Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!

[Carol]

Well said Fritz. Mahalo

Lisa, I truly am sorry that the team member you met was not committed to the truth as truth is what can stand on its own as time moves on. That person discredited his or herself and Dr. Greer, and I'm sure he would be saddened to learn they made up stories to impress others.

And I could also see that you would find the experience a waste of time and money as you were not yet ready for this. Meaning if you went with expectations of seeing sightings and alien entities and you were not inwardly emotionally/spiritually prepared for this to happen, your psyche would most likely prevent this from occurring for you.

When I had contact it was totally unexpected and quite a surprise. However, I experienced no fear during the experience and the situation was positive. ETs are telepathic. If they perceive someone is afraid they often won't make contact out of consideration for the person involved. Fear often prevents one from having these higher consciousness experiences with the alien entities that Greer is in contact with.

Dr. Greer does not have a job as he is not employed by anyone. He has a spiritual mission. This mission is not a religion although others may think of it as that if their own personal life experience is limited. The mission is Universal Brotherhood.

[trainedobserver]

Steven Greer is confronted in a way you have not heard in any Coast to Coast or Camelot interview on the Paracast. You simply MUST listen to this interview.

http://www.theparacast.com/podcast/o...jeff-ritzmann/

[trainedobserver]

If you are interested in the "real" Steven Greer you MUST read the OUTSIDE Magazine article written in September 1994.

DO NOT be taken in by this man's nonsense. Educate yourself.

www.mufon-ces.org/docs/outsidemagazine.pdf

[PilotSimone]

You're trying too hard, trainedobserver.

A good smear job is subtle.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by PilotSimone

You're trying too hard, trainedobserver.

A good smear job is subtle.

Good grief. Remain ignorant and manipulated if you wish or cultivate some critical thinking skills. Your choice.

The title of this thread is "Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!" You can choose to ignore the details if you wish but I will continue to provide them.

[PilotSimone]

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Good grief. Remain ignorant and manipulated if you wish or cultivate some critical thinking skills. Your choice.

The title of this thread is "Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!" You can choose to ignore the details if you wish but I will continue to provide them.

CSETI allowed a crew from CBS's 48 Hours "news show" to accompany an RMIT, March 20, 1994 to show its audience CSETI, doing real-time research in an area of known UFO/ET activity at Mount Popocatepetl in central Mexico. They got good footage. The story never aired.

The Story that 48 Hours Missed

In order to apply critical thinking skills, you must be willing to look at all sides of an issue. In the fall of 2008, I went, I saw, I was convinced. Direct experience always trumps written material, but not everyone can do that, so I offer the above as one example out of many.

By the way, if you are going to link to articles on a Mufon website, you might want to research Mufon's links to the CIA and history of involvement in cover-up of the really good sightings.

Cheers,

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Jnana

By the way, if you are going to link to articles on a Mufon website, you might want to research Mufon's links to the CIA and history of involvement in cover-up of the really good sightings.

Cheers,

Did you read the article? Obviously not. Put the crack pipe down.

[Jonah]

Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Jonah

Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...

I apologize. It was a bad joke.

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by Jonah

Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...

With friends like that....

[lisa]

Originally Posted by Jonah

Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...

What does it take to get this kinda Big Brother Moderator protection? I want some over here.

[Jonah]

Originally Posted by lisa

What does it take to get this kinda Big Brother Moderator protection? I want some over here.

Well you got it sister

Not saying anyone was ill-informed though..

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Did you read the article? Obviously not. Put the crack pipe down.

Uhm, yeah, I read it. So?

Turn on your thinking cap for a second. "Disinfo Agent" would mean Greer is working for TPTB. For the most part, they want the UFO issue kept out of public view. Failing that, they want all people who have seen UFOs to be viewed as nut cases. And, they want people to be afraid of ETs if they do happen to believe in them. Is there another "disinfo" story line where Greer plays a part? Who does he work for? How does this article say anything about any of that? Not at all, as far as I can see. In fact, it seems to be placing Greer in the position of another UFO nut case who is only interested in money. A routine smear job. Worse things have been said about the man.

Techniques I learned at CSETI produce results, and for me that is a profound and exciting thing. In that respect, I can say Greer is not a fraud. I have nothing to say about any of his other dealings.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Jnana

...Techniques I learned at CSETI produce results, and for me that is a profound and exciting thing. ...

Your cult-like devotion to Greer is obvious. Hopefully others will not be drawn into his fantasy world by your ...example. Greer is one of the worst things that has happened to Ufology in quite a long time and the evidence is out there for those with the where-with-all to process it. The study of Ufology reveals many such cult figures in its past.

The parallels between UFO cults and religious cults are very revealing and an equally absorbing study. You would find Nick Redfern's new book Contactees illuminating. I certainly wish you no ill will. But at some point you will have to face the reality of the situation ... or perhaps not. Good luck.

