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11-12-2008, 03:02 PM
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#1 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 179
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
He stood up to the point that he decided he did not like the outcome of his actions. To call him a hero is a disgrace to all the serious researchers. Anointing Gary as a hero has set back the credibility of serious researchers by years. ================================================== ======== How many here pay their taxes? Nobody likes to pay them, one might say that we fund the PtB. So should we just stop paying are taxes because it is "justified" Or should we work within the law to reduce the burden on us? Which way is more credible do you think? |
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11-12-2008, 08:27 PM
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#2 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 63
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
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11-12-2008, 08:29 PM
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#3 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Spiritual eXplorer-Canada
Posts: 4,915
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
i wonder if Bill & Kerry are still helping him out ???
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11-12-2008, 08:34 PM
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#4 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: U.K.
Posts: 3,380
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
As far as i know they're trying but Gary and his lawyer have opted for the asperger's option-i think Kerry and Bill wanted him to try the approach of the essence of discovering hidden info.and hitting on a raw nerve with the american govt.approach-i'm sure they will provide an update soon on this.
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11-13-2008, 02:59 AM
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#5 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 179
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
It is embarrassing |
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11-12-2008, 08:35 PM
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#6 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 63
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
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11-12-2008, 09:38 PM
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#7 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: U.K.
Posts: 3,380
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Ross hemsworth on 'now that's weird':
There is finally some LIGHT at the end of the tunnel for Gary... I have just heard back from my own local MP who says that many "front bench Conservatives" are outraged by the current UK/US extradition treaty and are calling for a debate in the house to have this one sided document changed! There seems to be a growing tide of MP's who feel that it does not protect UK citizens - and about bloody time too! We have been saying that for ages! Let's hope finally, Parliament gets its act together and stops the extradition of Gary McKinnon. Ross http://www.nowthatsweird.co.uk/news.php?readmore=38 |
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11-13-2008, 03:03 AM
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#8 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 80
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
Nancy |
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11-13-2008, 02:57 AM
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#9 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 179
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
Keep trying |
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11-12-2008, 02:53 PM
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#10 | |||||
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 179
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
Quote:
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The people have no right to information. Show me where it says we do please? Quote:
Again, there is no right to know National security issues. You are entitled to disagree. Quote:
You are part of the reason why the ufo community is not taken seriously. You and your kind are damaging serious efforts for disclosure. Most of the ufo cover up whistle blower testimonies are pure disinfo. They contradict each other for God's sake. Yes, the phenomena is real. Yes, there is a cover up. Beyond that, there is no proof to what is actually being covered up. But going back to GM....he and his supporters has misrepresented that facts of his case. That's lying. So if he lies about this, what else is he lying about? Last edited by murnut; 11-12-2008 at 02:56 PM. |
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11-12-2008, 04:42 AM
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#11 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 155
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Murnut, surely you are not trying to imply that computer hacking is "evil"?
You couldn't possibly be putting it on the same level as torture or genocide or any other number of "evil" acts. Forgive my stupidity if I have misunderstood you.... Quote:
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11-12-2008, 02:23 PM
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#12 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 179
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
My fault for not being clear. The ends do not justify the means. We lose our moral authority when we rationalize what we do, in response to what we perceive has been done to us. Hacking may or may not be "evil"...but from what I have read from some of Gary's supporters, escalation of crimes in the name of disclosure, is something that is being considered as "justified" Do you understand my concern? |
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09-09-2008, 04:04 AM
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#13 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 179
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
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09-09-2008, 01:53 PM
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#14 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire. UK
Posts: 42
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
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09-09-2008, 09:12 PM
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#15 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 25
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
The fact remains is the US has great sway over the internal affairs of the UK. In Gary McKinnons original trial here in the UK, US government representatives failed to offer any evidence that he had com mitted any crime and the judge rightly threw out the case. Now he finds himself being extradited with calls from publicity seeking politicians in the US calling for Gary to be fried.
