CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark

[Elizabeth Powell]

Why is it everytime the people who attack spiritual beliefs they never have any encouraging inspiring stories about how their values how made them better people or they never tell how their personal relationship with God (thru Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit) has changed their life like his has mine.

I would share with you but I don't dare cast pearls before swine.

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by Heretic

I am a little confused by your post...

isn't believing that Jesus is the living son of God, and that he is the Messiah and salvation of mankind, with all these laws and demands the very CORE of Christianity?

how can you claim to not be Christian?

not an attack, I would just like to see/hear some of the liturgy that pulls this neat trick off

peace

Hi,

To truly understand my post, you have to realize a few things about history. Before Christianity was even conceived of, there were very early believers (back then, they were called Netsarim--Hebrew for believers). And these early Netsarims were Yahushua, his disciples, and the ones who became followers right after Yahushua died and came back to life. Yahushua (the Son of Yahweh) was Hebrew, and he was from the Tribe of Judah. The word "Christian" did come up later on after Yahushua ascended to Heaven...during the times when the disciples were traveling around and teaching various churches (during the book of Acts). However, the word "Christian" was actually coined by a bunch of unbelievers who was trying to "poke fun" at believers of The Christ.

So, a lot of people started to adopt the word "Christian" to mean people who followed Christ. Remember that "Christ Jesus" is also a Greek name that was derived from Iesus. The name "Iesus" was actually first written in the original King James Bible (1611 and not the modern 1769 edition). In the 1769 King James, they changed "Iesus" to "Jesus." He was Hebrew, not Greek. Just remember that.

The modern day Christianity came from the Catholic Church. All the so-called denominations were actually an act of rebellion against the Catholic Church. That is why the early denomination was called Protestant (people who protest). Later, hundreds of more denominations were created from the Protestants.

So, as you can see, number one, Christian is a manmade name given to the true believers almost 2000 years ago. Number two, it's a Greek name derived from a Greek traditional name of Jesus. Yahushua was Hebrew and an Israelite (or a Jew if you want to get specific). Why would I want to be called Christian when 80% of the Catholic Church and Christian Churches teach pagan ideals (Christmas and Easter, for example)? Why would I want to be called Christian when it was invented by a bunch of pagans? The Christians took a little bit from the Netsarims (true believers and the original church that got started by Yahushua's disciples) and created their own religion. It's NOT the other way around. I hope that helps!

Note: That is why Christianity is such a deceptive religion. It's only partially correct.

-Phillip

[Heretic]

Hi,

To truly understand my post, you have to realize a few things about history. Before Christianity......

--SNIP--

... and created their own religion. It's NOT the other way around. I hope that helps!

Note: That is why Christianity is such a deceptive religion. It's only partially correct.

-Phillip

OK I am still confused,

again I am not attacking, I am just trying to resolve my confusion here. I have done extensive studies on religion in my past and I have never heard of this before.

I always thought a Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as presented in the New Testament and interpreted by Christians to have been prophesied in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament.

The word "Christ" comes from Greek Χριστιανός (khristianos), from Χριστός (khristos) meaning "the anointed." In the (Greek) Septuagint version of the Hebrew Bible, khristos was used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ,) (messiah), meaning "[one who is] anointed."

Terms like Christology, Christendom, and Christian were benevolent terms tossed around often before the Church of Alexandria convened the first ecumenical council in Nicaea (scholars argue on Nicaea) in which they wrote their creed.

Do you have any links to show the early use of the word "Christian" as derogatory term as I am very interested, having done alot of study on it as I was once a fanatic and checked out many denominations including alot of protestant platforms as well as some hermital gnostic orders and Eastern Russian Orthodoxy (the purest of the orthodox churches concerning liturgy IMHO) as my favorites.

I am intrigued to know if you belong to an established religion that teaches this, or are you operating under your own interpretations? If your part of an established church I would really like to read up on it, if you could point me to some literature.

and finally what parts of Christianity do you consider incorrect?

peace


PS I hope I am not hijacking this thread as it is a little off topic so PM me plz if you want me to take it private.

[arcora]

@Heretic

I do not presume to speak for Philip - He does that fine by himself and may have an entirely different view than me.

The way I see it is that there are Christians who are religionists. They attend their church services, go to their Sunday schools and let other men teach them what to believe. These are the corrupted religions that sprung up around the Bible.

