The ego what is it? How to transcend?

[greybeard]

Its a question of what resonates with you and is it in alignment with any goals you may have.
The spiritual teachings are full of paradoxes.
On the one hand I seem to be the doer on the other hand nothing happens without the enviroment being helpful to what I want to achieve.
Jesus said " Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within who is the doer" yet he extolled us to make every effort to avoid wolves in sheeps clothing.

Looking back it seems that I had to make every effort to make spiritual progress and yet because I became willing to learn about the spiritual the path was made easy by the right books the right teachers appearing at the right time, events I just couldent have arranged.
Having breakfast with Eckhart just happened. Same as walking round a corner and theres a friend I havent seen in years. We have all had experiences where we think of some one and the phone rings and there they are.

I take one step towards God and He takes a hundred towards me. L

It now appears that if I just "let go, let God " then life flows beautifully, I have aligned my will to what is.

Anyway another coffee is required.
Bye for now.
With Love
Chris

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by greybeard

Its a question of what resonates with you and is it in alignment with any goals you may have.
The spiritual teachings are full of paradoxes.
On the one hand I seem to be the doer on the other hand nothing happens without the enviroment being helpful to what I want to achieve.
Jesus said " Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within who is the doer" yet he extolled us to make every effort to avoid wolves in sheeps clothing.

Looking back it seems that I had to make every effort to make spiritual progress and yet because I became willing to learn about the spiritual the path was made easy by the right books the right teachers appearing at the right time, events I just couldent have arranged.
Having breakfast with Eckhart just happened. Same as walking round a corner and theres a friend I havent seen in years. We have all had experiences where we think of some one and the phone rings and there they are.

I take one step towards God and He takes a hundred towards me. L

It now appears that if I just "let go, let God " then life flows beautifully, I have aligned my will to what is.

Anyway another coffee is required.
Bye for now.
With Love
Chris

Yes, the first thing I noticed when I made a commitment to myself when I made a financial commitment to pay for the time of a spiritual coach -- the first thing I noticed is that money flowed to me and rather easily. For example, I got invited out of the blue to a couple of fun focus groups and was paid $300 plus a $75 gift certificate, plus all the free food I could eat during the group meeting, plus meeting some nice people :-) Plus I got to notice things about myself in my interaction with these people.

I started to really take my spiritual rehabilitation "seriously" with focused intention, just as I do when I am lifting weights towards a known goal.

As with yourself, I got what I put into it and there is some other component, call it God, that co-contributes.

The New Testament also has some pithy and rather scathing words for those who are what the common translation calls "lukewarm", although I would not take the whole NT as unadulterated highest level of truths.

How I relate to Jesus saying it is the Father within him is the few times I have been in the viewpoint of the "All-that-is" and operated through that viewpoint. From that viewpoint, all things are possible. And guess what?!? It is a viewpoint that can be trained in and everyone can train themselves to operate from that viewpoint.

I just happen to pragmatically and practically see that it has to be a twin-up or group support set up -- regularly scheduled meeting times that one can fit into life's other demands. That way, if one is slow, the rest of the group, or his twin, can help him.

That may be a solely feminine perspective, but it could also be an antidote for a solely left-brained self sabotaging setup.

Yes, at first there can be a lot of effort involved. As the need or compulsion for effort gets cleared out, one rises above the need to "effort". But I see effort as divorced from pure intention. Effort probably also has its higher and lower harmonics, and we go up the scale on the chord of "effort".

As a real-life example, today I got together with my personal spiritual coach and we processed the common emotion of love, i.e., admiration + sympathy. When the process was finished (not without being peppered with some grief) I had moved up to something more akin to admiration + compassion. Thus I ended session knowing that I did not have to knee-jerk response to, let's say, an abandoned puppy, with the lower type of "love".

Small sure steps, all part of the enlightenment process.

And, yes, I am a voracious reader/self-educator too. That contributes immensely.

I have journalled parts of my spiritual growth over at the Freezone_Earth Yahoo Group

Not only did the NT warn us to avoid wolves in sheep's clothing, but were we not also extolled to put on our spiritual armor? And did not the early Christians gather together and work their spiritual practices/tools together? What were their "tools" to help them gain equal footing with their brother Jesus?

[Gnosis5]

I starved my ego by not giving it any fine degrees at all the right schools -- all that it wanted I denied it -- it was a battle royale, but i won

[greybeard]

Hi
I posted this on Gnosis5 thread regarding spiritual teachers
and thought it worth putting here.

