SNOW CIRCLES ...instead of CROP CIRCLES

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by 371

Who made this?


Names and details, please.... since you are in the LOOP.

The answer is people, the rest is up to you.

It doesn't work like that, you should have known that by now.
The arrogance of some people shees!

This is not what circlemakers do you know.
They might as well put their names near the formations.

It's art without the signature.
The rest is up for the people who admire them and see symbolism in them.

And IF we would say who made what are you gonna post the thousands of formations here and ask who, what and where? Think about it

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by chelmostef

Hasn't the wheat stopped growing when these circles are made?

Depends on the type of crop and the age.
edit: and the weather conditions (soz late night here)

[371]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

The answer is people, the rest is up to you.

Wrong, MOST- but not all.

This guy says he knows everyone who has made every cropcircle in the UK. Okay, names is a stretch. Details then.

My point is- this guy is talking out is a$$ and he knows it. Wants to feel important. ARMCHAIR EXPERT.

[truthseekers]

Originally Posted by 371

Who made this?


Or this?

Names and details, please.... since you are in the LOOP.

Right you know the score then seeing as your in the loop so much so you know what a silly question that is. What I will give you is yes I do know the two sets of teams that made those. The Pi one was created by an artist who doesnt do very much work per year. The 3d triangle was created by a artist who does a lot every year. Beyond that I am not giving you names and you know the reason why.

Or perhaps if you want to supply me with full details and sworn statement of your last criminal activity I might consider telling you in private more abou these circles, knowing that I could report you to the police in the same way you would probably love to report me to the police.

So how come you know that I am full of lies as fact. What magical information do you have which proves this. Apart from your opinion that humans cant make circles et al.

[371]

OK.





What do they mean? Since you know the artists.

[truthseekers]

Originally Posted by 371

Wrong, MOST- but not all.

This guy says he knows everyone who has made every cropcircle in the UK. Okay, names is a stretch. Details then.

My point is- this guy is talking out is a$$ and he knows it. Wants to feel important. ARMCHAIR EXPERT.

Your quite the little expert arent you and rude to boot. Armchair expert he is not. I have seen the circles he has created and he is active each year. I think the only armchair expert is probably you im afraid to say.

We are here to answer your questions but if you are going to insist on taking the high ground on this when as far as I am aware you havent been on any TV or Radio shows or featured in books or magazines on this subject then why should we bow down to you telling us "fact" in this abusive manner?

[371]

.

[371]

OK- know what?

I'll take everything back, I said... just explain this to me:



What do they MEAN, and what are they FOR?

And don't give me the 'artistic expression' line...

[THE eXchanger]

if someone will put 1's and, 2's etc., onto
the pictures

there are some of them, i can decode

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Nykki

....

Probably should be careful of what you disrespect next time.

Sorry to spoil your fun but this is NOT the place for this kind of conflict.

It is not the place for you to make insults either. I know I can't catch everyone who does it but I need as much help as I can get - not hindrance, and I dont want people fighting fire with fire here - it just makes things worse.

Yes people need to be polite. Just because some are not, that does not give you license to get the big guns out.

Please help by not furthering conflict.

A..

[Northern Boy]

Thanks for stepping in Anchor you seemed rather nice in some of your posts Nikki maybe I was wrong about you . There is such thing as providing a civil answer without resorting to the disrespect of forum members and if you have the answer to the crop circles all you had to do was post it and that would have been enough . No need to let your temper or your emotions get the better of you because of a discussion that you were not even involved in

[Northern Boy]

then I have nothing to lose it seems so I`ll stay to see if you can keep your short fuse in check

[Northern Boy]

thankies back too you and don`t be afraid to take a shot at it yourself

[Northern Boy]

Nik you just want to look like your in control here and think by telling me to move on that you may have some authority over me you don`t so understand that you jumped in on some one else`s post and posted stuff you then felt you needed to remove I don`t have to go any where now I`m prepared to leave it at that if you are but if you want to continue so will i the call is yours to make

[Northern Boy]

I feel the same way my Friend

[THE eXchanger]

The SNOW CIRCLE ...
http://www.rense.com/general88/snowc.htm


modifying this entry into a chart

[skysurfer]

BREAKING NEWS......

My spies tell me that there's a new huge 130 metre snow formation in Holland in the field right next to the one you've all been discussing above and photos have been taken

The snags to verification of anything paranormal in the first event in my view are that the pictures don't show the full formation so hoaxers could have stepped into the scene and made the circles with either boards or some kind of roller.

That would be possible because if you note there are no isolated circles - they are all linked therefore each can be accessed from the other.

