Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth...

ENdJOY · 12-06-2008, 08:03 PM

dear Milk and Honey

you may BELIEVE anything you will... but it does not make it truth...

if you have read the interview, you have read, that the "portal" was just (first) opened to the multi dimensions in 1998 and that with very few exceptions, those who BELIEVED they were traveling to other worlds were decieved by realities within realities...of the mind.

the discerning factor here would be the intent of the person "channeling" or "traveling" to other "worlds"... if it was an act in service to self, or an in the case of the Wingmakers, in service to the species.

James, has revealed this to us, in service to the species, to keep those seeking self aggrandizement from using our trusting nature to fool us, and to perpetuate programs of the HMS.

yes, we do have a fail proof system to determine truth, as the strings of our hearts resonate with it when they are aligned (like a tuning fork) to the tone of equality.

Examine you own emotional responses and determine if they express your true identity, or if they are programed responses that support the HMS... the true emotions of an energized and activated heart will be expressed as Appreciation, Compassion, Forgiveness, Humility, Understanding and Valor... and not judgments, anger, greed, hatred or rejection.

how does that make YOU feel?

milk and honey · 12-07-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

dear Milk and Honey

you may BELIEVE anything you will... but it does not make it truth...

Of course. I wasn't only asserting my beliefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

if you have read the interview, you have read, that the "portal" was just (first) opened to the multi dimensions in 1998 and that with very few exceptions, those who BELIEVED they were traveling to other worlds were decieved by realities within realities...of the mind.

You believe that a "portal" was first opened in 1998 (one that presumably effects the integrity of channelled messages) only because James stated it as a fact. But it's not true. The only "portal" of any personal significance is within you and it always has been. It is your spiritual-Self. It has always been accessable to your soul. Jesus' main message ~ 2000 years ago was to remind everyone of that inner reality because we had forgotten it.

He said, "The kingdom of heaven (your spiritual- Self) is within you."

The individual is a multi-dimensionl being in a multi-dimensional universe. These dimensions have never been closed to us except by our own failure to maintain our personal attunement with higher octaves. Any suggestion by James that approximately 1998 years after Jesus confirmed our inner accessability to higher dimensions, that a "portal" has recently "opened for the first time" is simply untrue.

It betrays, at least, his misunderstanding of Jesus main message ~2000 years ago.

You did suggest that, with few exceptions, most people entertain mental illusions rather than real spiritual communion. I agree. It's true in daily life and true with attempts at channelling / translating entities beyond the mundane. That's what i was indicating about the WMM. Some translators / channelllors open themselves to lower-astral entities masquarading as true spiritual adepts. They don't have the discenment to know the difference. Others knowingly weave their own construct from the fabric of plaigerised and misunderstood sources of spiritual truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

the discerning factor here would be the intent of the person "channeling" or "traveling" to other "worlds"... if it was an act in service to self, or an in the case of the Wingmakers, in service to the species.

James, has revealed this to us, in service to the species, to keep those seeking self aggrandizement from using our trusting nature to fool us, and to perpetuate programs of the HMS.

Most people know the metaphysical market place is full of hucksters anyway, just not the ones that appeal to them.

'Intent' is not the only discerning factor when appraising channelled / translated information. Many people intend goodwill as they help others and they do it according to their evolution and abilities. But the intent to serve others does not automatically qualify someone as a clear channel. If only life was so simple.

Unfortunately, well intentioned people are decieved with monotonous regularity because there are often conflicting subconscious motivations which the person has not been willing to face. The right intent is the right trajectory to gaining clarity of consciousness. But it doesn't automatically qualify one as having that clarity. Really, the only qualification is to have a level of conscious realisation of inner-Spirit. Even then, there is the necessity to "try the spirits". ie, Judge them by vibration and the content of their message.

The vast majority of channellors / translators fail that test because they do not know themselves as well as they think. Self- deception allows them to be decieved by astral imposters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Examine you own emotional responses and determine if they express your true identity, or if they are programed responses that support the HMS... the true emotions of an energized and activated heart will be expressed as Appreciation, Compassion, Forgiveness, Humility, Understanding and Valor... and not judgments, anger, greed, hatred or rejection.

It is easy to agree that we should examine ourselves and i do. But the WMM is worthy of examination too and is best approached with the discernment of the heart. The spiritual heart is my true identity. The heart separates the real from the unreal. That means judging by vibration, intent and content. If the WMM fails that test in critical respects then it necessitates my rejecting it. That doesn't make me an angry or hateful person for explaining why. If the material is public then let me speak publically too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

how does that make YOU feel?

I feel well. I've been at peace in my posting here and i'm enjoying it very much.

giovonni · 12-07-2008, 05:07 PM

Greeting's Avalonian's,

All information will not radiate nor resinate, within each of us> in the same ways and at the same time. Saying that, I use a very simple rule, when judging the words coming from human mouths; The truth is neither here nor there, it is usually in the middle. Each of us, whether intending too> or not, speaks with both truth (with some exaggeration) and falseness (with sometimes intended decit). More often, truth resinates best, from what sounds logical> within ones own mine.

