Is Vegan/Vegetarian an Illuminati Deception?

[Metaphor]

Originally Posted by Neo

As far as the debate goes about what is good for you well I do believe that native cultures had a much better idea about what is good and funny enough none ( to my knowledge ) were vegetarian or vegan.

Well there were also cannibalism, ritual sacrifice and other barbaric behaviour. I think the discussion should be around us human beings NOW, not in the past. I´m still not saying going vegetarian is the way for everyone BTW

Originally Posted by Neo

Also funny that some veg/vegan people have cravings for meat or animal produce sometimes. When I crave anything that to me is my body telling me I need something from what ever it is I'm craving.

I sometimes crave for alcohol also, that does not equal that my body really needs it. It´s all about to what extent you wanna satisfy the reptilian brain. Don´t let the body tell to you what to do. As long as the real and inner you is at the steering wheel, it´s totally ok.

Originally Posted by Neo

I would proabably pay more attention to veg/vegans if they were all perfectly healthy people but for the majority I have met, they are either overweight or have some other health issues....hmmm

Eeeerrr... have you seen some of the people that comes out of McdDonalds? I thought you were refering to them. But, yes the are non meat eaters (mostly young people without knowledge of how to preparing food) in terrible condition aswell.

Originally Posted by Neo

The only thing that bothers me with SOME veg/vegans is their almost religious stance on it and the irony is that alot of these people proclaim to be sipiritually evolving while spitting venom at meat eaters at the same time.

Yes that is a real problem, and gives the whole thing a bad reputation. Especially the vegan milita telling that they have found "the way". I consider veganism as a kind of over-reaction (almost like a stress reaction) against our terrible way of treating animals. Veganism wouldn´t have developed without it.

[Carmen]

Phtha is banned!!!? What's going on here? Why?

[Metaphor]

Originally Posted by Carmen

Phtha is banned!!!? What's going on here? Why?

What??? I thought we were having a civilised discussion?
I cannot see any reason for that in any of the posts above. Is there something going on in another thread we have missed? Or what? Could someone please clarify ASAP?

[Karen]

Originally Posted by Metaphor

What??? I thought we were having a civilised discussion?
I cannot see any reason for that in any of the posts above. Is there something going on in another thread we have missed? Or what? Could someone please clarify ASAP?

Phtha resigned from the researcher team (he posted this to the forum) and due to a "back room" incident has a temporary ban until our only admin Gareth shows up to help. It has nothing to do with this thread. Please once again, I must ask your indulgence to remain calm and give us a day or two to sort it out - we are all volunteers in numerous time zones and there is sweet little instant resolution on any matter.

[Ravens and Doves]

Originally Posted by Metaphor

What??? I thought we were having a civilised discussion?
I cannot see any reason for that in any of the posts above. Is there something going on in another thread we have missed? Or what? Could someone please clarify ASAP?

I was driving down the 101 freeway today and seeing a cop car in my rear-view, I had to change over to the "Avalonites Only" lane.

After merging to the left, I saw the car in front of me had a bumper sticker that read: "STOP ARGUMENTIVE VEGETARIAN THREADS - EAT YOURSELF"

Paul

[morguana]

i have read this thread, and dont believe for a minute that vegetarianism is linked to any illuminati deception, but an interesting hypothosis no less.

i do not eat meat/fish, our folks tried us with various meat products when we were toddlers, both my sister and i refused. so have been a veggy from the word go, however my children do eat white meat and fish, it is their choice so i am happy to cook meat for them. i am not squimish when it comes to killing and preping animals for consumption.......just do not like the texture of it in my mouth. i agree many veggy folk have some deficancy in nutients, but as long as one eats a well rounded and balenced diet then the over all health benifits of being a veggy is extreamly positive. i never worry about my weight, dont even own scales, and always listen to what my body is needing in tearms of nutients, manage to fight bugs using plants, herbs and spices. the only thing i find is that we eat a huge amount of food everyday, have to eat every couple of hours or so, but its healthy, organic, balenced and homemade.

m x

[Sideshow Shaman]

Yeah this subject is the ultimate agitation on most any site on the net. Generates an argument whenever it comes up... So, whatever, here are a couple thoughts,

It seems funny that people would point to deficiencies as a reason to eat meat. Because most the meat eaters I see look deficient as well.

Notice that there are two type of "diets", exclusionary and inclusionary. Focusing on the first is often required for people to leave behind unhealthy habits. Focusing conversations on exclusion can tend towards arguing though. Focusing on the inclusionary diets is more informative. For instance I am interested in eating foods high in RNA (which can be done with or without meat).

