Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth...

[ENdJOY]

Milk and Honey said "The WMM discredits Jesus"

you must have missed that part of the website, where James tells us that Jesus is the leader of the Lyricus Teaching Order, and is very involved in this teaching... I posted it in another thread, and will post it again here so that you can see, that what you BELIEVE about the WMM are not necessarily what they are teaching...

Question 17 -- Who was Jesus Christ in relation to the WingMakers?

For those of you who will read these words, and are steeped in Christianity, forgive the manner of my response. I am not a man who communicates delicately when speaking my truth.

Jesus incarnated not for the purpose of begetting a religion. He simply expressed his vision of the spiritual dimensions, making First Source accessible and singular. His fellow humans were so eager for the fulfillment of prophecy that they imposed upon him the mantle of Messiah, which he hesitantly agreed to shoulder.

Jesus presently serves a leadership role in the teaching organization of which I spoke of earlier, which is made up of authentic spiritual leaders of earth. He is very much aware of both the WingMakers and Lyricus. An interesting footnote: While the religious organizations compete for human membership, those teachers who are responsible for the religions' origin operate in collaboration and cooperation beneath the same, bold banner: human evolution. Those teachers who have translated from the physical to the interdimensional realms remain powerful teachers of humanity. They shift their focus from individualistic missions to collaborative missions, and in this spirit of collaboration, become increasingly powerful as change agents for the human condition. Jesus, in particular, operates as a managing director of the teaching organization, and in this role, interfaces with Lyricus on planning and analysis of the Grand Portal.[/SIZE]

There is a common understanding among the teaching core that the confluence of science, art, and religion is inevitable, and it will culminate in the scientific discovery of the human soul, and more specifically, how the human soul is designed. Much like the physical body has a human genome, the spiritual body, or Wholeness Navigator, has a spiritual genome. And this genome is far more important to understand than the human because it is the causal element, while the human genome is the receptor.

There are six components to this effort that are coordinated:

1. Lyricus designs, transposes, and installs galactic Tributary Zones to a planetary system

2. Earth teachers (non-physical) prepare the species for acceptance of the Grand Portal

3. Earth teachers (physical) discover the way to the Grand Portal via the Tributary Zones

4. Earth teachers (physical) disseminate and preserve the knowledge of the Grand Portal

5. Earth teachers (physical and non-physical) unite humanity to the Sovereign Integral Network

6. Source Intelligence and Lyricus facilitate the process throughout the Grand Universe

Jesus' role is of high importance in stage two, and in approximately eighty years, in stage five. He essentially leads this process with the collaborative assistance of the entire teaching organization of ascended (non-physical) teachers.

you just keep making yourself look more and more IGNOREant with every post...again I wonder what your agenda is, by discrediting the WMMs...perhaps you have something better to offer, than saving your self? What you apparently fail to understand is that the WMMs are not associated with any ORG (on Earth)...there is NO LEADER, no doctrine, no rituals, no dogma, and no clergy... they are "tool" created to help humanity wake up and recognize who they ARE... No one can do this for you...the work that needs to be done must be done by you, by searching withIN your self, for your "true idenity" and then learning how to express it through the Human Instrument. You can't just read the materials and say, oh yes, I know what a Sovereign Integral is... you have to experience it for yourself.

Until you have actually done that, you can not KNOW what you are talking about... which obviously you don't. I suggest that you allow other to forumulate their own opinions without blanketing the interview with your own insecurities. If the interview resonates the heart strings, then you have your own "proof" ... if it does not, then move on to something that does...but to bash at James, and to misrepresent what he is sharing is disrespectful...and if you are as "sensitive" as you pretend to be, then you would certainly not Do unto others, what you would not have them do unto you... Please, give it a rest... you never make yourself look good, when you belittle others.

[Ashatav]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

no they are not...you may have them confused in your mind, but the terms used by the WMs are unique to those materials...and so is the information they are sharing...check again...this is a perfect example of why James said, that when you "compare" the WMMs with other works, you will become confused.

"No, there are not"


Great argument mate, "absolute truth"

hahaha


No, I have read the urantia book since I had sixteen years and know the urantia therms and which of them uses the wingmakers's creators.

In fact, I was a totally new ager-urantia-wingmaker Before I investigate in deep about these subjets and understand that they are to make accept us the new world order new religion.


People, in these days of materialism, feel so spiritually orphans that accept anything who comes from Nowhere (like the things above).


Cheers.

[Josefine]

Originally Posted by Ashatav

Let's see the New World Order part of the wingmakers material...


