Freemasonry.

[carcharodon]

Sure they're good... why else would they be so secretive?

[Ashatav]

Anyone who says that Albert Pike and alyester crowley are not satanists simply don't know/read the work made by them.

look at the video in google videos named The Illuminati from whitin by bill schnoebelen. And This Great Lecture to from the profesor Veith, a great researcher, he is an university profesor who research this kind of topics (and many others) and give Great Classes about it.

Cheers!

[arcora]

Just a thought that came to me recently on this very subject.

As above, so below, right? Wouldn't the corollary to that be as below, so above?

So, if I wanted to harness some energy for my [evil] or [good] works, wouldn't it be great to have a worldwide army of guys doing little rituals for me?

As for Crowley - the satanic is evident in his "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law".

[Frank Samuel]

Boy in all these threads today we have thrown every thing but the kitchen sink at each other. All groups have agendas, they want to get their point across so we sent the lobbyist to watch out for the intrest of the group, organization,etc. What makes this bad is that often the little guy is left out of the picture. I too used belong to a few of these groups for a while.
Is funny how a Christian would think himself to be outside of the lobbist
groups that turn everything upside down, right side up. This politicians would do and say anything for money. The group I used to belong to controls the international media reports UPI, a few newspapers, universities, etc. etc. and yes they have lobbyist like everybody else. Many politicians are members, or are affiliated with the group. No I don't think all of this groups are luciferians, Illuminatis, satanist or what have you, they are groups looking out for the companies that they have a vested intrest on. Unfortunately most would side with the republican agenda. Look out for the investors first then maybe will do something for the little guy. Just my 2 cents. Ooops here's comes the kitchen sink again!!!

Originally Posted by clarkkent

unfortunately not everyone can pick up on people like yourself so this forum will be come convoluted with ridiculous views and disinfo.

As opposed to your views, which of course as you say, are the 'correct' views

all i can say is at least i know your agenda and ill steer clear of your posts and ill ask you not to post in my threads i make.

You have no idea of my agenda, nor do you dictate where anyone may post.
Please try to get a grip on reality and be a little less anti social

Hi there!
Personally i study a lot and deep before make judgments to sacred cultures,
i never ends, many interesting jewels in the middle of the path
We learn to not make judgments, because always something new appears, and we change the point of view, and on and on...
And like a yin-yang, the black have a point white , and the white a point black, and make something in balance and perfect.
Well... the knowledge has not been hidden, just not shared openly
Yes, and with good reason...
Should the knowledge be shared freely with everyone? ...mmmmm
All the ancients cultures , like in Egypt , India, Maya, Celtic, etc has been hidden knowledge, or just take care of the knowledge, masonic too
Can you guarantee that everyone who discovers this knowledge have enough honor and wisdom to use the ability properly?....mmmm
You need show the true will of you soul , your true roots , intentions, perseverance, dedication, you need prove you are right and ready, you need be humble, and know that you need be always a student.
Knowledge in the wrong hands becomes a dangerous weapon.
Knowledge in the right hands , but with a ego growing, becomes a potencial confusion around groups with good intentions
The "trouble" is not the groups, is the ego of someone, that ruin years of sacred value.
Free wil to choose, but the best is TRUST in our intuition

Namaste, and Shine on !

[dataeast]

Hi my first post here, greets...

Occult (which is not a dirty word) groups were as such because the prevailing times made secrecy a necessity. The Golden Dawn, and societies like it were structured in a way that in order to "graduate" the initiate had to be able to demonstrate an understanding of previous "chapters," these teachings may have served diametrically opposed ends depending on the initiates position either in the inner or outer order, but necessary in the sense of a linear process.

Aleister Crowley wasn't a satanist per se, only according to Christians since he challenged the religion's principles (purposefully or not). We are talking about Victorian England after all which was a very conservative period--this is the context. He is no different to a rock star today that rebels against the "system." The Christian ideals cast him in that particular light so it is understandable that societies such as the Golden Dawn did not disclose the inner workings of the order--there is nothing sinister about that. It must be remembered that Satanists are Christians too in that they belong to the same idea of God or religion.

From my understanding of the Golden Dawn, who borrowed and modified rituals from various other "secret societies" such as the Freemasons, the movement was towards the bringing about the New Age, that is, a change in human consciousness which encompassed the idea of the Godhead, or illuminated man/woman, hence the eye on the pyramid which can be read symbolically in one interpretation as meaning the synthesis of dual natures (thesis, antithesis, synthesis). So, symbolically reconciling dualism into one unified vision (the eye) which is the higher state of awareness that see's all.

[taadev]

That one should take no single person's allegations as fact is very true.


Although it was noticed you did not deny anything alleged. Instead claimed Pike's statements 'were taken out of context', but as with most disinformation teams, provided few in any specifics with which to take issue. These online teams instead generalize, use ad hominem attacks, provide ,,, symbols , other forms of meta-communications and short blurbs sending out often ambiguous statements or negative 'vibrations' the poster was wrong. Always short as they've many a truth to assail, are badly outnumbered, and therefore cannot spend much time on any single truth.