Then there are what you could call Christians who do not want to be labeled as Christians because they do not want to be identified with the corrupted man-made churches. These people are part of the church that Jesus referred to as "His church". They reach their understandings by reading the Bible and visiting the Kingdom of God which Jesus taught is within us all.

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by Heretic

OK I am still confused,

again I am not attacking, I am just trying to resolve my confusion here. I have done extensive studies on religion in my past and I have never heard of this before.

I always thought a Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as presented in the New Testament and interpreted by Christians to have been prophesied in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament.

The word "Christ" comes from Greek Χριστιανός (khristianos), from Χριστός (khristos) meaning "the anointed." In the (Greek) Septuagint version of the Hebrew Bible, khristos was used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ,) (messiah), meaning "[one who is] anointed."

Terms like Christology, Christendom, and Christian were benevolent terms tossed around often before the Church of Alexandria convened the first ecumenical council in Nicaea (scholars argue on Nicaea) in which they wrote their creed.

Do you have any links to show the early use of the word "Christian" as derogatory term as I am very interested, having done alot of study on it as I was once a fanatic and checked out many denominations including alot of protestant platforms as well as some hermital gnostic orders and Eastern Russian Orthodoxy (the purest of the orthodox churches concerning liturgy IMHO) as my favorites.

I am intrigued to know if you belong to an established religion that teaches this, or are you operating under your own interpretations? If your part of an established church I would really like to read up on it, if you could point me to some literature.

and finally what parts of Christianity do you consider incorrect?

peace


PS I hope I am not hijacking this thread as it is a little off topic so PM me plz if you want me to take it private.

Hi Heretic,

You are correct with the information provided. Here are a few links about the term, "Christian."

http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...christian.html

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/openhse/christian.html

http://www.jesusfamilies.org/hot_topics/christian.htm

Notice that Yahushua never called his followers "Christian" in the scriptures. He called them "Disciples," "Brethen," and even "Friend." The term "Christian" was always used by unbelievers or as I call them, "Pagans."

Arcora was correct. I do not want to be labeled similar to the "Christian church" that follow pagan beliefs. Remember to separate yourself from all pagan worship and beliefs. Because if you claim to be a true believer, you MUST separate yourself and stay with the family of spiritual Israel (again, not the current corrupted, physical Israel). Here are some (there are many, many problems with the Christian church) terrible issues with the "Christians."

1. They observe pagan holidays and then call them "Christian" as though they are "holy" or something. Examples: Christmas, Easter, Valentine's Day, Thanksgiving Day, Halloween (yes, Christians follow this Pagan mess as well), ALL holidays are pagan. If you want to follow Yahweh properly, observe His Holy Days 7 times a year plus His weekly Sabbaths.

2. Holy Trinity - There is nothing "holy" about this doctrine. All trinities are of pagan origin. Do your research. The Holy Spirit is NOT a separate god or something. It's the Spirit of Yahweh. Father Yahweh is the ONLY ONE who begat a Son...his name is Yahushua who enforces the laws and commandments of our Father. Yes, Yahushua is our elder brother, master, high priest, and the sacrificial lamb. The Catholic Church worships a "Holy Trinity." Enough said.

3. Sunday Sabbath and Worship - Sunday is the first day of the week. The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week. Check your Gregorian Calendar. Notice that it is called SUN-Day. Pagans dating back all the way to Egypt and Rome worship the Sun god Baal. This was introduced by the Catholic Church. Notice the trend?

4. "Christians" worship and praise the cross. It's an image...read your ten commandments again. Again, the Catholic Church worships images all over the place. And yes, they also introduced wearing and sanctifying the cross.

5. Greek names - Ok, this is the big one. Why do "Christians" use greek names of the son, and just call our Father, "God" and "Lord" ALL the time? Do you realize how important His name is? Do you want to be called "The Busboy" all your life, instead of by your name? Did you know that "Lord" means "Baal?"

Well, there are MANY more doctrines that are just pagan in nature. I can go on for months.

