Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

Our two largest challenges are pumping water and
refrigeration.

My preferred solutions would be a water tower, a steam
engine, and biogas.

I'm aware of several dairy operations that generate huge
amounts of biogas and convert it into electricity. There
is a Hutterite community in Northern Alberta that sells
excess biogas generated electricity to the local grid.

As far as lighting goes. We've started using strontium based phospholuminescent tape

Check this out.



http://www.identi-tape.com/phosphor.htm
These techniques can work. No pie in the sky here, and
steam is tried and true; a perfected technology.

[Dantheman62]

Hey D, check my post again up top, there's all kinds of natural candles so light isn't a problem, there's plenty of hand crank pumps out there so water isn't a problem, use wood for heat and cooking so the only thing your missing is refrigeration, which we never had any way in the old days, so there you go!

Otherpower home built steam powered generator video clip. With an appropriate battery bank you
would run this once a week to charge. Of course it could get as big and fancy as you can dream.
(solar, wind, hydrogen, ect ect ect) You could also run pump jacks or air compressors with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xksDjfLbcQ0

[NorthernSanctuary]

The Canadian Tire solar panels rust around the terminal contacts and don't last. Their products are too cheap.

Steam engines are a last alternative to generate electricity from burning wood. LED lighting is the most efficient; they are expensive now, but lasts for many years, may be decades (tens of thousands of hours). Solar panel breakthroughs will eventually reduce the cost, but the pole shift scenario will cover the sun for years; the same senario will give lots of rain, so hydro would be good where you have changes in elevation. The ZPE device is the answer if we can find the solution before the SHTF.

[Peace of Mine]

Most refrigeration systems require a condensing unit that throws off the heat. The keel-kooled unit is installed underneath the boat so that the heat disipates in the water. The colder the water, the more efficient the unit. Normal boat refrigeration systems have two pumps. One cools the unit by pumping water into the boat. One pumps refrigerant through the system. Two pumps take a lot of power.

With a keel-kooled unit, the compressor is the only pump. It pumps refrigerant through the keel-kooler, keeping the heat outside, thus increasing efficiency AND no need for water inside the boat. Much safer, no leaks, no sinking the boat.

We built a chest-type refrigerator, highly insulated, or you could choose a large unit sold through Boater's World that holds ice for up to a week. You mount the Fridg-O-Boat unit inside the box. Again, a DIY project. J can work on it and troubleshoot, a major benefit. This is, of course, a 12V set-up. It could be used with 24 V.

If you had running water, or a pond, nearby, you could use this technology on land. We put the unit in a bucket of water with a small amount of fresh water going in before we could install it underneath. Worked fine. It provides excellent refrigeration for very little power.

We have seen units that utilize the earth in a similar way. (Installed underground where the temperature remains at a constant cooler temperature)

DON'T FORGET LED LIGHTS! This is space-ship technology that continues to improve. Takes so little power, it hardly registers on the e-meter.

The two compounds in these long acting photoluminescent
pigments are strontium and europium. They are not radioactive and are cousins to the luminescent zinc oxide
of our youth. These are much brighter and longer lived then the zinc compounds.




examples of products using these compounds. Move your mouse over the photos in the link below

http://www.ez-bright.co.jp/en/products/products.html

Any source of heat will make steam. That engine will run
on government paperwork! My train of thought would
be to use biogas (methane) generated from decomposing
organic matter. True sustainable permaculture in action.
This would be best done at a community level rather than an individual level. Think city sewage plant. The methane is there waiting to be utilized. On a farm using
the already available manure/humanure which must be
disposed of anyway, is also highly viable. The process produces fuel for heating
and highly valuable compost for crops. It is also independent of centralized control

Refrigeration.

An already perfected technology exists using ammonia
as the refrigerant. Any heat source; kerosene, propane,
natural gas, biogas, heats the ammonia and starts
the cooling cycle. There are no moving parts!

http://home.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm

I have lusted for a propane refrigerator like this one
made by the Amish

http://www.propanerefrigerator.com/

but they are not mass produced, and are therefore very
expensive (2-3000 dollars). Their consumption of propane/kerosene is also fairly dear. The second issue
could be circumvented by using one configured for natural gas and piping home made biogas into it. Voila!
Sustainable refrigeration that will last as long as your
livestock produce manure!

