Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

[Zeddo]

Originally Posted by eleni

Posting private communication asked to be kept private will result in a ban. It's that simple.

Not entrusting private messages that are not meant to be shared would have circumvented this, and Bill Ryan should know this. I have no idea of the content or even the topic concerning this whole issue (presuming it's the whole Cliff High - Bill Ryan charade, which is all it is, 2 kids in a sandbox sulking over who has the best toys) but what I can say is that somebody who should have known better caused the final outcome. 2 wrongs don't make a right presuming that the banning is what would be construed as "right" in this instance, and the giving and sharing of the info the 2 wrongs.

Yes, in total simplicity the banning was correct, but was it moral? How quickly we cast aside our morality in protecting them we feel to be infallible, our "guiding lights" so to speak.

Once again, I will pose this question. Are we illuminated? Are we awakened? I think not. Struggling infants in a brave new world perhaps, but we have a long way to go before we can class ourselves as anything more than that, this includes both Kerry and Bill. We are all in this together and we need to look out for each other. The time to stop criticising, persecuting and generally damaging one another needs to stop, and stop NOW. We are starting to look like a bunch of christians here, the only people I know who bury their wounded.

I was hoping to see a change in the tide of pettiness that has been washing the shores of avalon especially in the past month, but I am afraid this is a mere pipe dream. I am hoping to be proven wrong. What was that old saying, "united we stand - divided we fall"? Oh yes there is something else and it was mentioned in a post in this thread....NEVER share writing in private what you do not wish to have aired in public. This is not a new precept, so Mr Ryan, take more care in future, you are not infallible. None of us are. The fact that Bill Ryan even shared something he wanted to be kept private needs to be questioned.

That's my petty tuppence worth.

Z

[eleni]

Bill Ryan asked her not to post it. franciejones posted it. I removed it and the other mods and I discussed this behavior, all were in agreement. It had nothing to due with the subject being discussed.

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Zeddo

Yes, in total simplicity the banning was correct, but was it moral? How quickly we cast aside our morality in protecting them we feel to be infallible, our "guiding lights" so to speak.

Of course it was not moral. It was a decision from the mind based on policy -- not a decision from the heart based on expanding consciousness.

As JFK said, I find the idea of secrecy repugnant in a free society.

--sjkted

[ellie]

Originally Posted by sjkted

Brightest Light: is this your view and writing or are you reposting from elsewhere?

--sjkted

Oh gee, because the evolved souls here didn't buy into the smurf world die hard stuff the people who live under the mushrooms have gone all nasty.

It's a shame really it is, but there you go.

Hey Brightest Light, I will take my chances with the beings that protect me and you can follow your path okay.

Go to it fella. Good luck with that in 2010.

[sjkted]

Ok. If you read the above message and do a search on messages by The Brightest Light, it is quite obvious he is acting as a provocateur here.

It seems like this is attempting to be made into quite a heated thread. I'm not going to name any other names here, but if someone is trying to incite division, check their profile and history of messages posted and see if there is a pattern of posting almost exclusively messages about I doubt this or You're wrong and such. Some of this is so obvious it's not even worth responding to these people.

--sjkted

[Moxie]

If emails are considered private by their very nature...
then why did Bill air Cliff's? ... tho he did, subsequently, appropriately apologize for citing the term "researcher/investigator" as "private investigator" not to mention over private bank accts<<<< (but still has not apologized for his name calling). That's the part that was so embarrassing.

And now this w/FrancieJones... deep sigh!
ok, so all you mods agreed, that doesn't make you correct, not to mention that it wouldn't do any good to consult the "founder" Bill on that matter for he's already demonstrated very poor manners all around.

Bill answered the Q & A on Cliff as though he was speaking casually with a dear friend over cocktails... when in fact he was airing himself on the worldwide web (maybe having had one too many, hmmm?< just joking but you get the drift).

Francie? You hang in there. I've always admired your spirit and good sense!

[Dood]

Hello Moxie....

By the Way: I like your 'Moxie'!

[Majorion]

HOPEFUL
371 /AKA/ DONJUAN
ARCORA /AKA/ SCARAB /AKA/ ALOE /AKA/ THE BRIGHTEST LIGHT


The funny thing is, I think I had a conversation with all these people (or, one person).




Scarab, Brightest Light, whatever... you're a seriously troubled individual and I genuinely wish help for you.

