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truthseeker · 07-18-2009, 07:03 AM

Hi Guy's,

Not commented much lately, largely because of some rather unpleasant difficulties with one of our neighbours over the last six months or so.

However, I feel I have to comment here on Ian Lungold's primary source for the Mayan Calendar, which is none other than Carl Johan Calleman.

The Calleman version of the Mayan Calendar is his alone and seems to have little basis within the Mayan tradition. I wrote extensively on this last year, so I refer all here to my comments then. They can be found repeated in the following 3 posts that I made: -

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...8610#post58610
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...1792#post11792
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...=9082#post9082

Calleman has claimed that his version of the Mayan Calendar is backed by the Mayan elder, Don Alejandro. However, John Major Jenkins shows, very satisfactorily to my mind, that Calleman has distorted the facts here. Please read the following links to Jenkins site: -

http://alignment2012.com/eldersand2012-exchange.html
http://alignment2012.com/eldersand2012.html

None of this means that their is no truth in what either Calleman or Lungold present. From the video of Lungold (now sadly deceased) he would seem to have been a very spiritual man. We do seem to be rapidly moving toward a singularity moment in the near future, whether that be in 2011, 2012, 2013 or whatever.

Finally, slightly off topic, but relating to my posts referenced above, I have a few further quick comments to make on the galactic alignment we are currently experiencing . According to my Starry Night Astronomy programme the December Solstice Sun eclipses or occults the galactic equator as it crosses the ecliptic (path of Sun trough Earth's sky) from 1976 to 2019 (dead centre in 1998). This occurs between the constellations of Scorpio and Sagittarius. At the other point where the galactic equator and ecliptic cross (i.e. between the constellations of Gemini and Taurus), the June Solstice Sun does precisely the same thing from 1977 to 2019.

In my humble opinion, from an astrological, and thus acausal, perspective, this galactic alignments significance is huge. However, astronomically speaking, within the material world of cause and effect, it is of little consequence, as the alignment is a very local phenomenon that relates only to our planet. Thus, there is absolutely no reason to expect a series of ‘cause and effect’ physical events in association with this alignment. However, physical and non-physical events that have a more acausal correspondence (synchronistic) to the underlying symbology of this alignment are very likely.

The concept of our solar system crossing our galactic plane is an entirely different phenomenon to the galactic alignment we are here referring to. Many have confused the two. According to current astronomical theory our solar system bobs up and down across the galactic plane very slowly over its 225 -250 million year orbit around the centre of our galaxy. The jury is still out as to exactly how far away we are from the galactic plane at the current time. Here are a number of links to various estimates (estimates of our distance above galactic plane, thanks to one Zyzygyz on Geoff Stray’s 2012 Dire Gnosis website): -

1. We are 20.5 +/- 3.5 parsecs north of the galactic plane - 1 parsec = 3.26 light years so this gives us 66.83 +/- 11.41 ly ( http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1995AJ....110.2183H).
2. We are 33 parsecs north of the galactic plane = 107.6 ly (http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/13/6/387.pdf).
3. We are 34.56 +/- 0.56 pc north of the galactic plane = 112.67 +/- 1.83 ly (http://www.springerlink.com/content/rg545302618n0673/).
4. We are 19.5 +/- 2.2 pc north of the galactic plane = 63.57 ly +/- 7.17 ly
(http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0507/0507655.pdf).
5. We are about 20 light-years "above" the equatorial symmetry plane (http://seds.org/messier/more/mw.html).
6. We are about 14 light years above the equatorial symmetry plane (http://www.astrodigital.org/astronom...temgalaxy.html).
7. We are about 20 light years north of the galactic plane (http://calgary.rasc.ca/howfast.htm).
8. We are 68 light-years north of the galactic plane (http://www.mndaily.com/daily/1995/11/16/news/space/).
9. We are 50 light-years above the mid-plane of the galaxy
(http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsolsysspeed.html).

The bottom line here is that our solar system is probably not crossing the galactic plane at the present time. Even if it were, owing to the long periods of time involved, it would be virtually impossible to specify a particular century, let alone year or day upon which such a crossing occurred. So claims that the 21st December 2012 marks such a crossing of the galactic plane are at best meaningless and at worst plane wrong.

Anyway, that will do now. I am off to Wales camping with my wife for a week. It will be nice to get away from our neighbours for a while, despite the rather wet weather forecast for the next few days..