Like it or not this seems to us little englanders as barbaric 
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09-09-2008, 09:16 PM
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#16 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 179
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
Gary has been charged with a crime. He has admitted he hacked the computers But the evidence has not yet been presented. Gary was offered 6 mos in US prison and the balance to be serve in the UK. ============================================= 10. With those few introductory paragraphs it is necessary to turn in a little detail to the facts of the case. The appellant’s alleged criminality 11. Using his home computer the appellant, through the internet, identified US Government network computers with an open Microsoft Windows connection and from those extracted the identities of certain administrative accounts and associated passwords. Having gained access to those accounts he installed unauthorised remote access and administrative software called “remotely anywhere” that enabled him to access and alter data upon the American computers at any time and without detection by virtue of the programme masquerading as a Windows operating system. Once “remotely anywhere” was installed, he then installed software facilitating both further compromises to the computers and also the concealment of his own activities. Using this software he was able to scan over 73,000 US Government computers for other computers and networks susceptible to similar compromise. He was thus able to lever himself from network to network and into a number of significant Government computers in different parts of the USA. 12. The 97 computers the appellant accessed were: 53 army computers, including computers based in Virginia and Washington that control the army’s military district of Washington network and are used in furtherance of national defence and security; 26 navy computers, including US Naval Weapons Station Earle, New Jersey, which was responsible for replenishing munitions and supplies for the deployed Atlantic fleet; 16 NASA computers; one Department of Defense computer; and one US Air Force computer. 13. Having gained access to these computers the appellant deleted data from them including critical operating system files from nine computers, the deletion of which shut down the entire US Army’s Military District of Washington network of over 2000 computers for 24 hours, significantly disrupting Governmental functions; 2,455 user accounts on a US Army computer that controlled access to an Army computer network, causing these computers to reboot and become inoperable; and logs from computers at US Naval Weapons Station Earle, one of which was used for monitoring the identity, location, physical condition, staffing and battle readiness of Navy ships, deletion of these files rendering the Base’s entire network of over 300 computers inoperable at a critical time immediately following 11 September 2001 and thereafter leaving the network vulnerable to other intruders. 14. The appellant also copied data and files onto his own computers, including operating system files containing account names and encrypted passwords from 22 computers comprising: 189 files from US Army computers, 35 files from US Navy computers (including some 950 passwords from server computers at Naval Weapons Station Earle); and six files from NASA computers. 15. The appellant’s conduct was alleged to be intentional and calculated to influence the US Government by intimidation and coercion. It damaged computers by impairing their integrity, availability and operation of programmes, systems, information and data, rendering them unreliable. The cost of repair was alleged to total over $700,000. 16. Analysis of the appellant’s home computer confirmed these allegations. During his interviews under caution, moreover, he admitted responsibility (although not that he had actually caused damage). He stated that his targets were high level US Army, Navy and Air Force computers and that his ultimate goal was to gain access to the US military classified information network. He admitted leaving a note on one army computer reading: “US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days . . . It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .” The plea-bargaining process (including discussion of repatriation) 17. In August 2002 the appellant instructed Ms Karen Todner, senior partner of Kaim Todner, to act as his solicitor. In November 2002 Ms Todner learned that an American prosecutor, Scott Stein, had applied for a formal indictment against the appellant and telephoned him to register her interest. There followed a number of communications during which Mr Stein indicated how much better a deal would be available to the appellant if he went voluntarily to the United States and pleaded guilty than if he contested extradition and denied the charges. Some of these communications were by telephone, some in writing, others at meetings with Mr Ed Gibson, the FBI legal attaché at the American Embassy in London. It is sufficient to set out the substance of what was said at the final such meeting on 14 April 2003, attended by Ms Todner and Mr Edmund Lawson QC for the appellant, and by Mr Stein, his superior Mr Hanly, and Mr Gibson as representatives of the US Government. I take this from a recent witness statement made by Mr Lawson dated 6 June 2008. (A broadly similar account taken from statements made by Ms Todner is set out in the Divisional Court’s judgment which also contains a detailed account of the earlier communications.) 