No Hunan Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out!
giovonni

Frank Samuel · 12-07-2008, 05:14 PM

Many events in history has been distorted, especially our sets of believes. That why it is shocking to always find another layer of the so called truth.
One thing in the interview made a lot of sense we are all connected, and the awakening process is individualistic. When you are free you no longer fear the prison which we have created for ourselves. The truth we seek is not found in any book is within you. Is easy to see how we all disagree all coming from different backgrounds and sets of believes,ideas and perspectives. I for one love to challenge my sets of believes , rattle my tree sort of speak. My advice is use what resonates with you throw the rest in the garbage. The Annunaki explanation is going to the garbage as far as I am concerned, althought he brings out the concept of a God of duality, good and evil. Few absolutes from the viewpoint of this explanation then we ourselves must evolve beyond the level of annu

The spanish meaning of the word Annu more or less sums up his emphatic belief in this being. In all fairness to the Wing Makers web site many links have gotten inspiration from these works, and most are well thought of and revelant . I learn quite a lot form the web links posted on these sites, for example. http://www.soulconnection.net/ http://edwardlong.com/
If you are searching for truth just keep searching and enjoy your journey.

micjer · 12-08-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giovonni

Greeting's Avalonian's,

All information will not radiate nor resinate, within each of us> in the same ways and at the same time. Saying that, I use a very simple rule, when judging the words coming from human mouths; The truth is neither here nor there, it is usually in the middle. Each of us, whether intending too> or not, speaks with both truth (with some exaggeration) and falseness (with sometimes intended decit). More often, truth resinates best, from what sounds logical> within ones own mine.

No Hunan Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out!
giovonni

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel

Many events in history has been distorted, especially our sets of believes. That why it is shocking to always find another layer of the so called truth.
One thing in the interview made a lot of sense we are all connected, and the awakening process is individualistic. When you are free you no longer fear the prison which we have created for ourselves. The truth we seek is not found in any book is within you.

I agree and I agree.

It is amazing how we have all done our research and ended up here at the top of the pyramid of information and we are splitting hairs on the final pieces of the puzzle. I believe that the answers do reside within and we need to follow our own individual feelings. No one book or prophet knows all of the answers, it is up to us to find our way through the maze.

I don`t feel that the wingmakers` info discredits Jesus in anyway only it says his message has been distorted. If this was the new world religion would it not try to discredit him and introduce a new messiah with all of the answers, to follow!

milk and honey · 12-08-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micjer

I don`t feel that the wingmakers` info discredits Jesus in anyway only it says his message has been distorted. If this was the new world religion would it not try to discredit him and introduce a new messiah with all of the answers, to follow!

The WMM discredits Jesus and every spiritual teacher by distorting the true meaning of the concepts they use. The WMM can't claim fraternity with Jesus or any other adept who's teachings, on the one hand they plaigerise without due credit, and on the other they misrepresent and dismiss with analyses duller than a fundamentalist religionist.

In post #65 i explained it some more.

As to which one is going to be the new world religion i have no idea. The PTB have many irons in the fire simultaneously. It will depend on a lot of things not the least being who survives public credulity with their supposed credibility intact. Not just "who", but which "organised teaching" will survive that test and be capable of assuming the role of 'incubator' for the appearance of the 'Great One', whenever that turns out to be. Will it be the WMM? I haven't a clue but they're positioning themselves as a unique and indispensable source of 'truth' for humanity that's clear. Listening to James' schpiel one couldn't concieve of a more qualified man on the face of the earth.... that's a big part of his trip.

But i think what's more important is that it may not be necessary ever to promote the same 'savior figure' to everyone so long as humanity is swallowing it's medicine from many agents of the PTB. That could continue indefinitely -- though deep down i doubt it when guys like James pop onto the stage -- if they consider our minds are sufficiently mushed to accept the philosophical foundations of political / economic "union" according to their idea of human "oneness". That of course is a very different idea to spiritual "Oneness".

Ashatav · 12-09-2008, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milk and honey

The WMM discredits Jesus and every spiritual teacher by distorting the true meaning of the concepts they use. The WMM can't claim fraternity with Jesus or any other adept who's teachings, on the one hand they plaigerise without due credit, and on the other they misrepresent and dismiss with analyses duller than a fundamentalist religionist.

In post #65 i explained it some more.

As to which one is going to be the new world religion i have no idea. The PTB have many irons in the fire simultaneously. It will depend on a lot of things not the least being who survives public credulity with their supposed credibility intact. Not just "who", but which "organised teaching" will survive that test and be capable of assuming the role of 'incubator' for the appearance of the 'Great One', whenever that turns out to be. Will it be the WMM? I haven't a clue but they're positioning themselves as a unique and indispensable source of 'truth' for humanity that's clear. Listening to James' schpiel one couldn't concieve of a more qualified man on the face of the earth.... that's a big part of his trip.

But i think what's more important is that it may not be necessary ever to promote the same 'savior figure' to everyone so long as humanity is swallowing it's medicine from many agents of the PTB. That could continue indefinitely -- though deep down i doubt it when guys like James pop onto the stage -- if they consider our minds are sufficiently mushed to accept the philosophical foundations of political / economic "union" according to their idea of human "oneness". That of course is a very different idea to spiritual "Oneness".