I belong to NO religious group. I am an Israelite who was grafted unto the Olive Tree of Israel by Father Yahweh, for He chose me and I chose Him afterwards. I was then sent to Yahushua to be trained and mentored by the ONLY and GREATEST Master of Heaven and Earth. Through Yahushua's sacrifice, I am now the Son of Yahweh AND part of the Royal Priesthood from the Kingdom of Yahweh. I am from one of the twelve tribes of Israel and sealed with my Father's name on my forehead forever and forever. My hands do the works of Yahweh, my heart yields ALL love to Him, and my mind bears the set-apart Name of Yahweh to fulfill His will on Earth.

Finally, all interpretations of scripture during my studies are done by my Father's Spirit. The Bible is NOT for private interpretation.

-Phillip

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by ctophil

Hi Heretic,

You are correct with the information provided. Here are a few links about the term, "Christian."

---snip---

Finally, all interpretations of scripture during my studies are done by my Father's Spirit. The Bible is NOT for private interpretation.

-Phillip

aahhhh, ok noow I understand

My problem was that I have barely even glanced at the NIV Bible. When it came out I kinda rolled my eyes and said to myself "another one?" I compared the passages from the NIV to the KJV and i feel I have missed the boat on this, but it matters not. You have answered my question friend with links and something for me to take a deeper look into when the urge arises. That is exactly what I asked for.

I also agree with your fine points comparing modern Christianity with paganism and I am in total agreement. I am curious if you follow a combination of the Mosaic law with the laws of Abraham then? Kinda reminds me of the "World Wide Church of God" beliefs but there are a few others out there that do this as well.

Don't get me wrong, I am not Christian either, but I believe I am far removed from your version of not being Christian. Its all good as there are infinite paths to that which is infinite. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions so thoroughly.

good times

peace

PS - I got a really big kick out of the Ebonic Bible, I so wish I had bought when it came out because now I cant find it anywhere. Have been looking for a PDF of it for a long time.

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by Heretic

I also agree with your fine points comparing modern Christianity with paganism and I am in total agreement. I am curious if you follow a combination of the Mosaic law with the laws of Abraham then? Kinda reminds me of the "World Wide Church of God" beliefs but there are a few others out there that do this as well.

I follow all of the old and new testament. The Torah (first five books of Moses), which is the Mosiac laws you referred to, I follow it completely. Yahushua followed all of Yahweh's laws and commandments perfectly, including the Torah.

The Church of God and the Messianic Jews are close to following true doctrine. But they lack or add onto Yahweh's laws at certain points. You are not to add nor remove anything from the Word of Yahweh. So I consider them false as well, since they follow some of man's commandments. That reminds me, modern Judaism is also a false religion in case you guys are wondering.

-Phillip

[clarkkent]

a reminder; i started this thread to see peoples backrounds and discussion about why that might lead them to Ufology and this forum.

lets not have this tilt towards telling people the "true" way of anything. your beliefs are true for you and no one else, if i wanted to preach my beliefs i would have started a thread about "my" truth, but i didnt because i dont need to. as long as someone a good person i could care less what they believed.

[undetected]

Originally Posted by ctophil

there is only one Elohim

Now that made my day! Pretty funny, considering that the -im in Elohim signifies plural.

Actually the old testament is full of plurals for the word "God," but christian translations of the bible "corrected" that so you wouldn't know if you don't do research. And of course christians are forbidden from doing research in any other source than the bible.

Secondly, the so called "God" of old testament is nothing but a sadistic, selfish, arrogant and vain warmonger. The whole thing is about discrimination, slavery and massacre. Chosen people, my ass. That god breaks all of his own commandments. He reminds me a lot of the NWO.

And my third point, that's also quite hilarious - yes, there is only one god, however, these Elohim look a lot more like a bunch of aliens who love making humans their slaves. Nothing in common with the one God.

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by undetected

Now that made my day! Pretty funny, considering that the -im in Elohim signifies plural.

Actually the old testament is full of plurals for the word "God," but christian translations of the bible "corrected" that so you wouldn't know if you don't do research. And of course christians are forbidden from doing research in any other source than the bible.

Secondly, the so called "God" of old testament is nothing but a sadistic, selfish, arrogant and vain warmonger. The whole thing is about discrimination, slavery and massacre. Chosen people, my ass. That god breaks all of his own commandments. He reminds me a lot of the NWO.

And my third point, that's also quite hilarious - yes, there is only one god, however, these Elohim look a lot more like a bunch of aliens who love making humans their slaves. Nothing in common with the one God.