Sarah: "I also read the memo that Dr. Sauthers [a colleague of Dr. Neruda] wrote about a global culture being an outcome of this technology from the WingMakers' sites. But how could these objects be used to build a global culture? It seems a little naive to me."

Dr. Neruda: "All I can tell you is that it's related to the Internet and a new communication technology that the WingMakers referred to as OLIN or the One Language Intelligent Network. If you read the glossary section that I left behind, you'll see it referenced there. The WingMakers seem to feel confident that the OLIN technology will help create the global culture through the Internet. This incidentally is consistent with prophecies that the Labyrinth Group was privy to dating as far back as 1,500 years ago. Of course the enabling technology wasn't called OLIN, but the notion of a global culture and unified governance has been predicted for many centuries."

Sarah: This is what George Bush used to call the New World order isn't it?

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but there have been four other presidents who've acknowledged this concept."

Sarah: "What would make the world's people decide to unify under one governing body, or for that matter, create a global culture--whatever that means? I just can't envision it happening--not in my lifetime."

Dr. Neruda: "According to the WingMakers it will happen through the digital economy and then through the Internet's OLIN technology platform. And through this global network, entertainment and educational content will be globalized. This is the basis of a global culture with unified commerce, content, and communities. Once these pieces of the infrastructure are in place, then the need to govern this infrastructure will loom as the preeminent issue of the day. And the United Nations is the logical ruling body for such an endeavor. As long as the World's people allow the digitization of the economy and embrace the OLIN technology platform, a global government and culture is virtually assured to emerge."

Sarah: "And as you said last night, this is supposed to occur in 2018?"

Dr. Neruda: "According to prophecy, that's when the United Nations will hold initial elections for a unified world government. And it won't be an all powerful, centralized authority, but rather a global public policy decision and enforcement organization for issues that effect the world at large. Issues like pollution, global warming, border disputes, space travel, terrorism, trade, commerce, OLIN technology upgrades, and general technology transfer programs."

Sarah: "So what will happen to National sovereignty in this new role of the United Nations?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'm willing to answer your question in the form of a speculative response, but I'm also aware that you had asked me at the outset of this interview to remind you if you got off course. What would you like --"

Sarah: No, you're absolutely right. Sorry. Let's go back to the artifacts--what was the condition of the site when you first entered--or better still, why don't you just describe your first encounter going inside the site."

Cheers and judge by yourselve.

This is certainly interesting. I had surmised as much, as stated in other posts. The PTP counts on us being too lazy to do the required work to determine what the value of a material holds, and reject the rest. 'All or nothing' is the lazy habitual response.

The Zeitgeist material has been produced for the same purpose, I can sense. And the Blossom Goodchild message as well, which was given ridiculously much space on Avalon. The lightship grew in expected size by the week, and little attention was made of the fact that there were ongoing major sightings over major cities in the world.

Channeling is something they want to do away with, it may come up with inconvenient truths for those who prefer an 'Information Clearinghouse'.
By the same token, channeling may also be the lazy one's snoozing pillow, so it is fair enough to take stock of how we use it.

There is a chance that these forces (NWO Religion Creators) are trying to take advantage of a Forum like Avalon. I will be very disappointed if this is in cooperation with Bill and Kerry. It certainly does not have to be. But whoever is able to steer the traffic, has great powers.

In the meantime I will say that the interview with James, the Zeitgeist videos and Blossom G. nevertheless have brought about much good: We need to flex our muscles of discernment, and what better way to do that than to face some real challenges and do a good job of meeting them.

What 'they' are counting on is the customary genuflections, a habit that the traditional religions have bred into our mindset.

[Josefine]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Milk and Honey said "The WMM discredits Jesus"

you must have missed that part of the website, where James tells us that Jesus is the leader of the Lyricus Teaching Order, and is very involved in this teaching... I posted it in another thread, and will post it again here so that you can see, that what you BELIEVE about the WMM are not necessarily what they are teaching...

you just keep making yourself look more and more IGNOREant with every post...again I wonder what your agenda is, by discrediting the WMMs...perhaps you have something better to offer, than saving your self? What you apparently fail to understand is that the WMMs are not associated with any ORG (on Earth)...there is NO LEADER, no doctrine, no rituals, no dogma, and no clergy... they are "tool" created to help humanity wake up and recognize who they ARE... No one can do this for you...the work that needs to be done must be done by you, by searching withIN your self, for your "true idenity" and then learning how to express it through the Human Instrument. You can't just read the materials and say, oh yes, I know what a Sovereign Integral is... you have to experience it for yourself.

