Camelot interview with Dane Tops

[sunnyrap]

Originally Posted by jonathan Burke

I have been in the group since the early fifties, that is last life time and this life time. The technology works unbelievably well if applied standardly. I am a trained auditor and would be happy to answer any questions.

I was Declared 3 years ago for telling my friends and family about what is going on. There is a lot more than was covered in the interview as to what has happened and why. It's a huge topic to cover because it works and that's the reason for the attacks on it.

There are a tremendous amount of pieces to the puzzle in Scientology that Camelot is assembling into a full picture. It doesn't have them all but with the use of some of the techniques, many, many more can be found. This was even suggested by Hubbard in the sixties using the e-meter to do "archaeological" research into precise Earth and Pre-Earth history.

If you need any info, just let me know, happy to help.

J.B.

Jonathan-I have some experience with the C of S when I lived in L.A.--I took acting classes in the basement of the Hollywood C of S building from someone fairly high in the church. At the time, I was a recent 'est' graduate and follower of Werner Earhart (not knowing then that he'd gotten a lot of his material from LRH), and esties tended to shy away from Scientologists back then. Anyway, the recent interview restimulated my interest in the technology many of my CofS friends were enthused about and I tried to find a book on Dianetics. I wanted to locate a 1950 version to make sure I had one that hadn't been 'altered' as the interview suggested. I found plenty of books, but most were 1990 and later.

I ended up buying Dyanetics that was printed in 1988 and it doesn't mention being 'updated'. It sounded like all the undesirable changes came in in the early 1990's? Is this correct?

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by sunnyrap

Jonathan-I have some experience with the C of S when I lived in L.A.--I took acting classes in the basement of the Hollywood C of S building from someone fairly high in the church. At the time, I was a recent 'est' graduate and follower of Werner Earhart (not knowing then that he'd gotten a lot of his material from LRH), and esties tended to shy away from Scientologists back then. Anyway, the recent interview restimulated my interest in the technology many of my CofS friends were enthused about and I tried to find a book on Dianetics. I wanted to locate a 1950 version to make sure I had one that hadn't been 'altered' as the interview suggested. I found plenty of books, but most were 1990 and later.

I ended up buying Dyanetics that was printed in 1988 and it doesn't mention being 'updated'. It sounded like all the undesirable changes came in in the early 1990's? Is this correct?

The worst "alteration" to Dianetics was the padding that the publisher demanded, thus the lengthiness and repetition of the book. I prefer "Dianetics Today" or "Dianetics 55". There is also a short Dianetics picture book and a Dianetics DvD.

My first read was quite revealing because while I was reading about the "reactive mind" I was at the same time seeing it all around me

[Gnosis5]

My appreciation for auditors, a Ditty:

You got the key to my polarity
You return me to my singularity

Implanters are left holding the bag
- follow the bouncing ball -
Hey, fellas, anyone for a game of tag!

Once thought, twice thought, thrice thought
- "What's that - that- that ?" -
Blackness backdrops a glimpse of truth long fought.

You got the key to my polarity
You return me to my singularity

[Gnosis5]

New Scientology Materials link, in English and German. Has a good "Search" function too.
http://www.stss.nl/

I have the original small books and am going through them again. Best stuff is pre to early 50's.

[Gnosis5]

What I particularlly appreciate about scientology materials is that all theory is tied in with actual processes one can run to a good result, and there is a whole buffet of processes and once one understands the theory behind the processes it is a matter of deciding which processes to attend to.

There is a bulk of actual "Doingnesses" balanced with the teaching.

Don't like walking to that wall process? No problem, here are five others....

It is really written for someone who wishes to be his own spiritual guru and/or be a spiritual coach for others.

EFT, PEAT, and Transcendental Meditation are modern-day supplements. The process that I work with, R3X, is a ramped up version of Dianetics.

cheers!
Gnosis

[Phtha]

Thanks for these links and information Gnosis.
I've been watching the older interviews and clearing seminars with LRH. I have also read a few of the documents, I will be reading more for sure.
What struck me about the LRH method (I can't speak for the modern day official scientology) was that it is Alchemy 100%! That is what Ron was teaching without a doubt. Everything is the same, including the steps, and the goals... The only difference was that Ron updated the terms big time so that they made much more sense to the average person, as alchemy, especially during the middle ages, was extremely hard if not impossible to make sense of without certain keys. I was actually quite struck by the similarity between the two!

I also believe that this may have had something to do with Rons eventual downfall. As he underestimated his enemies. I'm not sure that Ron himself knew of the similarity, and that the people he was really working against knew well his science already, from a slightly different perspective. Anyways thats just a thought I had, maybe Ron did know and indeed maybe alchemy is where he originally got his knowledge from.

