The ego what is it? How to transcend?

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

We are One, we are not the same.

We are One, we are not the same.

We are One, we are not the same.

One is One in Oneness

all sugar cubes share the same sweetness


but that does not mean you have to let go of I

be you as long as you want

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

God did not create us to disappear into a blob

if something does not really exist in the first place

then how can it disappear


besides God is not blob but Bliss

[14 Chakras]

I've updated this as the last one was a bit dualistic (maybe this one is too? hope not too much)

We have quotes from 'enlightened' people like Sri Ramana Maharshi above.

Now tell me, according to our understanding has this man's ego died?

If so, then according to the theory, there is no individuality beyond human ego, then David Hawkins, Eckhart Tolle, Jesus Christ, Gautama Buddha and Sri Ramana Maharashi are all:

a) Exactly the same.
b) The fullness of the Creator.

If that's not the case, then I highly suggest taking another look at this theory that beyond ego is simply just the fullness of God.

Perhaps, just perhaps, there is infinite co-creation and eternal free will beyond the human ego.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the purpose of Life is for co-creators to awaken to their True identity as individualization's of the infinite and grow their unique perspective in Oneness with All that IS rather than the whole thing just being a dream that wraps and there's this one I in the sky and that's it. Perhaps just perhaps, there is a purpose for creation, and their are fruits of creation, and the fruits of creation are "I"s who choose to BE to Co-create with the Divine in the eternal Now to continually expand and experience All that I's / IS.

Perhaps there is More to the story that either your the ego or your the fullness of God. Perhaps there is much More.

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

Perhaps there is More to the story that either your the ego or your the fullness of God. Perhaps there is much More.

lol how much More


the notion of I will always have a place somewhere in the worlds


when the notion of I is gone

the worlds are gone with it


when there is no trace of I left

then there is only

Being Aware in Bliss


there are of course levels of understanding and illumination

but the Light is One


who is to say

who is Enlightened or not

who is to Judge


the Light Knows

[14 Chakras]

Originally Posted by RedeZra

One is One in Oneness

all sugar cubes share the same sweetness


but that does not mean you have to let go of I

be you as long as you want

No two snowflakes are the same. We're not sugar cubes. We're children of God, and one day, we're going to grow up and BE.



if something does not really exist in the first place

then how can it disappear


besides God is not blob but Bliss

Is God infinite? Is God a creator? If so, then is it possible that God truly wishes to share the kingdom with free willed co-creators, individualization's of itSelf? And if this was God's Will and purpose for creation, should we tell God that he did it wrong and we don't want to make choices or exist?

I believe God created this schoolroom as a platform for the evolution of souls. Not towards sameness, but towards uncovering each our divine individuality eternally Now.

[HORIZONS]

Infinite Individual Expression Of Beingness .. so it is.

Namaste~I honor the truth in you as it is the truth in me.

[14 Chakras]

Originally Posted by HORIZONS

Infinite Individual Expression Of Beingness ..

Yes ~ we've been living under the illusion of non-beingness, of being the ego, the thinker, this is the problem. Our Free Will is not the problem. Our Divine individuality is not the problem. The problem is we've come to identify as the bundle of illusions of separation that have taken on a life of their own as this character we've created, the human ego.

But we're much More than the ego. Our I is real, very real. It's time we stopped associating our Self with the seperate victim consciousness and took up our rightful role as Co-creators in Oneness with I AM.

Each of us has different momentum's, talents, points of view, there is nothing wrong with this, this is in fact Divine. We are the body of God, but we are not the same part. We each have a unique role to play in the awakening of the divine in All Life. Not to disappear, but to awaken.

Here's a riddle I like:

I Am you and you are me and together we are More. But you are you and I Am me, and we are each uniquely I AM.

[HORIZONS]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

Yes ~ we've been living under the illusion of non-beingness, of being the ego, the thinker, this is the problem. Our Free Will is not the problem. Our Divine individuality is not the problem. The problem is we've come to identify as the bundle of illusions of separation that have taken on a life of their own as this character we've created, the human ego.