18. Mr Stein confirmed that he was authorised to offer the appellant a deal in return for not contesting extradition and for agreeing to plead guilty to two of the counts laid against him of “fraud and related activity in connection with computers". On this basis it was likely that a sentence of 3-4 years (more precisely 37-46 months), probably at the shorter end of that bracket, would be passed and that after serving 6-12 months in the US, the appellant would be repatriated to complete his sentence in the UK. In this event his release date would be determined by reference to the UK’s remission rules namely, in the case of a sentence not exceeding four years, release at the discretion of the parole board after serving half the nominal sentence, release as of right at the two-thirds point. On that basis, he might serve a total of only some eighteen months to two years. 19. The predicted sentence of 3-4 years was based upon sentencing guidelines themselves based upon a points system. The prosecution would recommend to the court a particular points level which the court would be likely to accept. Similarly the prosecutor would recommend to the section of the US Department of Justice responsible for administering the Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons that the appellant be transferred and this recommendation too was in practice likely to be accepted. 20. If, however, the appellant chose not to cooperate, and were then extradited and convicted, he might expect to receive a sentence of 8-10 years, possibly longer, and would not be repatriated to the UK for any part of it. He would accordingly serve the whole sentence in a US prison (possibly high security) with at best some 15% remission. 21. Mr Lawson clearly recalls the prospect of repatriation being stated to depend upon the appellant’s application for transfer being supported by the prosecution. If the support were withheld as it would be if extradition was contested, there was said to be no prospect of repatriation, a refusal by the Department of Justice being unreviewable in the US courts. 22. The proposed “deal” was conditional upon the appellant entering into a form of Plea Agreement, a lengthy document including the provision in para 4 that: “the defendant is aware that the defendant’s sentence will be imposed in accordance with the Sentencing Guidelines and Policy Statements. The defendant is aware that the Court has jurisdiction and authority to impose any sentence within the statutory maximum set for the offense (s) to which the defendant pleads guilty. The defendant is aware that the Court has not yet determined a sentence. The defendant is also aware that any estimate of the probable sentencing range under the sentencing guidelines that the defendant may have received from the defendant’s counsel, the United States, or the probation office, is a prediction, not a promise, and is not binding on the United States, the probation office, or the Court. The United States makes no promise or representation concerning what sentence the defendant will receive, and the defendant cannot withdraw a guilty plea based upon the actual sentence.” The Plea Agreement included a further term in para 12 that the US Attorney’s Offices respectively for the Eastern District of Virginia and the District of New Jersey “will not oppose the defendant’s application to transfer any sentence imposed by the Court made pursuant to the Council of Europe Convention". 23. Subsequent to the Divisional Court’s judgment but prior to Mr Lawson’s statement an affidavit was sworn by Robert Wiechering on behalf of the US Attorney’s Offices for both districts stating that they “will not oppose any prisoner transfer application that may be made by Gary McKinnon (if extradited and convicted) based, in whole or in part, on his refusal to waive or consent to extradition from the United Kingdom.” 24. Following the meeting of 14 April 2003 Ms Todner took advice from an American defense lawyer and, subsequently, the appellant declined the “deal". http://www.publications.parliament.u...0/mckinn-1.htm Now whose fault is this? Gary refused the deal. At what point is Gary responsible for his own actions? |
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09-09-2008, 09:36 PM
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#17 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 182
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
Is it possible that Gary is holding out in the hopes that eventually more will be revealed about what is on those computers and what the controllers are upto. |
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09-09-2008, 09:52 PM
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#18 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 179
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
If that was true...he would have come to the States...instead of releasing false info about the charges he faces....and trying to avoid the extradition be any means.
