Why is Kinsuemei2 banned?

[Carol]

Well after Bill clarified the situation I spent the rest of the day gardening, transplanting blueberry starters, cleaning out the strawberry beds, repotting and just having a very satisfying day outside. It seems sometimes it is too easy to get caught up in forum land and let is slip between getting other things that need doing done.

I liked Kinsuemei2 and felt sorry for him. I had not read all of his posts but recalled our earlier PMs and had been wondering how he was doing. Subsequently, I decided to check his statistics to see what he had been posting when the ban occurred and after checking what he had been writing saw no visible reason for the ban and asked why. I only saw Anchor and Gareth logged on as well as Bill. No mods. So it didn't make sense what happened and being the curious sort pressed for answers.

This was an unusual situation. Usually when a member is banned it is pretty obvious they had been acting out which is visible to other members reading the forum. This other drama was hidden. When the word hoax came out I was concerned because of what he was posting about ingesting various flaxseed oils. So I pushed harder because it was a possible health issue for a variety of members that I thought we all should know about. I had no clue as to the nature of the hoax and very much appreciated Bill making the time to clarify what was going on. The multiple aliases was the give away and then I understood immediately what was happening at one level. I also appreciate Bill going the extra mile to further clarify some of the other details.

Then I thought... were we made fools of by Kinsuemei2? Was his entire posting history a sham? If he lied about who he is ~ how can any of his posts be deemed credible? This then leaves multiple other questions which are still unanswered and only Kinsuemei2 can answer them. And even if he were back, with an explanation, are we to trust anything he has to share again?

Having multiple personalities and avatars on a forum is just one way of totally discrediting oneself. It truly saddens me that this is how Kinsuemei2 chose to spend his time at Avalon. From all I know about karma, one cannot escape it. Karma will follow one from life to life until it is dissolved. Consciously incurring karma just makes how it more difficult, more challenging to dissipate when the time comes for it to unfold. I wish Kinsuemei2 the best and hope he comes to realize what he lost by indulging in this charade.

[Ammit]

Originally Posted by Anchor

A dangerous assumption - which is unfortunately incorrect.

Many people share the same IP address, I am doing so right now because of how I am accessing the site today I am behind a proxy. My IP address could well be being used by another users right now.

A..

Anchor, does this mean someone could send information and such and it could be recorded as you while not actually you....?

[DoctorWho]

He's logged on, but is grayed out and his icon says Banned. Maybe something went down in PMs. I had nothing against the guy.
Bill "the Doctor"

[Carol]

Check his profile page. http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/member.php?u=9204

Kinsuemei2
Banned

Being banned he can look but not post. Also his avatar picture disappeared when I was reading some of his threads so something just happened within the past 30 minutes.

[mntruthseeker]

OMG I see what you mean Carol


I feel really bad because I think he is a very decent man

What a pity

[Céline]

i have called Gaialove and asked him to look into it..

We both enjoy his posts as well...He said that he knows of no reason why he would be banned

Might be a mistake..

[TRANCOSO]

Originally Posted by Carol

I've been reading his posts and see nothing that would justify this action. He has a right to his opinion and sharing his story is what folks do here.

How do you know he's banned?

[Myra]

Originally Posted by Carol

I've been reading his posts and see nothing that would justify this action. He has a right to his opinion and sharing his story is what folks do here.

Well who banned him and why? Carol, if I were you I would find this out. There is NO reason he should be banned. Bring Kinsuemei2 back!!!

*Nevermind asking, I read the rest of the other posts, I guess you spoke to Bill*

Sounds bizarre.

[TRANCOSO]

[mod deletion-Private messages are not to be posted on a public forum]

That is exactly what I've also learned, doing Wado Kai karate for a couple of years. He knows what he's talking about. I find it rather odd though, that someone with his alledged skills, is blowing his own trumpet. That's actually very 'not done'.

[Carol]

I still find it ironic that francie jones was banned for posting Bill's email to her but Bill posts others emails here.

Now here is my personal rant. We all learned way back when that anything electronically written can be seen by those who have the means to do so. Subsequently I learned not to electronically post info that couldn't be shared with the world at large. This was a lesson learned years ago.

That being said, my view is that electronic emails belong to the receiver of the email not the sender, unless identified in the text of the email which it is with financial and legal transactions. Personal "unsolicited" emails are fair game in my book and in some instances can be used in court against the sender. In fact, emails sent by employees in a business belong to the business where the owner(s) of the business can have access at any time to their employee's emails. Those emails do NOT belong to the sender. So how does it stand that francie jones gets banned given what has happened in this thread alone? If Bill can post a member's IP why can't francie post what he wrote to her regarding Cliff High?