That's because when I talk about Elohim, I'm talking about the entire family of Yahweh. Father Yahweh, Yahushua, and all of True Israel are One. Just like when Yahushua said "The Father and I are One." If you just want to talk about Yahweh Himself, then you can use Eloah. But He likes to look at Himself as a family and not single Himself out. You will only understand this if you have a true relationship with Him.

-Phillip

[undetected]

First of all, Yahweh is His true name.

What's with all this dwelling on god's names? Why would you need a name for a god when there's only one? If there were a bunch of gods then you need to name them, but if there's just one, then I don't care if you call him Yahweh or Jack.

I follow all of the old and new testament. The Torah (first five books of Moses), which is the Mosiac laws you referred to, I follow it completely.

Now that's scary. Like I said, discrimination, slavery and massacre.

If you are a follower of darkness, you are doing evil.

OK, since you said that, could you, please, define "darkness"? Cause I hope you don't mean that thing outside at night. Then what is it?

[Orion Morris]

holy s**t man!

ctophil you make alot of sense and I agree with your arguements

I love humanity and god and I try to do the right thing whenever I can

However, how could a god made of pure goodness and love be judgemental... isnt that a sin? You are very fanatical...

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

holy s**t man!

ctophil you make alot of sense and I agree with your arguements

I love humanity and god and I try to do the right thing whenever I can

However, how could a god made of pure goodness and love be judgemental... isnt that a sin? You are very fanatical...

Yahweh wants us to follow His laws and commandments. Why? Because without His laws, we are just going to destroy each other and ultimately the whole world. Do you realize what's going on in this world right now? If you are righteous (meaning you follow all His laws and have total faith in Him), then you are allowed to judge...but only righteous judgement (judging based on His laws and not laws of mankind). Yahweh is very forgiving, loving, and most important of all, His ways are higher than your ways (that means what He does you may not like, but eventually it will be good for you and others in the long term). Anything outside of His laws and statutes, you are judging others unrighteously and may lead to corruption, revenge, and other means of evil. So there are things you won't understand unless He explains it to you if required.

Originally Posted by undetected

What's with all this dwelling on god's names? Why would you need a name for a god when there's only one? If there were a bunch of gods then you need to name them, but if there's just one, then I don't care if you call him Yahweh or Jack.



Now that's scary. Like I said, discrimination, slavery and massacre.



OK, since you said that, could you, please, define "darkness"? Cause I hope you don't mean that thing outside at night. Then what is it?

Yahweh's name was mentioned in the scriptures almost 7,000 times. That makes His name more important than anyone can conceive. His name is Salvation, Goodness, Glorious, Holy, and Righteous. Need I say more?

I have explained to everybody the ways of Yahweh throughout this thread. Please read the "evil" post again until you understand what darkness means. I explained with a lot of metaphors in that post. You must think outside of the box to understand. Darkness is a metaphor, don't think too literally. The Bible is full of metaphors; so this is nothing new.

-Phillip

[Orion Morris]

You should look at Norvals post about the bible is about et's...

Do you not agree that it is kind of strange that all of our sacred texts say that god came from the sky....

Plus their are actually books that were excluded from the bible that explain god coming down in space ships...

Of course the bible is full of metaphors... It is one big giant metaphor...

Explain how is it that one person is born into a situation where they have no chance of ever coming in contact with gods rules is supposed to follow them...

You still have not answered undetected's question about the scriptues dealing with slavery and massacre.

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

You should look at Norvals post about the bible is about et's...

Do you not agree that it is kind of strange that all of our sacred texts say that god came from the sky....

Plus their are actually books that were excluded from the bible that explain god coming down in space ships...

Of course the bible is full of metaphors... It is one big giant metaphor...

Explain how is it that one person is born into a situation where they have no chance of ever coming in contact with gods rules is supposed to follow them...

You still have not answered undetected's question about the scriptues dealing with slavery and massacre.

I did answer it in a different thread:

Originally Posted by ctophil

What's the point of a "spirituality" section of a forum if you can't preach and witness? Part of being spiritual is showing your love and compassion for others; so you must share what others need to know about your faith. You see, if you love Yahweh (once again, this is his true name...YHWH, ancient Hebrew didn't have vowels) the way you say you do, then His love will show to everybody that you are a son or daughter of the Most High. You can't hide it. It's almost impossible. So others WILL see Yahweh's love projecting outwards for everybody to see, hear, and experience. That is true spirituality.

