Universal Service for ages 18-25

[Dantheman62]

I think it wouldn't be so bad, maybe they would learn something about civil defense, instead of learning how to tap a keg, or do beer bongs. LOL!

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

I think it wouldn't be so bad, maybe they would learn something about civil defense, instead of learning how to tap a keg, or do beer bongs. LOL!

They'd learn plenty about how to lose their humanity, become cold blooded killers, beat "islamic terrorists" with the freedom stick and other such great educational stuff.

[Dantheman62]

Originally Posted by AndyH

They'd learn plenty about how to lose their humanity, become cold blooded killers, beat "islamic terrorists" with the freedom stick and other such great educational stuff.

Oh c'mon it's civil defense, more like community service, not military. It would do them some good.

[TranceAm]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

Oh c'mon it's civil defense, more like community service, not military. It would do them some good.

There are a lot of behavior patterns from which people say that would do other people some good! Make them all mandatory?

Do them some good, is to learn to volunteer for it...
But mandatory? It is just placing another group of society under direct or indirect command of Ceasar and then at his discretion..

[Dantheman62]

HaHa, the funny thing is, if it was voluntary nobody would show up!

[TranceAm]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

HaHa, the funny thing is, if it was voluntary nobody would show up!

So why the stealing of lifetime (The real Wealth of people.) from one (Without paying for it.) and then redistribution of the efforts milked out of that stolen lifetime to others?

Making/enforcing a law, doesn't make it 'good".. It only makes it lawful.

There is quite a cold shill surrounding your aura Dan.
Work for the Man?

[Dantheman62]

Originally Posted by TranceAm

So why the stealing of lifetime (The real Wealth of people.) from one (Without paying for it.) and then redistribution of the efforts milked out of that stolen lifetime to others?

Making/enforcing a law, doesn't make it 'good".. It only makes it lawful.

There is quite a cold shill surrounding your aura Dan.
Work for the Man?

No HaHa, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with working for the man, so to speak, but it's only 3 months and young people are soft these days, they need to get their hands dirty for their community. My aura is nice and warm and fuzzy, oh wait, that's the blanket wrapped around me. lol!

[TranceAm]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

No HaHa, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with working for the man, so to speak, but it's only 3 months and young people are soft these days, they need to get their hands dirty for their community. My aura is nice and warm and fuzzy, oh wait, that's the blanket wrapped around me. lol!

Where do you get that young people are "soft" these days?
I had just one member of my family leave for Iraq in spite of being promised to never being send there... I think with the Info at hand, it is not that intelligent, but "soft" I can't call a man that makes a decision to serve his country. And there are many like him.
Others don't go and serve, are they "soft"? Are they less "Manly"?

"They need to get their hands dirty for their community?"
Where do you get these ideas?

Where is it stated in the contract between Country and Population, that the duties of a United States Citizen is getting dirty hands for their community?
Why is that community sitting on their thumbs and not preparing for any and every thing themselves?
What about politicians not enforcing war or their ideas of "Freedom" on others, so them young clean handed people aren't forced into situations they should never be in?
What about them politicians who want to put everything on the Free Market because that could do the jobs much better? Yes it does everything much better but at a higher price then slaves that can't say no!
And it is sad, when a population has nothing else to offer to the altar of government then their children to slavelabor to get things done.. Or enforcing the cost of their spending habits on the children of their children because they couldn't say no to their government.

"Yes we can" + "Believe in Change"
It is a free country, you can believe in any and everything.
Although according to the first the Government isn't allowed to start a religion!
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, ...."

Ok, The abyss, is just after that hollow tree to the left.. Just keep going.

[ghglenn]

Hitler Youth?

[davefla73]

Originally Posted by ghglenn

Hitler Youth?

i was about to say the same thing! but the where in better shape then ours are lol.

[minimeister]

I haven't heard anyone bring up yet that the proposed volunteer force is a remade perversion of the constitutional militia. Remade because the stated purpose of the Obama squad is exactly what the original intent of the militia was. Perverted because while the constitutional militia promotes true community strength and independence the new initiative is designed to enslave. Otherwise why would they not use the original mechanism?

[clarkkent]

are people seriously defending this??

even neocons and bush didnt MAKE you join, im not an obama hater but this guy Rahm is a serious pro isreal warhawk (asked by tim russert if he'd vote for the war even knowing thered be a huge loss of life and there were no weapons of mass destruction, he said "yes")

politics as usual, all administrations suck--- universal service would be one step more towrds fascism, not thanks rahm.