But we're much More than the ego. Our I is real, very real. It's time we stopped associating our Self with the seperate victim consciousness and took up our rightful role as Co-creators in Oneness with I AM.

Each of us has different momentum's, talents, points of view, there is nothing wrong with this, this is in fact Divine. We are the body of God, but we are not the same part. We each have a unique role to play in the awakening of the divine in All Life. Not to disappear, but to awaken.

Here's a riddle I like:

I Am you and you are me and together we are More. But you are you and I Am me, and we are each uniquely I AM.

Riddle me this: I am the One, yet I am individually expressed. Therefore who am I?

[HORIZONS]

This is a great thread and should be printed out for further study, contemplation and meditation.

The question of the ages: Who am I?

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by HORIZONS

The question of the ages: Who am I?

As Nietzsche observed, "...if we could communicate with the mosquito, then we would learn that it floats through the air with the same self-importance, feeling within itself the flying center of the world. There is nothing in nature so despicable or insignificant that it cannot immediately be blown up like a bag by a slight breath of this power of knowledge..." (On Truth and Lie in an Extra-Moral Sense, 1873)

The question of the ages is not "Who am I?"

The question of the ages is "What is Truth?"

Obsessing with the identity of the "I"--and such things as "enlightenment" and "salvation"--is the manifestation of the problem rather than the solution.

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by HORIZONS

Riddle me this: I am the One, yet I am individually expressed. Therefore who am I?

it's a wonder


Infinity

within

the finite


so I Am Infinite

but I cannot believe it

so I limit it

to me

[HORIZONS]

Originally Posted by RedeZra

it's a wonder


Infinity

within

the finite


so I Am Infinite

but I cannot believe it

so I limit it

to me

Thus, you have perfectly described the human dilemma.

[truthseekerdan]

Great chit-chat on this thread...

The matter of fact is that the ego is our worst enemy (adversary).

I, us, we have to fight the ego (duality), every moment of spiritual growth.

I, us, we have the free will to either manifest God/Love/Christos, or ego/satan/devil.

I, us, we can Be MORE in the I AM THAT I AM.


~ Espavo ~

[greybeard]

Good morning.
My friends wow you have been busy.
It does my heart good to see so much wisdom coming to this thread.

In answer to 14
Certainly in the case Of David Hawkins there is no ego and the self of him is the same Self as the Self of Ramana etc it also the same Self as the Self of you.
Hawkins says he is not actually in the body, "People talk to it but thats the way it is here"

We cant fully understand till we are in that state but David Hawkins comes closest to describing what it is like.
Awareness remains and that is eternal. That is what you are and I are as One. Awareness.
There are levels of God awareness (even that is not absolutely correct) The first being full enlightenment as described by Hawkins. He is not saying he is God God as I understand it.
More comment very welcome and much appreciated
Chris


I have reposted this from previous page.

There is so many thoughts on what enlightenment is that I thought it best to get it straight from the one who is in such a state.

There are levels of enlightenment and after fully transcending the ego this is an account of the final state
copied from the book "I Reality and Subjectivity" by Dr David Hawkins MD Ph.D

"Suddenly without warning, a shift in awareness occurred and the Presence totally prevailed, unmistakable and all encompassing. There were a few moments of intense apprehension as the self died, and then the absoluteness of the Presence inspired a flash of awe. This breakthrough was spectacular and more intense than anything before. It had no counterpart in ordinary experience. The profound shock was was cushioned by the love that is the Presence. Without the support and protection of that love, it seems that one would be annihilated.
There followed a moment of terror as the ego clung to its existence, fearing it would become nothingness. Instead, as it died, it was replaced by the Self as Everythingness, the All in which everything was known and obvious in its perfect expression of its own essence.
With non-locality came the awareness that one is all that ever was or can be. One is total and complete, beyond all identities, beyond gender, beyond even humanness itself. One need never again fear suffering and death.