In fact, by example, "Jesus" is one of the "ascended masters" haha, to understand the level of the scam and the level of the scamers (remember that the basic teosophy books are "channeled" ugghh)

Cheers!

Kelphi · 12-12-2008, 05:53 AM

Every knee will bow (before God) and every tongue will confess (before God) that Jesus Christ is Lord. Romans 14:9

Before God. Think about that. Before God. That means when we die. Life over, self over, no more demons to tickle our hears to what we want to hear.

Before God means you and I will see a throne. And if you did not trust Christ while you were living you will be judged by your own standards and it wont be pretty. Woe, woe, woe to you. Books will be opened and you will be utterly trembling with fear at this point knowing that all you had to do was put your faith and trust in Christ Jesus as your substitute for sin.

But no. You had to be a big shot. You told yourself the bible was mistranslated and organized religion was designed to control people by the government. Oh when God laughs at your calamity you will utterly be without excuse. In a last ditch effort you will then confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and suddenly you will realize His word (bible) was true, and total inescapable horror will come over you. And off into the pit you will fall cursing violently who just in seconds you were kneeling before and confessing was God.

But I fear, lest somehow the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds will be corrupted from the (simplicity) that is in Christ Jesus. 2Cor 11:2-4

Look, you probably right now are thinking how you could possibly clean yourself up and come to Jesus or ever stop the sins that you so love.

You must know. Its God that cleans all this up, not you. You don't have the power. Just consider with me how powerful this sin really is. Sin, your sin, your love of sin, is keeping you from turning to Jesus Christ. What all this bible stuff really comes down to is that you do not want to give up your precious sins. Your quest for truth demands that sin be of non-existence. This is your ultimate truth goal that you so desire to cling to. This is how powerful sin is. And only God can rid you of it and give you the power to control it.

This is why christians are so weird to you. The reason christians go to church is not to get into heaven but its because they have been given a free gift of pardon in Christ Jesus' substitutionary shed blood and promised Heaven if they put their faith and trust in this sacrifice. It is that simple. We don't have a license to sin but rather we have a sword that kills it from ever having any power over us in this life time and after death. Yes we christians do sin but we now have the ability to say no to sin and be very successful at it. This is how we know God has given us this free gift. Our lives have been radically changed. I mean radically, over night.

While on this Earth. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved. And God will open your eyes to His word in the bible and you will be filled and satisfied with a truth that passes all understanding.

In love,

Kelphi

ENdJOY · 12-12-2008, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Ashatav

Wow, all are therms of the Urantia book.

no they are not...you may have them confused in your mind, but the terms used by the WMs are unique to those materials...and so is the information they are sharing...check again...this is a perfect example of why James said, that when you "compare" the WMMs with other works, you will become confused.

ENdJOY · 12-12-2008, 06:43 AM

Milk and Honey said "The WMM discredits Jesus"

you must have missed that part of the website, where James tells us that Jesus is the leader of the Lyricus Teaching Order, and is very involved in this teaching... I posted it in another thread, and will post it again here so that you can see, that what you BELIEVE about the WMM are not necessarily what they are teaching...

Quote:

Question 17 -- Who was Jesus Christ in relation to the WingMakers?

For those of you who will read these words, and are steeped in Christianity, forgive the manner of my response. I am not a man who communicates delicately when speaking my truth.

Jesus incarnated not for the purpose of begetting a religion. He simply expressed his vision of the spiritual dimensions, making First Source accessible and singular. His fellow humans were so eager for the fulfillment of prophecy that they imposed upon him the mantle of Messiah, which he hesitantly agreed to shoulder.

Jesus presently serves a leadership role in the teaching organization of which I spoke of earlier, which is made up of authentic spiritual leaders of earth. He is very much aware of both the WingMakers and Lyricus. An interesting footnote: While the religious organizations compete for human membership, those teachers who are responsible for the religions' origin operate in collaboration and cooperation beneath the same, bold banner: human evolution. Those teachers who have translated from the physical to the interdimensional realms remain powerful teachers of humanity. They shift their focus from individualistic missions to collaborative missions, and in this spirit of collaboration, become increasingly powerful as change agents for the human condition. Jesus, in particular, operates as a managing director of the teaching organization, and in this role, interfaces with Lyricus on planning and analysis of the Grand Portal.[/SIZE]

There is a common understanding among the teaching core that the confluence of science, art, and religion is inevitable, and it will culminate in the scientific discovery of the human soul, and more specifically, how the human soul is designed. Much like the physical body has a human genome, the spiritual body, or Wholeness Navigator, has a spiritual genome. And this genome is far more important to understand than the human because it is the causal element, while the human genome is the receptor.