"Think it all depends on your spiritual energy and end goal.
Dr David Hawkins has developed a map of consciousness.

http://www.veritaspub.com/

Thats his publishers website.

He teaches that we all have an individual level of verifiable spiritual energy.
Can be checked by Kinesology testing, as can other things, as long as the question is integretous.

For example on his scale of consciousness Jesus, Krishna, The Buddha all calibrate at 1000, enlightenment 600, unconditional love 540.
He states that as long as a teacher calibrates over 200, the level of integrity, then thats a valid teaching.
Also he maintains in the book "Truth versus Falsehood" that it is essential you test the level of the teacher because you are trusting your soul to them.

A student at a calibrated level of 400, the intellect, would relate to a teacher in the 400,s well but might have problems with a teacher in the 600s
It is essential to know that one level is as good as another, it just denotes/qualifies the work to be done in this life time, the obstacles to be overcome.

If the goal is enlightenment then it is imperative to read books by those who are in that state or those who were before exiting the world. Christ, The Buddha, Krishna, more recent Nasargadatta. Ramana, Ramesh Balsekar, (Recent ones all 750)
Still of this world, Dr David Hawkins Eckhart Tolle, there will be others but there are only about thirty fully enlightened beings in the world at this time according to Dr Hawkins, awakened is not fully enlightened.

There is a situation where by proximity with the enlightened teacher there is a transference of energy vibration from auric field of the the Sage to auric field of the student. This is called also the Grace of the guru. This raising of spiritual energy will assist the student greatly.

Hawkins says devotion is due only to God, respect your teacher but dont be a devotee, it will hold you back as you have assumed an identity.
Buddha said "Put no head above your own" good advice as all are equal in the eyes of God.

Regards Chris "

[greybeard]

Hi tintagelcave
I really enjoyed your sharing.
Thanks
Chris

[Gnosis5]

Thanks again for the David Hawkins assistance. Sounds like a good diagnostic tool. Currently I get my independent diagnostics from this lady:

http://angel-light-love-healing.blogspot.com/

I believe she uses a pendulum to assist her "knowingness".

cheers!
Gnosis

[greybeard]

Trainedobserver
as part of our discussion I would like to run this by you.

Taking it that an atom is alive because it is in movement.
Stones are alive because they are composed of atoms, however they are not conscious that I know of anyway.
Studies seem to prove that plants are conscious because they react to being loved by humans or react to being about to be "injured" ie tomatoes featured in such an experiment.

Now taking your theory that perhaps humans were engineered in labs.
I can see thats its possible to modify change life to varying degrees but I know of no case where life was created from scratch. There has to be some existing life form ie the atom to process into whatever.
To my "mind" consciousness can come into form but it cant be created, it does not need form as out of body experiences seem to suggest. Some people have recall of previous lives, young children have been know to give very specific detail of places unknown to them in this life.

There may be aliens of extreme intelligence but I doubt if even they could create life/consciousness from absolutely nothing.
Therefore I believe in a creator which I call God.

With respect for all points of view
Chris
ps I dont personally need external proof, subjective experience is beyond intellect and beyond mind which will die with the body. Experience of course needs mind so its not the right word, There is just a nonverbal knowing.

[greybeard]

Dr. David Hawkins on a belief system versus an experiential subjective reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNJUfCBtU20

I pasted this from Gnosis5 thread regarding spiritual teachers
thanks Gnosis5

[mudra]

Love Always
mudra

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by greybeard

Taking it that an atom is alive because it is in movement.

I don't know that I buy into "movement" equating to "life".

To my "mind" consciousness can come into form but it cant be created, it does not need form as out of body experiences seem to suggest.

I think medical science and the study of the human nervous system demonstrates that consciousness is a function of a living brain. Altering the brain alters the consciousness. Failure of the physical structure of the brain causes consciousness to collapse. OOB experiences are illusions I am afraid. I have seen no verifiable evidence that OOBs actually occur. I have discussed this with people who claim to have OOBs and they refuse to run simple experiments which would prove it.

Some people have recall of previous lives, young children have been know to give very specific detail of places unknown to them in this life.

There could be several explanations for this beyond a recycled "soul" or "spirit" (which I am sure you realize I do not "believe in"). Personally I find the idea of reincarnation to be truly a horror almost beyond words.

There may be aliens of extreme intelligence but I doubt if even they could create life/consciousness from absolutely nothing.
Therefore I believe in a creator which I call God.