What happened to the body beyond this point is immaterial. At certain level of spiritual awareness, ailments of the body heal or spontaneously disappear, but in the Absolute state such considerations are irrelevant.
The body will run its predicted course and then return from whence it came. Its a matter of no importance, Reality is unaffected. The body is an it rather than a me; just another object like furniture in a room. It may seem comical that people still address the body as though it were an individual you, but there is no way to explain this state of awareness to the unaware. It is best to just go about ones business and allow providence to handle the social adjustment. However as one reaches bliss, it is very difficult to conceal that state of intense ecstasy.
in this final apocalypse of the self, the dissolution of the sole remaining duality of existence versus non existence dissolves in Universal Divinity and no individual consciousness is left to chose. The last step, then, is taken by God."

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by greybeard

That is what you are and I are as One. Awareness.

Such "awareness" can only be accomplished through the 'movement' of self-reflection, which is intrinsically dualizing; and, for that reason, the origin of conflict and violence. (This is symbolized by the "serpent" in Genesis 3 and the "dragon" in the Revelation of John.)

This is simply inescapable.

Originally Posted by greybeard

There is so many thoughts on what enlightenment is that I thought it best to get it straight from the one who is in such a state.

As observed by Krishnamurti, thought is intrinsically dualistic; and, for that reason, at least an exacerbation and intensification of conflict and violence.

This is inescapable.

Thus, thoughts about "enlightenment" are not in any way helpful to the actual reduction in the real world of conflict and violence.

Rather, the obsessive focusing upon "enlightenment" among the Eastern religious traditions is essentially no different than the incessant focusing upon personal "salvation" in the Western religious traditions. It only magnifies conflict and violence.

Originally Posted by greybeard

There are levels of enlightenment...

All of this is nothing more than thought; and, thus, merely the continuation of conflict and violence.

[greybeard]

This might be helpful, not saying its true but it is a way of looking at it.

Taking Dr Hawkins map of consciousness, which is presented as logarithmic scale, as a context.

God is infinity and therefore beyond calibration.
Archangels 50000
Enlightenment on earth up to 1000.
All the spiritual giants calibrate at this, Jesus the Buddah Krishna.
Enlightenment first level 600 (non-duality)
Sainthood very high 500s ( Saints are still very much in this world though not of it.)
Unconditional love 545
Megalomania 60.

The highest truth is that only God is.
So its likened to step down transformer,with highest spiritual energy God.
At lower levels we are unaware of consciousness at play we are so strongly identified with ego story we think we are it.
As our individual consciousness evolves we become aware that we are not just
a body, that may be an intellectual understanding to begin with.
We begin to disassociate from the play realizing that our perception has been mistaken and that there is no one out there doing anything to us, there is no external enemy, its the way we perceive events, our interpretation.
People are just being themselves.

Example, if people are angry and that anger heads in our direction, that is not a personal event, its just anger expressing itself and we happen to be handy for that to manifest. If we are not there, then, that anger would be expressed at some one or something else.

Eventually we can look at what is going on from an observer witness state and be unaffected by the play but there is compassion for those who still believe they are at the mercy of life. (Illusion)

If we are firmly entrenched in the belief in God, that we are not a body, how can death affect us? Except for compassion for others who are equal to us but not at the same level of understanding. Death is very real to them as is fear.

When enlightenment occurs it is not a personal event as there is no person left to claim it.
That is my understanding of the moment.
Comment very welcome.

Chris
Namaste

[greybeard]

4q529
Good to see you here contributing.
Yes you are right about thought being dualistic which is why KM said " I dont mind"
The reason so few are enlightened is that they pursue something out with themselves, dualistic.
Dr Hawkins goes in to great depth on the reason why so few make it in the book.
"Discovery of the presence of God"
The truly Enlightened Sages are thoughtless awareness, its hard for them to describe as they are everything and aware of everything. How can you describe the color white when you are white and so is everything else? Yet that is not that. It is not describable in human terms it is beyond mind.

4q529 if you can accept that KM was enlightened as are others in the past why not check out Hawkins for yourself. People seem to have difficulty in accepting that that there are spiritual geniuses, enlightened sages, here Now.