He will not go to Guantanamo. He does not face the death penalty. He will be tried in open court. He will not be tried by a Military Tribunal. He is not being treated as an Enemy combatant. He passed on 3 years...6mos in the US...the balance in the UK..probably a total of 18mos. Do any of you out there wish that Gary fights these charges and face the maximum penalty...of 60-70 years? Or should he plead...he has admitted guilt at this point. He should cut the best deal he can. Many Ufo people seem to think he should fight. This is not in Gary's best interest. Too many have given Gary terrible advice. Had he taken the original deal...he would have been out a year ago. If Gary really had seen anything, we would have never even heard of him. Gary is being treated no differently than any other hacker....who got caught. If anyone says otherwise, I would like to see some proof. |
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09-10-2008, 11:59 AM
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#19 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 56
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
You'd have thought they'd at least offer him a job, seeing as he exposed the poor state of security and the ease in which he accessed information. It would've been much easier to keep whatever he saw quiet. I think the indifference the UK and EU have shown regarding his extradition is deplorable and perhaps serves as an indicator as to what the one world state style of justice will be like. (maybe that should be, is like? ...hmm)
 It will be interesting to see what happens when this goes to trial, if it ever gets that far. I personally think world events will foreshadow this before that happens and the whole case will slip away unnoticed. Best of Luck to Gary! Great Job on the poster by the way KL. OB 
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09-10-2008, 08:24 PM
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#20 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: brighton
Posts: 9
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
I say well done to Gary. He has obviously huge skills on a computer and what a refreshing change that he didnt just take a tenner from everyones bank accounts and live like a king. Also im sure that the us goverment would like him to go on the payrole. so however it ends i think he will be alright.
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09-12-2008, 08:54 AM
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#21 |
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Retired Avalon Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 41
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Hello lightworkers and Co-Creators,
I believe that Gary Mckinnon is a truely brave soul. I believe that this case has the potential to 'open ' many pathways to the exposure of TRUTH. Shifting from 3rd density into 4th and 5th density is going to be a time of many 'great revealings'.And we will begin to witness a multitude of deeply hidden truths emerging from everywhere!! My word we already are! All that is hidden will be revealed. Project Camelot is playing a beautiful role in this revealing of truths. Together we stand stronger x Last edited by STARCHILD; 09-12-2008 at 11:10 AM. |
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09-12-2008, 11:57 AM
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#22 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Not S-4
Posts: 306
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
How do you want to proof the damages?
We all know that damages can be maked up post-crime. I hope the judge/jury considers that. In dubio pro reo - benefit of the doubt And I would like to know if there are any sketches or so of the things Gary saw, I'm very curios because only from his narrations it's hardly to imagine. He also was quite vaguely. Last edited by King Lear; 09-12-2008 at 12:54 PM. |
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11-01-2008, 04:31 AM
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#23 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 226
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Quote:
Hah ? I'd like to know what dimension your flowering in ? ------------------ As far as Gary?, Would like to respect the USA will treat him and his proved hacking and/or espionage with the same jurisprudence the UK would under similar circumstances. Seems to me the man's in some serious trouble if convicted. RSF |
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11-03-2008, 03:17 PM
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#24 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 42
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Cross-party attempt to fight extradition of British hacker
Just to let you know what is going on at the mo. The following article was published in the Guardian this morning and it reflects the state of things as far as I know. However it does not mention the fact, that you can send a letter to your MP or all MPs and ask them to sign the Early Day Motion No. 2388 ‘Extradition of Gary McKinnon’ (brought by his local MP David Burrowes, 30/10/2008) at the earliest opportunity.