There are six components to this effort that are coordinated:

1. Lyricus designs, transposes, and installs galactic Tributary Zones to a planetary system

2. Earth teachers (non-physical) prepare the species for acceptance of the Grand Portal

3. Earth teachers (physical) discover the way to the Grand Portal via the Tributary Zones

4. Earth teachers (physical) disseminate and preserve the knowledge of the Grand Portal

5. Earth teachers (physical and non-physical) unite humanity to the Sovereign Integral Network

6. Source Intelligence and Lyricus facilitate the process throughout the Grand Universe

Jesus' role is of high importance in stage two, and in approximately eighty years, in stage five. He essentially leads this process with the collaborative assistance of the entire teaching organization of ascended (non-physical) teachers.

you just keep making yourself look more and more IGNOREant with every post...again I wonder what your agenda is, by discrediting the WMMs...perhaps you have something better to offer, than saving your self? What you apparently fail to understand is that the WMMs are not associated with any ORG (on Earth)...there is NO LEADER, no doctrine, no rituals, no dogma, and no clergy... they are "tool" created to help humanity wake up and recognize who they ARE... No one can do this for you...the work that needs to be done must be done by you, by searching withIN your self, for your "true idenity" and then learning how to express it through the Human Instrument. You can't just read the materials and say, oh yes, I know what a Sovereign Integral is... you have to experience it for yourself.

Until you have actually done that, you can not KNOW what you are talking about... which obviously you don't. I suggest that you allow other to forumulate their own opinions without blanketing the interview with your own insecurities. If the interview resonates the heart strings, then you have your own "proof" ... if it does not, then move on to something that does...but to bash at James, and to misrepresent what he is sharing is disrespectful...and if you are as "sensitive" as you pretend to be, then you would certainly not Do unto others, what you would not have them do unto you... Please, give it a rest... you never make yourself look good, when you belittle others.

Josefine · 12-12-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Milk and Honey said "The WMM discredits Jesus"

you must have missed that part of the website, where James tells us that Jesus is the leader of the Lyricus Teaching Order, and is very involved in this teaching... I posted it in another thread, and will post it again here so that you can see, that what you BELIEVE about the WMM are not necessarily what they are teaching...

you just keep making yourself look more and more IGNOREant with every post...again I wonder what your agenda is, by discrediting the WMMs...perhaps you have something better to offer, than saving your self? What you apparently fail to understand is that the WMMs are not associated with any ORG (on Earth)...there is NO LEADER, no doctrine, no rituals, no dogma, and no clergy... they are "tool" created to help humanity wake up and recognize who they ARE... No one can do this for you...the work that needs to be done must be done by you, by searching withIN your self, for your "true idenity" and then learning how to express it through the Human Instrument. You can't just read the materials and say, oh yes, I know what a Sovereign Integral is... you have to experience it for yourself.

Until you have actually done that, you can not KNOW what you are talking about... which obviously you don't. I suggest that you allow other to forumulate their own opinions without blanketing the interview with your own insecurities. If the interview resonates the heart strings, then you have your own "proof" ... if it does not, then move on to something that does...but to bash at James, and to misrepresent what he is sharing is disrespectful...and if you are as "sensitive" as you pretend to be, then you would certainly not Do unto others, what you would not have them do unto you... Please, give it a rest... you never make yourself look good, when you belittle others.

Having the material resonate with our heartstrings is certainly one way of judging it, but to give a balanced response is certainly to be preferred. It avoids the 'All or Nothing' trap. Good thing that there is always a third road reconciling the dualities?
Is this the time for a 'Born Again Jamesonian Movement'??? If you don't fall on your knees, get lost?

These claims about Jesus Christ really takes the prize! Clever try, if I may say so.

efields · 12-12-2008, 01:58 PM

Im not convinced there even was a Jesus as you believers believe. Yes some figure or an amalgamation of figures were turned into the myth Jesus by the corrupt all seeing all powerful Church with their INSANE power

Remember what the original forefathers Fought For to start The US? Separation of Church and State? Now you have a monkey like Bush who seeks to wed the 2 UGGHHHH. Thank goodness he's almost GONE. When I saw all that voted for HIM, that was a good case to leave this ignorant country of Bible Thumpers. Just like the Moslems just a different BOOK..... LOL Zealots all.

pilot · 12-12-2008, 07:10 PM

Ok now

pilot · 12-12-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENDJOY

you just keep making yourself look more and more IGNOREant with every post...again I wonder what your agenda is, by discrediting the WMMs...perhaps you have something better to offer, than saving your self? What you apparently fail to understand is that the WMMs are not associated with any ORG (on Earth)...there is NO LEADER, no doctrine, no rituals, no dogma, and no clergy... they are "tool" created to help humanity wake up and recognize who they ARE... No one can do this for you...the work that needs to be done must be done by you, by searching withIN your self, for your "true idenity" and then learning how to express it through the Human Instrument. You can't just read the materials and say, oh yes, I know what a Sovereign Integral is... you have to experience it for yourself.

Until you have actually done that, you can not KNOW what you are talking about... which obviously you don't. I suggest that you allow other to forumulate their own opinions without blanketing the interview with your own insecurities. If the interview resonates the heart strings, then you have your own "proof" ... if it does not, then move on to something that does...but to bash at James, and to misrepresent what he is sharing is disrespectful...and if you are as "sensitive" as you pretend to be, then you would certainly not Do unto others, what you would not have them do unto you... Please, give it a rest... you never make yourself look good, when you belittle others.

I believe your slip is showing endjoy, you are the one with the agenda, that is obvious. Those on this forum who are not falling all over themselves in praise of WMM bring up valuable points, but you feel it is your duty to answer every one and claim it is but the unification of mankind that inspires this. Please.