[PilotSimone]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Your cult-like devotion to Greer is obvious. Hopefully others will not be drawn into his fantasy world by your ...example. Greer is one of the worst things that has happened to Ufology in quite a long time and the evidence is out there for those with the where-with-all to process it. The study of Ufology reveals many such cult figures in its past.

The parallels between UFO cults and religious cults are very revealing and an equally absorbing study. You would find Nick Redfern's new book Contactees illuminating. I certainly wish you no ill will. But at some point you will have to face the reality of the situation ... or perhaps not. Good luck.

And when all else fails, accuse them of being cultists.

Thank you for being obvious about your intent here.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by PilotSimone

And when all else fails, accuse them of being cultists.

Thank you for being obvious about your intent here.

My "intent" is to get as many people as possible to avoid be taken in by such charlatans. My "intent" is for Ufology to crawl up out of the gutter of irrationality and purge itself of the role-playing fakes that clutter the field. I have no delusions that I will be in the least bit successful however.

Having been a long time member of a religious cult myself I recognize the pattern and it is there regardless of how strongly it is denied.

[tone3jaguar]

Trainedobserver,

have you ever gone and seen for yourself if the stories about calling in ET using the CSETI protocols are real or not? Or are you just pulling assumptions out of thin air based off of your own universal paradigm. From what I can see that is exactly what is happening. Perhaps you do not want it to be true that our consciousness has the power to reach outside of ourselves and communicate with spiritually advanced societies? Maby that would smash the comfort zone you are living in?

I like you had my doubts. I had already experienced some extremely unbelievable paranormal things happen in my life. So I went to one of the CSETI outings to see for myself if it was real or not. I tend to base my opinions upon evidence, not conjecture. Sometimes that evidence I use to form my opinions is fuzzy to some poeple. However, as long as I have learned to trust it I integrate it.

I was lucky enough to be living within a few hours of Asheville N.C. last year and went to the one day event there. Let me tell you, either Greer is the master of illusion or he is the real deal. We had all kinds of contact and we where only a few miles outside of Asheville. There where multiple people there with night vision scopes. During and after the protocol meditation, there where light orbs floating all around the group. I could see them without the night vision, but most could not. However on the night vision they where like something out of a special effects movie.

Independent people brought there own radar / laser detectors and these little off the shelf devices became interactive with what people where sharing they experienced during the meditation. Explain how out in the middle of a peice of farm land that multiple independent radar / laser detectors are going off on different bands of radar or laser at different times?

Not only that we had a craft fly overhead of the group. It was very high up in the upper part of the atmosphere. However, it was brighter than Venus and made an angular turn at what was probably at least a thousand MPH if not more. Then suddenly it went dim and turned into what looked like a normal aircraft with blinking lights on it.

Also multiple people saw the holographic image of a being emerging from the edge of the tall grass at the edge of the field. One person even caught a frame of it on their camera. It was not in your face, but there was something there. We also had a cloaked ufo strobe and interact with the lasers about 30 degrees off of the horizon multiple times.

After you experience stuff like this, you tend to have a paradigm shift and begin to understand why there is so much smear stuff posted about Greer. It is not a cult for the simple fact that Greer tells all of the people he trains that they should do it on their own and that he does not have to be around to get results. He also tells people not to follow him because he is no more special than anyone else.

Do your research and stop making assumptions that protect the box you think in.

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

My "intent" is for Ufology to crawl up out of the gutter of irrationality and purge itself of the role-playing fakes that clutter the field.

One of the best works in the field that I have seen is Richard Dolan's series of books on "UFOs and the National Security State". Besides documented sightings, he discusses the various mechanisms put in place to manage the cover up. Among these mechanisms is infiltration and control of civilian UFO organizations. Dolan provides references and names names. All civilian UFO organizations are infiltrated and controlled to some degree. Greer has stated that this is his reason for staying separate from the rest of the field. I met a fellow who was a Mufon field investigator many years back. He related an incident where one of his superiors in Mufon fabricated a balloon, launched it, and then used that as an excuse for labelling a very good case report as a hoax. I know of a lady who recently reported a sighting to Mufon and made the mistake of saying that it was the result of using Greer's protocols. The case report was promptly deleted. Evidently CE5s are not part of the approved Mufon message.

I fail to see how denying entire classes of phenomena is "rational". A truly curious person would investigate, even if such phenomena challenged his or her notions of what is real and possible. At one time, talking about landings was not considered "respectable" and mainstream ufologists avoided it. Talk about crashes and beings was likewise avoided. Over time, these things became accepted and now we have astronauts talking about such things on the record.