Why not call it Jimmy? But seriously, why? Something like that would by definition be "alien" to the planet Earth and perhaps the Universe. Your labeling such a creature "God" assumes attributes that are unnecessary for its existence and operation. If there is a creator does it deserve reverence, worship, and devotion or would it even desire them? Why would we assume so? Could someone or something "lie" about being the creator or about representing the creator? How could we tell? We could not.

There is no difference between saying there is an eternal omnipotent being that has no beginning and no end and saying that the universe itself has no beginning and no end. Absolutely none. The universe, strictly speaking, does not require a "creator" as the human imagination has constructed such a being.

That's what I'm thinking anyway. Cheers. Smoke 'em if you got 'em and so forth.

[greybeard]

Hi Trainedobserver
havent experienced out of body myself but the Munro Institute used to teach it.
If we can believe stories, Goverment agencies CIA etc are suposed to have remote viewers to spy on the "enemy". Not sure about that one.

As for prayer the Sages say God dosent need or desire anything as He is complete.
The prayer is for our benefit in order partly to cultivate humility. The ego cant stand humility.

God is just s name and is not a subjective reality.
The god of the old testement was a paranoid judgmental dictator, the view of god has evolved over the years and still flawed.
You cant apply any human concept to God in my opinion.

Universes come and go.

Have a look at the Dr Hawkins link above its short.
He is very zen like and in you face so to speak.

His "intellectual " explanations are very profound, He was reading Plato and the like in his pre teens, searching for truth even at that age.

Anyway as long as you are happy its a "So what"

Have fun
Chris

ps the thinkingness links supplied by mudra are Dr Hawkins audio.

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

I don't know that I buy into "movement" equating to "life".

what is the matter

compositions of energized point particles


Energy cannot be created nor destroyed

but both Nature and Man can manipulate and transform it


if Energy cannot be created

then Who did

Come on Say it with me

God


Hereby not only His Handiwork

but Himself

are Proven beyond a reasonable doubt

[greybeard]

RedeZra
you said it -- clear and concise.
I get the essence of things but I cant all ways articulate it.
I really enjoy your visits.
Chris
Namaste

[trainedobserver]

RedeZra,

Why would there need to be someone to create or destroy anything? As I've stated before it is just as easy to say and "believe" that the universe and everything in it has always existed as it is to say it was created by a being who always existed.

Human beings can imagine practically anything ...it doesn't mean it is so. I spent over 35 years or so believing in a god RedeZra so I think I understand the concept pretty well. I simply no longer can justify such a belief. Since a search for truth begins with personal honesty I had to abandon my unjustifiable beliefs in the supernatural, god, and gods. I really don't think all the little quipy quotes and clever turns of phrases in the world could change that.

[greybeard]

[QUOTE=trainedobserver;234015]RedeZra,

Why would there need to be someone to create or destroy anything? As I've stated before it is just as easy to say and "believe" that the universe and everything in it has always existed as it is to say it was created by a being who always existed.
Quote

Trainedobserver
First I respect your honesty and integrity.
Does time even exist? I dont know.

Its all a puzzle to me.
Universes come into existence then decay
New universes are being formed and the current universe is expanding.
Things happen at the speed of light. All by chance? I dont know.

Ramana said "There is no creation or dissolution"
Perhaps the mind is dreaming it all. And thats ok.

The Sages say uniformly. We existed before all universes and will exist after all universes dissolve.
The in breath and the out breath of God.
Indras dream.
So many paradoxes in spirituality.

However

All I know is that against all odds I am sober, alive, well and in good humour.
I can ask for nothing more and it is my choice to believe that through a Higher Power I am in this state.

I am as I said happy for you to believe whatever you wish to believe.
Whatever turns you on, whatever works for you.

Regards Chris

[mudra]

"Every phenomena that exists is a creation of thought; therefore I need but empty my mind to discover that all of them are void."

Huang Po

Love Always
mudra

[mudra]

"The ultimate Truth is beyond words. Doctrines are words. They're not the Way. The Way is wordless. Words are Illusions."

Bodhidharma, founder of Zen

Love Always
mudra

[greybeard]

Quote from the book " I _ Relativity and Subjectivity" By Dr David Hawkins, MD., Ph.D.

"Having lost the innocence of the Oneness of nonduality, the human was then saddled with a defective ego/mind that was without protection from error due to its inability to recognize the presence or absence of Truth. The minds limitations of dualistic perception marked the nature of the fall from Grace.
Instantly the ego was labeled as sin since it marked the loss of innocence of nondualistic vision, which is represented by the innocence of the Garden of Eden. The basis for human suffering is seen to be the birth of the ego via the the onset of dualistic perception which operates with the impairment of positionalities.
This results in the illusion of pairs of opposites which culminates in suffering, sickness and death.