If WMM is the grand portal to the divine, it hardly needs you to defend it. Your activities are approaching coercive-and that ain't cool, I would say the same to anyone pushing a spiritual path. If you like it, practice it. Stop trying to sell it or you may just find that your efforts are going to result in the opposite of what you intend. Get it??

milk and honey · 12-12-2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Milk and Honey said "The WMM discredits Jesus"

you must have missed that part of the website, where James tells us that Jesus is the leader of the Lyricus Teaching Order, and is very involved in this teaching... I posted it in another thread, and will post it again here so that you can see, that what you BELIEVE about the WMM are not necessarily what they are teaching...

No i didn't miss it at all.

I said in various posts that James discredits many of the teachings and concepts used by Jesus yet incongruously, saves a respected place for him in the WM cosmology. The reason i say it's incongruous is because i illustrated the core teachings of Jesus, Guatama and Krishna to show how they were all essentially the same and i then outlined how James had dismissed many of the concepts they taught as products of the human mind system. I suggested on another post too that James was most likely using Jesus name as just a convenience in order to cast the net as widely as possible. The Galactic Federation do the same thing with sananda/jesus..

I indicated also that James had lifted the core teachings of these and other adepts, renamed them and then claimed they originated from the wingmakers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

you just keep making yourself look more and more IGNOREant with every post...again I wonder what your agenda is, by discrediting the WMMs...perhaps you have something better to offer, than saving your self?

Why, because you forgot what i wrote?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

What you apparently fail to understand is that the WMMs are not associated with any ORG (on Earth)...there is NO LEADER, no doctrine, no rituals, no dogma, and no clergy... they are "tool" created to help humanity wake up and recognize who they ARE...

1) James is the leader pretending singularly unique personal powers and singularly unique cosmic responsibilities.

2) There is a complex doctrine in complex language aimed at the intellect.

3) The breathing exercises (which are not new) are a ritual but nothing wrong with that.

4) In various posts you dogmatically insist on the veracity of all details.

5) You're behaving like WM clergy, rushing about with clerical zeal putting out heretical fires wherever they appear.

6) There is likely organisational weight behind the WMM, possibly illuminati.

I don't accept the WMM was created to help anyone awaken to who they are, although unavoidably for it's veiled purpose, there is a fair portion of truth in the WMM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

No one can do this for you...the work that needs to be done must be done by you, by searching withIN your self, for your "true idenity" and then learning how to express it through the Human Instrument. You can't just read the materials and say, oh yes, I know what a Sovereign Integral is... you have to experience it for yourself.

Deja-vu.

This is precisely what every spiritual teacher worth their salt has always taught, forever. Nothing wrong with that. All the adepts and their messengers taught that one must experience IT for oneself. "True identity" has gone by so many names at different times in different cultures that i won't list them all here. Just a few of those names are :

'Christ', 'Buddha', 'Krishna', 'Brahma', 'Atma', 'Bodhi', 'Dharma-kaya', I AM that I AM etc etc etc.

James calls it "Sovereign Integral"? Fine, but let us not pretend that a new name is a new revelation. The necessity to awaken to "true identity" is now so well accepted by modern seekers that no false teacher fails to include it in their own construct. Countless false teachers have done so throughout the 20th century (and before) and many continue to do so in the modern channelling phenomena. It has become a staple of parrots, guaranteed to attract seekers like bees to pollen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Until you have actually done that, you can not KNOW what you are talking about...

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

...which obviously you don't. I suggest that you allow other to forumulate their own opinions without blanketing the interview with your own insecurities.

Others will formulate their own opinions anyway. Compare the interview and James website with my few posts. 1000 to 1. If you're suggesting that the motive for recording my POV on the forum is "insecurity" i'll just add that to the list of reasons which your ego has produced in order to justify why anyone with objections to the WMM might speak up. To repeat a few already on the list: "weak minded", "Lazy hearted", "not up to the challenge", "undiscerning", "intellect driven", "fearful", "disrespectful", "misrepresenting James"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

If the interview resonates the heart strings, then you have your own "proof" ... if it does not, then move on to something that does...but to bash at James, and to misrepresent what he is sharing is disrespectful...and if you are as "sensitive" as you pretend to be, then you would certainly not Do unto others, what you would not have them do unto you... Please, give it a rest... you never make yourself look good, when you belittle others.

Resonance can be a tricky thing because the very best propaganda is calculated to resonate. But i take your point... Perhaps what i've had to say will resonate with someone.

I'm doing no-one any harm.

Czymra · 12-12-2008, 10:32 PM

I just found this thread as it's separate from the one on Camelot. The two forum structure isn't really helping, is it?

Anyway, what I would like to get out there is that, yet again, my 'discernment', as you all call it, zeros in exactly between Milk and Honey and EndJoy, just like on the other thread.

The WingMakers Materials resonates intensely with me and I have concluded that I will go there on occasion and browse as it opens my perceptions, does away with some too fixed concepts and makes me more aware of some fears. Everything else, I don't feel right with. It's all too obvious that, nowadays, misinformation is everywhere, and speaking that 'the truth lies in each of us' and yet going about and making up a whole system/myth of ever so eloquent phrases, come on.
Alright, they are nice to speak to my subconscious. They sank in for a while and they resonate with an interesting new pattern. But if all is one then discrediting anybody ain't the deal. Even if you say "by the way, Jesus is one of us". Right.