This reader has learned almost everytime, the normally fallacious, 'ad hominem' fallacy is used, the party opposed thereto is usually correct, otherwise the substance would have been assailed instead of the author. This sort of disinformation tactic usually works in "me too" teams where followup poster(s) appear to provide 'validations', that are equally short.

Originally Posted by ranma187

I have yet to decide if freemasonry is evil or not? My theory is that generally freemasonry is good. They are the light bearers to shed light on the darkness. It is well known and documented that freemasonry played a part in the writing of the constitution: a document that promotes liberty. A handfull of the founding Fathers were freemasons. 10 Presidents of the USA Including JFK were freemasons.

Freemasons are ever Rampant in the Conspiracy communities spouting "truth" Movements. They are bringing out the very Ideas that people like you and me hold dear. Things like "man is both mortal AND divine" Our consiousness continues long after death in other inCarnations.

<snip> Why then Has freemasonry gotten A Bad name? Some of us Have heard that Rothschild and other private Bankers Funded the Illuminati.
And then They Blamed a man name Albert Pike for the root of the Lies in the Zeitgeist movie. The video Went on to post quotes By albert Pike Making him Look like a "Luciferian" and a Secret War Mongerer. And guess what? They video supported no evidence for it's claims. So i decided, As any good researcher does, To find the quotes in their Original Context and to find out if the quotes actually Existed. Well I found a book Online Where some of the quotes came from. And I found A lot of the quotes stated in the video were taken out of context. The book is found here: http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/apikefr.html

If you actually take the time to Read some of the book, It is nothing Like the Albert Pike Portrayed all over the Internet.

This is what Any good researcher does: If you find a quote or a claim. Go and find out for yourself what is what By going to the Original source.

[taadev]

Similar to any large organization some are good and some are bad; it's disheartening when one hears those words, "Every corporation needs one of 'those' types" in this dog eat dog world of ours.

There are far more good Freemasons than those able to do ill, but similar to the masses they're either unable or unwilling to sit down and find out the truths. Even if many did would they be able to see the controlling power structures though the myriad layers of the power structure that terminate well away from the shores of America? Some would and some would not; we're all so different and it, perhaps, takes too much time to completely solve this riddle.

To the Freemasons, that have bought into Pike's Atheism arguments, this is to you. Perhaps you cannot accept this absolute truth, but you've been terribly misled in this area, and as much as the masses have been in the areas to which you are privy.

It is my greatest hope that you too can literally be 'filled with light' to have any lingering doubts removed as we've many 'intellectuals' too that have been fooled via so-called 'rock solid proofs' of various kinds.

It's never too late to come back to the light of love.

[Marian-Librarian]

Thank you David,

For coming forward and giving us a bit of truth about Masons.
My Grandfather was a 33 degree Mason. I can guarantee you he was not a Satanist. My Grandmother was an Eastern Star....she was not one either.
He was a very spiritual man,and a very generous one too. So was my grandmother. All of her side of the family were Eastern Stars.

I know several 33 degree Masons personally, and all are good people. Most of them will go out of their way to help you....

I have my Uncle"s Masonic book, and I can personally state that there is ABSOLUTELY nothing in there about Satan, and it is a book of prayers and "rituals". Nothing in it would give me a second thought...nothing.

Over the years I have read everything I can on them, to learn the truth from the "outside" since I am not a member. I have read alot on Anton LeVay, etc..and other books too, and they are not really Masons...

I do my research too...as I am a librarian.
Thanks, David for the book tip, I will add it to my library.
Thanks to all who posted in this thread.

Peace to all.

[David]

Hi Marian, thank you for coming forward with what you know as well. I was rather shocked when I saw the thread declaring Mason's as devil worshipers and I do tend to get short with my answers when false info is spread.

The lodge I am with was fortunate to have a large amount of money donated years ago and every year we use the interest earned for multiple charities and paying tuition for poor college students. Not to mention the countless hours we put into our communities. We have official lodge meetings twice a month but I and other officers are there 3 to 4 nights a week. They are all family and just as you said, will go our of our way to help people in need. There will always be some conflict between members in every lodge but there is a fine line that is rarely crossed and at the end of the day, we would give the shirts off our backs for one another.

My wife, mother and sister are also in the Eastern Star. They all wondered for years what happened in the lodge behind closed doors but there are those rare occasions where the public is allowed in the lodge during awards ceremony but is strictly non business. If anyone ever gets a chance to one of these ceremonies, please check it out, I think it will help demystify a lot about the Masons.

I glad am to have helped with the book. I actually found mine at an estate auction and nobody knew what they were. I was very fortunate to have saved them from the trash pile since no one else placed a bid on them. I'm not a librarian but I know how you might have felt to see something like this tossed in the trash.

[orthodoxymoron]

So...maybe all of the people and groups we love to hate...are really the nicest people after all. Perhaps the Bushes and the Neocons are just misunderstood and under-researched. Well then...who has been screwing this world up for thousands of years? Human history is very violent and highly disgusting. Who are the banksters, by the way? Are the corrupt international bankers predominantly a particular group of people? I'm referring to the ones who instigate wars...and finance both sides...at high rates of interest. Who or what was really at the core of the Third Reich? Is National Socialism alive and well in our world today? It seems that there is good and evil in all people and in all organizations. Is there a being...or group of beings who qualify for the title of 'Satan'? Take a look at the Old Testament God. Is this Satan in disguise? My point is that evil lurks...and works all sides...not just the obvious ones.

