Infiltration with Communities

[sjkted]

I would like to ask everyone as an open question: when building a community, what is the best way to prevent infiltration? I think it's safe to say that if there are enough people working together building communities and networking together, developing knowledge, processes and infrastructure that the other side is going to be interested in infiltrating and doing their usual game of divide and conquer.

When I say this, I think of post-WWII Germany as they went through a de-Nazification process.

Bill and Kerry: Would you be willing to pose this question to some of your interviewees such as George Green?

--sjkted

[Pithiny]

Timely post, I've been wondering the same thing. Beyond believing that alignment with the Light protects us, there must be a minimum set of criteria as to how to protect ourselves. Deep cover infiltrators will be difficult to spot by current limited 3rd density means. I propose each group needs at least one HIGHLY developed soul with extraordinary abilities to aid those of us (like me) that need some simmering to get up to speed. Faith only goes so far, these people are insidious.

[whitecrow]

Originally Posted by sjkted

I would like to ask everyone as an open question: when building a community, what is the best way to prevent infiltration?

I'm not sure it is possible to prevent infiltration. You have to assume there are spies, just as there surely are right here in these forums. What will we do if we catch a spy? Kill him? It wouldn't take much at all for us to regress right back to the level we came from...and we can be sure that'll happen in some cases. No way this is going to be easy or simple.

[sjkted]

I wouldn't say to kill the person, but I think some consideration should be given to the types of group / community information that could destabilize the operation or put the entire group at risk.

Perhaps it would be best to have groups limited to a certain size which communicate with each other. If a group of 50 people were started, it would be easy to infiltrate and the consequences would be serious. On the other hand, it would be much harder to infiltrate 10 groups of 5 that loosely collaborated with each other. If a group was infiltrated, it wouldn't be substantial and the unaffected members could just start another group elsewhere.

That said, I have some questions about would be infiltrators:

I understand it would be next to impossible to background check members and even if we could and they were with the other side, they would have the means to wipe and recreate their history. A good indicator would be your "gut" feeling about other people, but I wouldn't consider this to be 100% accurate at identifying infiltrators.

So, who would these people be in real life?

Would they be Illuminati children? CIA agents? UN soldiers? When all of this gets started, with whom would they be communicating and how would they communicate? What types of information should be considered sensitive at what stages? What type of information could destabilize an operation and put the members at risk?

What covert actions would they be involved in that identifies them as the opposition?

I have some ideas myself, but I just wanted to hear what everyone else was thinking about this.

--sjkted

[Mike_Jetson]

Small groups is the key, always has been

[visual co-creator]

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[sjkted]

If our communities grow strong and self-sufficient and well organized, it's very existence will threaten the new governments. Do you choose to be free or to be a slave? The governments will want to squash out any alternatives to being a slave.

[Zynox]

Infiltration Signs and Response - 101

The following is a preliminary response to your question. I will research this some more with contacts that have built communities, and addressed this issue.

1) Detection - While it may be expected that infiltrators will be smooth operators, the absolute critical detection system is observation of actions, especially actions which deviate from stated intentions. Each community might assign an observation crew as a set of defined responsibilities for the health of the community. This is not a fear based ordeal, as there is also a necessity to watch for reasonable compatability of all community members. It is customary for communities to have necessity to request disruptive members to depart, simply because these members jeopardize the community health.

Michael has a segment in his books about this (disruptive members), and we know this at a visceral level, we feel this in the solar plexus / gut of our wise bodies.

2) Tactics - To prevent, detect and respond, it may prove useful to read Sun Tzu on the Art of War. The entire premise of peace and harmony is best addressed proactively, not retroactively. Think creation of safe, peaceful and radiant zones and then take the preliminary measures necessary to nurture the creation at conception.

NAMASTE

[Excalibur]

I can definitely see the PTB monitoring what information is getting out here, and if accurate, trying to track it back to the source to close the loop on leaks, and definitely putting disinformation out to muddy the water, but I wonder if they would go to the level of actually trying to infiltrate the groups with HUMINT. Seems like that level would take alot of resources. I think we would be able to sniff them out sooner or later. Probably a good idea to brush up on intel collection methods in order to have a basic understanding of counterintelligence. Definitely a huge concern sjkted. I was thinking the same thing myself.