Peace

[Northern Boy]

I`m waiting for you Maro

YES. WE FOOLED YOU. and guess what? we laughed like hell at your sorry asses while we did it. it was FUNNY AS HELL. but you're going to find that HELL isn't funny at all.

Oh yes I fell for it and was just getting ready to accept your friendship offer

then I saw this wonderful loving angelic post and thought thats what has been missing good old fashion Astro Vera church sermons and it brought back so many memories .

you have had plenty of time to post info here why haven`t you ? Since you are banned I`ll help you out and answer for you . History Circus posted the second life thread , you are here to recruit more people to surrender access to their email address`s access to all files from their pc`s allowing you clowns in. This is why you are here you need them to go to your site to grow your flock and that is where you will show them what it is you want to . and not here

Your group has a simple flaw to it you can`t accept questioning you can`t accept being told your way is not the only way you can`t even infiltrate a forum with out being detected the only one you got fooled from what i saw in your post was you SOME TIMES THE BRIGHTEST LIGHTS HAVE THE DIMEST BULBS

....you are going to BURN and YOU KNOW IT.

The only one I see here doing any type of burning is you guys if you are up front and tell those who are here what you are doing then they accept it or reject it and you go your separate ways but thats not how you want to do it its about control with you

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Moxie

If emails are considered private by their very nature...
then why did Bill air Cliff's? ... tho he did, subsequently, appropriately apologize for citing the term "researcher/investigator" as "private investigator" not to mention over private bank accts<<<< (but still has not apologized for his name calling). That's the part that was so embarrassing.

And now this w/FrancieJones... deep sigh!
ok, so all you mods agreed, that doesn't make you correct, not to mention that it wouldn't do any good to consult the "founder" Bill on that matter for he's already demonstrated very poor manners all around.

Bill answered the Q & A on Cliff as though he was speaking casually with a dear friend over cocktails... when in fact he was airing himself on the worldwide web (maybe having had one too many, hmmm?< just joking but you get the drift).

Francie? You hang in there. I've always admired your spirit and good sense!

Agree with your perspective and those who have voiced similar views.

Mod's, you can justify your actions however you choose, but those of us watching those actions (as well as the actions of Bill, Kerry, Deagle, et al!) will observe and come to our own conclusions regardless of how you manage your responsibilities here.

I must say as a general observation that I'm extremely disappointed in the content and general intellect I've found here since jumping in a few weeks ago. As stated in previous posts, I've followed PC/PA since inception and have been intrigued by most of the interviews through the middle of this year. But then, with Deagle, Burisch and a few others (and yes, I've listened/watched to each of them several times!) it began to lose something, they seemed so contrived and suspicious in presentation and content that I actually had to listen/watch several times to be sure I wasn't missing anything. Then after several viewings of Kerry either struggling with the content/message (her role in the High, LaViolette and Greer interviews in particular) I began to think that something was going sideways.

Once Bill started this latest episode with Clif followed by the way it's been handled here by Bill and the mod's, I'm beginning to think that all's not well in the land of Camelot!

You mod's should really check your motives and morals and then have a chat with Bill and try to plug the holes in what appears to be a sinking ship! It's very apparent that a majority of us who spend time here out of interest and truth are getting soured by the content and actions of those who built and manage this joint! There are far too many sites and places of less nefarious activities and richer more mature content to explore and learn from...so far, this has seemed more like Payton Place than the Land of Camelot!

My $2 worth...

YinYangMind

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by sjkted

Ok. If you read the above message and do a search on messages by The Brightest Light, it is quite obvious he is acting as a provocateur here.

It seems like this is attempting to be made into quite a heated thread. I'm not going to name any other names here, but if someone is trying to incite division, check their profile and history of messages posted and see if there is a pattern of posting almost exclusively messages about I doubt this or You're wrong and such. Some of this is so obvious it's not even worth responding to these people.

--sjkted

Correct which is why the user in question ended up being banned, and messages and threads concerned were deleted. I am afraid I decided to delete your two messages above the quoted post that that quoted the deleted messages. I hope you dont mind overly much - though thanks for your efforts and contribution

Recursive moderation is like pushing water up a hill with a rake - but sometimes it is worth it.

A..

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Correct which is why the user in question ended up being banned, and messages and threads concerned were deleted. I am afraid I decided to delete your two messages above the quoted post that that quoted the deleted messages. I hope you dont mind overly much - though thanks for your efforts and contribution

Recursive moderation is like pushing water up a hill with a rake - but sometimes it is worth it.

