CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark

[milk and honey]

Hi Clark... a few related questions for you.

Are you a materialist or do you at least suspect that there are higher planes of reality including, ultimately, our origin in planes of spirit?

If you do know or suspect the multi-dimensional reality then could that be what Jesus the Christ and Guatama the Buddha (and others) were really talking about? At least in language that could be understood by people in a certain state of consciousness yet interpretable by "he who has ears"? ... And that those truths are progressively revealed and further elaborated upon over subsequent centuries? If they were talking about personal and universal multi-dimensional reality, could they have been seriously misinterpreted either through ignorance or by design?

These are the important questions for me and so even though i was brought up in the fundamentalist catholic church (until i was 13) much later i looked into the bible and the buddhist and vedic teachings and discovered what they really meant. At first, that discovery was helped along by aware people who explained the obvious to me, yet my soul confirmed. I realised that all that worship of an external God or gods and dependence on an external savior -- through the mediatorship of an external priesthood -- is a power construct calculated for obvious reasons of control, to distort the true inner relationship of the individual to the universe.

Once apon a time the church would torture and kill you if you dared question their false interpretations of the teachings of Jesus and other biblical personalities. Nowadays the powers controlling religion can only heavily polarise their flock against anything that could burst their own bubble while condemning the rest of us to hell, as usual. For that relative impotence on their part, we can thank the protestant (as a first step) and American revolutions for the civil and religious liberties that allowed us to say no to them.

But rust never sleeps. More insidiously, the 'old money' is simultaneously sponsoring an avalanche of new age fluff to counteract whatever progressive revelation has been given over the past 140 years or so. Their obvious motto since they shangheid Jesus has been... If you can't lick'em, smear your garments in horse**** and join'em.

Naturally my POV is premised on the fact that there is a true brotherhood of spiritual adepts who've been working for ages to raise the consciousness of humanity. Many of them have incarnated with us. I know they exist and that that is their passion and work.

But they (and we) have always been deliberately opposed by a black brotherhood who try to prevent our knowledge of the multidimensional self and universe. Now that they can no longer prevent that knowledge (due to the work of the true brotherhood) they instead concede certain truths yet poison them with their own spin wherever possible. Almost every point of truth is twisted with a counterpoint which vaguely resembles it but which is calculated to decieve the seeker.

It's a cliche for sure Clark Kent, but .... drum roll... 'don't throw the baby out with the bathwater'. What the black brotherhood did to the person and teachings of Jesus, they are doing again in the present to misrepresent the teachings of the brotherhood of which he is a part. While there are souls in the material plane who can potentially awaken to spiritual reality there will always be opposition to that awakening.

This is the battle of armageddon. It goes on within the consciousness of man (between the soul and the ego) and it rages externally between the spiritual people on earth and those dedicated to eradicating our spiritual expression from the face of the earth. There's only one way to escape...

Knock knock
who's there?
armageddon
armaggedon who?
armageddon outa here!

Self- transcendence is the true message of Jesus. It's the only way outa here.

[fox222]

true christianity has been suppressed and perverted ever since the 3rd century. In the last 50 years it has been increasingly used as a business. Except in country's in which it was repressed or in the minority like the Middle East and Russia. Christ's message is still the most important the world has received. Love your enemies and turn the other cheek.

Too bad it's been getting such a bad name lately. Many false teachers.

I don't practice any kind of religion and I view anybody spewing off at the mouth as a danger to my soul.
I agree with you Clark...I won't even finish reading someones post or thread if it has religious overtones.

Sometimes the most shallow river makes the most noise.

[Jenny]

At the age of 14 my parents let me choose for myself and I stopped going to church all together.

Being raised catholic in the south of Holland it was all about socializing and enjoying the theatre in church. I love the scent of incense used there and I still have some of that very pure good incense.

I have a very helthy distrust to all =ism's. May they be a religion or a ideology.
I stay at the outer edges of it, learn from it, observe , but I don't get sucked in.

It is not just religion that is taking the better of individuals but more so all sorts of convictions and ingrained emotional driven psychological behaviour.

It is as debiliating as religion or some ideology.

Jenny

[Ashatav]

The religions are a first step in the spiritual career. Then you pass to the personal religion made by whatever you think and feel it's right.