Until you have actually done that, you can not KNOW what you are talking about... which obviously you don't. I suggest that you allow other to forumulate their own opinions without blanketing the interview with your own insecurities. If the interview resonates the heart strings, then you have your own "proof" ... if it does not, then move on to something that does...but to bash at James, and to misrepresent what he is sharing is disrespectful...and if you are as "sensitive" as you pretend to be, then you would certainly not Do unto others, what you would not have them do unto you... Please, give it a rest... you never make yourself look good, when you belittle others.

Having the material resonate with our heartstrings is certainly one way of judging it, but to give a balanced response is certainly to be preferred. It avoids the 'All or Nothing' trap. Good thing that there is always a third road reconciling the dualities?
Is this the time for a 'Born Again Jamesonian Movement'??? If you don't fall on your knees, get lost?

These claims about Jesus Christ really takes the prize! Clever try, if I may say so.

[efields]

OMG You really believe this bullcrap?

A sword to protect you from your sins? hey good reason for us all to be Christ followers SHEESH. Back to the dark ages folks!

[Ashatav]

Originally Posted by efields

OMG You really believe this bullcrap?

A sword to protect you from your sins? hey good reason for us all to be Christ followers SHEESH. Back to the dark ages folks!

HEY! Watch Your eyes!

There's two wormlike things attacking them!

Nooooooooooooo!

[efields]

Im not convinced there even was a Jesus as you believers believe. Yes some figure or an amalgamation of figures were turned into the myth Jesus by the corrupt all seeing all powerful Church with their INSANE power

Remember what the original forefathers Fought For to start The US? Separation of Church and State? Now you have a monkey like Bush who seeks to wed the 2 UGGHHHH. Thank goodness he's almost GONE. When I saw all that voted for HIM, that was a good case to leave this ignorant country of Bible Thumpers. Just like the Moslems just a different BOOK..... LOL Zealots all.

[efields]

Originally Posted by Ashatav

HEY! Watch Your eyes!

There's two wormlike things attacking them!

Nooooooooooooo!

LOL yes Im sent to Hades ouch Endless suffering and torture for all the Jews (The Chosen People... LOL).. Oh Yeah LOL I can just here the thumpers now..... 'He who laughs last' ... ... ... pray for his eternal DAMNED soul heheheh

Oh Brother can you spare a DIme?


Soggy Bottom Boys, my heros

[efields]

I vote to Rename this Thread...


Re: The Bible: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth...


LOL

[Ashatav]

Watch them, really!

The people who don't believe in Jehoshua'ha Mechaich must direct to professional sources not teosophycal (luciferians, see madame Blavatsky's "secret doctrine" and alice a Bailey's Lucifer trust publishing" co then renamed "lucis trust", both the bases of theosophy and new age) amaterur theories who are behind All these "informations".


Of course Jehoshua'ha Mechaich have nothing to do with the religions, don't mix the things up, he says that we have to get out of the religions.


Of course the catholic institution killed 68 millions people in total, but that organizations isn't a christian one, is a Mystery religions with christian names.


Little History of Romanism.

In the fourth century Constantine had a capital problem, he was a mythraic and sol invictus follower faces the reality of a growing christian community.

In rome where a Lot of Mystery religions followers (mytharsm and the sol invictus are mystery religions) so constantine who was a clever politician FUSED BOTH RELIGIONS, in fact, Continued his religion with Christian NAMES, in fact, teh bible, who the christians consider their base book was prohibited until the reform.

That's the reason because the romanism conmemorated the "birthday" of "Jesus" in december 25th, because is the birthday of Mytras.

In the Bible didn't appear his birthday and in fact there are no 3 kings, the are "many wise men" who, as you can see, differ with "3 kings", the host ritual is what the ancient egyptians done believing that they where eating the "sun god" horus in that circular bread.

And so on, and so on, and so on.


In the bible topic Might look at the Work of Jonathan Grey named "who's playing Jesus games?" and compiled the historical cientific information about him and the new testament, really interesting.

I don't knew until reading it that there are So Many historical sources christian and not christian backing up that book.


And in the wingmakers topic hahaha I think it's a scam to get out people away of their believes and introduce them into a New World Order New Religion.

Cheers, investigate the subjet with the material of professionals (at least!) hehehe

[Gnosis5]

What desire or compulsion leads a person into this type of scam?

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

What desire or compulsion leads a person into this type of scam?