I'm not sure what aspect of Greer's protocols for establishing contact you would consider "irrational". Being a hard core atheist until just a few years ago, I have some ideas. I can certainly understand how any material for general publication would be in danger of being disregarded as nonsensical for talking about telepathic contact and such things. However, I personally am no longer able to deny that such things are possible. I'm an empericist - this is due to observation and experience, not belief.

If you dig enough, you will find that even the sciences are controlled to prevent the discovery of certain things. The real nature of gravity is one of those things. How do you UFOs move silently, going from hovering to thousands of miles per hour at great accelerations? Field propulsion is not feasible with our current understanding of physics. Should that be used as a reason for denying observations of UFO performance?

I think you've nailed it, though. This is all very much about what we consider real and "rational".

[trainedobserver]

I've already posted enough on Greer. If folks still want to engage in his nonsense then so be it. I had no delusions of actually convincing anyone of anything. It is obvious to many serious researchers that Greer is a determent to Ufology.

The incredible amount of B.S. in what passes for Ufology has discouraged many serious investigators and caused them to abandon or consider abandoning the field. When they do all you will have left is the confidence men tickling the ears of the non-critical thinking general population.

The phenomena is real enough however I am almost convinced that it will never be understood because it does not want to be. The mystery and secrecy surrounding the phenomena is not controlled or owned by the government or any other human entity. It is owned and controlled by the phenomena itself. When this sinks into all of our heads we'll see a new wave of discouragement and abandonment I'm sure.

Light shows and "feeling special" about their "expanded consciousness" will keep the cultists and the deluded happy and the con-men clothed and feed but it will not led to open contact, any real information, or progress.

[tone3jaguar]

So I guess that is a no.

[Carol]

trainedobservor, meaning no disrespect, but for all we know about you personally, you could be a disinformation agent yourself out to smear anyone who is making progress with actual positive ET contact. Your name implies that you are trained as an observer. Who trained you? Where are your credentials? What were you trained to observe? Many of us here go by our real names with real photos and a means to check out our backgrounds. There is a spirit of openness that both Kerry and Bill wanted for the members of the forum as Bill really doesn't like false fronts that avatar names provide. I just like to know, who are you to make the kind of posts that you do? What is your level of expertise? How long have you been in the UFO field? What books have you read? Who in the field have you personally had conversations with to form the opinions that you do? What have you researched? In checking out your profile page I noticed you didn't put anything down about yourself at all. Why is that? What are you hiding or afraid of?

onawah, I very much appreciated your thoughtful post and do agree with you on many points. I too share some of the same questions.

Steven, c'est la vie. There is a difference between stating an opinion and outright slander. I reacted. However, I do agree that all of us here are after the truth and hopefully we'll keep an open mind for new information.

lisa, good on you. Your courage to stick up for your beliefs is admirable.

[Shaynard]

I consider "disinfo" to imply the person is aware what they are saying is not only not true, but is formulated to deliberately mislead people.

Whereas "misinfo" would be someone who believes what they are saying, but those beliefs are caused by that individual being given false information, or making a mistake in their own conclusions.

"Misinfo" happens all the time. It is not malicious. It's just part of our existence.

"Disinfo" is malicious, with the intent to mislead. This is not helping the world, it is self serving.

Greer a Disinfo agent?.. I have no idea. I do not agree with many of his conclusions, but I have also never felt he is deliberately spreading disinfo either. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it won't matter.. I just listen to him, I don't "follow" him. There is a very significant difference in my opinion. I listen to anyone who has something to say, otherwise my conclusions are based on limited information.

The idea, of a medical doctor giving up their practice to chase UFO's in order to gain money does not seem very logical to me.. However I can't totally rule it out either. People do some very illogical things at times.

In my heart I feel Greer is a good man. If he is giving disinfo then I suspect there is a much deeper motivator that money. Either way, I do not require Greer or Mufon or any other group or individual to convince me of anything.

I simply enjoy listening... You can learn many things, ( even from a disinfo "pusher", perhaps just not what they intended.) when you listen.


In light, of love
Shaynard

[onawah]

I'm glad to see this discussion continuing and becoming more clarified and refined!

It was late when I entered my last post and I was tired, so I forgot one point in answer to a point Carol made. She cited Greer's devotion to his wife and child, which she thought demonstrated that he could not have been responsible for the nude photos etc that he allegedly posted. While I still agree that it could well have been a clever smear campaign directed at him, I have to take exception to Carol's conclusion, because even actively gay men can also be very devoted to their wives and children.