And the missing snow might merely be impacted snow - think of walking on soft snow.....nobody wonders who has stolen the snow from the footprints!

So if these new circles are well documented this case could make or break the idea of an anomalous origin - and make or break Nancy Talbott and the psychic guy Robbert who is surrounded by a lot of controversy and stories of fakery.

But don't assume my scepticism above rules out weird events - they happen for sure. But snow is a very revealing canvas so with good detective work these particular circles could take the subject forward - or melt it away like snow.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by skysurfer

BREAKING NEWS......

My spies tell me that there's a new huge 130 metre snow formation in Holland in the field right next to the one you've all been discussing above and photos have been taken

The snags to verification of anything paranormal in the first event in my view are that the pictures don't show the full formation so hoaxers could have stepped into the scene and made the circles with either boards or some kind of roller.

That would be possible because if you note there are no isolated circles - they are all linked therefore each can be accessed from the other.

And the missing snow might merely be impacted snow - think of walking on soft snow.....nobody wonders who has stolen the snow from the footprints!

So if these new circles are well documented this case could make or break the idea of an anomalous origin - and make or break Nancy Talbott and the psychic guy Robbert who is surrounded by a lot of controversy and stories of fakery.

But don't assume my scepticism above rules out weird events - they happen for sure. But snow is a very revealing canvas so with good detective work these particular circles could take the subject forward - or melt it away like snow.

Thank you for posting this one. Yes the RVDB case has been debunked and proven fake from the beginning when he started taking pictures of the so called aliens which were paper cut out figures held in front of the camera.

http://www.grenswetenschap.nl/images...pperwapper.jpg

And the 'mud men' photo's proven to be fakery also.

http://www.ufologie.net/pics/crophoevenvdb05.jpg

Same goes for the ufo photo's he took which are also on the blt site.

http://www.bltresearch.com/robbert/ufophotos.php

All this on the same site where they present the so called 'evidence' of genuine formations. Makes you wonder about the credibility of this science/research isn't it.

[truthseekers]

Originally Posted by 371

OK- know what?

I'll take everything back, I said... just explain this to me:



What do they MEAN, and what are they FOR?

And don't give me the 'artistic expression' line...

The circles were started by Doug and Dave as a way to see if people would believe it was a Saucer had landed. It certainly did givethat impression to people. However it developed into a research effort which then went on to say that perhaps whirlwinds or plasma vortex had created the circles even Gaia theories. These days circlemakers are happy for people to believe what ever they want to believe but it is sad that the whole subject has been beset by researchers who are peddling books and theories to make some money when it is clear to those researchers people make circles. The interpretations those researchers put on circles are often nothing to do with the intention that was put in by the circlemakers.

What do the circles represent, well ask most circlemakers and they would probably tell you they create designs which reflect current news events or spiritual ideas that will excite the minds of the people who visit them. Not all circlemakers are spiritually minded but they will still draw upon a database of ideas that we all know and see as spiritual and adapt these ideas into easier to make circle designs. When I say easier, that doesnt mean easy to understand for you or the man in the streetbut to an accomplished artist and circlemaker easy for us to make.

Designs may be literal such as pyramids with all seeing eyes. When a design is this literal its hard not to get the message of what it means. However what is sometimes lost is whether these images are supposed to promote or denegrate the idea that is put forward in the design. Such as in the case of the pyramid it was done by someone who hates freemasonry and yet they did this design, which is then ambigious to the meaning. Its almost as if they should have drawn a line through the pyramid as its just giving credit to freemasons otherwise. Subtleties like issues over designs like this are something which few people ever get to hear about.

Most of the designs are just inspired ideas which come to the circlemakers when they are playing around on paper with things that work well or seem visually different. Where the inspiration comes from for what to do and the honing process which allows a design to take off if open to question. However we know as circlemakers that some design ideas have been put down only to see others out on the same night doing a similar design even though those circlemakers had not shared their info. Tis came to a spectacular head when two teams ended up working on similarish design in the same field on the same night and they were working close to each other without knowing. I have had inspiration to do designs which other people have been meditating on. This elads me to think the designs are sometimes "asked for" but is that by us person to person telepathy or is it that we are all connecting into a higher mind or group conciousness for all humanity or are we being infuenced from somewhere else or something else... perhaps down from aliens even. Nobody can be sure at this stage.

All we know is that every year the idea of creating deisgns for other people to enthuse over excites the circlemakers. The thought of getting some unusual events or synchronicities makes the prospect even more appealing.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by 371

OK.

That's it?

---

Found this one the Snobama formation:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...mageID=2975571

[skysurfer]

I am not altogether satisfied he has been successfully debunked - just because somebody can photograph cut outs, doesn't mean they have done.

