Issue in Divine Beauty

[Czymra]

I'm on a spree. I have a few questions that keep popping my mind. I want to drop them here and would love some reactions and comments.

Beauty

Beauty is an issue that's been occupying me for some time.
Similar to the excellent quote "There is no thinker behind the thoughts" (thanks Avalonians) I recognise greater truth behind "Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder" every day.

As an artist I often hear that beauty is the divine presence. I am also aware that if I was enlightened enough, probably everything around me would be beauty.

Nevertheless, I am bothered why beauty can be abused for evil purposes. I know beauty is an entity which of itself has no alignment. But to see it as a tool feels wrong. Especially when facing the ideas of sex and pornography, I wonder where the line can be drawn.
I understand that the propagated obsession with sex and its effects but I can not settle the dichotomy between divine beauty and the evil it is used for.

I have asked very similar questions several times, all seem to be related to 'good and bad' and the 'divine' or 'singularity' and have received brilliant answers. I do think I'm learning from this. I also understand that the 'bad' is my chance to learn and rise above. Yet if anybody could remind me what the connection is with these specifics I'd be eternally grateful.

All the best,
Czymra

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Czymra

Nevertheless, I am bothered why beauty can be abused for evil purposes. I know beauty is an entity which of itself has no alignment. But to see it as a tool feels wrong. Especially when facing the ideas of sex and pornography, I wonder where the line can be drawn.
I understand that the propagated obsession with sex and its effects but I can not settle the dichotomy between divine beauty and the evil it is used for.

I think you need to break down your train of thought into smaller parcels to get to the bottom of this.

Also, drawing lines and "feeling wrong" is simply a product of conditioning that you may find you need to do some work on.

It is entirely possible to separate beauty from the erotic. Particularly with regard to sex, and its distorted accomplice - pornography.

I am male, and I if I don't watch myself, I can be a bit of a lecher at times. Sydney in the summertime can be a distracting place! At the same time I have recognized when I wrestle my radar locator eyes from a nicely curved thigh, or a diaphanous form hugging dress, it is very similar to the discipline required in meditation; that is, the freeing of attachments to thoughts that come unbidden to my mind as I try to concentrate during meditation. However, I often try to work out why do I do that? Sometimes I can see a pretty girl in the same purity of light that I see a beautiful flower - ie: appreciation that is free from the sexual component. On the other hand I cannot deny the power of the sexual element of attraction either. Its all part of our rich experience.

Bottom line, its all there for a reason. The complexities in life we are faced with all resolve down to the various distortions that are necessarily part of the polarized reality we are experiencing.

A..

[Czymra]

You surely are my mentor tonight Anchor.
Thanks for that.

I think I have no problem shedding out the erotic from the beautiful. Obviously they go hand in hand in many cases but discerning what's what here is no problem.
I also agree with the conditioning aspect of it.
I suppose the core of my question is: Is beauty really diving and if so how could it be an aspect of either polarity? Is maybe that independence it's compelling feature?

But maybe that's like asking what the difference between loving a girlfriend and the rest of humankind is.

[Carmen]

Heres my two cents worth on this subject. All of life, people, animals, insects etc have a life-force, an intelligence animating them. This life-force can also be called God. To Love as God/Creator/Life-force Loves is to love the God-Force that animates all. Therefore one can love life in all of its manifestation, no matter what the outward appearance is.

Enlightened people access more of the Life-force called God. It is a true beauty that radiates outward.

[asteram]

Ten years or so ago Discover magazine had a cover article on beauty. It was a winner and has stuck with me since.

They took digital photos of beautiful people and combined them, looking for a composite of beauty or an ideal. They also took thousands of photos of ordinary and ugly people and combined them, looking for what makes "ordinary" and what makes "ugly".

Here's what they found: Beauty, so far a human faces go, is the same thing as average. Truly, that's what they found. If they took a thousand photos of random women's faces and digitally combined them, averaged them in other words, the resulting face was percieved as more beautiful than any of the individual faces.

I believe it has everything to do with our DNA and reproductive drive; the body consciousness or unconscious, RE reproduction, strives for the mean, not the extreme, in offspring. This is why one sees very short women marrying very tall men, and short guys lusting after tall girls: the reproductive consciousness of the body desires the offspring to be the average, not the extreme. QED, we perceive that which approaches closest to the overall average of human appearance as the most beautiful.