I also forgot to point out the obvious,that in our homophobic society, when closeted gays admit to themselves that they are gay, it can be a huge, very fearful and stressful time, a time of earth-shaking change for them, leading to erratic behavior, change of loyalties, etc.etc. Becoming public and becoming actively gay can be an even bigger step and can also lead to unusual behavior, emotional breakdowns, etc. . So while I have no idea or real opinion about whether Greer is gay or not, the possibility does factor into the questions about his behavior. If he really is gay and is struggling with uncloseting himself, he certainly needs and deserves our support. If he is being the target of a smear campaign, he also needs and deserves our support. But I also don't really know if that's the whole story. Only time will tell.

I also believe he is a good man, but I think he's walking a very high tightrope, and that is what concerns me the most, not only for his sake, but because his reputation and stature in the Disclosure community has and will likely continue to affect the whole Disclosure Movement so much. If he is gay and is still trying to hide it, it may be why he seems to be uncomfortable in public circles of truth-seekers, who are pretty good at ferreting out secrets!. I would encourage him to Come Out then, because the cat is already out of the bag if that is true, and he will get support from the Disclosure Community if he places his trust there, and I doubt his sexual preference will affect his stature in those circles. If he's not gay, then I think it would be a good idea for him to state so publicly. Lying or pretending like nothing is going on will probably just drag the whole thing on even longer.

While I do not agree with TrainedObserver on most points, I do share frustration about the lack of clear communication between our apparently benevolent Visitors and ourselves. No doubt most whistleblowers including Greer are frustrated too. How many years can one wage this battle and repeat oneself over and over again, continue to fend off the same old poisonous BS, disinfo and misinfo before there is enough definitive proof to allow us to move up to the next level of the work and finally see some of our long cherished goals accomplished? I think the strain has been getting to all of us, but I can imagine that for Dr. Greer, it could be magnified, as much as for those like Bob Dean and other venerable Whistleblowers who have been at this for an even longer time. Patience is certainly a virtue we have to cultivate to stay sane on this journey! I hope that what Dean, David Wilcock and others have been saying, that things are going to start shifting dramatically very soon, is true. It may still get worse before it gets better, but it feels to me like we've been poised on the edge of this precipice long enough.

I also think part of the challenge and responsibility for us is to grow into the more subtle energies enough so that we can all have the types of experiences that Tone3 describes. If we haven't achieved that as yet, it doesn't ring true to discredit those experiences that others have had or to assign value or meaning to them which we obviously cannot truly comprehend..

There are channelers, healers and psychics who are able to bring those energies through so that others may experience them in their presence, and I have experienced that many times. For some years now I have also experienced that kind of energy at times when reading some of the channeled information online, reportedly from higher dimensional beings, and have learned to differentiate between the ones that are giving disinfo or misinfo and the ones who are in touch with something or someone who is genuinely benevolent and far seeing (in my opinion, Lisa Renee is one of these—I see someone on these forums has been copying her messsages). I also like Aluna Joy and Tyberonn. That has helped me a lot in my healing process and in staying in touch with those energies that I believe our planet is moving toward.

For those like myself who don't have the wherewithal to go to Sedona, Crestone or Trout Lake for a CSETI field trip or something similar, and/or don't know how to summon a UFO, it's a pretty good substitute. I believe what these channelers are saying is true (and the Mayans who understand what their Calendar is really saying) that the lies and negative agendas that have been created on our planet will fall to the wayside as our solar system continues to move into a different alignment with the Great Central Sun. (Nassim Haramein has great info about this too- he's a treasure!) So I don't worry about our future, but I do want to play a part in the unfoldment and revealing of the truths which will help us all (and Gaia herself) to make the transition more smoothly and easily.

If we dwell too much on the past and what the negative forces have planned for our future, the possibilities for a bright future become dimmed in our minds, and we lose some of the power we have as individuals to be a conduit for those positive energies. The great thing about looking to the future and imagining how great it will be is that it helps disconnect us from those past agendas and puts us in a different playing field. We ignore the past to our peril, but we don't have to perpetuate it either. We create our own reality by what we focus on...

[Anchor]

I read some of this thread for the first time today.

I do see people not playing nice in this thread - so I guess the moderators have to work harder now.

For my own contribution to the debate - there are no facts that can be presented with sufficient clarity on a forum that will satisfy all of us. What we have here is the grey area (no pun intended) of "testimony" and its worth remembering that each of us on this forum is allowed to present that and should be able to do so without fear of ridicule, but that does not always seem to be happening.

You were all born with a 100% accurate B******t meter inside you - you can all learn to use it with 100% accuracy but it takes work. Owing to the fact, that none of us have mastered this yet - or maybe some of us have - I dont know, I know I have not. Even if I had, on the forum its still my words and they can be doubted even if they contain truth.

So what we have left is debate and discussion. The moderators are not here to protect anyone or show favours. The moderators are here to see to it that "Avalon" proceeds according to the forum guidelines.

Many recent posters to this thread are encouraged to review thier approaches.

A..