[777 The Great Work]

I absolutely love the craft, forget the people. The light they conceal is beyond words shrouded in symbols allegory and myth.Such colorful words and elaborate stories were created to express something which we do not have the words to express directly. They are like the finger pointing at the moon rather than the moon itself.

Lucifer is only that image of God Most High that is imprisoned in matter in order to perfect it.

[taadev]

Hello there!

One thing I've learned over the years is the folly of generalizing and believing there are few absolute truths. Please understand those Masons to which you refer that truly represent the honor, spirit and methodologies of Christ are not, by definition, those of whom I speak.

There are many Masons, both Blue and Free that fit this description, in fact numerically speaking I've little doubt they greatly out number those that concoct our enemies to trigger wars as a method of bleeding nations. (They're just not in positions of national power.)

Albert Pike made no positive mention of Satan which implies the connection that does appear to exist must be above the 33rd degree level, or perhaps laterally at certain lodges that cater to pedophiles; perhaps at the “Bankster” level. Whoever it is, does seem to have great wealth based on their being shuttled around in personal jets. (Was Hitler a brainwash victim? The early art attributed to him, and his later actions, did suggest a warped mind of some sort. Is this not a symptom of the trauma type of brainwashing? However, his attempt to ransom the Jewish families for $1,000 per family to the Zionists suggests he was not hell bent on their being completely exterminated, just eliminated from Germany; perhaps a result of the worldwide boycotts against German products. It was shocking to learn the the Zionists of those days refused; at appeared to suggest the greater plan was indeed to leverage the horror of their deaths for another cause.

One theory I have is that the results of sexually traumatizing children, ["disassociation" and complete obedience to the point of being programmable 'suicide bombers of sorts], could have been brought by those that practiced 'Phallic worship'." Did the book(s) to which you referred mention Lucifer? (Someone along the line made a connection of Satan to Lucifer, I'm not sure exists, except perhaps in certain behaviors. These two groups likely cater to two different crowds, but I do believe, at a higher level, they are both under the same umbrella of control. It's also my sense that with Satanism there are different sects for different purposes; some wearing Crosses and others Stars of David, but neither true Christians or Jews.

Some of the biggest 'anti-Zionists' I've known were Jewish. See 'True Torah Jews' for one such group.)

Even the word Lucifer seems to of Latin origin which indicates a Roman origin if not creation. (I've little knowledge in this area, but much knowledge in the very non Christian methods of the Roman Catholic church; not the masses of the church, but the very high leaders using the people to do their dirty work. (ie. Against the Protestants, Cathars etc.)

I have read how Pike seemed to equate Atheism with Luciferism. This seemed like the perfect vehicle for slowly 'educating' a person in the errors in the Bibles with the ultimate goal of turning them away from the Words and ethics of Christ; to at least not fear retribution for their acts on this planet.

A lot like the metaphor of how to boil a frog, slowly, one 'degree' at a Time.

Although I too know several very honorable Masons, but no where near the 33rd degree, they too speak of knowing higher level Masons and others that do much good in the community. Personally the most evil person I've met volunteers at the local hospital and as a result is well thought of by those that do not know how he otherwise operates. It confused the heck out of me for decades until he was caught in his unethical behavior. His 'brothers' then held up his volunteer work as a sort of badge of honor to those that were well aware of his misdeed. The 'masses', who just knew of him in the hospital context, were told 'The entire story was not true and 'politics' as usual; as their only frame of reference was his volunteer work they chose to believe that which was complete baloney. The professionals that knew what he did was true had a tendency of following the suggestion of his 'Brother' Mason in going easy due directly to his work for the hospital.

This entire event helped me to understand why bad people do what appear to be selfless acts, when in fact they were not selfless at all. In fact a sort of social Teflon that is required of those that wish to lead a life of unethical behavior because as any police officer or crook can tell you it's only a matter of time before you get caught.

The Christ Metaphor is "what's happening"

Originally Posted by Marian-Librarian

Thank you David,

For coming forward and giving us a bit of truth about Masons.
My Grandfather was a 33 degree Mason. I can guarantee you he was not a Satanist. My Grandmother was an Eastern Star....she was not one either.

He was a very spiritual man, and a very generous one too. So was my grandmother. All of her side of the family were Eastern Stars.

I know several 33 degree Masons personally, and all are good people. Most of them will go out of their way to help you....

I have my Uncle"s Masonic book, and I can personally state that there is ABSOLUTELY nothing in there about Satan, and it is a book of prayers and "rituals". Nothing in it would give me a second thought...nothing.

Over the years I have read everything I can on them, to learn the truth from the "outside" since I am not a member. I have read alot on Anton LeVay, etc..and other books too, and they are not really Masons...

I do my research too...as I am a librarian.
Thanks, David for the book tip, I will add it to my library.
Thanks to all who posted in this thread.

Peace to all.