Once again, this technology would best be implemented
at a community level. Aspects of the technology are time intensive - you don't fire up a steam engine and just
walk away and leave it. It needs watching and tending. In a radiant zone community this would be one of the many regular chores to be done to make a community work.

[doodah]

THANKS EVERYBODY! many great suggestions here.

I am at a disadvantage in having an old computer that cannot handle youtube ... so, those who gave youtube references ... do you have any other link to the same material? Something that could be read, maybe?

Dantheman - Thanks for your post. I'm still thinking about all this ... OK you stock up on candles, then you use them up. Remember those Medieval Cathedrals that had thousands of candles burning? How many candle-makers did it take to light by candles? Point being ... how do you make candles from vegetable oil, after you can't buy them anymore? Old cultures used oil lamps made from stone that burned animal fat.

For that matter, how would you make vegetable oil anyhow? (one of the great mysteries)

Baggywrinke - I've read about the photoluminescent paints. These are a nano product, as I understand it, but will have to do more research. There are paints now that will deodorize your house! That's nano too. Any nano is very scary as far as I'm concerned ... most of our technology has given with one hand and taken with the other, and nobody knows whether any of this stuff is safe in the long haul at the molecular level.

LED lights sounds good. I've read of a guy in Virginia who invented a light that somehow works in a long tube filled (with something ... research needed) that requires that you turn the tube every couple hours to keep the light working. He's probably got a patent on this though!

Peace of Mine -- Thanks for descriptions. You are reminding me about in-ground ... very doable for moderate refrigeration/ in-water also, yes, non-electrically.

I once kept milk fresh for 2 days in the trunk of a car in 90 degree heat by lining a box with newspaper. Which reminds me that books make terrific insulation.

[Operator]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

Refrigeration.

An already perfected technology exists using ammonia
as the refrigerant. Any heat source; kerosene, propane,
natural gas, biogas, heats the ammonia and starts
the cooling cycle. There are no moving parts!

Thanks Baggywrinkle,

This is something I needed badly. I am in the tropics, we have a lot of heat here and need refrigeration.
Of course my heat source will be solar power !

I read the article but still have to figure out how the 'separator' works. But that's the fun part ...

We have tons of heat (until a polar shift ) here to produce tons of cold air ... I like that, knew it was possible
but did not practically create that yet.

Cheers

[sakuna]

Bioluminescence is probably the most efficient naturally occurring light source.
Think fireflies. In NZ we have an insect commonly known as a glow worm (arachnicampa luminosa) or cannabilistic maggots with shiny **** which is more accurate as they are larvae & not actually a worm. They predominately live in dark, damp, & drafty areas specifically caves, where they spin vertical silk feeding lines to catch their prey, utilising their glowing excrement as a lure.
My point is, that in areas heavily populated with glow worms, they collectively emit enough light that, you could almost read a book. Perhaps you could breed a colony then populate your living areas as required.
Impractical i know, but i thought it worth mentioning.
A couple of free energy hydraulic devices for consideration/research are the self acting water ram & the vortex generator, both can provide mechanical advantage in numerous applications and/or generate electricity.
Best regards

[Carol]

I love this thread!

[Peace of Mine]

Where I grew up, a cold mountain spring was utilized as refrigeration, even after electric refrigerators came into common use. My Grandpa built an 8 X 10 block and brick building on top of the spring, which was captured in a trough of concrete that could hold gallons of fresh-made apple cider, or milk when the cows all came in at once, or handle 6 huge watermelons for a family gathering.

There were two parts to our spring. The main spring was damned up in a concrete catchment, maybe a six by six foot area. A concrete walkway was paved to connect to the main building described in the first paragraph.

This was kept super-clean, with a screened-in window and sturdy door. It maintained a constant temperature year-round that would have served as adequate refrigeration.