"There is no energy crisis, food crisis or environmental crisis.
There is only a crisis of ignorance." --- R. Buckminster Fuller

To be relevant, "There is no nutritional crisis. There is only a crisis of ignorance."

[Earthian]

Here is a poem that was one of a couple of things that made me quit eating pigs and cows although the poem is about consuming horses. I still have to learn to be complete vegetarian since I do eat chicken once in a while and fish.

The Last Breath - Alexandra Dolbenev
My owner loved me right to death,
He said he would until my last breath,
So why am I driven far away?
Did I do something wrong? Why can’t I stay,
The truck is crowded with many of me,
They don’t look too happy, I thought we were free?
I can smell the stench of fatality,
The men say, “But hey, this is reality,”
What are they doing, where are we going?
Will there be trees and winds a blowing?
The horses ears are back in fright,
They try to escape, a horrid sight,
Their hoofs get caught inside the wall,
Their legs break off, their blood will fall,
Please Oh what is going on?
Will I reach another dawn?
The truck drives up with many dead,
Where they await,
To be shocked in the head,
HELP! HELP! Doesn’t anybody care,
I thought somebody loved me, they would shoo away the scare!
AHHH…they shocked me,
I can’t move or even see,
The men stare cruelly into my eyes,
“It won’t hurt,”
These are all lies,
A rope pulls me upside down,
In these chains I am bound,
Why do they do this, what have I done wrong?
Why can’t I live, any long?
My last breath,
Before my death,
I remember the good times in the pasture,
This all happened, no more then last year,
She said she loved me, no matter how old,
I can never believe what I was told,
“You’ll soon be free, there is no pain,”
They don’t know it, they can’t feel it, they’re insane,
Want me for food?
Will I taste good?
I hope you choke on my meat,
And feel the pain of my last heart beat,
Why do they eat us, why not themselves?
I bet you they know that we’re going through hell,
So next time you eat us or kill us, look at the skies,
Our families are lost, because of the lies,
Can’t you see them or feel their cries?
How does it feel to be lost from your dears,
Does it bring memories does it bring tears?
The life of a horse, is worthwhile the life,
To finish it up oh why is there strife?
Don’t let it happen, and I’ll tell you how,
Sign a petition and help us NOW!

[Kra]

Originally Posted by Earthian

The Last Breath - Alexandra Dolbenev
My owner loved me right to death,
He said he would until my last breath,
So why am I driven far away?
Did I do something wrong? Why can’t I stay,[mod snip of long quote in post above]

I can't believe people thought even for a sec that animals exist to be eaten. The illuminati are not trying to convince us to eat vegtables, if it were so... we wouldn't have all those comercials on TV about meat based food. This is not the conspiracy. They want us to eat meat... and one of the reasons is that it lowers our vibrational frequency.

[bashi]

Originally Posted by Kra

They want us to eat meat... and one of the reasons is that it lowers our vibrational frequency.

I think its a clever Psy-Ops to prevent people listening to their hearts.
I heard a lot of BS for being a veg. They said " you will not be able to get childen, because it affects the sperm." These guys are nuts! Look at billions of veg Indians.
But some are very clever: If you think you can escape a kind of TPTB brainwashing by intentionally eating meet, then welcome.

Oh, yes. You are sheeple...

.

[Neo]

Originally Posted by Metaphor

Well there were also cannibalism, ritual sacrifice and other barbaric behaviour. I think the discussion should be around us human beings NOW, not in the past. I´m still not saying going vegetarian is the way for everyone BTW


Forgetting ethics and morals for a moment, eating humans would actually be good for you (blood is also) and I wasnt actually refering to their behaviour though.


I sometimes crave for alcohol also, that does not equal that my body really needs it. It´s all about to what extent you wanna satisfy the reptilian brain. Don´t let the body tell to you what to do. As long as the real and inner you is at the steering wheel, it´s totally ok.

How do you know that your body doesnt actually need alcohol?
You dont believe that your body knows what it needs? Thats like ignoring your mechanic when he says your car needs a tune up.


Eeeerrr... have you seen some of the people that comes out of McdDonalds? I thought you were refering to them. But, yes the are non meat eaters (mostly young people without knowledge of how to preparing food) in terrible condition aswell.

No I was actually refering to a person I know that is over 50, overweight, diabetic and also vegan.

