[murnut]

Originally Posted by TheGhost

That's not what I'm saying, murnut. I am not saying any specific 'crime' is moral or just. Reversing my argument like you have tried to do is not an appropriate response.

Ghost...I like you...this is just a friendly debate.

I realize that my opinion is the minority

Originally Posted by TheGhost

The fact that this kind of information (extraterrestrial life, free energy) is surpressed is detrimental to the ENTIRE human race.

There is no proof that what you allude to is the case.

There could be excellent reasons why nothing has been released...the main one being that the PtB, govts are just as clueless as the rest of us.

You could never believe this...right?

Spy and counter spy releases aimed at foreign powers with those in the ufo community as hapless messengers of convenience.

It is well known the CIA promoted ufo's as cover for Advanced Jets.

Gee...ya think they would let it slip that we have reversed engineered a saucer to keep the enemies of the USA guessing?

Originally Posted by TheGhost

If hacking is what was necessary to get hold of some of this information then yes, it was justified.

I expect you would counter this with something like, 'Well, if murder is what was necessary would you say that was justified, too?'

My response would be 'yes'. I don't support murdering people or starting wars; I would like to think that people are more intelligent than having to resort to it. But if people did not resist what they consider to be tyranny to the ultimate extent (causing the death of those who are oppressing you) would the United States of America ever have existed?

So if it is morally correct...why won't Gary stand up?

Originally Posted by TheGhost

Also, this is the reason you have the second amendment. It is not simply about being allowed to own a gun. It allows for the PEOPLE to maintain a well armed militia to be used as a last resort (asuming all other avenues of resistance have been exhausted) against the GOVERNMENT when it inevitably 'goes bad' (as power tends to corrupt).
The founders would not have put it in there if they didn't think it might be necessary, one day. The US government went bad a long time ago and it has been metastasising ever since. Now it looks like the whole body is about to go into total system failure.

What? You don't believe the Obama hype?

Originally Posted by TheGhost

You might think that my point of view is a little extreme but consider this: a slave sees an opportunity to get away from his slave-master, to freedom, but he has to kill the slave-master first. The kind of person who would own a slave is not the kind of person who would take any notice of the protests of the slave.
He would laugh at his requests to be set free. He would have fits of laughter, rolling on the floor, over the slave's protests that he should have equal rights as the slave-master and be treated equally and fairly. If the slave became aggressive he would be physically assaulted to put him back in line. If the slave became uncooperative he would not be fed till he started 'behaving' again.
The only 'protest' left open to the slave is to kill the person who considers him to be their property. In this situation the slave's actions are perfectly justified. The slave has a birth right (or God-given right, if you want to think of it in those terms) to be free. The slave-master has absolutely no rights over the slave whatsoever. The slave-master is committing a crime against nature. The slave's actions are restoring the natural order.

Comparing Gary's case to slavery is ridiculous...imo.

Originally Posted by TheGhost

Your argument that the UFO community should only stick to 'legal' means is ridiculous. You are like the slave tugging on the tailcoats of your slave-master asking for him to be nice to you, to throw you a few more crumbs from the dinner table for your supper.
You accept your position as subserviant to the government or the PTB or the inteligence agencies or the secret societies or whoever. You are NOT subserviant. You have as much right to all this information as they do. If they won't give it to you you have to be prepared to take it.

Do we have a right to know what the govts know about anything?

What about God?

Are they covering up that as well?

And if they actually did release what little they do know...you Ghost will not believe it.

Do you believe the official 9-11 story?

I am sure you do not.

Why turn to the govt for your truth when they are clearly not in the truth business?

All through time govts have lied to the people for various reasons...would you agree?

This I can guarantee...100%...disclosure when and if it comes, will not be what you expect, nor will it resemble in any way..."truth"

Originally Posted by TheGhost

Operate within legal means all you can, but all they have to do is pass another law to make your previously legal actions illegal. Then what are you going to do? Give up, forget about it, be a good little slave? Serve them well, murnut, they might let you eat at the dinner table one day, who knows?
Freedom of Information Act requests with regard to UFOs or free energy technology or anything THEY want kept secret are simply laughed at. The legal means of fight the PTB have long been exhausted.

If the ufo community desires respect from the other 90% of the worlds population, then the U.C. has to be ever vigilant...not to lie, not commit crimes of any kind, not to use the same tactics that have been used against us.

Because then we are no better than those who you perceive to "oppress" us.

New Boss, Same as the old Boss...remember that song?

Originally Posted by TheGhost

Murnut, you really need to get over this 'legal' nonsense. Most of the actions of the government in Nazi Germany were legal. The actions of the Soviet empire within its territories were legal. Governments pass laws all the time to make their crimes 'legal' (for example, the recent theft by the US government of $700B from you, your children, your grandchildren - the wealth of future generations stolen from them before a lot of them have even been born). Big Brother is not a benevolent big brother. He is a nasty, stinking piece of 5h1t that needs to be flushed down the fcuking toilet!

To be replaced by who or what exactly?

Govts...ALL govts (Big Brother) are about control and always will be.

The Utopia you desire cannot happen while we are actually still human.

I wish I could tell you differently, but this is a sad fact.

Now I was against the 700 billion and counting bailout that is a theft.

But hacking a bank or the govt would not get me any where except jail.

So I won't do that, because I am thinking about the consequences of my actions in the actual society I live in...not some utopia where one decides that the morality of the ufo cover up is the same as human slavery, and therefore the ends justifies the means.

If Gary really believed this as you have written Ghost...he would have stood up and faced the charges like a man.

But he does not believe as you do Ghost, he is using you.