[steve_johnson#985907-1]

i don't think you need worry about spies. the government is the all seeing eye. if they are going to squash you they will by ridicule. if they really fear you they will just make you disappear. build away.

[MartyMcFailure]

infiltrators might not seem all that disruptive when ur with them. i agree with the human who said it'd be key to a nice and developed old soul on the team that has good intuitive skills.
but each community will have to sort out for itself how to organize and make decisions. like on lost, no one elected jack the leader but he was being active and people followed him.
infiltrators are a sneaky bunch! when u r dealing with life and death scenarios people can easily go lord of the flies. infiltrators may not be so bad compared to psychos who will do anything to survive or get what they think they need to survive. the smaller the better or stay on ur own till u figure out where u belong. i think mobility will be just as or more important especially at first. that means hone ur skills. go on survival camping trips and plant a garden in ur backyard. forget the infiltrators for now i say. donnie brasco was an infiltrator but he basicallly became one of them by going through the experiences. they cant do s*** to you unless you fear them and unconsciously allow it. ever hear david icke talk about that? listen to this edgar cayce and the cosmos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEtsc...eature=related

[NewParadigmGuy]

The "Handbook for the New Paradigm" covers this issue quite thoroughly and effectively.

[Pithiny]

LINK to the ONLINE Version:

Handbook for the New Paradigm - Volume One
http://www.trufax.org/handbooks/paradigmvol1.html

..."This Internet Edition of the Handbook for the New Paradigm was kindly provided by George Green upon my request in order to provide the whole planet with the opportunity to view the material. It was posted back in21 October 1999 as a service for those interested in the material. Good for those people just coming from religious belief systems and seeking to expand beyond their current perspective.

Note: The Handbook for the New Paradigm is composed of several volumes of messages purported to be telepathically received from an advanced Ultra-Dimensional race by George Green. You are obviously expected to view this material with discernment ,evaluate it on your own terms and in accordance with your experience. It will mean different things different people, like anything else. The material seems to be of service to people, and for that reason it exists here. Find what is of use to you in terms of your life journey .... and have fun! Val" ..."

Where is the portion about infiltrators?

[NewParadigmGuy]

Read messages #3 and #16.

[whitecrow]

Originally Posted by sjkted

...I think some consideration should be given to the types of group / community information that could destabilize the operation or put the entire group at risk.

Good point. Early is the best time to start thinking these things through.

Perhaps it would be best to have groups limited to a certain size which communicate with each other.

I agree. Small, independent cells is what makes groups like Earth First! so hard to infiltrate. If you're basically talking about a resistance movement, these things are always high-risk. Secure communications is key, and assuming the Internet or cell phones are either unavailable or too risky (duh), then we're back to leaving a note behind the loose brick at the bus stop. Codes and ciphers would become necessary. In these kinds of situations, I'd say go low-tech and devilishly clever.

Would they be Illuminati children? CIA agents? UN soldiers?

I think they'd just as likely be the guys from across the river wanting to steal your women and chickens. They could be anyone, and that's part of the problem...paranoia. There are many different scenarios, and one thing I've learned is that our worst fears seldom come to pass. Sometimes of course they do. But fear is the great paralyzer.

We want to be prepared, but we have to recognize that we can't prepare for every possibility. I think that if we should find ourselves in the kind of situation you envision, we'll have to find people we rely on...and then rely on them.

If THEY're high-tech and we are not, then we must use subterfuge. If you're talking weaponry, we're at a huge disadvantage. If you're talking psy-ops, we probably have more on our side, including the moral high ground. But treachery and experience will trump youth and idealism every time. Never forget that.

...I was curious about this post because I found it to be a question juxtaposed to my ordinary interaction with my environment. When reviewing the threads in the forum, the implications of "infiltration" suddenly filled my mind, when I read the title. Interestingly, this was a mixed thought...including concern, resignation, and joy.

I was concerned because, certainly, infiltration by an enemy could be very dangerous. My concern immediately focused on possible enemies, and the dangers they could present. The more I thought about it, though, the fewer enemies I was able to readily identify. Really, I could only suspect that certain people in my environment, "might be" enemies...but I don't actually know every individual near me, right now. I suspect this might seem like a "duh!", and that the whole point of "infiltrators" is that you do not know them.