---0---

In the Jehoshua thing I have enought proofs (phisical ones) that he Is what the cristians says he is, read if you know spanish "Caballo de Troya" (in several lenguages but not in english hehehe) or urantia book, two interesting sources to look.

Other thing. The luciferian illuminati wants to strongly eliminate him from our minds and culture so that's makes me at least interested why they want so much that if he isn't what the cristians say. It's odd, but chek out the Leo Zagami's camelot enterview, the world aparently is more than the TV and our teachers (persons in this system like us) shows to us.

So, cheers!

[macleodmunro]

I belive a balance is needed.

We are all living very different lives, and had very different upbringings.

We all bring our own unique perspective to the table.

I used to be a christian (now i've seen the light, ironicly)
I spent 4 years going to a very spiritual christian church, but i eventually realized that i could not think for myself.
These were very good hearted nice people, but they were stuck beliving nonsence like god wrote bible or jesus created the universe.
I never felt right worshiping jesus. Like it was an insult to the actual creater (like god or the heavenly father or whatever you want to call him).

You can understand people ignoring comments with a religous theme if they've had it rammed down their throat from an early age by people that don't know what there talking about.
You also would expect people who haven't had any religous experiance in life to find such comments hard to take seriously.

I don't think we should blame the religous teachings for the way humanity (or illuminati) has used them to control the masses.

I look back on my christian days now and think what a brainwashed fool i was.

[clarkkent]

Originally Posted by milk and honey

Hi Clark... a few related questions for you.

Are you a materialist or do you at least suspect that there are higher planes of reality including, ultimately, our origin in planes of spirit?

If you do know or suspect the multi-dimensional reality then could that be what Jesus the Christ and Guatama the Buddha (and others) were really talking about?

This is the battle of armageddon. It goes on within the consciousness of man (between the soul and the ego) and it rages externally between the spiritual people on earth and those dedicated to eradicating our spiritual expression from the face of the earth. There's only one way to escape...
e!

Self- transcendence is the true message of Jesus. It's the only way outa here.

since you asked here goes,
first off i disagree that we need to "escape" here..i read a similiar thing from a bloodline insider who views earth as a prison. ive found that illuminati and christians are bound together from both their inceptions....i dont come close to subscibing to either of them.

ill never "be" anything -a mason, a christian, a jew, a "new ager"

also with enough poking around in history you'll find a lot of these religious figures are almagmations of myth and not one person. i really dont think the illuminati want to eradicate christianity seeing as that they control it and more blood has been spilt in jesus's name than anyone on the planet.

so while i agree with the "do unto others" and all that- it, and all religions are just systems of brainwashing and control (again my opinion)
if you can divorce yourself from it and take the good spiritual knowledge than thats great, its also rare.

personally my own backround is in science and logic...i came to a spiritual outlook through quantum physics, seeing that we indeed all are "one" from a scientific POV. i do believe this is one small vibratory fraction of the multidimensional universe, and that we have a "consciousness" that exists past and beyond our material bodies. i believe in evolution of the "spirit" you could say, im also well aware that our organic material 3D brains can only grasp so much at this stage. its beyond humans mind to fully grasp the larger whole of "reality"

i also look into anthropology and history (though thats controlled as well)
but the point is. the conclusion ive come to is that "civilization" is the problem. humans didnt need salvationist religions for hundreds of thousands of years. the fact is small tribes live in balance with nature and dont suffer from all the ills of society (random murders,psychological disorders like depression etc) they believe in spirits and whatnot but they dont understand the concept of needing to be "saved' earth isnt a prison for them, it simply "is"

all this talk of reptillians, atlantis, lemuria, civilizations on mars, adam, eve, jesus etc. its all very NEW. if atlantis existed - it was supposed to have existed 12-13,ooo years ago...thats VERY recent in actual HUMAN history.

i dont believe in "armageddon" or the "great battle between light and dark"
i believe that yes there is good and bad but its always been this way, since the dawn of civilization its always been the very FEW who control the very MANY. salvationist religions didnt pop up till there was a need for them, till peoples existence was so ****** they felt they NEEDED to be saved.

i believe were going through the baby steps of being in a civilization and perhaps we'll make it through this difficult steps (clearly evolved ET's made it through the growing pains were having, so it IS possible- i used to think we'd just wipe ourselves out from stupidity...ET's prove its at least possible to get past this stage)

anyhow, please dont try and combat some of these opinions of mine and give me links to info that jesus was a real person etc. i choose to believe what makes sense for me , and i dont believe in anything so much that i can be manipulated by it to go against my nature.

there you have it , my opinion. i just wanted to see if the vast majority at avalon was christian, seeing that every time i click "new posts" i tend to see "bible" "god" "jesus" or "satan" "angels". its my opinion that people with a belief "system" need to have one or incorporate a new one into their old religious paradigm (thats why it seems like many former christians have taken up ET's and "end times" and substituted or added it to their previous paradigm)

again just my observation and opinion, not an argument

[milk and honey]

Just to clarify my own POV...