Note the famous National Geographic cover photo of the green-eyed refugee girl in Afghanistan: She is spectacularly average. Venezuela, where I live, is famous for its beautiful women. Venezuela is also a complete melting pot of races which average out.

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by asteram

Ten years or so ago Discover magazine had a cover article on beauty. It was a winner and has stuck with me since.

They took digital photos of beautiful people and combined them, looking for a composite of beauty or an ideal. They also took thousands of photos of ordinary and ugly people and combined them, looking for what makes "ordinary" and what makes "ugly".

Here's what they found: Beauty, so far a human faces go, is the same thing as average. Truly, that's what they found. If they took a thousand photos of random women's faces and digitally combined them, averaged them in other words, the resulting face was percieved as more beautiful than any of the individual faces.

I believe it has everything to do with our DNA and reproductive drive; the body consciousness or unconscious, RE reproduction, strives for the mean, not the extreme, in offspring. This is why one sees very short women marrying very tall men, and short guys lusting after tall girls: the reproductive consciousness of the body desires the offspring to be the average, not the extreme. QED, we perceive that which approaches closest to the overall average of human appearance as the most beautiful.

Note the famous National Geographic cover photo of the green-eyed refugee girl in Afghanistan: She is spectacularly average. Venezuela, where I live, is famous for its beautiful women. Venezuela is also a complete melting pot of races which average out.

Wow. I read a similar study but all it concluded is that the body needed to have 'sharp and distinct features' and the face 'soft and smooth features'.
If that doesn't sound like an american stereotype.

Thanks for sharing!

[Carmen]

Okay you guys, time to have a woman perspective on beauty. You are correct asheram, I agree with you about the average idea. Tall men are probably attractive to shorter woman. Strength of character, physical strength generally. The beauty of a man with fire in his belly. Someone with the courage of his convictions.


A beautiful form is empty without a beautiful mind. A beautiful man has music in his soul. A beautiful man, one whom you can look into his eyes and find such incredible depth, love and purpose. One who knows who he is, with a beautiful magical light in his eyes. The divine beauty of a awakened God/Man.

[rhythm]

I will definitley second that
carmen ,
all love rhythmm

[Carmen]

Oh I knew you would rhythm. I used to say I could never be with a man I could beat in a half-decent armwrestling competition!!!!! But seriously, as a person, man or woman developes, grows spiritually its the beauty of the soul and and the mind. There is no "end' to such a person, because they are alway growing, changing, developing. Initially the beauty of form attracts, but if it is not matched by a beauty within, its an empty vessell.

Love and Light

Carmen

[Dantheman62]

Ladies,Ladies,Ladies, hmmm...Did I mention I was single?...bwahahaha

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

Ladies,Ladies,Ladies, hmmm...Did I mention I was single?...bwahahaha

Dewd, great minds think alike.

Nicely spoken though, ladies (if I may say that). I've personally always been with women that were behind on those issues and felt more like daddy than anything else. I don't really feel like I want that but it's always a give and take. However on the spiritual side.. man, I don't think I've EVER met a spiritual woman (who wasn't completely off her cake [and I don't mean that in our the way that everyone here at Avalon is]).

[asteram]

Edgar Steele wrote about being given drugs to completely suppress his testosterone while he was being treated for prostate disease. He said for the first time since puberty he could look on women simply as other people. It brought him to the realization of how automatically he (we) judge the appearance of those of the opposite sex according to their potential as a sex partner. The point is, it's entirely a function of hormones: take the hormones away and it shuts down that whole part of the brain.

[Carmen]

I can add to that a little bit asteram. A statement I heard a few years back that the woman here may identify with. It was " Men look at women; women look at themselves being looked at (evaluated)!!!!" This was my experience also till I corrected that way of seeing. This way of "seeing" completely negates a woman "beingness" or their divine "self", and mans too when it done by woman. And don't get me wrong, woman do the same, although I do think its more recent in women

[asteram]

Hi Carmen-

Another aspect of it is judging others of our own sex as potential rivals in a reproductive sense. I see this more commonly in women than in men and it can cause great and unnecessary conflict.