I thought about everyone I knew...and I wondered if any of them would qualify as an "enemy". Without doubt, there are many people I know, that I do not trust...but it is not because they will kill me, necessarily...I have just learned that they have a very loose affinity for the truth. They have proven to me that their lives, and the lives of those they interact with, are poisoned by their "un-truths". I typically do not choose to enmesh my life with these people, beyond the expectations of community or profession, because I do not like to waste my precious time with deception or drama.

I thought about everyone I didn't know...and in wondering if any of these people qualified as an "enemy", I came to the same conclusion...no! Again, I figured there would be some that I couldn't trust...and some that I might not specifically appreciate...but I had no particular reason why I might not trust or like them. I can only guess that they would match my experience, and that there would be a few who thrived on deception and drama...but I REALLY didn't know. Further, I couldn't clearly determine what it is they might be infiltrating. There will obviously be communities of people struggling to survive, if some of the sinister scenarios we have become aware of, bear fruit...but how would they be vulnerable to infiltration? With what currency will "traitors-to-be" be paid? It seems to me that only in the beginning of these separations of community, will differentiation be made between "privilege" and "truth". The very down-to-Earth business of survival will easily identify those who readily bond with their neighbors to achieve a common purpose. I would hope that these groups would have learned that the idea of "difference" or "belief" as a separatist policy...is where the whole trouble began, in the first place.

Ultimately, I was brought to joy. I imagined being a member of a community that actively addressed practical issues of living, treasuring independent perspectives, while lovingly self-policing itself. I thought that being an outsider to this group would NATURALLY make me wish to infiltrate it. For whatever reason I might find for being an "interloper" to this environment, I would welcome the opportunity to be included in the logistical navigation of their collective safety. If the group were unhappy, or frightened, or paranoid...I wouldn't particularly wish to be a part of it. If I had been commissioned to "infiltrate" this thriving community, by others who wished to destroy it...I would immediately question my motives, and the reward I am offered to do so. It is likely that any motives or rewards would fall far short of the joy of being included in such a community.

Isn't the whole point of any of these things which may or may not come about...the truth? How can a society fueled by the truth, spend time expecting others to be a part of deceptive infiltration? Unless truthful activity becomes illegal, shouldn't it be celebrated? Even if the truth becomes illegal, does a community have the right to automatically assume deception on the part of others...ESPECIALLY if they stand apart from such a travesty?

These are just my thoughts...and perhaps the majority will see it differently. I think that natural law will only be delayed by the continuation of suspicion and mistrust. I am a VERY experienced human...and I know there are others who will align against truth. My "experience" is that war, at ANY level, just does not succeed. I know that some will die because of contrast in ideology, but this is a return to nature, in a way. There are only so many ideologues in the world who cannot abide by others...and their NATURAL attrition will ultimately yield governance to the people. WHEN truth becomes the natural order, it is likely that we will ALL be infiltrators, at one point or another. The single idea that we should resist oppression, doesn't necessarily qualify us for admission to a "truthful" society.

I am resigned to the thought that "infiltrators" will be a concept that is difficult for people to transform into the "potentials" these people actually represent. Regardless their origin, they represent skills, labor, and intelligence...vital resources to a "truthful" society. To react to them in a traditional way, with killing and violence, is to abandon the premise upon which all of this effort is being expended.

[Angel of the Mists]

Hekura....hello and welcome, and thank you for your post.

I have just read through this thread and was aware of a growing sense of uneasiness and a degree of surprise at how quickly we appear to resort to old 'methods'. To put it even more simply, what I am picking up is a great deal of suspision and fear. If that is what is being put out within a group, then that is what will be generated within the group and be attracted.

I whole heartedly resonate with you observation:
'......."infiltrators" will be a concept that is difficult for people to transform into the "potentials" these people actually represent. Regardless their origin, they represent skills, labor, and intelligence...vital resources to a "truthful" society. To react to them in a traditional way, with killing and violence, is to abandon the premise upon which all of this effort is being expended.'

This is our 'opportunity', alluded to yesterday on another thread looking at interpersonal relationships. Perhaps we all have different motives for joining a community and if some of those motives appear to be less honourable, so be it. As a community we can transform and support and help each member to develop and shift to a different level.
I absolutely believe we can transform our own experience of each other by shifting away from suspicion and fear.....and moving into understanding and love.