Yes that is a real problem, and gives the whole thing a bad reputation. Especially the vegan milita telling that they have found "the way". I consider veganism as a kind of over-reaction (almost like a stress reaction) against our terrible way of treating animals. Veganism wouldn´t have developed without it.

Agreed.

[Metaphor]

Originally Posted by Neo

Agreed.

You don´t know the amounts of alcohol my body craves for...



:

[Peter]

Thank you Karen for yet another exciting thread.
When I first started Blacksmithing I had been a veggie/vegan for 7 years but my body (or my inner voice) kept telling me I needed more protein in the form of flesh to cope with the physical workload.
I remember vividly sitting in front of a smoked mackeral fillet for more than a hour. It was quite funny now looking back I just couldn't bring myself to eat it. I eventually did as the passion for my work was stronger than my guilt of eating flesh again.
That was nearly 18 years ago and ever since I've been eating flesh about once or twice a week that depends as I try to only eat organic food, which really limits ones choice through availability and price.
I used to kill our own chickens as I believe that all who eat flesh should at least once in their life kill an animal themselves and then eat it. I no longer eat chicken I didn't like killing them or raising them. I lived with them for long enough to understand that chickens are quite nasty vindictive creatures who would eat their own mother, they're dirty things as well lots of parasites, yuk.
I've been in an industrial chicken shed with 20.000 screeching, suffering birds and I know what they eat and most of their food is medication so I don't eat any chicken anymore. Like the Hunza people I eat goat meat and cheese now and then along with a large variety of fruit and veg living and cooked
so I might make it to one hundred who knows. As Paracelsus said "Your food is your medicine".
On our property my wife Rosie and I keep pigs to work the land (we're planting a forest garden) and goats to give us milk and cheese. We've killed one of our piglets for its meat and that was a very taumatic experience for me if not for the pig he was eating when he was shot in the head so he died happy. Our 3 nanny goats are pregnant at this moment and we haven't decided what to do with the little ones.
Its a different reality when you raise your own meat.

Thanks for reading my bit.
Glad to be here, Peter.

[Blisstasista]

Originally Posted by Peter

I used to kill our own chickens as I believe that all who eat flesh should at least once in their life kill an animal themselves and then eat it. I no longer eat chicken I didn't like killing them or raising them. I lived with them for long enough to understand that chickens are quite nasty vindictive creatures who would eat their own mother, they're dirty things as well lots of parasites, yuk.
.

[Carmen]

As I have said previously, I find this subject interesting and thanks to Karen for all the info she has published.

I am finding myself more and more allergic to bread, to gluten and probably to yeast as well. My children and grandchildren seem to have varying degrees of the same allergies which is understandable.

The symtoms i have after eating bread (gluten) include headaches, tiredness, diahharia, brain fog, farting and excessive appettite at times.

I bought a book yesterday by a New Zealand doctor who has successfully treated many many patients. Many of his patients are young children and young adults. All of my symtoms plus others are mentioned by this doctor as evidence of gluten intolerance. I intended to quote from this book on this thread, but I showed a friend the book today and she snapped it up to go read as most of the symtoms talked about she and her partner are also experiencing.

This doctor says that gluten will cause a down grading of the brain and nervous system. I certainly experience a foggy brain when Ive eaten bread. Isnt it interesting that the food pyramid touted now by the health experts now is based on bread and cereals. If I wanted to dumb down a population what better way to do it than to push a product that is cheap (bread buns etc) that is added to most of processed foods (gluten, msg) and affects the brain and nervous systems of a huge percentage of the population!

Im sorry to have no references for this Drs long study into this gluten intolerance. When I manage to wrestle the book off my friend I will post the info!!!

Cheers

Carmen

[Karen]

Originally Posted by Carmen

As I have said previously, I find this subject interesting and thanks to Karen for all the info she has published.

I am finding myself more and more allergic to bread, to gluten and probably to yeast as well. My children and grandchildren seem to have varying degrees of the same allergies which is understandable.

The symtoms i have after eating bread (gluten) include headaches, tiredness, diahharia, brain fog, farting and excessive appettite at times.

Thank you Carmen! Yes indeed, when I first was told through an electroderm type of test that I was allergic to wheat, I had no idea. But when I stray from the no wheat diet, first it's the overwhelming tiredness - like after lunch when you are trying to work - but can barely keep the eyes open. Then the smelliest rolling f*rts, and soon after, the explosive exit.