I agree with you CK that no-one need identify themselves as being anything... christian, buddhist, jew or mason etc. We each are a human being who in essence is a spiritual being. I can say that with certainty. But we can find reflections of that basic truth in the cultural-religious teachings of all societies throughout history because people who've made that self discovery have shared it with others and their lives and teachings have been passed on. The problems arose when the state colluded with the priest classes to control the people with distortions of those basic spiritual truths.

Religion, even when it's symbology is properly understood, is just a conceptual framework that describes the individual and his/her place in the universe. I am so non-attached to religianity that i am just as happy to use or not use religious symbols when discussing the subjects we cover here. Problems only arise for people who are carrying the baggage associated with these religious terms and symbols due to previous misrepresentations and distortions made by christian fundamentalists. Anyone willing to look past that can find eternal truths in scripture. These truths are not the sole property of religion or science. They are just plain truths that are increasingly being re-discovered and re-presented in various disciplines including science and metaphysics.

No-one has to 'believe' anything, just uncover truth wherever it can be found without fear or loathing of the form in which it appears. If christianity for example does not represent the true teachings of Jesus (and older books) then it deserves to be clarified for posterity imo. So i personally don't feel the need to run a mile from the biblical symbols just because church and state have colluded to dumb down the masses with a deliberate distortion of them. And i'm comfortable with Jesus and Guatama and with referring to them occasionally to make a point.

Case in point CK,,, you were negatively triggered by my use of the term "battle of armageddon" like it absolutely has to be associated with everything that peevs you about the fundamentalist christian version of it. Yet after dissing the term "battle of armaggedon" you went on to describe exactly what i was saying about it. A battle ("of armageddon" if you will allow) has raged between people for ages. Like you, i reject the narrow fundamentalist interpretation of a "few years war" right about now and i simply pointed out what you yourself are saying about conflict. Although in that "battle" i also included the interior conflict that each soul must win in order to be spiritually whole. A fractured soul is a magnet for conflict and is easilly manipulated.

Most references to Atlantis and Lemuria are relatively new (aprox the last 140 years or so) but those civilisations existed for tens of thousands of years (and more) and only relatively recently disappeared around 12 thousand years ago with the sinking of Poseid. But before they sunk they reached a high level of civilisation including very high tech accomplishments, some of which we have only recently attained again. These were based primarily on free energy and anti-gravity technologies.

The evolution of souls which we're all a part of, is going through continual cycles of high spiritual and material attainments (not necessarilly always simultaneously together) followed by cycles of darkness in the human psyche with it's attendant savagery in relations with each other. This cycle keeps repeating but the individual can transcend it as some people have already done. While this is not really an "escape" per se, the ultimate self-transcendence does place the soul (vibrationally) beyond the vulnerabilities associated with the purely materialistic expression of the mass consciousness.

The "escape" i alluded to relates to the fantastic expectations of people who rely on an external savior figure (either UFO occupants or Jesus depending on one's preferred illusion) and not to my own perceptions of it. That is why i re-inforced the true teaching of Jesus (not a physical "rapture" scenario) that relates to self-transcendence as the only means of attaining "the kingdom of heaven" or "salvation" (self-elevation) because it is a spiritual state of consciousness discoverable within oneself (according to Jesus).

On the subject of religion as it relates to humanity's many problems, you might know that true spirituality has been very rare throughout history and that war has been the normal state of affairs on planet earth for hundreds of thousands of years. The leaders were most often corrupt yet they often represented the passions of the people they ruled. Your historical ideal of communities living in harmony with themselves and each other has been very rare indeed. Those communities had their priests and shamans (by any other name) yet very few of them attained spiritual self-mastery. And for the lack of enlightened guidance and true examples of selfless service, very few community members attained the resolution of inner (and therefore outer) conflict. Not saying there were no good examples among the people but for the most part humanity has failed so far to live the golden rule. But i believe we can and i hope we can build societies based on fairness and respect.