Angel

[ARE WE THERE YET]

WoW!

Divide and conquer- The enemy- infiltrators.

From what I have learned. Should we be living in a senario of groups eeking out an existance in the dust. I have to say why would they bother planting spies. That is only if they have a real threat to fight and things to lose.

If you have a community running are we all going to be looking over our shoulders at each other. And if you happen to disagree with a consensus will the group turn on you and kill you.
Reminds me of the movie. The Island.

If a group is working exactly as that a group then any outsider spy would be easily detectable. Can you all see how you could easily be made to turn on each other.

None of us truly no what to expect but the only way you would get me to act like them is if they are an open and direct threat to the ones I love.

Lets show them a better way!

I do feel this topic requires alot of thought and baby steps before we all run over the edge of a cliff.

[Sunnely]

This question is important, and just a quick reply - NOW I and hopefully others, can relate to WHY there was a need for certain intellectuals, prophets and "magicians" to go underground/work in secret societies -

I know there is alot of miscredits done towards large groups of people, based on some rotten eggs within a group, causing trouble.

I have several ideas, but it is kind off sci-fi and I will present them when I have developed my site, so I can be clear with the idea.

We must all learn about psychology though, about psychopaths, narcissism, different anti-empatic disorders, how we can be brainwashed, seduced, taken advantage off... knowledge is vital.

Though, the sci-fi idea I have is involving techniqal equipment, so I will have to get back on that.

ADD: Personally I am too very experienced in growing up in a tough environment. I have interacted for a long time on forums, discussing things that are both involving spirituality (and in that section we have brainwashing, secret agendas, sects, dogmas etc) plus conspiracys (3D world business corporation that in their service or product do go to war, both literally in the physical sense, and intelligence-industrial spyinig to get to know the conquering businessystem to gain more advantage, control and thereby own the market, and control it) we are talking taking over a market in order to control information through media etc.

I must say that I am disappointed at many so called Lightworkers, because I have often found that they are living in denial of what it happening in 3D world. I am open to a discussion about this, cuz who says I hold the truth, I can only relate from my own experience, analyses and I am limited based on that I do not know it all - but, there ARE less evolved beeings / spirits "around"; that do thrive on and get a kick out of inflicting pain, cause disturbance and chaos... do they have that as a task? Is that a divine mission, who knows - just look at how our awareness have grown, and we as people have been kind of forced to "step up a notch" - THROUGH THE THINGS WE ARE NOW FACING - that is: a threat to our survival, right?

So, would we be here in this forum AT ALL, if it wasnt for those that have triggered a need for us to ACTIVELY EVOLVE and find our own higher potential.

But, just becuse WE might be having this loving generous and goodhearted intention - doesnt mean that others are "just like you". SWEET THOUGHT, and I wish it was that "in reality" - but I know that is NOT the case. From experience. I also know, after beeing stalked by someone that is worshipping "The Dark 'Lord'" or what ever YOU wish to call 'him' - this is his own words... He has felt my "light" and are drawn to me - that is surely something happening on a dimension or level that is NOT 3D. I couldnt solve this on the 3D level. Police interactions didnt stop him - he just NEVER gave up, and I got DESPERATE to be "left alone"...

So what changed this harassment, after suffering for TEN YEARS? Me "stepping up" a notch, going into the JEDI-mode - I used my inner force. "Just so happen" - the same day as I was in a bookstore looking at books in alchemy, I pointed out an image in one of the many books I bought, and pointed at an image to my friend who was with me, and said "Hmm, I wonder what THIS image means?".... I also talked about this man beeing in that bookstore, that the last time I was looking into the stores window; he crept up behind me and got close as he usually does, affecting me very negative with his dark vibes...

My friend and I said goodbye for the evening, and I went to a spiritual store, where they sell crystals and give healing, astrology readings and so on. I talked to the lady in the store, told her my story, and I said "Others around me dont understand what hell this is - beeing targeted by those that 'are drawn' to me.... and they tend to stand either very passive and not knowing what to say, OR then they BLAME THE VICTIM; which is ALSO a abusive behaviour... that willl belittle the victim and others put themselves in a position of superiority - they allow themselves to blame someone that asks for help - now that is a narcissistic approach; you just cant stand others beeing vulnerable, and perhaps not having a solution makes others feel powerless, hence a need to "get rid of the one complaining".