A..

I don't mind. I realize we're also really putting the moderators to the test here. IMO The content from the banned user was really out of the blue and doesn't really contribute to the core of this thread.

--sjkted

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by truth and integrity

Bill forwarded to francie a private e-mail sent by Cliff. As he asked francie not to post it...

If this is what happened, it is clear to me that francie should not have been banned.

Bill Ryan had no justification to ask francie not to post an email from Clif regarding the subject matter in question.

Clif and Bill Ryan are public figures making statements about the state of the planet.

This is a forum for discussing public issues that are matters of life and death.

In my opinion, the moderators have made a mistake here.

[orthodoxymoron]

Even the best people seem to get entangled with petty disputes...and I'm not just talking about Avalon and Camelot...or the substance of this thread. It's sort of like fiddling while Rome burns.

Namaste

[Magamud]

In a severely corrupted world, in a house of mirrors organization is very difficult. I think sometimes that all we have is random chance and spontaneity.
By no accident our use of our mind and our communications has included malevolent intention. In a time of needed brainstorming conclusions can quite often leave no space for this. The flooding of benevolent teachers and word have been used up and no longer can one decipher fact from fiction. The slave masters know this and increase the flood of confusion. The attack is psychological, truth mixed with lies. Can we make it without relying on our state of communication?? Can we trust our telepathy and path of synchronicity to guide us...

[sjkted]

I've posted an honest letter to Bill Ryan with my views on this topic. I'm not going to double-post, but I'll put a link to it here: http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...&postcount=579. I'm looking forward to hearing from Bill.

--sjkted

[madgolem]

Originally Posted by sjkted

I've posted an honest letter to Bill Ryan with my views on this topic. I'm not going to double-post, but I'll put a link to it here: http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...&postcount=579. I'm looking forward to hearing from Bill.

--sjkted

Bravo! I coundn't have put it any better. I really hope to hear from Bill on this one. I know Bill and Kerry have good intentions because they cut off dan burish and leo zagami upon finding out that they're disinfo agents. But there's still disinfo agent bill deagle and shills like miriam delicado spreading lies on PC.

[swordsmith]

something stinks in project camembert, and it ain't francie jones.

Shame Kerry isn't more involved here or better still , could put Bill on a leash, but we all must move on in life and when there is this much tolerated (never mind defended) HYPOCRISY in a place supposedly devoted to truth, well , what a ***king joke, and I am tired of the swear ban, how old are we here?

People, seriously consider what forums actually are for. They exist mainly to mine information and manipulate the gullible. Sad, because the gullible so often come from the heart ,too.
For example, if you doubt that forums are for these purposes, then go to GLP ( god like productions) and mention just the word "Tavistock" , why? because that is the name of the social research ( engineering) group mining data there,( amongst others) It's an instant ban. People hate to be banned so they tow the line and give away a little of their integrity in increments, just to stay with their friends. Nobody is my friend here. the truth is my friend
yup, truth be told?... you wont find it here or maybe just the soft bits and the good stuff from people's hearts, but that is not what this place was set up for... in theory.
Besides, I just hate to see what happens when people become moderators, ego much? The third reich is quite easy to understand when you see what a little power does to people, god save me from the petty official.
Thanks to all the good ones who either stuck their necks out or tried to though.
Have fun in cloudy cuckoo land folks, it's getting pretty murky.

[abraxasinas]

Originally Posted by swordsmith

something stinks in project camembert, and it ain't francie jones.

Shame Kerry isn't more involved here or better still , could put Bill on a leash, but we all must move on in life and when there is this much tolerated (never mind defended) HYPOCRISY in a place supposedly devoted to truth, well , what a ***king joke, and I am tired of the swear ban, how old are we here?

People, seriously consider what forums actually are for. They exist mainly to mine information and manipulate the gullible. Sad, because the gullible so often come from the heart ,too.
For example, if you doubt that forums are for these purposes, then go to GLP ( god like productions) and mention just the word "Tavistock" , why? because that is the name of the social research ( engineering) group mining data there,( amongst others) It's an instant ban. People hate to be banned so they tow the line and give away a little of their integrity in increments, just to stay with their friends. Nobody is my friend here. the truth is my friend
yup, truth be told?... you wont find it here or maybe just the soft bits and the good stuff from people's hearts, but that is not what this place was set up for... in theory.
Besides, I just hate to see what happens when people become moderators, ego much? The third reich is quite easy to understand when you see what a little power does to people, god save me from the petty official.
Thanks to all the good ones who either stuck their necks out or tried to though.
Have fun in cloudy cuckoo land folks, it's getting pretty murky.