Serious question Gnosis5..... what type of scam? The WMM do you mean? Or something else...

[Gnosis5]

Hi, Milk 'n Honey,

Ashatav wrote: And in the wingmakers topic hahaha I think it's a scam to get out people away of their believes and introduce them into a New World Order New Religion.

I asked him (and any others) that question.

Gnosis

[Gnosis5]

Oh, well, I guess I need to cover my tracks a bit

I'm putting out the question from the viewpoint that most if not all religions are scams composed of enough truth and "bad guys" to absorb a being's interest for a long long time.

From my experience and viewpoint no major religion truly supports any true technologies or processes that will get a person out of his, as wingmakers say, HMS. Meditation is tolerated because it can be controlled and because it is a slow boat to China, imho. So is quantum breath, imho. But I support it from the viewpoint that it is better than nothing, AND, IF a person develops it into a lifelong habit then he will most likely carry it over into his next lifetimes and that will put him stars above those who are still soundly asleep.

Sorry I cannot give you anymore than my own opinion, which is a substitute for actually testing something out.

It would be interesting to do a poll of this forum and find out how many members routinely practice meditation or breathing processes or any other spiritual process. I would imagine that there would be a wide discrepancy between those who adhere to a philosophy or religion espoused by a group and those who actually do the spiritual practice endorsed by above group. How many of these religions support gatherings specifically to help members do their spiritual practices?

I have seen religions that form local meditation groups where actual meditation is aided and achieved. I'd put my money in the collection plate for that.

The early christian gatherings were nothing like what one sees go on in major churches today.

In the age of internet, WingMakers could (and should) create a "Room" where adherents can come and get together and be guided through their first steps at establishing a routine "Quantum Breathing" program. I would put my money in the collection plate for something like that. Would someone please pass this onto the webmaster?

Plus, I like the WingMakers intricate artwork, all other things aside.

gnosis

[pilot]

Ok now

[pilot]

Originally Posted by ENDJOY

you just keep making yourself look more and more IGNOREant with every post...again I wonder what your agenda is, by discrediting the WMMs...perhaps you have something better to offer, than saving your self? What you apparently fail to understand is that the WMMs are not associated with any ORG (on Earth)...there is NO LEADER, no doctrine, no rituals, no dogma, and no clergy... they are "tool" created to help humanity wake up and recognize who they ARE... No one can do this for you...the work that needs to be done must be done by you, by searching withIN your self, for your "true idenity" and then learning how to express it through the Human Instrument. You can't just read the materials and say, oh yes, I know what a Sovereign Integral is... you have to experience it for yourself.

Until you have actually done that, you can not KNOW what you are talking about... which obviously you don't. I suggest that you allow other to forumulate their own opinions without blanketing the interview with your own insecurities. If the interview resonates the heart strings, then you have your own "proof" ... if it does not, then move on to something that does...but to bash at James, and to misrepresent what he is sharing is disrespectful...and if you are as "sensitive" as you pretend to be, then you would certainly not Do unto others, what you would not have them do unto you... Please, give it a rest... you never make yourself look good, when you belittle others.

I believe your slip is showing endjoy, you are the one with the agenda, that is obvious. Those on this forum who are not falling all over themselves in praise of WMM bring up valuable points, but you feel it is your duty to answer every one and claim it is but the unification of mankind that inspires this. Please.

If WMM is the grand portal to the divine, it hardly needs you to defend it. Your activities are approaching coercive-and that ain't cool, I would say the same to anyone pushing a spiritual path. If you like it, practice it. Stop trying to sell it or you may just find that your efforts are going to result in the opposite of what you intend. Get it??

[Josefine]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

Hi, Milk 'n Honey,

Ashatav wrote: And in the wingmakers topic hahaha I think it's a scam to get out people away of their believes and introduce them into a New World Order New Religion.

I asked him (and any others) that question.

Gnosis

What DO you know about the NWO? It is global governance by the Octopus (The Illuminati, The zionists, The Jesuits, the Vatican, the Freemasons, the Banksters, the bloodline families): Centralized thinking, centralized policies, centralized economy, culture, religion, Big Pharma health care, GMO food. Policing of thought, of speech, of movement, mind control, rewards for being docile, punishment for being an individual, free spirit. We will have 'Information Clearinghouses' in all areas telling us what we are supposed to think and do. It is a centralized fascist world governance.

Do you want ANY part of it? It is a great chance that the Wingmakers, Zeitgeist, false channelings, false green agenda, are part of this agenda. 'The Manufacture of Consent' will be a state of art. When that does not work, brute force is the alternative.