So I had to fix this drama MYSELF!!! The police and the judges could hold him for awhile, but, not until he had literally HURT me or threatened out right to do so - I was forced to "live with it". I had isolated myself, didnt dare go out, and was on constant alert mode.

That women helped me by claiming MY RIGHT TO MY OWN EMOTIONS!!!

She said "Others cannot understand cuz they do not have that magnetic or strong aura that you have, and they have never experienced that others that are less evolved and a slave under their low chakra needs (attraction, sexual or simply energy vampires feeding of others light) so, DONT MIND THEM, they cant help you - you need to LEARN that this is your stigma..." I dont know if it is this dimensions "recepy" to mix low vibrational with high vibrational, or if someone of evil-low vibration already HAS slipped into this dimension, causing the "troubles" we have: war, lies, desception etc

She continued: "Though already by accepting this, instead of blaming YOUR SELF, for what others do - will make you feel better, cuz now you loose power and belief in yourself thinking you are your own worst enemy - just cuz you are who you are; different... "

I bought stones (crystals) that are said to protect and strengthen - I bought 3. I held them in my left hand. I crossed the street and went into another store, they sell spiritual books. This time I looked at their advertising board - and to my surprise I saw it was an "Alchemical meeting" - regardin THE MOON, the same evening, 45 min later!!

I took a taxi and went to that place. And guess WHO stepped in the door, when it was starting: the stalker that "worships the dark" - and, the ONLY chair that was available was the one BESIDE ME, to my left.

I got panicattack, I felt like throwing up, and I was so afraid, my instict was to run away. I thought about what the police said: "Call us IMMEDIATELY if he stalks you again, and we will take him to custody."

This time, I descided to FACE MY FEAR. I have learned through cognitive behavioural therapy (KBT) to overcome fears, we need to face them.

So I stayed. And, the lecture was amazing - they talked about the moon, and its shadowsides... It was as if I was in a movie.. they literally talked about ME, and he represented my shadow.

During the lecture, they showed slides of images - the image I had seen in that alchemical book came up, and others I had stumbled upon during my research on the internet recently; SYNCRO-MYSTICY.

I have my moon in scorpio, and ascendant in scorpio, and sun in cancer - all of this was linked to the lecture... The occult is the hidden, and it was vital to know about how the moon affects our subconsious, and how we might be caught in battles that was projections, is what you talk about here.

The man looked over his shoulder towards me, and he was affecting me with his energyfield.. I thought about the stones I held, and that I could TRANSFORM MYSELF; THUS transform the "hologram" of events that was "my life" - so I started to send him back the energies HE SENT ME - I built up this inner strength, shield... literally surrounded myself with LIGHT, and I held the stones, and thougth that I was STRONGER them him - he couldnt scare me or steal from me anymore! I felt POWER RISE in my body - perhaps my kundalini... And the mans foot started to shake, later his whole leg was nervously "jumping up and down" on the chair, (sorry english is my second language) but he "danced" on his toe, get what I mean? Then his whole body started shivering... then I stopped and said to myself "no more war" -

I focused on the lecture, and slipped into another mode - I FORGAVE him.... I "let go" of the drama, and actually accepted the lesson this had been for me... perhaps he just played a role that was necessary in order for me to grow in awareness about things?

I stayed the whole lecture, and as they went over to the social chit-chat, I slipped out the door with my books and took a cab home - and for the FIRST TIME IN YEARS, I felt FREE... I had faced my fear, and WON, I was sooo happy... no physical battle involved, so noone else in the room didnt know what was going on - they just saw him stare, then his nervous shaking, but noone said a word.

After this I havent seen him around, in weeks. I stumbled into him on the street the other day, and THIS time, I felt directly that I was NOT afraid.... I felt free, strong, and couldnt help but to remember the "field of light" like an electromagnetic field around me, that came up several times in my childhood, when I prayed, when I was afraid, who made me feel safe.

Also I have been in situations when I should have been dead, several times all over... accidents, attacks etc - but Ive been surviving miraculously. So I think there is a meaning with everything now.