Far more people have allergies to wheat than have any idea that is what their problem is. My niece's new husband has a history of not feeling well, napping a lot and finally got a diagnosis in this little podunk town - of celiac - from one of the new doctors.

TPTB fight hard to keep the good fats away from us. That whole cholesterol hoopla is the biggest hoax of the century. A cholesterol moderately over 200 is protective for people in old age, esp. women. Lo-fat is fast death. And vegetable oils are new-fangled products that help destroy our health with high levels of Omega-6. Wild fish are important for the DHA which is a must have for proper eye and nervous system development, yet almost all the fatty fish now are contaminated with too much mercury. So sardines, herring and small fish are the best bet there or a properly processed and purified fish oil. Cod liver oil is a good bet for the winter in the Northern climes where you have more breast cancer because of low levels of Vitamin D.

And that China study - well it's not good science. I'll have to look up the particulars on that. I won't waste my time reading that book.

I was reading in the online Dr. Price book that in some cultures it is a disgrace to have children closer than 3 years apart. The men are to abstain from their wives and give them a chance to regain their strength and nutrient status so that the next child will not be miscarried, stillbirth or deformed.

The rest are quoted excerpts from:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib...e/price17.html
"I have found similar examples in several of the modernized primitive racial stocks. The severity of the disturbing factors may be different under different circumstances. Drought, industrial depression, unemployment, and the like, all have their influence. In Fig. 110 will be seen three Maori children of New Zealand; the second child is smaller in stature than the third and gives more evidence of facial injury. While his older sister and younger brother have normal feet, his quite severe disturbance in facial growth is associated with club feet."



"Deformities of the feet associated with facial deformity have been found in several modernized groups of primitive racial stocks. A typical case among the modernized Indians of Peru is shown in Fig. 111. The face of this boy shows abnormal development with narrowing of the upper arch and displacement of the teeth. This is associated with gross deformity of one foot and shortening of the leg. He lives in the high country. This phase is strikingly illustrated in Fig. 112 where the face is very badly injured and both feet are seriously clubbed. This boy is a Coastal Indian."


FIG. 111. This boy is a modernized Indian in the high Sierra of Peru. Note the disturbed development of the face associated with the deformity of one foot.


FIG. 112. This is a modernized coastal Indian of Ecuador. Note the serious facial and dental arch distortion associated with club feet.

The serious expressions of physical deformities which we found had occurred in several primitive racial stocks,after they have become modernized sufficiently to be using the foods of our modern civilization, are occurring in our modern American families with equal severity and great frequency.

[A study by] Dr. D. P. Murphy, of the University of Pennsylvania. [see link for specifics]. In concluding one of his reports he states:

Miscarriages, stillbirths, and premature births occurred more often than would be expected by chance in the pregnancies immediately preceding and immediately following the pregnancy which resulted in the birth of a defective child, and less often than would be expected by chance in the remaining pregnancies. Miscarriage, stillbirth, and premature birth occurred most often in the pregnancy immediately preceding that of the defective child.

From the above observations, it is concluded that the birth of a congenitally malformed child may be only one expression of a prolonged decrease in functional reproductive activity, the other expressions being miscarriages, stillbirths, and premature births.

It is suggested that the obstetrician has unusual reason to suspect the possible existence of a congenital malformation in the pregnancy which follows immediately after a miscarriage, a stillbirth, or a premature birth.

[Karen]

So the moral of that story above, for modern folks - if you are having trouble conceiving, or having a live birth - please wait 2-3 years to try again. Both the husband and the wife should partake of the best nutrition and the good Vitamin A and D rich fats that cannot be found in the plant world.

[Humble Janitor]

A quick question about those photos: How do we know that they're actual science and not just quackery? They seem kind of racist in nature. Where are the deformed white people?

[Karen]

Originally Posted by Humble Janitor

A quick question about those photos: How do we know that they're actual science and not just quackery? They seem kind of racist in nature. Where are the deformed white people?

Dr. Weston Price, as explained previously, was a dentist in the 1930's with an intense curiosity about why all of a sudden his white (and probably other) patients were more sickly with a mouthful of dental decay in the adults and children with crooked and crowded teeth. He wondered - did it have anything to do with the new-fangled diet of white flour, white sugar and hydrogenated oils? Processed, canned, and devitalized foods of commerce?