Those who are Truth have to step down to our level of vibration and understanding to encourage us and point the way as Jesus did.
They do not experience the world the way we do at all.
He, Jesus, said "I am the way" The "I" is the way and it is found inside.
The question is not who am I? but "What am I?"

Again this is my current understanding and words can never be truth as talking about "I"
is not "I"

Chris
Namaste.

[greybeard]

Sai Baba said "Its good to be born into a religion, bad to die in one"
I was baptized Catholic but as stated much earlier I escaped pre-school.

Krisha said (I cant find the exact quote posted earlier on the forum.)
"Even those who are mislead and head in the wrong direction are mine"
Anyone who truly loves God is in a good place regardless of which religion they are in or not in.
Back to Beren saying "Love love and then see what happens."

We don't know whats going to happen.

I am aware that there is potential for world war three, if that happens the next war will be fought with bows and arrows. I don't even like to go there.
Its a hypothetical.
Putting energy to that thought just adds to the potential for it to happen in my opinion.
Better to look for peacful and harmonious world.
The Nexus thread on this forum is filled with people actively doing this.

Anti war parades for example are expressing anger and frustration and are very violent affairs.
Mahatma Gandhi liberated India without firing a single shot, that is the power of high spiritual energy.
Mother Teresa said you might find me at a peace rally but not at an ant-war one.
Attacking violence is still attacking, its a similar energy.
Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

I cant debate the meaning of text from the bible as I have not studied in any depth.
The first two commandments say it all for me.

Im just letting right brain write.

With love to all who contribute here.
Chris

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by greybeard

We don't know whats going to happen.

In reality, Sir, you can speak only for yourself.

The use of the word "we" in such situations is a (probably) unconscious claim of Omniscience. You can say what you don't know; but you cannot claim to know that there is not one person on the face of the earth who knows what is going to happen. That would mean that you are claiming to be God Himself.

You have no way of knowing what I know about what is going to happen or that I even know it.

Originally Posted by greybeard

I am aware that there is potential for world war three, if that happens the next war will be fought with bows and arrows. I don't even like to go there. Its a hypothetical.

It may very well be a hypothetical for you, Sir.

But that does not mean that it is hypothetical for everyone.

That is what a Prophecy is.

Originally Posted by greybeard

Putting energy to that thought just adds to the potential for it to happen in my opinion.

On the other hand, if David Bowman in 2001--A Space Odyssey simply ignores the fact that the HAL 9000 computer has killed all the other members of the crew, he will be the next victim.

Originally Posted by greybeard

Attacking violence is still attacking, its a similar energy.

Jesus attacked the Pharisees and Sadducees for their violations of the Law and their contradictions of Revealed Truth.

There is simply no other word for it, if you read the Gospels carefully.

Originally Posted by greybeard

Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

It is, of course, quite disgusting when someone attacks Jesus and then quotes Jesus to support such an attack.

Attacking lies through Truth is not "living by the sword".

"Living by the sword" is lying, censoring the Truth, and murdering those who contradict you.

[greybeard]

4q529
I stand corrected.
My understanding of the word hypothetical is that it has not happened yet, therefore not a factual reality. I not saying the receiving of prophesy is not a fact, it just hasn't happened as yet in everyone else's reality.
Some prophesies come into being some do not.
Anyway I don't pretend to be a scholar so I cant debate the bible or its meaning with you.
I really don't mind.
Regards
Chris

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by greybeard

4q529 if you can accept that KM was enlightened...

Don't mean to be offensive here, Sir.

But I don't care if he was or not.

It is of absolutely no interest to me whatsoever.

You could not pay me to read something that he wrote.

The entire concept of "enlightenment" has no value for me whatsoever. All discussion over whether or how this or that person is or is not or can or cannot be or become "enlightened" is, to me, a fundamental distraction from doing anything real in diminishing violence and conflict.

Originally Posted by greybeard

Those who are Truth have to step down to our level of vibration and understanding to encourage us and point the way as Jesus did.
They do not experience the world the way we do at all.

Sir, you have absolutely no idea whatsoever of how I experience the world.

None.

