im sure there are beings we would deem positive and or negative which are both relative terms. one isnt better than the other--which isnt to say that there arent what we'd see as "benevolent" beings but to say the whole universe ALL good from this evolutionary point on doesnt make sense. lambs sheep deer and geese arent "good" just because they dont kill eachother, nor are lions,tigers and bears "oh my" ...they arent "bad" because they do rip a rabbit to shreds. both are in balance. is the grass "good" because it doesnt harm the deer? or is the deer "bad" because it destroys the grass? again theyre neither they simply "are" and work together, energy always fluctuating and being transformed...

if we are consciousness and we get to experience the totality of reality then that means EVERYTHING is valid, a peice of poo to a great work of art to a supernova. from a "grey" or a nazi or anything else.

anyhow im off topic, its taken me a while to immerse my self in "alien/gov black ops, multi dimesional reality" etc. frankly i only started to investigate this phenomena since june/july when i heard the edgar mitchell news and freaked out. it was the coolest (for lack of a better word) news id heard basically in my life.

ive gone from being an agnostic/atheist to believing in a "universal mind" and re incarnation. and for all i know im sure these concepts are inherently kindergarten level at best given all that is impossible to understand.

i know our civilization is at an apex and ive always felt i would see some cosmic sized activity go down. im only still just beginning to understand how convoluted and difficult this whole subject is, all my threads and posts are just to inject a heavy dose of looking "outside the box" as richard said, which is VERY difficult. but if you always look at WHO is saying WHAT-- and what they can GET out of leading you to think that.

and considering the multi dimensional aspect and the bazzilion different time lines scenario and co creation , getting "YOU" to "THINK" a certain way is probably more important than YOU THINK.

thanks for everyones input in this thread.

you can look at this way also, would you ever like to be kidnapped by unknown people in a stange car with no plates on it?

if i would encounter these 'nordics' i would ask why they disguise themselves cause this surely gives a wrong impression on a level of honesty towards strangers.

at least they could explain why they are taking you and making you do things without your own control over it.

but in most cases there is no Q&A allowed.

the "we won't hurt you and we are your family" is the same kind of trick were children get abducted with, here is some candy now will you follow me?

[isotelesis]

Royalty in the sense that unlike many varieties of life forms out there, our creation was probably intended to be a means of karmic consolidation, obviously there is a lot of genetic memory to work through.

The methods in which they seek to improve the stock of the human gene pool have been quite idealistic, certainly lacking a proper appreciation for the holographic aspects of reproduction. In order to produce a truly viable species for the long term, we must learn to value multi-talented individuals, to become more like packs of wolves rather than castrated domesticated canines.

Therefore a true eugenicist is not a farmer which isolates animals into particular breeds for intended tasks, but seeks the best traits of the various types, creating a human which has the strengths of them all.

[Anticomuna]

This thread is so interesting because the questions made by Clark Kent are similar to the ones I have. I have been researching this alien thing for the last months.

Basically I have the same doubts about ETs and abductions. First of all, most of abduction cases look like something else, either some deceptive person, or a person that is honest but is misinterpreting some natural phenomenon (like sleep paralysis, which I have had it many times and I know it can be scary or fun). Sometimes it sounds like brainwashing or something not good.

The contactees are also suspicious. Many of them seem to use some repackaged master-race nonsense. Alex Collier in one example, but not the only one.

But what bothers me the most is the idea of a Big Brother. This is not good. It is almost as if these so called aliens were "superior" and had the right to tell us what to do. Even if they are, who cares? Why would they bother with this planet or with us? Why would they pick one person to write books and give presentations and not show themselves in a very clear way for thousands at once (not necessarily socializing, but at least showing themselves off with a ship or something in a densely populated area)? Why do we need to believe in something that we should know?

If they don't bother to show themselves off, either they don't exist or they don't trust us. If they exist and don't trust us, even those that actively research for these things, why should we trust them? Isn't trust necessary for any kind of relationship? Isn't it a two-way street?

Workers of light? No, thanks. I prefer my Terran origin and I would rather take my own decisions and commit my own mistakes than be somebody else's puppet.