[whitecrow]

Originally Posted by milk and honey

It's a cliche for sure Clark Kent, but .... drum roll... 'don't throw the baby out with the bathwater'...Self- transcendence is the true message of Jesus. It's the only way outa here.

Very good thread. It's great to see so many smart, sincere people really examining their spiritual and religious beliefs in an atmosphere where there is no coercion and no preaching. Not much, anyway.

There are several main concepts that my thoughts about religion rest on:

1. Mankind has always had religion of some sort, therefore I conclude that it is a natural part of our makeup and something that we need.

2. The history of religion shows a continual reaching out by mankind for the Divine, but perhaps more importantly a continual reaching out for the hearts of man by the Divine Principle.

3. Established, organized religion always starts out full of rapturous enthusiasm and always degrades into politics, dogma and control.

I was a Quaker for many years, and I am now officially a Bahá'í although I no longer practice any formal religion. Each time I entered into a study of the spiritual base of a religion, in the end I was left wanting more than that Faith alone could offer. All religions contain deceptions and seek to contain the human potential, and are therefore false teachings. All religions are also true, because there it is that we find the deepest and most abiding comforts and revelations concerning our origins and potential, and the meaning of our existence, if we have the eyes to see, the ears to hear.

The questions I would ask my pastors have no answer. I would ask how it was that all mankind was doomed because of the action of one man, and how the answer to salvation could have been planted in the life of one obscure man. I would ask, if it's improper to take the Lord's name in vain, why can I say "God bless you" and not "God damn you?" In neither instance have we any control over what God does, so they are both in vain....right?

Oh yes, they loved me in church. I finally realized that those who take God's name are those who call themselves by that name, whatever they call God...be they Christians, Buddhists or whatever, if their character does not match the name, they do so in vain.

It is preposterous to believe that God can be held within a steeplehouse, or that he (she/they/it) is impressed by them in any way. It is equally mistaken to believe that because religion is corrupt it must be totally false. All religions hold truths that coincide with one another, and which are so radical they would completely alter the nature of human affairs, if only they were put into practice. This is why, as soon as a religion grows to the point that it becomes influential, it must be either eliminated or corrupted by politicians.

The most fundamental truth, taught by every religion, is known to us as the Golden Rule: treat other folks the way you hope they'd treat you.

Love people. Love God, whatever that word means to you. Love life. Don't worry about what you can't control. Use the gifts you have received for good. Be humble. That's the essence of religion, and there's no sense making it much more complicated than that.

[Orion Morris]

Phillip- or ctophil

What about the old question, if Yahweh is your version of the almighty god, then did he create evil?

Opiate by Tool

Choices always were a problem for you.
What you need is someone strong to guide you.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow,
what you need is someone strong to guide you..
like me, like me, like me, like me

If you want to get your soul to heaven,
trust in me .
Now don't you judge or question.
You are broken now ,
but faith can heal you.
Just do everything I tell you to do.

Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow.
What you need is someone strong to guide you.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow.
Let me lay my holy hand upon you.

My Gods will
becomes me.
When he speaks out,
he speaks through me.
He has needs
like I do.
We both want
to rape you.

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

Phillip- or ctophil

What about the old question, if Yahweh is your version of the almighty god, then did he create evil?

Opiate by Tool

Choices always were a problem for you.
What you need is someone strong to guide you.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow,
what you need is someone strong to guide you..
like me, like me, like me, like me

If you want to get your soul to heaven,
trust in me .
Now don't you judge or question.
You are broken now ,
but faith can heal you.
Just do everything I tell you to do.

Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow.
What you need is someone strong to guide you.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow.
Let me lay my holy hand upon you.

My Gods will
becomes me.
When he speaks out,
he speaks through me.
He has needs
like I do.
We both want
to rape you.

Hi Orion Morris,

First of all, Yahweh is His true name. It's just that a lot of people don't know His name through corruption of traditions, Bibles, and so forth. "God" is a position of power. Similar to when you call Him the almighty One or in Hebrew El Shaddai.