If you like to support Gary Please keep the pressure on... When I hear the phrase 'Cross Party' I can't help but think - what they really mean and are signalling to the public is - Don't get exited, we all agree here, that something needs to be done, go back to sleep and we will swipe this under the carpet, ops... take care of it, while you are not looking, you will not even know it was ever here...  Please keep the pressure on... I think the UK Government is concerned, that the public will wake up to the fact that the extradition laws they have signed are one sided and should have never been signed in the first place. But when the blind leading the blind what can we expect... Cross-party attempt to fight extradition of British hacker
The former home secretary David Blunkett is among those who believe that, because McKinnon has been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, he should be immediately repatriated if convicted. In an early day motion, the shadow justice minister, David Burrowes, has urged Smith not to permit the extradition without assurances from the US that McKinnon would be repatriated to serve any sentence in the UK if found guilty. Burrowes, the MP for the Enfield Southgate constituency in north London, where McKinnon lives, has alerted the home secretary to the "accepted practice" of the Dutch and Israeli governments requiring assurances from the US that any nationals with medical or mental health disabilities being deported to face trial should be repatriated to serve any sentence imposed. Blunkett, who was in office when the 2003 Extradition Act was passed, said yesterday that he was supporting calls for McKinnon to serve any sentence in the UK because of his "special needs". Burrowes's motion has already been supported by Chris Huhne, the Lib Dem home affairs spokesman, Chris Mullin, the former Foreign Office minister, and the Tory MP John Bercow. Burrowes has also asked Harriet Harman, the leader of the house, for a debate on the proposed extradition. He noted that the house had debated the case of the NatWest Three, also known as the Enron Three, and asked Harman: "Can at least similar efforts be made on behalf of my constituent, who is a vulnerable young man of little means who was ... recently diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome?" Lord West, the Home Office minister with responsibility for security, wrote to Burrowes last week telling him that "we reconsidered ... but found no grounds for overturning the order to surrender". McKinnon has also had support from the leading constitutional lawyer Geoffrey Robertson QC. "Jack Straw bent over backwards to accommodate Pinochet's medical condition," said Robertson, in a reference to the decision not to extradite the late Chilean dictator because he had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's. "It is highly unsatisfactory that this gifted and unusual British citizen should be extradited to face a massive sentence when he could have been prosecuted here before a British jury." Lawyers acting for McKinnon, 42, are seeking a judicial review of the case. McKinnon's mother, Janis Sharp, said: "Gary has Asperger's syndrome ... He believed the UK police when, almost seven years ago, they told him he would probably get six months' community service. Without having engaged a lawyer, he naively admitted to computer misuse but has always denied the alleged damage." Last edited by anonypony; 11-03-2008 at 03:20 PM. |
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11-03-2008, 03:29 PM
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#25 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 42
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Ask MPs to sign Early Day Motion No. 2388 sample letter
This is a sample letter asking your MP and all MPs to sign Early Day Motion No. 2388.
The best thing you can do, is write your own, second best - modify the one here to suit you view, if all of the above is not an option please feel free to use this one add mp name and you signature at the end. BW AP MP - House of Commons London, SW1A 0AA Dear MP I am writing to you that you may consider and sign the Early Day Motion No. 2388 ‘Extradition of Gary McKinnon’ (brought by his local MP David Burrowes, 30/10/2008) at the earliest opportunity. The purpose of EDM 2388 is to have the current Extradition Treaty between the UK and the USA amended whereby vulnerable people, such as those with Aspergers Syndrome, a form of Autism, or other mental health issues could not be extradited to the US until they have been given express assurances from the US authorities that in the event of being found guilty, and facing a period of imprisonment, they would be immediately repatriated to serve their sentence in the UK. Thus the vulnerable would be close to their family, and within reach of long term doctors or specialists who may have worked with them in the past and understand their requirements. Accused by the US authorities of hacking into and damaging US military and NASA computers, Gary McKinnon admits entering their computer systems in search of information about UFO’s and free energy but denies causing damage. Gary has recently been confirmed by a number of leading professionals in the field as having Aspergers Syndrome, a form of Autism. It was brought to his family’s attention by members of the Autism community who recognised common traits in his behaviour during recent media exposure. Unfortunately the discovery and diagnosis only came to light after the various unsuccessful appeals in the UK against his extradition. The emphasis of my letter to you concerns Gary, yet it has far wider implications. Whether you feel Gary should be extradited or not, is it not imperative that UK citizens are protected by their country? Whilst the extradition treaty currently subjects all UK residents to the unanswerable and unproven demands of a foreign state, allowances must be made, as I believe in the Netherlands and Israel, to protect the vulnerable. Thank you for reading this – please sign EDM 2388 and request your fellow MP’s to also sign. This issue is far too important – I urge you to view it and act with compassion. Yours sincerely, |
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