By the way, Jehovah is incorrect. If you want to spell EXACTLY the way you should pronounce His name via Hebrew, it is "Yahuwah." The letter "J" was only added to the English language later on. There is no way there would be a "J" sound in His name. Anyways, He did destroy the whole world before via the times of Noah, except for Noah and His family (total of 8 people). Was that "evil?" No. Why? Why does killing almost everybody not "evil?" Remember that Yahweh is a righteous Elohim (means the mighty one). Not only is He perfectly righteous, He is holy, pure, and the ultimate form of goodness. People by nature, ever since the first sin entered mankind from Adam and Eve, are evil and rebellious. We like to do our own thing, create our own religion, and hate it when others tell us what to do. Isn't that right? But when we follow our own heart, we are going to do evil things. Like lie, steal, have sex with multiple partners, kill others, selfish, enjoy making others suffer, seek revenge, unrighteous hatred, create destructive factions, greedy to no end, extreme anger, lust after everything, and the list just doesn't stop!

Now how can Yahweh ever live with people like that? Folks, I CAN'T even live with people like that!!! His goal is to live with us forever and forever. That's why He created us. To create a beautiful, glorious family of humans to co-exist with Him. He gave us the freedom to choose. But most of us ultimately chose our own ways. And guess what? Our own ways begat a world of corruption, death, and destruction. That is the world we are living in today. So, Yahweh had to destroy people time and time again to...guess what? Start over. But everybody, this is it...this is the final generation of people who will experience His final plan to create a lovable family. You will all see His plan evolve before your very eyes into the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN here on Earth. You will all see it coming to pass in a few short years.

Next, I would like to say that if you are a "true witness" of the Kingdom of Yahweh. Then, you must be loving Him with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. If you do not, then neither are you a true witness nor a son/daughter of Yahweh. Yes, I've seen dreams and visions (Prophecy for me to understand what's going to happen, not for others). Yes, Yahweh has spoken to me with His own voice (spiritual manifestation) through dreams. I'm a dreamer similar to Joseph in the scriptures. Yes, Yahweh has spoken to me through my heart as a voice of His Spirit. Yes, He has performed miracles beyond people's imaginations in my life. But all those things only mean that I love Him with everything I have. And He loves me more than I do. Because He loved me before I even knew Him.

Take care and blessings to everybody who seek my Father, which is in Heaven.

-Phillip

As for slavery part, if Yahweh gave us total freedom to choose our ways if we wanted to, why is it slavery? The only slavery is when you follow this world and believe in a false political, monetary, religious system you're living in today.

-Phillip

[undetected]

Originally Posted by ctophil

That's because when I talk about Elohim, I'm talking about the entire family of Yahweh. Father Yahweh, Yahushua, and all of True Israel are One.

The word Elohim is in the first sentence of old testament "Bere**** bara Elohim..." so what family? There was supposed to be only god at that point. Why a plural for god at the very beginning of creation?

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by undetected

The word Elohim is in the first sentence of old testament "Bere**** bara Elohim..." so what family? There was supposed to be only god at that point. Why a plural for god at the very beginning of creation?

You are correct about the Hebrew in Genesis. The host of Angels were already around during the times of Genesis. Remember that the Angels are also part of the family. Angels are brethen as mentioned in scripture. They are created beings just like us. However at this point, they are temporarily superior in righteousness than mankind because they already made it to the Family of Israel. Also, there are others in the family of Israel (Israel simply means to "overcome" or "strive" to the very end in the name of El Shaddai. So people of Israel are simply "Overcomers" of darkness or evil), such as the Elders, the "odd" beasts around the throne of Yahweh, pre-mankind beings who eventually became "demons" today. Yes, if you study all of the Bible, there were beings on Earth before humans. But some of these "demons" betrayed Yahweh and got banished from the Kingdom. Fallen Angels and Demons are not the same thing.

-Phillip

[norman]

Originally Posted by undetected

. . . . so you wouldn't know if you don't do research. And of course christians are forbidden from doing research in any other source than the bible. . . . .