This temperate rainforest area, with 80+ inches of annual rainfall, is now experiencing a severe drought and record summer temperatures. Snowfall, when I was growing up, was steady and dependable. That has changed drastically over the last few years. I wonder if the Springhouse would be as dependable in future years.

BTW, lots of these ideas are captured in the FOXFIRE series, a journalism class started in my school, that is internationally known. My sister served as the first student editor, and my grandparents are featured in many of the earlier issues. www.foxfire.org Very in-depth articles teach homesteading skills which were passed from one generation to the next.

[doodah]

Thanks, Peace of mIne. I live in what used to be reliable farming country, but rain has definitely become a problem. Last year we had two solid months with no rain, in July and August, in the middle of the growing season. Many farmers couldn't grow enough hay to get their animals through the winter. So, yes, it's getting more difficult in many areas.

I was thinking about my wind-up kitchen timer and my wind-up clock. These work very nicely non-electrically. Is a hand-pump flashlight something similar? Anybody know how hand-pump flashlights work?

Thanks for the Foxfire reference. Many hours of research ahead!

Putting forth positive intent to create a completely dull and boring October.

[granny]

Originally Posted by doodah

Thanks, Peace of mIne. I live in what used to be reliable farming country, but rain has definitely become a problem. Last year we had two solid months with no rain, in July and August, in the middle of the growing season. Many farmers couldn't grow enough hay to get their animals through the winter. So, yes, it's getting more difficult in many areas.

I was thinking about my wind-up kitchen timer and my wind-up clock. These work very nicely non-electrically. Is a hand-pump flashlight something similar? Anybody know how hand-pump flashlights work?

Thanks for the Foxfire reference. Many hours of research ahead!

Putting forth positive intent to create a completely dull and boring October.

Terrific thread

Instead of "wind up" for lights and radios ... think "crank"
I don't have crank lights, but do have shake lights ... some better than others, but the crank radio is great.

... am doing same as above

Granny

[Shechaiyah]

As in camping, I'll go with kerosene or propane lamps, til we can figure out something else.

Also, better have lots of journal notebooks handy and practice up on your penmanship.

I'm so old that, when I was learning to write cursive in school, we had to use ink-pens and dip them in ink wells. Probably not a bad idea, to have some Luddite technology on hand.


: ) Shech--

[MMe M]

You are much appreciated!~ I find myself contemplating methane every day lately. We all produce it and it sits there in the ground due to idiot regulations by local governments. People with dairy farms are using it to heat, power and also supply their neighbors with energy. Its the best alternative presentlyy I think. As long as were alive, we will be making it and so why not put it to use?


To the guy with the hydrogen idea, Its excellant but you must remember that hydrogen causes metals to harden, therefore making them brittle. I am not a molecular scientist but you can look it up. Its on this level that it hapens. The computer will adjust after so many miles I am told. Something like the change between ethanol and petrol.

[doodah]

Thank you, Baggy, once again. I understand the principle. But are those bladders made of plastic? Rubber? What?

Thanks.

[doodah]

Originally Posted by doodah

Thank you, Baggy, once again. I understand the principle. But are those bladders made of plastic? Rubber? What?

Thanks.

In answer to this question, I scroogled "methane bladders". Here's what I found:

Suitable materials for the bladder include reinforced gco-membrane materials such as XR-5® 8130 or XR-3® 8228 reinforced geo-membranes available from the Seaman Corporation, Wooster, Ohio, and reinforced geo-membranes from Cooley

geosynthetics

Geomembranes are made of various materials. Some common geomembrane materials are Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC), High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE), Low-Density Polyethylene (LDPE) and Polypropylene (PP).


"Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC). General Info. Center for Health, Environment and Justice: PVC: The Poison Plastic -- The Campaign for Safe, Healthy Consumer ..." www.ejnet.org/plastics/pvc/

High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE) -- "High-Density Polyethylene(HDPE) or PolyEthylene High-Density (PEHD) is a polyethylene thermoplastic made from petroleum. It takes 1.75 kilograms of ..." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDPE

Polypropylene (PP) -- polypropylene-pp petrochemicals, http://www.commodityonline.com/commo...opylene-pp.php

All these products are made from petroleum, which, according to my hundreds of hours of research, is probably the most poisonous substance on this planet -- not something I really want to take with me into the future. This gives pause for thought.