I conclude that all the spiritualism is great, for it allows you greater control over the Matrix/HMS. Why not strive for that even if it's only for defence against all the Mind Control etc. On the other hand, all the **** of systematic languages, beliefs etc has to be thrown out every now and then. It's like spring cleaning. Looking for the emptiness within oneself beyond anything fancy, uprooting all the fears. Can't be bad either.

I think one should try to do both without falling for any dogma.

Now if someone could tell me how...

ENdJOY · 12-12-2008, 11:14 PM

I really do have to laugh, Milk and Honey... having lived perhaps twice as long as you (just guessing) and I have learned the "mirror effect" very well... I came here to share what I KNOW...you came here to share what you BELIEVE

"The faults you find in other are your OWN...you recognize them in the mirrors placed before you...which gives you an opportunity to correct them" paraphrased from ancient Kabbalist teachings.

another ancient tactic, is to kill the messenger when you don't agree with the message

and one final thought...opinions are like a$$-holes, everyone has one and they all stink

Czymra · 12-12-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

I really do have to laugh, Milk and Honey... having lived perhaps twice as long as you (just guessing) and I have learned the "mirror effect" very well... I came here to share what I KNOW...you came here to share what you BELIEVE

"The faults you find in other are your OWN...you recognize them in the mirrors placed before you...which gives you an opportunity to correct them" paraphrased from ancient Kabbalist teachings.

another ancient tactic, is to kill the messenger when you don't agree with the message

and one final thought...opinions are like a$$-holes, everyone has one and they all stink

I see that she there would be 'too much sharing of the own belief', which I personally don't care much about. What about all the criticism to vital points? I rather have the feeling that you are dropping below the waistline here. No offence but I don't see how anyone's statement in this thread is any better or any worse then somebody else's. We're all here for the same reason after all. No one seems particularly enlightened however.

ENdJOY · 12-12-2008, 11:31 PM

dear efields...I agree with all that you have said concerning religions...but don't throw the baby out with the bath water eh? you may have missed this "disclaimer" in James' answer

Quote:

Jesus incarnated not for the purpose of begetting a religion. He simply expressed his vision of the spiritual dimensions, making First Source accessible and singular. His fellow humans were so eager for the fulfillment of prophecy that they imposed upon him the mantle of Messiah, which he hesitantly agreed to shoulder.

I can understand that...having been 33 ... if he had lived long enough, he may have shrugged that mantle off... some believe he went to India with Mary, after the "resurection" and lived to be 104...I once met a guy who traced his ancestry back to Jesus...he said that when he went missing in the Bible histories, he was on the trade routes with his Uncle...and while in England, (married?)and fathered some children from which he descended ... ha ha typical teen... I never did buy into the hype that he was any "more" a son of god that the rest of us...but somewhere along the line he did develope "christ consciousness"...ie a Sovereign Integral's perspective

what the Romans did to the scriptures is well documented...but some people just can't handle the truth.

ENdJOY · 12-12-2008, 11:47 PM

Czymra...this is the point I was trying to make...what M&H is expressing is their own "belief system"... it is not based upon experience with the WMs or even this interview...it is based upon what they "believe" is being said...compared to what has been said before by others promoting other teaching, which support them.

James, is not the "leader" of the WMs "religion"... he didn't write them or steal or borrow them from some other teachings... the truth is, was, and always be the SAME, no matter who is expressing it...no one has a copyright on it

and if by saying, hitting below the belt, means trying to kill the messenger, yes, I agree... maybe this is why James has only come out from behind the curtain once before... because people want to take potshots at him, instead of addressing the message he is bearing.

Czymra · 12-12-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENdJOY

Maybe this is why James has only came out from behind the curtain once before... because people want to take potshots at him, instead of addressing the message he is bearing.

How do you differ between the message and the messenger here? It's not like we can separate the two is it?

Ashatav · 12-13-2008, 12:09 AM

The funniest thing is that some people believes everything, like the wingmakers/urantia.

Without proofs (or against the existent physical proofs).

Comes from No-Where.

Pro New World Order sillyness.

Is the Worst form of Religious fanatism existent.

(I don't have religion so don't bother attacking me for that).

Cheers.

ENdJOY · 12-13-2008, 12:10 AM

very simple... just pretend you don't know who said it... anyone with a Sovereign Integral's perspective could have answered these questions...and they would have answered them the same, in their own unique style.

the messenger is not the Wingmaker's materials...

ENdJOY · 12-13-2008, 12:16 AM

Ashatav...what makes you think you will be attacked for sharing your truth?

and how (or maybe better why) would anyone "believe everything" when it is stated clearly, that the materials contain, fact mixed with fiction, in their introduction? http://www.wingmakers.com/pre.htm

Quote:

Question 8: If the WingMakers story is both truth and fiction, how are we to discern which is which? If the identity of the WingMakers is quite authentic (i.e. true), how can it also be myth (i.e. fiction)?