Q: What is the reality of seeming opposites of good and evil?
A: They are not opposites but alternatives and merely graduations along a common basis of choice.
like temperature there are only degrees. There is no such thing as cold versus hot; they are not opposites but only graduations.
Evil represents not the opposite of love but the absence of love."

This is a short extract but Hawkins use of language is very precise.
Its my belief that he is a present day Mystic and coming from a back ground of being a professional Psychiatrist if anyone knows about the mechanism of the ego he does in my opinion.

Have a look at the videos posted by Mudra that brief ex certs from cds of him.

If you are new to this thread welcome.
Please start page one as there are great posts with a mix of view points, Well worth the effort of reading.
Regards Chris

[mudra]

Love Always
mudra

[greybeard]

Thanks Mudra for your input.
Yes I believe it as said in the quotations you posted.
Eckhart said. " There never was anyone there to do anything to you"
Now and again he reveals "Absolute Truth" however most are not ready for that so to my mind he meets people where they are to begin with, giving "practical solutions" for being in the illusion then slowly leads one out of it. even if only the practical solutions are sought then a raising of consciousness through being more positive is bound to occur.
All to the good.
Hawkins dosent give an inch so to speak after "Power versus Force which is for the intellect with glimpses of the ultimate, the next few books are really going deep into the world of the Mystic-- nonduality.

I enjoy all your threads know exactly what I am going to find when I visit, Peace and Love in action - or is it non-action? - smiling broadly.

Chris
Namaste

[mudra]

You are right Chris .
I read somewhere that it is'nt because we have mastered the game that we give up the game.
I believe we are all exactly where we need to be expressing Consciousness in our own peculiar ways.
The ocean of Consciousness has many ripples giving it momentum and yet out of " no time " the ocean it is always the same.

Love for You
mudra

[mudra]

Love Always
mudra

[trainedobserver]

[QUOTE=greybeard;234029]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Does time even exist? I dont know.

I have come to think that it does not. At least as humans perceive it.

All by chance? I dont know.

Not by chance, by demonstrable laws.

[greybeard]

[QUOTE=trainedobserver;235040]

Originally Posted by greybeard

I have come to think that it does not. At least as humans perceive it.



Not by chance, by demonstrable laws.

Good morning trainedobsever.

Chris says
Demonstrable law is cosmic law to my mind.
Dont think you can have a law without intelligence.

Regarding the Hand of God.
A couple of subjective experiences in brief.
I met my former partner on a Bio-enegy course.
Upperbody normal but the legs were very short.
I put my hands on her head and looked down on her lying there and love and compassion arose. I asked the God of my understanding to use my form as He chose to heal her. Well if I did an energy came through the crown of my head so intense that it reduced me to tears and I collapsed howling on the floor in front of 15 classmates. Nothing happened to her at this time but later I put my hands over her knees and a loud clicking started, I asked her if she was doing this the answer was no with some wonderment as he bent legs began to straighten. After this she was able to walk pain free.

There were others, a neighbors back was bent and his spine calcified, I put my hands on his back and it straightened.

At my Aunts funeral was a dear friend of hers Lorna she was going to sit in a non family pew but I asked her to sit beside me.
During the service I felt energy move out of my side in her direction.
After the service she called me aside and said that she had felt warm energy move into her as she sat beside me.
She was due for a major operation which only had a 40% chance of success.
A few days later she phoned to say that the consultant had done a pre opp x ray and could find no sign of the problem, the opp was obviously canceled.

I have seen many professionally sometimes there was a complete healing many times a minor improvement and sometimes zilch.

I cant make healing happen, no mater how much I and the client want it, or believe it can happen, there seems to be an outside determinant as to result.

There is to my mind a power greater that myself that works the miracle if and when it happens.

I am therefore convinced by my own subjective experience that there is a loving Power which I call God.

Its ok not to believe, to my mind, trainedobserver, only time its not so good is when there is an acceptance that there is a God but to refuse/deny Him.
With Love and respect
Chris

[greybeard]

ps
When I speak of God I an not speaking of some-thing limited by definition, holy books, or human mind.
The God of my understanding is, the totality all of it and beyond it. A single first cause and on going Creator beyond our imagination our concepts,language. whatever!!!
Without form yet within every form. Transcendent, immanent, both and neither.

With love
Namaste
Chris