So he embarked on an adventure to study the world's healthiest peoples. The ones still eating their traditional diets (as explained previously) were healthy and vibrant, with physical, mental and moral perfection. They were in isolated locations - there was only a hiking trail into the Swiss mountain village. But modern foods were encroaching, and their health was going in the dumps like all the Americans were. Price took a new-fangled invention with him and he and his wife took pictures, meticulous documentation and produced this research.

[Karen]

Originally Posted by Humble Janitor

A quick question about those photos: How do we know that they're actual science and not just quackery? They seem kind of racist in nature. Where are the deformed white people?

"His investigations took him to isolated Swiss villages and a windswept island off the coast of Scotland. He studied traditional Eskimos, Indian tribes in Canada and the Florida Everglades, Southsea islanders, Aborigines in Australia, Maoris in New Zealand, Peruvian and Amazonian Indians and tribesmen in Africa. ... The photographs Price took, the descriptions of what he found and his startling conclusions are preserved in a book considered a masterpiece by many nutrition researchers who followed in Price's footsteps: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. Yet this compendium of ancestral wisdom is all but unknown to today's medical community and modern parents."

As posted previously:
To read the rest of this great article with pictures taken by Dr. Price
http://westonaprice.org/tour/vegtourindex.html
and click article 3 in the sidebar.

Here's a link to that online book, published in 1939.
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...7&postcount=46

[Karen]

Do you want beautiful happy children with broad faces and a full set of lovely straight teeth? Dr. Price discovered the answer in the 1930s. And until recently his work has been largely ignored!

The eggs in the woman and the sperm in the man must have adequate nutrition to develop properly and then the mother must have the needed minerals, fat-soluble vitamins and activators provided for her and her child during pregnancy and lactation. Eat real and fresh foods instead of processed and devitalized junk. Shop primarily in the perimeter of the grocery store where most things do not have a label with a list of unpronounceable ingredients.

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib...e/price17.html

FIG. 98. These four Melanesian boys born on different islands look like brothers but are not blood relations. They illustrate the role of heredity in reproducing racial type. Heredity, however, can only operate normally when the germ cells have not been injured.


99. These four Polynesian girls live on different islands and are not related though they look like sisters. They record their racial type by undisturbed heredity.

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by Carmen

...I am finding myself more and more allergic to bread...

This rings a bell with me. I have read that grains and seeds are hard to digest because of the protective coating mother nature provides them with, and that soaking or sprouting before using them in food helps. I've started ordering sprouted grain flour on the internet and baking my own bread with it.

[mudra]

Originally Posted by [B

Karen[/B];139977]
Vegetarianism
Posted: June, 30, 2007

What is your and Janet's opinion on vegetarianism? To me the unnecessary mass slaughter of animals for food is no better than what the puppet masters do to humans. If you eat meat (that includes fish) you are ingesting all the suffing and misery of the animal. If humans were meant to eat meat then we would have sharp teeth and claws and we would be able to digest raw meat and fur like real carnivorous animals. Humans can get all the protein they need from plants, like spirlina and maca.

Rareheart can't post on Avalon at the moment but he wrote this to me and I relay it to you :

My answer to that is simple, we have no need for claws or fangs, we have developed trigger fingers and cookware.
Also, very simply, from our mother Earth's perspective, every living flora and fauna to inhabit her glorious domain has been issued from her and returned to her at the end of it's granted grace period. She cares not what each one consumes while upon her...as everything is equal in her 'eyes'.
No one seems to wonder what mother Earth thinks/feels yet most agree she is alive.


Kindness
mudra

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by Karen

Janet's Reply: The energy fields of vegetarians are weaker than those of flesh-eaters.

I do eat eggs. I wonder whether this is sufficient to have a healthy energy field...

[Karen]

Originally Posted by seashore

I do eat eggs. I wonder whether this is sufficient to have a healthy energy field...

The ones I have the most concern for are the 100% committed vegans, with zero consumption of anything from an animal over periods of years and decades.

From what I can tell, as long as you include dairy, or eggs or fish, or even insects to get you the fat-soluble nutrients that are not present in plants, I don't have as much concern.

The neurological damage from lack of B12 can take 10-12 years to manifest as tingling in the extremities, and by then it is irreversible. The B12 analogues in spirulina etc. are not the same B12 that humans need.

I think what ever would support a healthy body would support a healthy energy field.

Eggs from a good clean/natural source are a powerhouse full of excellent nutrition, especially in the raw form. You can make a salad dressing with raw eggs. And I will see if I can fetch the link from the very excellent http://mercola.com site on how to make sure the eggs are safe to eat raw.