[Kerry Cassidy]

Originally Posted by Carol

I've been reading his posts and see nothing that would justify this action. He has a right to his opinion and sharing his story is what folks do here.

MODERATORS PLEASE UN BAN KINSUEMEI2 -- this member has been banned for no good reason. I object and I request that he be reinstated.

Kerry Cassidy
Co-Founder
Project Camelot and Project Avalon

[Bill Ryan]

Originally Posted by Kerry Cassidy

MODERATORS PLEASE UN BAN KINSUEMEI2 -- this member has been banned for no good reason. I object and I request that he be reinstated.

Kerry Cassidy
Co-Founder
Project Camelot and Project Avalon

Dear All,

in the next few hours the mods will receive more written messages from 'Heather' in the form of a compilation of Avalon PMs and Facebook messages.

Let's see if those were dictated, too.

When the mods have all the available information, they will make the call about whether Kinsuemei2 was a hoaxer.

This is what's at stake - because he posted this information on his thread. It's not just dragging the Avalon Forum into Camelot's business. It IS Avalon's business.

If the mods decide he was a hoaxer, then he should be banned - in my strong opinion.

If he was not a hoaxer, then he should be reinstated.

I suggest that at this stage the evidence (not including the new written material we've not seen) is so overwhelming that not all these things can be true...

1) Heather was real
2) Heather was an MD
3) Heather was a black projects whistleblower

... that the onus is on Kinsuemei to show that the above items ARE true. He has the clear opportunity to do this. I'm waiting.

If she really was an MD, for instance, her name will be on public record.

If she really was killed in a traffic accident, there will be a police report in Berlin. (I can get that, if I know what name and date to request.)

So the ball is in the mods' court on this one. I suggest that what I've tabled above is reasonable.

This interesting drama is the result of both Kerry and myself each caring so much about Camelot's work. Paradoxically, the dissonance here is a product of Camelot's strength.

In Kerry's case, she doesn't want to see someone she regards as a potential whistleblower (assumed as such unless proven otherwise) being hurt and damaged. That is an honorable intention.

In my case, I consider this IS proven (but Kerry doesn't agree with my data evaluation) - and I don't want to see Camelot's reputation suffer by one of us believing and posting false information which (if so) can only damage the platform we provide for the REAL whistleblowers out there. That's honorable as well.

It's this latter point which is really what this is all about. We're talking about how Camelot does due diligence on the information we receive. And that's pretty important.

When all the information about 'Heather' is available, it'll be posted for everyone to see.

My best wishes to all, Bill

[Karen]

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan

Dear All,

in the next few hours the mods will receive more written messages from 'Heather' in the form of a compilation of Avalon PMs and Facebook messages.

Let's see if those were dictated, too.

When the mods have all the available information, they will make the call about whether Kinsuemei2 was a hoaxer.

This is what's at stake - because he posted this information on his thread. It's not just dragging the Avalon Forum into Camelot's business. It IS Avalon's business.

If the mods decide he was a hoaxer, then he should be banned - in my strong opinion.

If he was not a hoaxer, then he should be reinstated.

I suggest that at this stage the evidence (not including the new written material we've not seen) is so overwhelming that not all these things can be true...

1) Heather was real
2) Heather was an MD
3) Heather was a black projects whistleblower

... that the onus is on Kinsuemei to show that the above items ARE true. He has the clear opportunity to do this. I'm waiting.

If she really was an MD, for instance, her name will be on public record.

If she really was killed in a traffic accident, there will be a police report in Berlin. (I can get that, if I know what name and date to request.)

So the ball is in the mods' court on this one. I suggest that what I've tabled above is reasonable.

This interesting drama is the result of both Kerry and myself each caring so much about Camelot's work. Paradoxically, the dissonance here is a product of Camelot's strength.

In Kerry's case, she doesn't want to see someone she regards as a potential whistleblower (assumed as such unless proven otherwise) being hurt and damaged. That is an honorable intention.

In my case, I consider this IS proven (but Kerry doesn't agree with my data evaluation) - and I don't want to see Camelot's reputation suffer by one of us believing and posting false information which (if so) can only damage the platform we provide for the REAL whistleblowers out there. That's honorable as well.

It's this latter point which is really what this is all about. We're talking about how Camelot does due diligence on the information we receive. And that's pretty important.

When all the information about 'Heather' is available, it'll be posted for everyone to see.

My best wishes to all, Bill

The moderators have declined to become involved at this level. I posted, with permission, the letters I received from Ben, so that his side could be heard by the forum members. Kinsuemei2 has asked for his membership to be removed as he no longer wants to be involved in this. Bill Ryan has issued an apology to Ben, and given a little more information at http://projectcamelot.org

http://projectcamelot.org/

A personal note about the Heather Anderson affair:

The document that Kerry made available for public scrutiny is a poor one, written by someone with an educational level inconsistent with that required of an insider scientist of any description.