You've got to catch a faker at it to really prove your case.

And I know the existence of images like the ones claimed to be paranormally obtained is evidence for some of fakery but in the history of psychic research there are cases where psychic photos have matched existing ones, with no evidence of trickery.

In any case I have heard that there are subtle differences between existing photos and Robbert's claimed psychic ones.

This whole case very much needs Nancy Talbott and RVDB tackling all these fake allegations and refuting them strongly, if they can.

On the other hand Nancy has been a serious researcher for many years and I would be very surprised if she would have stayed with this case so long if there wasn't something substantial and paranormal, persuading her to stay with it.

PS I can't find the buttons to press to open the quick reply function. What's the difference between QR and this one?

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by 371

OK- know what?

I'll take everything back, I said... just explain this to me:



What do they MEAN, and what are they FOR?

And don't give me the 'artistic expression' line...

If you would have taken the time to watch some of Matt's videos you would have those answers.

Modern crop circle making spawned from a couple of guys trying to 'recreate' or 'simulate' what used to be referred to as saucer nests or landing impressions. Being artists they introduced various other elements to the design. Being illegal the works were anonymous. Also taking credit for the art was thought to diminish the mystery and interest. Copy cats arose and produced their own circles. The mythos that the crop circles are in some way produced in some paranormal fashion rather than by human beings is perpetuated by the crop circle 'community' itself for various reasons.

While some may be designed to convey some sort of message a great deal of them are just interesting patterns and like a Rorschach blot can be interpreted in various ways.

The really sad thing here is this. Here you have at least two real crop circle makers (I'm not one of them) posting to this thread trying to give the honest to goodness truth about the phenomena. Multiple videos have been provided for review that explain all aspects of the phenomena (every question asked so far are answered in them), even how to detect that they are man made and the methods used to construct them. Yet ...they are not believed. It really is a sad/funny thing to watch happening.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by skysurfer

You've got to catch a faker at it to really prove your case.

He has been catched as a faker on dutch tv.
But sadly enough the show was kinda popular they kept inviting him.
Mainstream media, what else did you expect.

Look it up it's all over the internet.

http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-01/010606netherlands.html

I suppose you don't understand dutch so get a translator and see for yourself.

http://www.skepsis.nl/wonderman.html
http://www.skepsis.nl/robbertvandenbroeke.html

18 threads full of evidence he is playing people's minds.
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/799978/1/25

As long as he doesn't sell video's etc people can't drag him into court for confession.

In fact there was a small article in the dutch newspapers where a farmer catched him and his father making circles at night but again the article never made the internet.
I got this from Nancy Talbott herself when i worked as webdesigner for the BLT site years ago.

A few years back the same occured with the so called psychic medium Jomanda.
Eventually she had to come out with the truth that she misled people in order to sell books.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

He has been catched as a faker on dutch tv.
But sadly enough the show was kinda popular they kept inviting him.
Mainstream media, what else did you expect.
...

It isn't just the mainstream media that are not doing a good job at this. The UFO/Paranormal lecture/talk show circuit community isn't doing a good job of policing itself or its information either. Proven frauds and hoaxers often disappear for a short period of time just to resurface, their past indiscretions forgotten or overlooked.

People who do provide critical analysis of alleged witnesses or whistle-blowers are often slandered and ridiculed ... no matter what evidence they provide. One extremely good example of this is the site ufowatchdog.com whose author has abandoned the field due to the amount of push back he received. Some of the most outrageous hoaxes are documented and investigated in depth there.

I personally have become terribly discouraged by the proliferation of known frauds, hoaxers, and scam-artists in the field. Were it not for the conviction that I have in the reality of the UFO phenomena I would have given up on this business a long time ago.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

It isn't just the mainstream media that are not doing a good job at this. The UFO/Paranormal lecture/talk show circuit community isn't doing a good job of policing itself or its information either. Proven frauds and hoaxers often disappear for a short period of time just to resurface, their past indiscretions forgotten or overlooked.

People who do provide critical analysis of alleged witnesses or whistle-blowers are often slandered and ridiculed ... no matter what evidence they provide. One extremely good example of this is the site ufowatchdog.com whose author has abandoned the field due to the amount of push back he received. Some of the most outrageous hoaxes are documented and investigated in depth there.

I personally have become terribly discouraged by the proliferation of known frauds, hoaxers, and scam-artists in the field. Were it not for the conviction that I have in the reality of the UFO phenomena I would have given up on this business a long time ago.

Thx for your input Trainedobserver. What kept you interested in the UFO phenomena? Did you manage to hold on to some of the 'genuine' cases or some of your own experience in this field?