Buddha stated: "All reality is a myth. Myth becomes ever nearer to reality." The quality of one's discernment is proportional to their ability to accelerate their movement to the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness. A system of philosophy like the WingMakers requires a high-level of discernment, and it is therefore teaching on multiple levels simultaneously by intermixing truth and fiction.

This material is not meant for the weak of mind or lazy of heart. It is extremely challenging on many different levels, discernment being one of them. There is a significant amount of information encoded into the art and music that bypasses the conscious mind. In this way, discernment is not required. However, the Ancient Arrow Project story is indeed fiction based on acquired insight of factual scenarios.

Ashatav · 12-13-2008, 12:26 AM

And New World Order propaganda, of course.

Imagine a persong singing this in the wilderness:

Worst Kind Of Religious Fanatism! Tra la la la

Believing without proofs! tra la la la

You must read this

MUAHAHAHA

12-06-2008, 08:03 PM	#1
ENdJOY Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 129	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... dear Milk and Honey you may BELIEVE anything you will... but it does not make it truth... if you have read the interview, you have read, that the "portal" was just (first) opened to the multi dimensions in 1998 and that with very few exceptions, those who BELIEVED they were traveling to other worlds were decieved by realities within realities...of the mind. the discerning factor here would be the intent of the person "channeling" or "traveling" to other "worlds"... if it was an act in service to self, or an in the case of the Wingmakers, in service to the species. James, has revealed this to us, in service to the species, to keep those seeking self aggrandizement from using our trusting nature to fool us, and to perpetuate programs of the HMS. yes, we do have a fail proof system to determine truth, as the strings of our hearts resonate with it when they are aligned (like a tuning fork) to the tone of equality. Examine you own emotional responses and determine if they express your true identity, or if they are programed responses that support the HMS... the true emotions of an energized and activated heart will be expressed as Appreciation, Compassion, Forgiveness, Humility, Understanding and Valor... and not judgments, anger, greed, hatred or rejection. how does that make YOU feel?

12-07-2008, 05:07 PM	#3
giovonni Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: within my heart Posts: 1,209	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Greeting's Avalonian's, All information will not radiate nor resinate, within each of us> in the same ways and at the same time. Saying that, I use a very simple rule, when judging the words coming from human mouths; The truth is neither here nor there, it is usually in the middle. Each of us, whether intending too> or not, speaks with both truth (with some exaggeration) and falseness (with sometimes intended decit). More often, truth resinates best, from what sounds logical> within ones own mine. No Hunan Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out! giovonni

12-07-2008, 05:14 PM	#4
Frank Samuel Project Avalon Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: i live in puerto rico Posts: 643	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Many events in history has been distorted, especially our sets of believes. That why it is shocking to always find another layer of the so called truth. One thing in the interview made a lot of sense we are all connected, and the awakening process is individualistic. When you are free you no longer fear the prison which we have created for ourselves. The truth we seek is not found in any book is within you. Is easy to see how we all disagree all coming from different backgrounds and sets of believes,ideas and perspectives. I for one love to challenge my sets of believes , rattle my tree sort of speak. My advice is use what resonates with you throw the rest in the garbage. The Annunaki explanation is going to the garbage as far as I am concerned, althought he brings out the concept of a God of duality, good and evil. Few absolutes from the viewpoint of this explanation then we ourselves must evolve beyond the level of annuThe spanish meaning of the word Annu more or less sums up his emphatic belief in this being. In all fairness to the Wing Makers web site many links have gotten inspiration from these works, and most are well thought of and revelant . I learn quite a lot form the web links posted on these sites, for example. http://www.soulconnection.net/ http://edwardlong.com/ If you are searching for truth just keep searching and enjoy your journey. Last edited by Frank Samuel; 12-09-2008 at 09:05 AM.

12-12-2008, 05:53 AM	#8
Kelphi Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 107	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Every knee will bow (before God) and every tongue will confess (before God) that Jesus Christ is Lord. Romans 14:9 Before God. Think about that. Before God. That means when we die. Life over, self over, no more demons to tickle our hears to what we want to hear. Before God means you and I will see a throne. And if you did not trust Christ while you were living you will be judged by your own standards and it wont be pretty. Woe, woe, woe to you. Books will be opened and you will be utterly trembling with fear at this point knowing that all you had to do was put your faith and trust in Christ Jesus as your substitute for sin. But no. You had to be a big shot. You told yourself the bible was mistranslated and organized religion was designed to control people by the government. Oh when God laughs at your calamity you will utterly be without excuse. In a last ditch effort you will then confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and suddenly you will realize His word (bible) was true, and total inescapable horror will come over you. And off into the pit you will fall cursing violently who just in seconds you were kneeling before and confessing was God. But I fear, lest somehow the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds will be corrupted from the (simplicity) that is in Christ Jesus. 2Cor 11:2-4 Look, you probably right now are thinking how you could possibly clean yourself up and come to Jesus or ever stop the sins that you so love. You must know. Its God that cleans all this up, not you. You don't have the power. Just consider with me how powerful this sin really is. Sin, your sin, your love of sin, is keeping you from turning to Jesus Christ. What all this bible stuff really comes down to is that you do not want to give up your precious sins. Your quest for truth demands that sin be of non-existence. This is your ultimate truth goal that you so desire to cling to. This is how powerful sin is. And only God can rid you of it and give you the power to control it. This is why christians are so weird to you. The reason christians go to church is not to get into heaven but its because they have been given a free gift of pardon in Christ Jesus' substitutionary shed blood and promised Heaven if they put their faith and trust in this sacrifice. It is that simple. We don't have a license to sin but rather we have a sword that kills it from ever having any power over us in this life time and after death. Yes we christians do sin but we now have the ability to say no to sin and be very successful at it. This is how we know God has given us this free gift. Our lives have been radically changed. I mean radically, over night. While on this Earth. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved. And God will open your eyes to His word in the bible and you will be filled and satisfied with a truth that passes all understanding. In love, Kelphi Last edited by Kelphi; 12-12-2008 at 05:59 AM.