Anyways to your question, NO, He did not create evil. In fact, evil is not even something you create. If you read the more corrupted Bibles (all Bibles are corrupted--some more than others, except for the original source, which hardly anybody has access to it), Isaiah 45:7 may sound like He created evil. But that verse only makes a comparison between light and darkness. You see, Yahweh is light and goodness. Evil is the lack of or the absence of Yahweh. The reason why this world is so "evil" and "corrupted" is because Elohim (the mighty one) is far from us spiritually (for those who do not seek him or lacks in faith). Evil is darkness. There is no light in it. There is nothing good about it. Because why? Because Yahweh is the primary source of goodness. When you do or think about something that are not good, you are doing evil. So what is good? Things that bring peace and love in the short and long term to people, the world, and the Kingdom of Heaven itself. There are many fundamentals of goodness most people don't grasp. And that is a whole different topic.

So why do we call Satan and his minions evil? Because they do the opposite of light, which is what? Yahweh Himself. Satan is darkness. Yahweh is light. If you are a follower of darkness, you are doing evil. Period.

Even further, Love is similar in our comparisons. Love is not something you grasp, touch, or feel; unless the result of love yields physical changes. Like evil, it's not something that was created. But if you perform evil deeds, then it will yield physical changes, which are bad consequences at this point. Yahweh is also love. Satan is evil. Not because Satan (Lucifer when he was an Angel) was created with evil in him. He morphed into the essence of evil after he started to stray away from Yahweh by rebellion. Remember again the absence of Yahweh is evil or darkness. Sin is part of evil, but not evil itself.

-Phillip

[Orion Morris]

You make sense...

I kind of believe that what your referring to as Yahweh is a word that we use for the condenced center of energy... oneness.. god... love... any word will do....

I was also wondering if you believe in judgement...
like if I dont pray to god and I have premarital sex all the time am I going to hell?

[Dantheman62]

Don't worry about it OrionM, there is no such place as hell.

[Orion Morris]

haha...
pretty sure its in jail or prison

[Dantheman62]

True!

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

You make sense...

I kind of believe that what your referring to as Yahweh is a word that we use for the condenced center of energy... oneness.. god... love... any word will do....

I was also wondering if you believe in judgement...
like if I dont pray to god and I have premarital sex all the time am I going to hell?

Here is what I wrote in another thread about Hell:

Originally Posted by ctophil

Hi Peer,

Do you want to see Yahweh's mercy? Well, let me show you something. First of all, most people know that the wages of sin is death. I'm sure that you have heard of Hell before in mainstream Christianity. Hell in Hebrew is called Sheol. Sheol means "The Grave." Hell is simply a place to dump dead bodies until when? The first or second resurrection. Hell is NOT and I repeat NOT a place of eternal torment. There's no such thing as a place of eternal torment. There is a place of eternal death. But that's a different issue. That's not what the Bible teaches. The Hell doctrine by Christians is a deceptive lie. Anyways, the point is that when you die, you are just completely dead (you are unconscious or sleeping) until He resurrects you. Then, you will be judged. You will be judged based on your works. Because you (just an example, I'm not saying just you) had little faith in Yahweh or no faith at all. He will give you another chance based on what you did.

To make a long story short, depending on the individual, Yahweh does give you another chance. But in finality, it is still up to you to choose. Remember one thing, He chooses you first before you choose Him. Just think about that for a minute. If He chose you, you were chosen because your future holds much obedience and love for Him.

-Phillip

As you read in my post above, yes there will be judgement. However, Yahweh is very merciful. Still, you must think about your life and see if judgement will be harsh, given a second chance, or will you be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is called eternal death. You will no longer exist. There is no eternal suffering, friend. But I love all human beings (and definitely Yahweh love all as well), and I want everyone to experience the Kingdom of Yahweh with me.

-Phillip

[Orion Morris]

You sound like a morman

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

You sound like a morman

I have explained myself already about who I am. Mormonism is a false religion (just like all others) and a demonic cult. The Mormons may sound "nice" or whatever but they are just as bad as the Catholic Church, Islam, Christian denominations, Buddhism/Hinduism, Masons, and thousands of other false religions that can destroy you.

-Phillip

[Heretic]

at one time I had embraced the idea of hell as spiritual death

total separation from God

as in poof, your soul has been repossessed due to non payment

no more incarnations for you

I now think that the spirit cannot die so hell has kinda lost it's meaning for me ecumenically speaking

I am fond the Alex Collier way of explaining how evil is rewarded too