If you want to speak for yourself, feel free.

But you cannot speak for me.

Originally Posted by greybeard

He, Jesus, said "I am the way"

What Jesus said is "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

The Truth conveyed by merely the phonetic tones of those words (the meaning of which is Revealed through the Vision of the "Son of man", the which is Revealed through the Revelation of the "resurrection") can be translated as: I am the Revelation of the "resurrection"; I am the Vision of the "Son of man"; I am the Law."

What was left unsaid is that both the Revelation of the "resurrection" and the Vision of the "Son of man" utterly consume the "I"--something that you have no Knowledge of.

[HORIZONS]

Originally Posted by 4Q529

What Jesus said is "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

The Truth conveyed by merely the phonetic tones of those words (the meaning of which is Revealed through the Vision of the "Son of man", the which is Revealed through the Revelation of the "resurrection") can be translated as: I am the Revelation of the "resurrection"; I am the Vision of the "Son of man"; I am the Law."

What was left unsaid is that both the Revelation of the "resurrection" and the Vision of the "Son of man" utterly consume the "I"--something that you have no Knowledge of.

Interesting thought: Expand on it some...

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by HORIZONS

Interesting thought: Expand on it some...

Well, first I have to consider whether providing such an explanation would come under the category of "self-promotion".

What do you 'think'?

[HORIZONS]

Originally Posted by 4Q529

Well, first I have to consider whether providing such an explanation would come under the category of "self-promotion".

What do you 'think'?

Well, I see the mission of Jesus as the death of the egoic state, the rebirth of the True state and the ascension into the fullness of this. This thread is about our views on the ego and how to transcend it - I think this can be explained in the work of the Christ. How about you?

[greybeard]

4q529
With respect.
There is a disclaimer that I put on most posts that I dont know and its just my point of view.
Enlightenment is just a word and words are not it.
I posted some where else Dr Hawkins statement that only God passes through the final door
There is no David Hawkins left.
Please tell me why I should believe what you say more than what passes through the form that was Dr Hawkins I am not disbelieving you or Dr Hawkins.

I am not educated, being dyslexic, I left school at the age of fifteen with out even standard grade. My knowledge therefore of the bible is limited to the religious instruction I got at school then which was non-denominational and is a distant memory.
I virtually taught myself to read and later found the joy of reading spiritual text from Sri Ramana Yogananda, Ramesh Balsekar, then recently Eckhart Tolle and currently Dr David Hawkins, so I take your word for it that you are very knowledgeable regarding the word of Jesus and the essence of it. Never the less the God of my understanding save me from suicidal alcoholism at the age of 25. I have been on the spiritual path in my own way ever since and have experienced the Love of God descending on me and leaving me in an incoherent state of bliss for two days, where all I could see and experience was pure love.
So that where I am personally coming from.

Chris
Namaste

[HORIZONS]

Originally Posted by greybeard

4q529
With respect.
There is a disclaimer that I put on most posts that I dont know and its just my point of view.
Enlightenment is just a word and words are not it.
I posted some where else Dr Hawkins statement that only God passes through the final door
There is no David Hawkins left.
Please tell me why I should believe what you say more than what passes through the form that was Dr Hawkins I am not disbelieving you or Dr Hawkins.

I am not educated, being dyslexic, I left school at the age of fifteen with out even standard grade. My knowledge therefore of the bible is limited to the religious instruction I got at school then which was non-denominational and is a distant memory.
I virtually taught myself to read and later found the joy of reading spiritual text from Sri Ramana Yogananda, Ramesh Balsekar, then recently Eckhart Tolle and currently Dr David Hawkins, so I take your word for it that you are very knowledgeable regarding the word of Jesus and the essence of it. Never the less the God of my understanding save me from suicidal alcoholism at the age of 25. I have been on the spiritual path in my own way ever since and have experienced the Love of God descending on me and leaving me in an incoherent state of bliss for two days, where all I could see and experience was pure love.
So that where I am personally coming from.

Chris
Namaste

Namaste to you, for experience speaks truer and louder then beLIEfs.