Pls spare us a poll on TWM, it is not worth it.

[Myra]

Originally Posted by Ashatav

I stoped believing in the wingmakers material when I read in the second interview with Dr. Neruda that the Bush senior's New World Order is what they want to this world.
Read it in the second interview!

The people must know these kind of information about wingmakers.

Cheerszoo!

Yuk.

[Reader]

It sounds very similar to "The Urantia Book"

[Frank Samuel]

Truth in whatever shape or form is just one key to open a door, your journey has taken you thousands of years perhaps even millions, unfortunately many of us cannot remember our past lives wether in the spiritual world on in any other dimension. I do not know how anybody can claim to know the whole truth. We are learning to rely in ourselves to discover what is true for us . Althought we are all connected we are having different experiences even when reading each other's post we connected to our own experiences and things will resonate or not according to the level that we are at. Remember that we are living in an illusion, what we think is real is only temporary, debates about truths are just that, debates. Be open even if it does not resonate, explore different so called truths, you'll be surprise what truth will begin to be uncover within you. Happy journeys.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Milk and Honey said "The WMM discredits Jesus"

you must have missed that part of the website, where James tells us that Jesus is the leader of the Lyricus Teaching Order, and is very involved in this teaching... I posted it in another thread, and will post it again here so that you can see, that what you BELIEVE about the WMM are not necessarily what they are teaching...

No i didn't miss it at all.

I said in various posts that James discredits many of the teachings and concepts used by Jesus yet incongruously, saves a respected place for him in the WM cosmology. The reason i say it's incongruous is because i illustrated the core teachings of Jesus, Guatama and Krishna to show how they were all essentially the same and i then outlined how James had dismissed many of the concepts they taught as products of the human mind system. I suggested on another post too that James was most likely using Jesus name as just a convenience in order to cast the net as widely as possible. The Galactic Federation do the same thing with sananda/jesus..

I indicated also that James had lifted the core teachings of these and other adepts, renamed them and then claimed they originated from the wingmakers.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

you just keep making yourself look more and more IGNOREant with every post...again I wonder what your agenda is, by discrediting the WMMs...perhaps you have something better to offer, than saving your self?

Why, because you forgot what i wrote?

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

What you apparently fail to understand is that the WMMs are not associated with any ORG (on Earth)...there is NO LEADER, no doctrine, no rituals, no dogma, and no clergy... they are "tool" created to help humanity wake up and recognize who they ARE...

1) James is the leader pretending singularly unique personal powers and singularly unique cosmic responsibilities.

2) There is a complex doctrine in complex language aimed at the intellect.

3) The breathing exercises (which are not new) are a ritual but nothing wrong with that.

4) In various posts you dogmatically insist on the veracity of all details.

5) You're behaving like WM clergy, rushing about with clerical zeal putting out heretical fires wherever they appear.

6) There is likely organisational weight behind the WMM, possibly illuminati.

I don't accept the WMM was created to help anyone awaken to who they are, although unavoidably for it's veiled purpose, there is a fair portion of truth in the WMM.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

No one can do this for you...the work that needs to be done must be done by you, by searching withIN your self, for your "true idenity" and then learning how to express it through the Human Instrument. You can't just read the materials and say, oh yes, I know what a Sovereign Integral is... you have to experience it for yourself.

Deja-vu.

This is precisely what every spiritual teacher worth their salt has always taught, forever. Nothing wrong with that. All the adepts and their messengers taught that one must experience IT for oneself. "True identity" has gone by so many names at different times in different cultures that i won't list them all here. Just a few of those names are :

'Christ', 'Buddha', 'Krishna', 'Brahma', 'Atma', 'Bodhi', 'Dharma-kaya', I AM that I AM etc etc etc.

James calls it "Sovereign Integral"? Fine, but let us not pretend that a new name is a new revelation. The necessity to awaken to "true identity" is now so well accepted by modern seekers that no false teacher fails to include it in their own construct. Countless false teachers have done so throughout the 20th century (and before) and many continue to do so in the modern channelling phenomena. It has become a staple of parrots, guaranteed to attract seekers like bees to pollen.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Until you have actually done that, you can not KNOW what you are talking about...

I agree.

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

...which obviously you don't. I suggest that you allow other to forumulate their own opinions without blanketing the interview with your own insecurities.