As I pointed out at the Onwards thread, the MO of our controllers/users is to convince us we are simply animals. The drive to reproduction is powerful and ongoing on Earth, right up there with breathing and eating. Animals don't even have the potential to control it, it simply controls them. Conscious beings do have a say in the matter, or should I say potentially conscious beings potentially have a say in the matter. The lower the consciousness or level of awareness, the more hormone-controlled and animalistic the behavior will be.


Over the past few years, without taking any testosterone-suppressing drugs, I have somehow gone past the place of judging/categorizing members of the opposite sex as potential sex partners. It just happened in the course of other work, and it's quite a refreshing change of perspective to simply see people as people.

Although I still notice and appreciate the grace and beauty of youth, it's an aesthetic appreciation. I appreciate the physical changes of age and experience from the same aesthetic viewpoint and often find it much more interesting. It's not that my sex drive has changed; my point of view has changed. Some women find it disconcerting that their allure, wiles, and charms don't work on me, but the buttons that used to push seem to have disappeared.

[Carmen]

Yes Yes Dear Friend, my experience also. I could have written this post. I used to put women into catergories of threat/no threat, and treat them accordingly. I now enjoy both sexes equally. My friends are fabulous and all individuals. My woman friends are especially close, with lots of depth and intelligence.

Friends and companionship beyond sexuality is so freeing. I love it. My energy sits in and around my head, where my awareness is, not around my **** anymore (oops, must be the wine talking, I've just come back from the Avalon Lounge)

Its lovely to be in that place of no games anymore. Honesty and integrity is the name of the game. All enfolded in love. I certainly don't judge the game playing. We all did it, played the games, got the tee shirt. Learned the lessons and can observe the games of others in an unatached awareness.

This is not a dull place to be. I still have tremendous passion. Have'nt beiged out in any way. Just more complete and my own person.

And, by the way, Im very impressed with you using my quote. I ain't never had a quote of my own before!!!

Love and Light

Carmen

[Czymra]

It's interesting. Maybe I've always been more of a 'friend' type.

In my film studies I always come across this idea that film is abused for the observations of women as sex symbols. I can see why many films run like that but the argument that ALL film did was objectify women, that film as such is a male mode of seeing, I just can't agree with.
I haven't had the experience of 'no testosterone' but I think I can keep these two issues apart yet I began this thread.
I guess I have to go away and figure this for a while.
Thanks.

[asteram]

Czymra-

I didn't find your original post clear enough to say what focus you had. That's probably why the thread is going all over the place. I just read your first post again and I'm still not clear on what your topic or question are.

BTW: The point in my post and in Carmen's, I'm sure, is not cessation of hormonal activity. It is rising above or evolving beyond being controlled by hormones. Objectivity. Everything still goes along as usual physically, it's just that the body isn't running things anymore.

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by asteram

Czymra-

I didn't find your original post clear enough to say what focus you had. That's probably why the thread is going all over the place. I just read your first post again and I'm still not clear on what your topic or question are.

BTW: The point in my post and in Carmen's, I'm sure, is not cessation of hormonal activity. It is rising above or evolving beyond being controlled by hormones. Objectivity. Everything still goes along as usual physically, it's just that the body isn't running things anymore.

Rest assured that some things have been put in place for me, I thank you for that.
The original posting is not clear, because I am not sure what the issue is really about. I believe I have a backlog of 'actually sorted' issues that just have to come to awareness. I suppose it is all about finding that singularity beyond duality and the core of my dilemma was probably something like "How comes that humans can buy into the divine (beauty) to be abused for the evil (i.e. pornography)."
Now I don't have a problem with people having sex being filmed or watching that, but the mode of representation that typical pornography usually offers. I'm sure others can go in lengths about the meaning of all kinds of displayed 'rituals' but I'm sure my heart already tells me what is there for authenticity and what is there to 'corrupt'. My lack of understanding just sets in when you can see so many people craving for 'satisfaction' or exposure of all kinds of 'sexual acts' accompanied by the most willing persons (mostly women, and 'pretty' at that) in the most humiliating acts. And that's not even going into sadomasochism or fetish culture.

Understand that I am not concerned when people are aware of their wanting to live out domination and submission. I just find it disconcerting when these things enter what is being presented as 'usual' and how we are made to believe that it's a part of it.

Maybe I should open a thread on how mass media and pornography corrupts our perception of sex but I have the feeling it'll just get too explicit.