[clarkkent]

"basic training, civil defense preparation" use your common sense, just because the article doesnt state weapons, what bootcamp basic training have you heard of doesnt inclue that...you couldnt "find it"...huh?

he's sugar coating all this garbage--in israel they dont have you join the military without training in weapons etc.

its military bootcamp folks, look beyond the brainwashing language.

im really blown away people on this forum are trying to defend this just because it comes from obama's camp.

ask yourself if youd like to be FORCED to learn how to shoot weapons, truly the brainwashing in this country is all pervasive. wow.

[371]

Originally Posted by clarkkent

"basic training, civil defense preparation" use your common sense, just because the article doesnt state weapons, what bootcamp basic training have you heard of doesnt inclue that...you couldnt "find it"...huh?

he's sugar coating all this garbage--in israel they dont have you join the military without training in weapons etc.

its military bootcamp folks, look beyond the brainwashing language.

im really blown away people on this forum are trying to defend this just because it comes from obama's camp.

ask yourself if youd like to be FORCED to learn how to shoot weapons, truly the brainwashing in this country is all pervasive. wow.

If this was an idea of the Bush administration it wouldn't change a thing for me. I think this is a good idea, as long as it's VOLUNTARY. Now I know that's not what they're saying but its a proposal and will never pass in it's current form if it ever does at all.

If it was COMPULSORY I'd totally be against it- and yeah I know that's what the proposal says. I'm defending the general civil defense training idea, not this specific proposal to clarify.

And Clark, I DO understand what you're saying. It doesn't say weapons training but it doesn't say bootcamp either. If there was a significant physical aspect to this training you can bet that a good percentage of Americans wouldn't cut it. And this isn't MILITARY training, it's CIVIL. That's what the National Guard are for.

But I think we're debating two different points so I guess it doesn't really matter.

EDIT- BTW I TOTALLY agree with ChooseYourLifeNow that:

This sort of idea should be brought about by community efforts not federal

[Orion11]

Originally Posted by clarkkent

"basic training, civil defense preparation" use your common sense, just because the article doesnt state weapons, what bootcamp basic training have you heard of doesnt inclue that...you couldnt "find it"...huh?

he's sugar coating all this garbage--in israel they dont have you join the military without training in weapons etc.

its military bootcamp folks, look beyond the brainwashing language.

im really blown away people on this forum are trying to defend this just because it comes from obama's camp.

ask yourself if youd like to be FORCED to learn how to shoot weapons, truly the brainwashing in this country is all pervasive. wow.

Hey clark,

this isnt the first time you have opened my eyes,
coming from someone else i might not take it to heart so much....lol

but you are right.

thank you.

[Operator]

Hi,

Just to be short: "Basic training ?"
Most ways to force uniformity lead to fascism ... simple as that.

Cheers

[clarkkent]

Originally Posted by Orion11

Hey clark,

this isnt the first time you have opened my eyes,
coming from someone else i might not take it to heart so much....lol

but you are right.

thank you.

didnt mean to be harsh, language can be very deceptive, i just had an argument with my roomate about this exact topic--he said "whats wrong with community service- thats great!"

and if thats all it was i certainly would agree, just like the military being stationed here in the states, they wrap it in nice language like "disaster preparedness, crowd control etc" but all you have to do is realize they always camoflauge bad things in language.

heres an excerpt from a good article

"George Orwell warned that sloppy language leads to foolish thoughts. One of the worst aspects of our discourse these days is how rarely our political language is used to express honest and clear thought. Of course, part of the fault lies with our schooling which tends to reward the complexity of thought and the use of obscure words. Indeed, there are those like William Buckley, Jr. who have incredibly large vocabularies and also take pleasure in using extremely obscure words to show how erudite they are. Yet, one must agree that the real problem with our political discourse these days is the purposeful use of words to lie and mislead. The result is a political environment that is dangerously toxic.

As George Orwell said in his excellent essay on this topic, the tendency to use unclear language can be a flaw found in any political persuasion. Humans tend to generalize and stereotype which leads to faulty conclusions. For example, it is wrong to say that the poor are lazy. While it might be true that some poor people are lazy, many of the poor work extremely hard for very little gain. Clear and precise language leads to a better understanding of reality and provides a better basis for devising policies regarding the poor. But the real danger according to Orwell comes when people purposely pervert language, because their goal is to mislead people and deny them the ability to make decisions based on accurate information.