[Fredkc]

To begin with, lemme say that I have not seen nor read the Miriam interview, so I'm basically reacting to the reactions, but here goes anyway. I am hesitant to judge another's experience. I mean, to draw an impression from someone else's impression is already 2nd order info, at best. Not only that even our own impressions are/could be subject to something planted within our own experience. Then theres a quote I picked up from the Camelot side...
"The lie is different ar every level."

Besides, as anyone who was there could tell you,
"Raymond Shaw is the kindest, warmest, bravest, most wonderful man I have ever met."

"Do not be afraid, I kept hearing in my head. Do not be afraid."

Hauntingly familiar... I recall having a "lucid dream" back in about 1980 (the time's a bit dodgy, but at least 2 decades ago). I awoke on a table, in a room with maybe 4 "others" around me. The room table, people, everything was so brightly illuminated I couldn't make out anything distinctly. It seemed a surgery of some sort, whether physical, or "electrical" was going on. I was dinner. Upon discovering I was aware, someone said, "It's ok, relax. Go back to sleep, you're being re-wired."

Next morning when I woke up ,what bothered me as much as the possibility of the entire event was the fact that I simply went along with it. "Oh. Ok"
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One I wrote off long ago, which has given me a bit of pause is from early childhood; say 7 to 11 yrs of age. That was the notion I was one of "the ones" that an off-world race was here to observe. That those chosen for this scrutiny had watchers assigned them. These watchers could make their perceived shape exactly like anyone you'd pass on the street.

I wrote off this whole notion soon after as either some childhood fantasy, or some "race mind" shared illusion. Almost embarrassed to say that for a few months, this bothered me enough that I would make noise on purpose walking down the hall, lest I sneak up on my parents, before they could "done the disguise (seems a riot now). What made me discard and then bring back the memory of it was the true shape of these critters, as I had never seen/read anyone who came up with the same description. Till a lil while ago. They were close to, but not quite like a preying mantis.
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i think we are projecting our own limited scope of understanding and quantifying things in ways we can understand- just like when they said god was an old man with a white beard.

i was just thinking today, no matter what we think we know we are limited by our 3D worldview and still dont except that its literally (from what i know) impossible to leave a human 3D perspective.

Kinda funny, ain't it? Our two failings in life appear to be:
1. The inability to lift our own body, no matter how firm the grip on our belt loops, and
2. The ability to fully envision and comprehend an intelligence greater than our own. The reverse of the "Thick As A Brick" notion.
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Whatever other manner in which you wish to quantify our existence, I am certain we are an infinite being (soul? etc) created by another one. That this physical investiture is an appendage, of sorts.

That, coupled with the fact that as a child, I lived in another country for several years. One where "whites" were both a miniscule minority, and largely disliked. What I gained from this, then returning to the US, was a genuine experience of what it's like from both sides.

What I have taken from this includes:
1. Race ain't nuttin! If you gots a belly button then you're in the club. (Yes I know Hitchcock didn't have one, but that was surgery. He arrived with one)
2. The notion theres any difference, other than being physically better endowed for different part of this rock, is a bit silly. After all, to follow this notion to some semblence of a logical conclusion would take you to some notion that the soul either doesn't exist, or emanates from the body. Both are non-starters for me.
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Nordics! Greys! Reptiles! Heinz 57! Oh my!
And they say WE'RE the ones over-populating this rock!! JEEZ!! He heh.

Not being able to see 100% beyond the veil of all this, I really can't say who is "real", who isn't, etc among all this lot. But one thing I do suspect is true is this:

Though some fear it, loathe it, envy it, or just plain can't figger it out, what we do have they all place value on is our free will. That this even includes some agreeing through the excercise of same, to give it away has got to be an attraction all on it's own. But I have a hunch this is at the crux of the attraction. And whats brought so many here, now.

Anyway... I've wandered as far as I can for the moment.

Fred

[corie blunt]

Originally Posted by BPhill

Very hairy topic this one eh?

I'll continue to observe this thread until I have something concrete to say...which maybe I should have thought of before posting this but even I who's spent nearly my whole adult life trying to address this question have come nowhere near an answer. (Which in no way makes me an authority on the subject...I'm just saying....)

on the real bphill j dilla changed my life too