IF I was supposed to have died, if it was in my plan - I would have died. I also think that I though these times of trouble, was guided - no, I know so. Ive had this "guiding spirit" or perhaps my higher self, giving me clues in various situations, so I was LEAD away from danger.

One time was when I drove through Europe, for weeks, with my ex. We passed many villages and towns. I was driving this time, when we entered a town, and suddenly I just shouted "like a military ORDER" to my ex: LOOCK YOUR DOOR, NOW!!!! He stared at me wondering what the heck had gotten into me?!?! I said again, with darker voice "LOOCK YOUR DOOR, NOW, DO AS I SAY!!!!" - he obeyed. I locked my door (this was a 2 door car, Ford Ka). As I turned around the corner in that village, we got to a stoplight -

out in the street it suddenly appeared a CRAZY VIOLENT man, looking like a freaking demon, totally insane, he attacked MY DOOR, tryed to get in, screaming, wild eyes.. he COULDNT get the door up... then he run in front of the car over to the other side - tried to get the door open, banged on the window, cursing.... The light turned to green and I drove away, the man disappeared in the crowd we left behind us... My ex was very upset and breathed fast in shock, and turned to my "OH MY GOD WHAT LUCK WE LOCKED THE DOORS!!!" I just looked at him, and the event hit him - and he said "But how did you know....?!?!?" I couldnt answer, I DIDNT, I was as if someone else warned me, and I just acted.

This is just one of MANY events, with witnesess involved. I have been told Im a witch, an angel, supernatural, etc etc - many are those that has been scared, cuz they arent used to it.

So - by sharing this, I just wanted to say, that I am aware of this dimension and its drama, this to me IS a war - the dark has MANY times tried to "get me"; break me down and by that stop me... it hasnt succeded... not even when I got so desperate I wanted to end it myself - then those around me have been "alerted" and followed me and stopped me... I now need to accept that there is something bigger then me, that is, larger then me, beyond this ego-earthly role, this woman Jessica... I go into some other mode, and it has been hard to adjust to beeing involved in these "extra weird" happenings - which few have in their lives.

I found out the other day, more about Masternumbers - and their lifetask... It helped me, I can now relate to it better... But, no matter what, I KNOW now, this shift, this drama we go through, even if its tough, we are afraid, insecure and its demanding - THERE IS A MEANING. I know death cant kill me, so even if we would be damaged or hurt - in a weird way, that has somekind of meaning too.

I dont know what else to do then to study, learn and get to understand the "other side" - in order to RELATE too it, and also make sure the protective training; excersice, physical and mentally, to be stronger...

But remember this - the immunesystem that are there to protect the organism against damaging virus and bacterias - NEED to be challenged, if not, the immunesystem are weakned and our cells attack themselves...

Isnt that weird? Do we NEED an enemy or threat to grow strong and not attack ourselves INWARDS?

Philosophical and spiritual question.

Sorry for the long post. But perhaps this could trigger a discussion we need, or someone reading this might be helped or get a needed catalystic-insight, and transform THEIR fear into a mode of "courage", trust in themselves, and in something "larger then life"...

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To those of you who found value in my words...thank you.

...I wish to provide the very apparent other side of my concepts related to "infiltration". I know full-well, the danger of many...and I fully agree with the complexity of 3rd dimensional deception. However, it seems to me that discernment may be used liberally, here. My experience is that discernment is commonly available to those who have "shaken the clay from their feet", so to speak.

As it relates to a community...I would expect its boundaries to be distinct, and that its members would have a comfortable familiarity. Evil individuals, and yes, I have first-hand awareness of their existence, would find it tremendously difficult to stay undetected. 3rd dimensional wallowing will be exactly what this community stands to transcend. The very earthy collection of 3rd dimensional traits held by some, shouldn't last long, and ultimately, those who cannot move beyond this type of thinking, may need to be addressed.

With regard to those beyond the boundaries of the community...of course, common sense prevails. Knowledge of warfare is common, and deception, evasion, and pursuit have been traditionally integral to martial effort. Awareness of these things will provide the best defense, and I know there are many who are AWARE of the depravities which will be faced.

I don't envision an endless war between good and evil...rather; I see the entirely natural transformation of deception-based thinking, to truth. Truth should be very infectious, and although it takes a little time for a pandemic to develop...truth is the agent, here...and I suspect that complete infection will be constrained to a period of time.

Love