On the Project Avalon Forum, Heather refers to herself as "Dr Anderson", and another member (Marco) who claims he knew her, refers to her as an MD (i.e. a medical doctor). I very, very much doubt that this is true.

Identical repeated typos - e.g. SOLIDER for 'soldier' - occur in Ben Murphy's writing. Ben Murphy is the Project Avalon member, named in the published PDF, who claims that Heather was a real person whom he knew, and who, frightened and on the run, stayed with him and his wife for a while.

E-mails from both Ben and Heather have identical IP addresses. However, Ben explains this by saying that all Heather's messages were dictated by her to him. He also states that this is the reason the same dyslexic mistakes (SOLIDER, etc) occur in both his writing and hers.

When all the above became clear, I accused Ben of hoaxing the material, and banned him from the Project Avalon forum. I apologize to him here as there was not enough evidence - and more on the subject of evidence follows below - to justify a definite ban as a hoaxer.

I was angry that Camelot was being played. Indeed, Heather does seem to have been a real person. Camelot may indeed be being played, but not by Ben. A number of people are working quite hard on getting to the bottom of this little tangle on the grounds that it's just possible that what emerges might be important and valuable. For instance, we've recently heard that Heather is not dead after all, but has recently sent a message stating that she is in Strasbourg.

In the meantime, my strong personal opinion is that this is a waste of Camelot's time, and that we should focus on real whistleblowers (and real people) with provenance who are able to produce compelling evidence to support their claims. It's unfortunate that any of this reached the public. At best, it's a distraction. At worst, this is a sting operation against Project Camelot with the intention of discrediting our research.

In my view, those following our work expect us to apply intelligent due diligence to cross-check information that comes our way before publication. Also in my view, we have a duty of responsibility as gatekeepers, respected and followed by tens of thousands of people worldwide, to check the provenance of the information we record and report as carefully as possible while working in an arena which is awash with accidental and deliberate disinformation. It's my personal commitment to do good, solid research while remaining open to genuinely new and startling information - because the universe, as Sir Arthur Eddington famously stated, is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.

It's easy to make mistakes, or to be fooled by those with compelling cover stories and resources to back them up. I commend Kerry for her unstinting support for whistleblowers of every kind - and there are many kinds. We don't always get it right, and have both made mistakes. The nature of our work over the last three and a half years would have required one to be superhuman not to have been on a learning curve.

Our learning continues. We're pledged to share our journey with our readers and viewers. Kerry and I are united in our passion for the truth, and are both committed to giving our best to help the world become a better place through the free flow of information that has been withheld from the public by those who wish to control us for reasons of their own.

--Bill

[SteveX]

I think Bill put that clearly and politely. Even though the "evidence" was stacked heavily, in my opinion, on Bills side he none the less was Gentlemanly enough to publicly apologize.

After reading Marco last post (deleted) where he stated words to the effect of..."having spoken to her (heather) I can't help but think she's laughing at all of us." I think Bills gesture makes things more than even.

Hopefully both Kerry and Bill can put this behind them and move on. I look forward to move interviews, vids and conference material.

[Harry_CDN]

I believe much can be obtained from the full headers of any e-mail.

[GaiaLove]

Originally Posted by Kerry Cassidy

MODERATORS PLEASE UN BAN KINSUEMEI2 -- this member has been banned for no good reason. I object and I request that he be reinstated.

Kerry Cassidy
Co-Founder
Project Camelot and Project Avalon

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan

Dear All,

in the next few hours the mods will receive more written messages from 'Heather' in the form of a compilation of Avalon PMs and Facebook messages.

Let's see if those were dictated, too.

When the mods have all the available information, they will make the call about whether Kinsuemei2 was a hoaxer.

This is what's at stake - because he posted this information on his thread. It's not just dragging the Avalon Forum into Camelot's business. It IS Avalon's business.

If the mods decide he was a hoaxer, then he should be banned - in my strong opinion.

If he was not a hoaxer, then he should be reinstated.

...

When all the information about 'Heather' is available, it'll be posted for everyone to see.

My best wishes to all, Bill

On behalf of the Avalon moderators I am posting this reply to our beloved founders and membership.
We have removed the ban on kinsuemie2 for the moment. This is not a response to Kerrys request
but a decision made by us as the first move towards uncovering the truth of this matter and setting it right.

We are reviewing the evidence that has been presented to us and will decide on the matter in the very near future.

We act only with the best interest of Avalon and its members.
In the meantime this and any other related threads will remain closed.

Thank you for your understanding

The Project Avalon Moderating Team