As I am partly responsible for the directional drift of this thread, I'd like get back to Ck's original post. The selection above could be repeated for ANY religious believers.

[undetected]

Yahweh's name was mentioned in the scriptures almost 7,000 times. That makes His name more important than anyone can conceive.

That's utter garbage and has zero percent of logic in it. George Bush also mentioned "war on terror" about 7,000 times. Just because I say something many times, doesn't make it important. Not talking about the fact that there were people living BEFORE the bible was written and they were doing fine without knowing god's first name.

Please read the "evil" post again until you understand what darkness means. I explained with a lot of metaphors in that post.

Well I was curious about your definition of evil. You explained evil as following of darkness, so I asked what you mean by darkness, and you point me back to evil. Anyway, doesn't matter, I've had too many talks with bible freaks in my life and it leads nowhere else than to destruction of any logic.

Our own ways begat a world of corruption, death, and destruction. That is the world we are living in today. So, Yahweh had to destroy people time and time again to...guess what? Start over

He "had to destroy"? Who told him so? He creates something, lets it act on its own, it doesn't work out the way he'd like it, so he slaughters everyone. You have a free will but if you don't do what I tell you, I kill you. How is that a free will? JHVH is a terrorist.

OK, I'm out of here.

Note to self: Don't click on threads about christianity!

[Jonah]

Nice post milk and honey.
I was also a raised catholic, with many christian friends.

People with agendas about religion are not aware that they themselves are propagating their religion by posting about it. This is ok. They have the free will to do so.

The forum allows much of this. The law of allowance gives them the ability to get there message out there.

So Thats why so many are posting about their religion. But if you notice there are many posts in their threads but few individuals.

Those of us that believe that the Christ energy was a descending energy who set out to show us how to believe in ourselves, do not feel insulted by those who post about religion.

We cannot change the minds of those who are not ready to throw away all beliefs in everything but their own truth. Their own reality.

[clarkkent]

Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge

.

Those of us that believe that the Christ energy was a descending energy who set out to show us how to believe in ourselves, do not feel insulted by those who post about religion.

We cannot change the minds of those who are not ready to throw away all beliefs in everything but their own truth. Their own reality.

for the record im not insulted by religious posts or threads im just noticing a lot of them, and certainly theyre 99% christian and not others.

this thread was more or less a "lets see a show of hands, who's a christian" and then maybe a brief summary why they went from those beliefs to incorporating aliens and whatnot into it.

i didnt set out for a religious debate because it will go on and on endlessly. everybody has interpreted christianity a bazillion different ways and will continue to do so.

christianity has managed to incorporate every new scientific discovery and im sure aliens is just another example of that. i think its interesting- personally all of "jesus's" (or whomever you want to call him you can debate if he actually existed as a person , certainly theres evidence he didnt)
but whatver the case the messages attributed to the man are good so i have no problem with that.

christianity in particular has an "end times" scenario with a great battle between good and evil/light and dark and a lot of people are taking whats coming as an example of that and aliens/reptillians/dark entities and their "agenda" fit right into that (this is my summation and observation)

i think the more interesting question is whether "civilzations" with organized religions and a hierarchical ruling order is a biologically inferior way of life compared to nomadic hunter gatherer tribes. certainly if atlantis and lemuria with their oh so advanced technology/spirituality wiped themselves out and we went back to tribal living and then now we wipe ourselves out with the exception of isolated tribes. we existed that way for hundreds of thousands of years before jesus, mohamed , buddha showed up.

personally i like the phrase "god helps those who help themselves" and everything that implies.

[Jonah]

Yah. The church has had kind of a "go with the flow" policy as of late.

Maybe they see that they don't have control over the masses like they used to.

But being as how most of the world is still christian, I could be wrong.

IMO, they will do whatever they can to incorporate information about such things, so they don't look wrong.

So people don't ask questions. So people can say "see, I told it was in the bible already."