Others will formulate their own opinions anyway. Compare the interview and James website with my few posts. 1000 to 1. If you're suggesting that the motive for recording my POV on the forum is "insecurity" i'll just add that to the list of reasons which your ego has produced in order to justify why anyone with objections to the WMM might speak up. To repeat a few already on the list: "weak minded", "Lazy hearted", "not up to the challenge", "undiscerning", "intellect driven", "fearful", "disrespectful", "misrepresenting James"...

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

If the interview resonates the heart strings, then you have your own "proof" ... if it does not, then move on to something that does...but to bash at James, and to misrepresent what he is sharing is disrespectful...and if you are as "sensitive" as you pretend to be, then you would certainly not Do unto others, what you would not have them do unto you... Please, give it a rest... you never make yourself look good, when you belittle others.

Resonance can be a tricky thing because the very best propaganda is calculated to resonate. But i take your point... Perhaps what i've had to say will resonate with someone.

I'm doing no-one any harm.

[Czymra]

I just found this thread as it's separate from the one on Camelot. The two forum structure isn't really helping, is it?

Anyway, what I would like to get out there is that, yet again, my 'discernment', as you all call it, zeros in exactly between Milk and Honey and EndJoy, just like on the other thread.

The WingMakers Materials resonates intensely with me and I have concluded that I will go there on occasion and browse as it opens my perceptions, does away with some too fixed concepts and makes me more aware of some fears. Everything else, I don't feel right with. It's all too obvious that, nowadays, misinformation is everywhere, and speaking that 'the truth lies in each of us' and yet going about and making up a whole system/myth of ever so eloquent phrases, come on.
Alright, they are nice to speak to my subconscious. They sank in for a while and they resonate with an interesting new pattern. But if all is one then discrediting anybody ain't the deal. Even if you say "by the way, Jesus is one of us". Right.

I conclude that all the spiritualism is great, for it allows you greater control over the Matrix/HMS. Why not strive for that even if it's only for defence against all the Mind Control etc. On the other hand, all the **** of systematic languages, beliefs etc has to be thrown out every now and then. It's like spring cleaning. Looking for the emptiness within oneself beyond anything fancy, uprooting all the fears. Can't be bad either.

I think one should try to do both without falling for any dogma.

Now if someone could tell me how...

[ENdJOY]

I really do have to laugh, Milk and Honey... having lived perhaps twice as long as you (just guessing) and I have learned the "mirror effect" very well... I came here to share what I KNOW...you came here to share what you BELIEVE

"The faults you find in other are your OWN...you recognize them in the mirrors placed before you...which gives you an opportunity to correct them" paraphrased from ancient Kabbalist teachings.

another ancient tactic, is to kill the messenger when you don't agree with the message

and one final thought...opinions are like a$$-holes, everyone has one and they all stink

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

I really do have to laugh, Milk and Honey... having lived perhaps twice as long as you (just guessing) and I have learned the "mirror effect" very well... I came here to share what I KNOW...you came here to share what you BELIEVE

"The faults you find in other are your OWN...you recognize them in the mirrors placed before you...which gives you an opportunity to correct them" paraphrased from ancient Kabbalist teachings.

another ancient tactic, is to kill the messenger when you don't agree with the message

and one final thought...opinions are like a$$-holes, everyone has one and they all stink

I see that she there would be 'too much sharing of the own belief', which I personally don't care much about. What about all the criticism to vital points? I rather have the feeling that you are dropping below the waistline here. No offence but I don't see how anyone's statement in this thread is any better or any worse then somebody else's. We're all here for the same reason after all. No one seems particularly enlightened however.

[ENdJOY]

dear efields...I agree with all that you have said concerning religions...but don't throw the baby out with the bath water eh? you may have missed this "disclaimer" in James' answer

Jesus incarnated not for the purpose of begetting a religion. He simply expressed his vision of the spiritual dimensions, making First Source accessible and singular. His fellow humans were so eager for the fulfillment of prophecy that they imposed upon him the mantle of Messiah, which he hesitantly agreed to shoulder.

I can understand that...having been 33 ... if he had lived long enough, he may have shrugged that mantle off... some believe he went to India with Mary, after the "resurection" and lived to be 104...I once met a guy who traced his ancestry back to Jesus...he said that when he went missing in the Bible histories, he was on the trade routes with his Uncle...and while in England, (married?)and fathered some children from which he descended ... ha ha typical teen... I never did buy into the hype that he was any "more" a son of god that the rest of us...but somewhere along the line he did develope "christ consciousness"...ie a Sovereign Integral's perspective

what the Romans did to the scriptures is well documented...but some people just can't handle the truth.