The problem is that the issue embarks on a question of morality or at least pseudo-morality. On another thread I already argued about 'perversion' but get the typical answer that there is no such thing and that all is one and that the 'bad' is in place for me to learn.
Fine, I can see that. I also believe that WE are held back as much by morality (don't cheat, don't hurt, be nice) as we are by notions like racism etc.

But something just isn't right. I feel there's a space in-between the issues I mentioned here that just isn't accounted for at all.

P.S.: It's funny you mention feminists. I won't argue with them but sometimes the "ALL IS ONE" attitude feels just the f***ing same. Sorry.

[asteram]

"the "ALL IS ONE" attitude feels just the f***ing same. "

That is because it is exactly the same. It is brainwashing. Are hot and cold the "same"?

Is a mountaintop the same as a canyon?

Evil exists. Pain exists. Light is not the same thing as darkness. There are evil people and evil acts going on in this world.

The "ALL IS ONE" attitude is just BS. Anyone I have ever met saying that has no personal experience to back it up. Besides which, on this dimension, all is not one. This is a plane of duality and one must get a few levels higher before duality ceases to exist.

There are all sorts of people posting here from all sorts of backgrounds. One group is those pushing the New Age blablabla. It irritates me as much as anyone else, but perhaps they will learn something here. I have done the work for many years. Anyone telling me that there is no such thing as evil, or that all one needs to do is send love to the evil, well, I know for sure they have not done the work.

Yes, love your enemies if that is what you wish to do with your energy. I neither love them nor hate them; I deal with them if I must, but I have better things to do with my energy than waste it on them. Don't fool yourself into thinking that the evil ones won't cut your head off while you are sending them love.

I hope you read my Onwards thread.

[Czymra]

Hm...I'll take my concerns here. If there is any more beauty/sex issues answer we can leave them here.

[Carmen]

Czymra you have much wisdom. That is obvious from your posts and you enquiry. I think I understand the question better now. In your profession as a filmmaker you meet attractive, beautiful young woman who are willing to be exploited sexually, with no qualms or standards.

They, to me, are a product of this society. They are brought up with TV on all the time from when they were babies. Their minds have been shaped by this mind control. The sex, violence and mindless activities of the television world and the advertising world are the images their young sub-conscious minds have assimilated, and will therefore reproduce in their lives. Just like a computer, garbage in, garbage out.

Their parents probably both worked full or part time to survive in this world, so they child is left at the TV as the babysitter. No interaction, or very little. Where, in such a life is their room for standards, love, guidance. Unless a young soul comes into this world with a powerful destiny, and parents who have some wisdom, young people of today become mindless pawns of a sick and loveless society.

You are awake at a young age, Csymra, that is fantastic. Morals are not something to be forced on anyone. When a person wakes up and rises in consciousness there are just things/actions that are not part of a higher level of consciousness. Its not a matter of forcing anything. Its sort of been there, done that, now what? People of a high level of consciousness have usually experienced all aspects of life. Either in this life or other lives. They now have the wisdom of all experience, not the denying of anything. The higher consciousnesses have a higher moral code that is just natural in them.

The problem, as I see it is that kids arent taught anything about eternity life, of spirit, of the dimentions.. They are held in a holding pattern of suppression and degradation, and with the increased energies we are experiencing on the planet now, all peoples tendencies are amplified. Loving people are more loving and expansive and negative, hateful, degraded people are more so. To me its the splitting of worlds happening now.

Maybe this may clarify? Or maybe not?

Love and Light

Carmen

[Carmen]

Another thought Czyma, maybe as a filmmaker, you are at the point of asking yourself. What is my role in this experience? Am I part of the problem here (of exploitation) or can I be part of the solution?

Just a thought

[asteram]

Czymra-

Give up on listening to the radical feminists. They are brainwashed and not worth wasting time on. A real woman knows she can be a woman and not have to try to be a man. That extreme end of the liberation movement was created by the Tavistock Institute with the express purpose of destroying the traditional family so the State could have full control.

One might as well try to have a logical conversation with Christian Zionists as with brainwashed feminists. It isn't going to happen. If a person can't tell the difference between pornography and art, or the difference between honoring beauty and exploiting it, that person is not worth wasting a thought on.

[asteram]

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