The top strategists of the right-wing have used deceptive language in their pursuit of power for several decades. They have spent much money and energy putting together think tanks and focus groups to find ways to “sell” their message. And for years they have used language to demonize Democrats as a way to gain control of the government. Newt Gingrich even produced a booklet that recommended words to use when describing Republicans (strong, moral, citizen, protector) and how to describe their opponents. Some of the words that Gingrich recommended for describing Democrats are: bizarre, corrupt, incompetent, selfish, traitors. And after 9/11 the right-wing radicals gloated that they had won the battle for the hearts and minds of the American public. "


--now keep in mind this rahm guy is a democrat, but in politics there's very little seperation from the republicorp and the democorp, theyre all basically beholden to the same corporate interests (and esoteric ones)

(EDIT- i did look up the actual book quote and it varies slightly--SO i might have misinterpreted the data based on the wording of "basic training" AND civil defense--apparently the book doesnt quite separate "basic training" and basic CIVIL defense training--heres the excerpt "All Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 should be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic civil defense training and community service. This is not a draft — nor is it military. Young people will be trained not as soldiers, but simply as citizens who understand their responsibilities in the event of natural disaster, epidemic, or terrorist attack." so depending on which source is correct, there may or maynot be guns involved--if so , my bad -i was reacting to altered text!)

[Jenny]

As all Obama and/or political threads go to Off Topic, this one is moved to Off Topic as well.

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

Oh c'mon it's civil defense, more like community service, not military. It would do them some good.

Community service would be visiting old folks homes and having a chat or helping out at the homless shelter.
This is just training them for what's to come, just as TranceAM said, the Hitler youth were all told the same old story too. But this is America and that sort of thing doesn't happen here.

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. It's straight out of Sun Tzu's book as far as I'm concerned.

[371]

Originally Posted by AndyH

They'd learn plenty about how to lose their humanity, become cold blooded killers, beat "islamic terrorists" with the freedom stick and other such great educational stuff.

That's not about what civil defense is about at all. It about organizing on a local level should an emergency occur.

Could this be perverted and used for evil? Of course, but personally I think more people knowing how to orgainze and take care of themselves and their communities is a good thing.

[Dantheman62]

Originally Posted by 371

That's not about what civil defense is about at all. It about organizing on a local level should an emergency occur.

Could this be perverted and used for evil? Of course, but personally I think more people knowing how to orgainze and take care of themselves and their communities is a good thing.

Thank you, well said

[Orion11]

Originally Posted by 371

That's not about what civil defense is about at all. It about organizing on a local level should an emergency occur.

Could this be perverted and used for evil? Of course, but personally I think more people knowing how to orgainze and take care of themselves and their communities is a good thing.

Yes,

for the most part i think it would be beneficial,
and, even if they did want to use it for malevolent reasons,..

do we think all the people would really still follow and be a part of it?

I dont.

Not the majority of them.
I dont think this is about militarizing everything,.

but, I think that if we all took a few short months to learn how to survive and help each other survive in any given circumstances, would be good.

i mean, look at how many americans really are clueless as to what to do should something really happen...
many many many of them would be absolutely lost and terrified.

if the people see it being used for the wrong reasons,
i have a bit of faith in the people that they would not go along with it.

its not like its boot camp and preparing for war, right?

in times of a struggle, which we are cleary in now,
dont we think it would be good to accept a little responsibility ? to help everyone? I dunno, but it seems worth it. unless of course i am totally off on all of this.

[clarkkent]

Originally Posted by Orion11

Yes,

for the most part i think it would be beneficial,
and, even if they did want to use it for malevolent reasons,..

do we think all the people would really still follow and be a part of it?

I dont.

Not the majority of them.
I dont think this is about militarizing everything,.

but, I think that if we all took a few short months to learn how to survive and help each other survive in any given circumstances, would be good.

i mean, look at how many americans really are clueless as to what to do should something really happen...
many many many of them would be absolutely lost and terrified.

if the people see it being used for the wrong reasons,
i have a bit of faith in the people that they would not go along with it.

its not like its boot camp and preparing for war, right?

having people learn how to use an m16 and obey orders isnt teaching them how to plant or farm or live off the land and be self sufficient, the boy scouts would do a btter job at that.

as far as "americans" being that out of touch, well newsflash; were not any worse off than any western country if disaster strikes.

if you want forced military service move to switzerland or israel

[371]

Originally Posted by clarkkent

as far as "americans" being that out of touch, well newsflash; were not any worse off than any western country if disaster strikes.

The problem is many Americans have the false notion that the world owes them something.

[Dantheman62]

Ah applause!, hand clapping, and more hand clapping! well said! ORION11