12-12-2008, 01:58 PM	#12
efields Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vilcabamba, Ecuador Posts: 134	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Im not convinced there even was a Jesus as you believers believe. Yes some figure or an amalgamation of figures were turned into the myth Jesus by the corrupt all seeing all powerful Church with their INSANE power Remember what the original forefathers Fought For to start The US? Separation of Church and State? Now you have a monkey like Bush who seeks to wed the 2 UGGHHHH. Thank goodness he's almost GONE. When I saw all that voted for HIM, that was a good case to leave this ignorant country of Bible Thumpers. Just like the Moslems just a different BOOK..... LOL Zealots all. Last edited by efields; 12-12-2008 at 02:05 PM.

12-12-2008, 07:10 PM	#13
pilot Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: OK Posts: 153	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Ok now Last edited by pilot; 12-12-2008 at 07:16 PM. Reason: quote issues

12-12-2008, 10:32 PM	#16
Czymra Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,151	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... I just found this thread as it's separate from the one on Camelot. The two forum structure isn't really helping, is it? Anyway, what I would like to get out there is that, yet again, my 'discernment', as you all call it, zeros in exactly between Milk and Honey and EndJoy, just like on the other thread. The WingMakers Materials resonates intensely with me and I have concluded that I will go there on occasion and browse as it opens my perceptions, does away with some too fixed concepts and makes me more aware of some fears. Everything else, I don't feel right with. It's all too obvious that, nowadays, misinformation is everywhere, and speaking that 'the truth lies in each of us' and yet going about and making up a whole system/myth of ever so eloquent phrases, come on. Alright, they are nice to speak to my subconscious. They sank in for a while and they resonate with an interesting new pattern. But if all is one then discrediting anybody ain't the deal. Even if you say "by the way, Jesus is one of us". Right. I conclude that all the spiritualism is great, for it allows you greater control over the Matrix/HMS. Why not strive for that even if it's only for defence against all the Mind Control etc. On the other hand, all the **** of systematic languages, beliefs etc has to be thrown out every now and then. It's like spring cleaning. Looking for the emptiness within oneself beyond anything fancy, uprooting all the fears. Can't be bad either. I think one should try to do both without falling for any dogma. Now if someone could tell me how...

12-12-2008, 11:14 PM	#17
ENdJOY Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 129	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... I really do have to laugh, Milk and Honey... having lived perhaps twice as long as you (just guessing) and I have learned the "mirror effect" very well... I came here to share what I KNOW...you came here to share what you BELIEVE "The faults you find in other are your OWN...you recognize them in the mirrors placed before you...which gives you an opportunity to correct them" paraphrased from ancient Kabbalist teachings. another ancient tactic, is to kill the messenger when you don't agree with the message and one final thought...opinions are like a$$-holes, everyone has one and they all stink

12-12-2008, 11:47 PM	#20
ENdJOY Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 129	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Czymra...this is the point I was trying to make...what M&H is expressing is their own "belief system"... it is not based upon experience with the WMs or even this interview...it is based upon what they "believe" is being said...compared to what has been said before by others promoting other teaching, which support them. James, is not the "leader" of the WMs "religion"... he didn't write them or steal or borrow them from some other teachings... the truth is, was, and always be the SAME, no matter who is expressing it...no one has a copyright on it and if by saying, hitting below the belt, means trying to kill the messenger, yes, I agree... maybe this is why James has only come out from behind the curtain once before... because people want to take potshots at him, instead of addressing the message he is bearing. Last edited by ENdJOY; 12-12-2008 at 11:55 PM.

12-13-2008, 12:09 AM	#22
Ashatav Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 603	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... The funniest thing is that some people believes everything, like the wingmakers/urantia. Without proofs (or against the existent physical proofs). Comes from No-Where. Pro New World Order sillyness. Is the Worst form of Religious fanatism existent. (I don't have religion so don't bother attacking me for that). Cheers.

12-13-2008, 12:10 AM	#23
ENdJOY Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 129	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... very simple... just pretend you don't know who said it... anyone with a Sovereign Integral's perspective could have answered these questions...and they would have answered them the same, in their own unique style. the messenger is not the Wingmaker's materials...

12-13-2008, 12:26 AM	#25
Ashatav Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 603	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... And New World Order propaganda, of course. Imagine a persong singing this in the wilderness: Worst Kind Of Religious Fanatism! Tra la la la Believing without proofs! tra la la la You must read this MUAHAHAHA Last edited by Ashatav; 12-13-2008 at 12:33 AM.