[Frank Samuel]

For you Clark one of my best friends born in Manchester England a funny little english guy wanted to follow the footsteps of Guatama Buddha, he travel to India and walk town to town barefoot with a back pack, few funds and a heart the sized of mount everest, he said he wanted to understand the heart of the Buddha. His story stuck with me, although I have never been to India or Tibet I have many friends there. I have travel but have not made it there yet. I study buddhism from my friend the English wacko. By the way he was white. Belief for the most part is regional, America the melting pot we have every religion under the sun. You know what I think is funny and positive, a white looking person attending the Black muslim mosque in Harlem. Is all in the mind how we perceive ourselves, and I guess the same can be said about religion.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by undetected

(In a query to ctophil)... Well I was curious about your definition of evil. You explained evil as following of darkness, so I asked what you mean by darkness, and you point me back to evil. Anyway, doesn't matter, I've had too many talks with bible freaks in my life and it leads nowhere else than to destruction of any logic.

I can't answer for ctophil, but...

'evil' = 'live' spelled backwards because the same energy from the same source is involved in both types of expression. Evil is negative energy expressed through the distorted lens of the outer mind and emotions. These expressions of the lower-ego are vibrationally 'dead' because the energy is trapped in the form of a lower vibration and cannot rise into it's essential spiritual vibration until it is transformed by the inner-Christ.

As we transmute the mental/emotional egoic lens (by entering the "inner-kingdom" or realising the "inner- Christ") we can, like Jesus, be the 'open door' for the flow of spiritual energy from the inner- Christ to the outer world. Our expressions are then spiritual and therefore 'alive' not 'evil'.

That's why Jesus said: "I AM the open door which no man can shut"

And why Moses said: "I have set before you Life and Death. Choose Life!"

Originally Posted by undetected

He (Yaweh) "had to destroy"? Who told him so? He creates something, lets it act on its own, it doesn't work out the way he'd like it, so he slaughters everyone. You have a free will but if you don't do what I tell you, I kill you. How is that a free will? JHVH is a terrorist.

It's not too dificult to come to that conclusion but it's a misunderstanding.

The slaughter of man by man and even the ferocity of mother nature are created by the mind of man. The scriptures often reveal the karmic law by having the 'LAW' speak in the first person. That is, the 'LORD' is the 'LAW' in it's impersonal aspect.

"I will write my law on their inward parts
I shall be their God (within them) and they shall be my people."

When we violate the law of love in our interactions with each other the karmic law returns our expressions to ourselves. Whether we see it as the LORD delivering his judgement or the impersonal working of the LAW it's the same. A spiritual teaching sometimes accomodates man's misapprehensions and sometimes it challenges them. Over a long period of time the same teaching is presented in different ways (in the bible and the religious texts of different cultures).

Karma = "Whatsoever a man shall sow, that shall he also reap"

We have freewill. We can use it to grow spiritually by serving others. Or we can selfishly violate others inalienable rights to life, liberty and happiness. It's our choice. The spiritual adepts are 'One with God'. As the 'open door' or instrument of the LAW of love they do not force humanity to stop behaving badly. They guide and teach the law so that we can make enlightened choices in expressing our freewill. They understand that nations and individuals have karma, some more than others depending on our actions and our failures to act. They do not prevent the working of the karmic law and at certain times the return of karma is ferocious in equal measure to man's own ferocity 'sown' over a long time period, in this case around 25800 years (a "great cycle"). It is the end of an age (the "end times") and a mountain of karma is due.

At critical junctures like this the adepts can intervene to steer the return of karma where it is due. Individuals and nations can be helped to see destruction before it arrives and shown a higher way but if that guidance (through our own hearts) is ignored then the karma must descend and become physical. The return of karmic energies cannot be prevented but the adepts teach us how to transmute it by rising into a higher state of consciousness. That is the extent of their intervention. If "alien saviours in UFOs" are openly "disclosed" to us they will be the smiling assassins.

[Corky]

I too was raised a Christian but have always felt that the dogmas of the church somehow did not ring true for me.

In regards to the "Jesus Myth", I find that it does not matter. What matters is the message of enlightenment that has threatened the PTB through the ages.The message is totally lost when you subjugate your soul to the worship of the messenger...any messenger which is why I think the "Church" was created..to separate us from God.

I don't think that Jesus or whomever you believe in wants to be worshipped if they have come with a message of true enlightenment. We worship because we don't feel worthy. As if we really believe we were "born in sin" which for me is the antithesist of a "Virgin Birth". We are all born pure and have no need for a Savior.

We can embrace and honour his words in our hearts, permeating our souls and let them flow forth through our love ..or bow down and douse the divine spark within.

Just a thought.