[whitecrow]

Consider building a Minto wheel. You can Google this...here's a site with good info: http://www.eagle-research.com/fenerg...to/minto1.html

This would make a great community project. Minto wheels turn slowly but develop incredible torque which is multiplied as the diameter of the wheel is increased. There is at least one YouTube video of a Minto wheel in operation, however this is a sloppily-built wheel that barely functions.

The secret, it appears to me, is to determine the optimum number of flasks at the circumference, and to pay close attention to the bearings and transmission that will convert torque to power. Not a perpetual motion machine, but close.

[333mark333]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

Our two largest challenges are pumping water and
refrigeration.

My preferred solutions would be a water tower, a steam
engine, and biogas.

I'm aware of several dairy operations that generate huge
amounts of biogas and convert it into electricity. There
is a Hutterite community in Northern Alberta that sells
excess biogas generated electricity to the local grid.

As far as lighting goes. We've started using strontium based phospholuminescent tape

Check this out.



http://www.identi-tape.com/phosphor.htm
These techniques can work. No pie in the sky here, and
steam is tried and true; a perfected technology.

That tape looks interesting- may use that up here. Thanks

Originally Posted by 333mark333

That tape looks interesting- may use that up here. Thanks

You can also find it as paint. This is a technology waiting
to happen. Entire floors or walls of this stuff. They are
making fireman's plastic hardhats with it to make them
easy to see in a smoke filled room.

In the first five minutes it is almost bright enough to read
by. Then it lingers visibly to the night adjusted eye for
12 hours or more.

We live in the country. Pitch black at night. We put
three small tabs of tape on each of our stairs. At night
it lights up like an airport runway. Fumbling in the dark
for the light switch? Never again.

Ever lost your car in a dark parking lot?

[Operator]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

You can also find it as paint. This is a technology waiting
to happen. Entire floors or walls of this stuff. They are
making fireman's plastic hardhats with it to make them
easy to see in a smoke filled room.

In the first five minutes it is almost bright enough to read
by. Then it lingers visibly to the night adjusted eye for
12 hours or more.

We live in the country. Pitch black at night. We put
three small tabs of tape on each of our stairs. At night
it lights up like an airport runway. Fumbling in the dark
for the light switch? Never again.

Hi,

It sounds very powerful but I was wondering if strontium isn't a radio active isotope ? So I am not sure if it's completely
safe for your health and the environment. Is there any info coming along with this product ?

I was also wondering how the steam generator was powered ... the clip does not show what it used as fuel.

A steam powered generator may work very well in my case. There's lots of bio mass waste to burn in close vicinity.
And I have created a parabolic mirror once to boil water using solar power. Very effective ... you don't even need that much sunlight.

Cheers

[Operator]

B.t.w. Baggywrinkle,

Were you talking about a water tower before ?

I may have an idea for you:
if you vaporize water using whatever fuel you have available or the solar power I just mentioned in my previous post
it will rise upward by itself. Then you condense it on a higher level ....
That may work to lift water a couple of feet up

Cheers

[sunnyrap]

most photoluminesent problems have to store light from another lightsource--is this tape that type or is it truly self-luminating, like the chemical filled straws that are sold at fairs? (and they fizzle out after a while...)

Originally Posted by sunnyrap

most photoluminesent problems have to store light from another lightsource--is this tape that type or is it truly self-luminating, like the chemical filled straws that are sold at fairs? (and they fizzle out after a while...)

Strontium and europium, along with zinc oxide compounds all store ambient light, then release it over time. The advantage of the first two is the amount of light released and duration of release blow the older zinc compounds out of the water.

Everyone has had a watch with luminous hands. It was
great for perhaps and hour or two, then barely visible.
The new compounds are BRIGHT all night long
to the night adjusted eye.

Strontium and europium are not self luminating and are not radioactive like
tritium or radium.