Take Care and Best Wishes to you all,

Truthseeker (Andrew)

07-18-2009, 07:03 AM	#35
truthseeker Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Near Halifax, W. Yorks, England Posts: 26	Re: Is 2012 Doom and Gloom Fiction? Hi Guy's, Not commented much lately, largely because of some rather unpleasant difficulties with one of our neighbours over the last six months or so. However, I feel I have to comment here on Ian Lungold's primary source for the Mayan Calendar, which is none other than Carl Johan Calleman. The Calleman version of the Mayan Calendar is his alone and seems to have little basis within the Mayan tradition. I wrote extensively on this last year, so I refer all here to my comments then. They can be found repeated in the following 3 posts that I made: - http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...8610#post58610 http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...1792#post11792 http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...=9082#post9082 Calleman has claimed that his version of the Mayan Calendar is backed by the Mayan elder, Don Alejandro. However, John Major Jenkins shows, very satisfactorily to my mind, that Calleman has distorted the facts here. Please read the following links to Jenkins site: - http://alignment2012.com/eldersand2012-exchange.html http://alignment2012.com/eldersand2012.html None of this means that their is no truth in what either Calleman or Lungold present. From the video of Lungold (now sadly deceased) he would seem to have been a very spiritual man. We do seem to be rapidly moving toward a singularity moment in the near future, whether that be in 2011, 2012, 2013 or whatever. Finally, slightly off topic, but relating to my posts referenced above, I have a few further quick comments to make on the galactic alignment we are currently experiencing . According to my Starry Night Astronomy programme the December Solstice Sun eclipses or occults the galactic equator as it crosses the ecliptic (path of Sun trough Earth's sky) from 1976 to 2019 (dead centre in 1998). This occurs between the constellations of Scorpio and Sagittarius. At the other point where the galactic equator and ecliptic cross (i.e. between the constellations of Gemini and Taurus), the June Solstice Sun does precisely the same thing from 1977 to 2019. In my humble opinion, from an astrological, and thus acausal, perspective, this galactic alignments significance is huge. However, astronomically speaking, within the material world of cause and effect, it is of little consequence, as the alignment is a very local phenomenon that relates only to our planet. Thus, there is absolutely no reason to expect a series of ‘cause and effect’ physical events in association with this alignment. However, physical and non-physical events that have a more acausal correspondence (synchronistic) to the underlying symbology of this alignment are very likely. The concept of our solar system crossing our galactic plane is an entirely different phenomenon to the galactic alignment we are here referring to. Many have confused the two. According to current astronomical theory our solar system bobs up and down across the galactic plane very slowly over its 225 -250 million year orbit around the centre of our galaxy. The jury is still out as to exactly how far away we are from the galactic plane at the current time. Here are a number of links to various estimates (estimates of our distance above galactic plane, thanks to one Zyzygyz on Geoff Stray’s 2012 Dire Gnosis website): - 1. We are 20.5 +/- 3.5 parsecs north of the galactic plane - 1 parsec = 3.26 light years so this gives us 66.83 +/- 11.41 ly ( http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1995AJ....110.2183H). 2. We are 33 parsecs north of the galactic plane = 107.6 ly (http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/13/6/387.pdf). 3. We are 34.56 +/- 0.56 pc north of the galactic plane = 112.67 +/- 1.83 ly (http://www.springerlink.com/content/rg545302618n0673/). 4. We are 19.5 +/- 2.2 pc north of the galactic plane = 63.57 ly +/- 7.17 ly (http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0507/0507655.pdf). 5. We are about 20 light-years "above" the equatorial symmetry plane (http://seds.org/messier/more/mw.html). 6. We are about 14 light years above the equatorial symmetry plane (http://www.astrodigital.org/astronom...temgalaxy.html). 7. We are about 20 light years north of the galactic plane (http://calgary.rasc.ca/howfast.htm). 8. We are 68 light-years north of the galactic plane (http://www.mndaily.com/daily/1995/11/16/news/space/). 9. We are 50 light-years above the mid-plane of the galaxy (http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsolsysspeed.html). The bottom line here is that our solar system is probably not crossing the galactic plane at the present time. Even if it were, owing to the long periods of time involved, it would be virtually impossible to specify a particular century, let alone year or day upon which such a crossing occurred. So claims that the 21st December 2012 marks such a crossing of the galactic plane are at best meaningless and at worst plane wrong. Anyway, that will do now. I am off to Wales camping with my wife for a week. It will be nice to get away from our neighbours for a while, despite the rather wet weather forecast for the next few days.. Take Care and Best Wishes to you all, Truthseeker (Andrew)