There is much truth in the words of swordsmith and his disappointment in the general 'quality' of forums on the internet is well justified and easily validated by the impartial observer.

However, many 'oldtimers' here would remember the tediousness of writing letters, photocopying them and then sending them through the mail to their destinations. And this after consulting encylopedias or public libraries and books in timeconsuming efforts to 'share information' say without having access to publishers of the written or the spoken words.

There IS a 'Change of Guard' on the horizon and this change will require much effort of deconditioning mind manipulation (not all of a devious nature) of say a thousand generations (20x1000).

Of course there will be ego-issues of all: founders, contributors and moderators.

Allow me to say however, that despite some 'strange mod decisions'; the moderators here have exhibited spiritual maturity and a necessary selfdiscipline in most circumstances.

As swordsmith has said however; this 'banning business' should NOT be implemented as it is at the present state of the affairs.

In situations of dispute a poll asking all contributors about 'disputed behaviour' would represent a selfregulatory mechanism and clearly 'crystallize' via 'peer pressure' if a certain 'pattern' is acceptable to the majority or not.
The moderators, instead of banning, could call for the polls.

Abraxasinas

[Olam]

This is my first post since the forum went free again. I originally was here in the first few days of this website.

It is quite different now than how it started.
You might wonder why am I saying all this.
Well its just so that you know where im coming from.

I do not want to get personal with anyone, or fan the flames, but I have to say this.

This thread is an amazing study on how things never change.
As far as I know, this website was supposed to be avantgarde and trailblazing, showing the way to a new kind of action, new kind of thinking and how we should act in a new society.
Sadly, its mostly ego based and "he said, she said" mentality.
Don't get me wrong, there are alot of great people here doing some great work, but when we strip away the articles,and info, we are left with people arguing based on the principle of opinion and free speech,"democracy".

All this is still inside the ego box. imagine all of us in a small community, faced with lets say a tsunami or great flood 3 hours away.....
Would the opinions change?....deep down, I think not. The percentage of survivors would be based on individual action for ones self.

Again, don,t get me wrong....this is how society is. This is how we learned to survive.......
I have been waiting here to see if it can be different and sofar, I think not.

Before anyone asks me why I don't contribute instead of bitching,....I still come here for the great info, but I can't stand loosing energy areguing with some of you. I did contribute in the last Avalon Epoch, I guess you could read that and see how I am.

Sometimes, we are too close to the trees and cannot perceive the forest.

Sorry if this is not clear, english in my second language.

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Olam

This is my first post since the forum went free again. I originally was here in the first few days of this website.

It is quite different now than how it started.
You might wonder why am I saying all this.
Well its just so that you know where im coming from.

I do not want to get personal with anyone, or fan the flames, but I have to say this.

This thread is an amazing study on how things never change.
As far as I know, this website was supposed to be avantgarde and trailblazing, showing the way to a new kind of action, new kind of thinking and how we should act in a new society.
Sadly, its mostly ego based and "he said, she said" mentality.
Don't get me wrong, there are alot of great people here doing some great work, but when we strip away the articles,and info, we are left with people arguing based on the principle of opinion and free speech,"democracy".

All this is still inside the ego box. imagine all of us in a small community, faced with lets say a tsunami or great flood 3 hours away.....
Would the opinions change?....deep down, I think not. The percentage of survivors would be based on individual action for ones self.

Again, don,t get me wrong....this is how society is. This is how we learned to survive.......
I have been waiting here to see if it can be different and sofar, I think not.

Before anyone asks me why I don't contribute instead of bitching,....I still come here for the great info, but I can't stand loosing energy areguing with some of you. I did contribute in the last Avalon Epoch, I guess you could read that and see how I am.

Sometimes, we are too close to the trees and cannot perceive the forest.

Sorry if this is not clear, english in my second language.

I think the real problem is our mental conditioning. I agree with all of this and I don't think it is in our nature to act this way. I predict that even if we did get a chance to change things, the problem is that the seeds for the way to act and what is appropriate has already been planted in our minds. In other words, it would only be a matter of time before we collectively manifested the status quo that is this world again. And if we couldn't do it, then we would train our children well enough so that they could do it.