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

What I particularlly appreciate about scientology materials is that all theory is tied in with actual processes one can run to a good result, and there is a whole buffet of processes and once one understands the theory behind the processes it is a matter of deciding which processes to attend to

cheers!
Gnosis

[Gnosis5]

Very interesting and I wonder what off-planet society introduced it here? On this planet, what was the original source of alchemy? I'm asking because I am aware that Ron Hubbard did dig into the Vedas which I understand is the most ancient extant spiritual manual. I thought alchemists worked with actual elements?

Some people have said that it is re-worded magic.

I was with Hubbard last lifetime when he and Parsons (in Pasadena) were calling up the demi-god Pan. Aleister was concerned that these two newbies might really mess themselves up. Did they?

[Phtha]

Know one knows for sure the original source of Alchemy, its beginnings are shrouded in mystery. We do know that it dates back to at least Ancient Egyptian times from their glyphs alone, but before that it is not known.. at least in the 'public' spectrum.

Alchemists did work with elements, as they believe strongly in the above/below so that if they understood nature it will help them understand themselves. Alchemy was a science of the mind and spirit more then anything though, just like Scientology.

Here is a video that gives a quick over view of the alchemical process..
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...69191085492326
The steps start at roughly the 11:30 mark if you wanted to zoom ahead, its quite interesting. This is of course just a quick overview the study it self is much much more in depth.

[Gnosis5]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2498145/L-Kin-Vol3-The-Pied-Pipers-Of-Heaven-Who-Calls-The-Tune

A good supplemental history, the Pied Pipers of Heaven.

[Gordopangrawit]

Sunnyrap: I read the interview and thought that I'd like to have a jolly good look into that....Found the book, ordered it and then read the wikipaedia entry...

Anyway the Tops interview implied that the book has been constantly upadated, and that the earlier pressings were slightly more intact. A local 2nd hand bookseller website led me to biblio.com where they had a fine selection of earlier editions. Ultimately it was an issue of choose how much I wanted to pay and what condition I wanted it to be in. There were early seventies ones at a few dollars. I got a nineteen-fifty pressing at a modest price. Green hardcover, a few stains and a free antique catalogue card.

Good luck
Gg

[Connecting with Sauce]

The early 50's book I'd bought unfortunately was damaged in the post so the seller LUCKILY sent me a 2007 copy of the 'same' which I'd bought for £38!!!! I've just sent it back and plan to get a full refund...

I'll check out biblio.com though, thanks.

[Gnosis5]

I have the original "Dianetics, The Original Thesis", copyright 1951, and
"Dianetics 55!", copyright 1955. I prefer them to the 1950 "Dianetics".

However, the DvD that shows a play-acted Dianetics session.

However, I also just recorded from SKYPE using "Pamela" a live session. Barring any unforeseen technical barriers, I should be able to send it to anyone who requests it.

Seeing a live session might help one to better understand what they are reading about Dianetics.

Just let me know if you wish me to send it to you.

cheers!
Gnosis

[oedilroed]

Hello Gnosis; Do you know if the "original Dianetics (1951) " Is available on the net as a PDF ?

If possible, can you send me that live session you mention ?
greetings, Oedilroed

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

I have the original "Dianetics, The Original Thesis", copyright 1951, and
"Dianetics 55!", copyright 1955. I prefer them to the 1950 "Dianetics".

However, the DvD that shows a play-acted Dianetics session.

However, I also just recorded from SKYPE using "Pamela" a live session. Barring any unforeseen technical barriers, I should be able to send it to anyone who requests it.

Seeing a live session might help one to better understand what they are reading about Dianetics.

Just let me know if you wish me to send it to you.

cheers!
Gnosis

[Gnosis5]

Please check your private messages, thank you.

[Gnosis5]

P.A.B. No. 38

PROFESSIONAL AUDITOR’S BULLETIN

From L. RON HUBBARD

Via Hubbard Communications Office

163 Holland Park Avenue, London W.11

__________________________________________________ ___________________

29 October 1954

THE AUDITOR’S CODE 1954

A Basic Course in Scientology—Part 5

1. DO NOT EVALUATE FOR THE PRECLEAR.

The main difficulty of the preclear is other-knowingness. An auditor auditing a preclear has before him someone whose last stronghold of owned knowingness is his engram bank and various mental phenomena. As much as possible, the preclear should be permitted to discover the answers to this phenomena through the process of auditing. What the auditor is doing is steering. If he tells consistently what is to be found or what will happen, the preclear will not get well. The steering, of course, is a covert but highly acceptable method of inviting the preclear to find out. Giving a process’s commands is an invitation to this discovery.

The auditor is working from a body of knowledge as to how all minds and spirits function. The preclear could even be trained in this high generality without harm, and certainly can be audited in such a high generality, but its particularities and peculiarities, the phenomena which occur, must not be “telegraphed” to the preclear before they occur, and when something has occurred to the preclear the auditor should not then come up with its explanation. This was the entire failure of psychoanalysis. The preclear would say something, and the analyst would then tell the preclear what it meant.

The auditor should confine himself to giving the proper auditing commands and engaging in enough “dunnage” (extra and relatively meaningless talk) to maintain a two-way communication line.