One positive thing I see with the economic meltdown is that it is a paradigm changer and because of it, people of all walks of life are going to be re-thinking all of their beliefs and axioms in life because they are no longer working. As their old beliefs are destroyed with the old systems, there will be an opportunity for them to adopt something new. The question is whether they will just look for another box in which to store their consciousness or if they will go down the longer route of expanding it.

--sjkted

[mudhog92]

Who here is infallable enough to judge another on their actions? Agree or disagree, need there be more?

We are all capable and reminded to make decisions for ourselves. Make our own decisons from our own experiences, not the experiences of others.


Why give someone enough power to make you angry?

If you care not for something someone says, give it no power. Keep the power for yourself.

One outburst does not make someone an idiot despite all the good work they have done already.

[truth and integrity]

Originally posted by sjkted
I was under the impression that Dan Burish dumped Bill and Kerry. Am I mistaken here?

No, you are not. Burish dumped them but Kerry and Bill tried to convince us that even though Burish was quite compartmentalized, he was telling the truth.

Best regards,

[morguana]

Originally Posted by mudhog92

Who here is infallable enough to judge another on their actions? Agree or disagree, need there be more?

We are all capable and reminded to make decisions for ourselves. Make our own decisons from our own experiences, not the experiences of others.


Why give someone enough power to make you angry?

If you care not for something someone says, give it no power. Keep the power for yourself.

One outburst does not make someone an idiot despite all the good work they have done already.

Thank you for posting words of balance, something we could all learn from.
M x

[TAXMASTER]

here is my take whether anyone cares or not. ( i am a tri-plegic and 1 handed typer so excuse mu punctuation)

i have followed for several years. i first came across burisch on earthfiles and was fascinated with all the detail and really wanted to believe. after he opened his own web site, i started to scrutinise his presentation. first let me say that i am a fairly intelligent person with a healthy vocabulary and i have met many people who are much more intelligent than i and most people that want to be understood usually talk at a level that can be understood by most people. burisch loves to dangle a vocabulary that most find difficult to understand which tells me that he wants to impress everyone on his intelligence. there was a video of him receiving mail that was supposed to be unknown by him so he could get his reaction and it all looked staged plus how could he not know about the secret camera? then there were pictures of him delivering food to the poor with notations by marcia about how much dan gives to the poor and homeless. again somebody wanted to impress us on how spectacular he was. then there are all these copies of articles of incorporation and other items on display that anyone can get by paying the fees and filing out some paperwork. another way to impress those that don't know any different. he is probably really intelligent but has the emotional makeup of a child and badly needs to impress us for his own self esteem. i do not see the government employing such a time bomb for sensitive work.

in listening to deagle, he appears to have a vulnerable and sincere tone in many of his interviews. i think bill is taken by his personality and feels protective of it in some way. my gut instinct is that he has mental problems and is delusional but because he seems very functional and has had tremendous credentials, and is a super intelligent being, PC takes him as the real deal. i think that he thinks he is telling the truth and because of his displays of tears in some interviews, Bill believes he is genuine and feels a need to protect him.

i never believed or trusted leo zagami. he seemed like he was high on something during his interview because he could not answer the question without getting off subject.

i am still on the fence about ben fulford but he always reports on these wild things that can never be substantiated. for now i listen and take with a grain of salt.

dr pete peterson reminded me of the first time i used a condom. my partner was well satisfied and i was loaded but couldn't fire any rounds. in other words, i went through the motion and got nothing at the end. as my dad told me once he went to an "all you can eat" restaurant for $5 and they brought out the first plate that he finished rather handily and asked for another. the waitress said it would be another $5 and my dad said the sign said "all you can eat" and the waitress replied "that's right sir, that was all you could eat"

michael st claire has a good vibe to him and i think he is one of the good guys.

i used to think david icke was a kook but have changed my mind. i like his message and i can buy into just about anything he says but i am on the fence with the whole reptillian bloodline thing.

i think that sometimes the people here are a little too judgemental of bill and kerry. they are not professional reporters but overall i think they get the message out that each person has to tell. the only critisism i have is that if you are playing reporter, you must be objective and not get personally or emotionally involved with the whistleblowers otherwise you ruin your credibilty as an "objective reporter".

I welcome responses.

Namaste'