[Steven]

Originally Posted by Jnana

...I've read many similar stories and I understand that living with this is a very difficult thing, but I'm sorry to say it does not prove your point that negative ETs exist...

I disagree, in this little story, the aliens have violating her freewill. This is enough to me to qualify them as "negative", not respectful of our sovereignty. And this is only one story, there are thousands like this throughout the world and history. You can not simply deny all the people who lived similar events.

If for you assuming there might be a chance their actions were for the best of humanity, or the best of their race, it is your perspective, but a dangerous one. You have no proof either to say their action were "positive", especially when freewill of the people involved was violated.

If it was for the best of humanity or their race, then why doing it secretly, violating freewill, causing trauma? By fear we wouldn't accept? By fear we would be revolted with fear of them? Then if it is the case, no need to impose it on us, it only perpetrate victim consciousness on Earth. There is no good out of it either, we are adults after all. And who are they to force us to be saved?

Originally Posted by Jnana

...The fact of the matter is that neither you nor I know why they are doing this...

Ignoring the reason of their acts does not either tells that all ETs are "positive". It rather strongly suggest the opposite. Remember, this statement made by Greer is what brought my argument.

Originally Posted by Jnana

...I have read a number of cases where reasons were revealed to the subjects, and in most cases it is for the benefit of humanity...

If only one case among them shows that it was not for the benefit of humanity, it is enough to say that all ETs aren't positive and we must be careful with it.

The inhabitant of our Galaxy are not all positive, nor all negative. We are a microcosm of the Galaxy. Humanity holds the best and the worse, just like our Galaxy. The idea of all ETs are positive is dangerous because it can expose us to more influence and manipulation from the ones active in the intervention.

Originally Posted by Jnana

...There may even be several different programs running with several different goals, depending on how we choose to destroy the planet: 1) a program to provide a body that can survive on a more polluted planet with more adverse weather conditions, 2) a program to provide a body with enhanced psi capabilities and better health for those who move on to a 4D/5D world, 3) a program to populate a new planet from scratch as a redo of the experiment that failed here on Earth for various reasons. Generally it is stated that the individual agreed to participate in the program prior to incarnating...

Now, that's a lot of assumptions... I wouldn't base my conclusion on ETs abduction, interbreed, genetic manipulation, mental influence, etc... on these assumptions just to justify an idea of all ETs being "positive". That is simply way too risky...

See, what is at stake here is not only important, it is crucial. We are talking about our sovereignty as specie. It is not something I would risk just for the benefit of being open to first contact. And more, there is no need at all to believe all ETs are "positive" to make first contact. It is not a prerequisite. I am afraid Greer is being manipulated spreading this dangerous statement.

It might be all fabricated explanations to justify the intervention.

Originally Posted by Jnana

...The cases where such programs are not for the benefit of humanity have to do with an ET race that is dying out due to mistakes they have made. They are trying to create a new body that will help their race survive. I've seen a few versions of this. Again, I would not classify this action as "negative". Given the choice, I would volunteer to help such a race survive rather than deny them existence. However, it is not entirely clear to me why they need to customize a body for this purpose...

This is your choice, but I do classify these action as "negative" even if it is for the survival of their race. They are still committing a very grave mistake in violating our freewill and will certainly not bring them much grace upon their race if it is indeed the case.

Alex Collier mentioned there are four different kind of "intelligent" species in our Galaxy. Hydrogen, oxygen, ammonia and methanol based lifeforms. All humans are oxygen based while the "greys" and the "reptilians" are hydrogen based. I will not get into details, but the hydrogen based have a large disadvantage compared to oxygen based lifeforms when travelling distant time/space. That is why they have become excellent genetic manipulators...

Originally Posted by Jnana

...If the intervention is intended to ensure the survival of humanity, why would you choose to counter it?...

Because it is an assumption, and all evidence are pointing out the opposite. Not only that, but many contactee from other "positive" alien alliances have written thousands of pages telling the same thing. See "Allies of Humanity" book2 from Marshall Vian Summers as example. "Handbooks for the New Paradigm" also points out the same conclusion, just to mention a few...

Originally Posted by Jnana

...As I said before, from our limited perspective we often do not understand why certain things are being done. Reacting to hardship and calling it the result of a "negative" action is understandable, but not necessarily correct...

And when someone of our camp is briefed to have a greater perspective of what's going on on Earth, we simply discredit him because it is a "negative" view of our situation? Remember, I am not saying all ETs are negative, I am saying it is wrong to assume all ETs are positive, from Greer's statement...

Originally Posted by Jnana

...Since this is a Dr. Steven Greer thread, I'll throw this in. Greer often talks about how people react to hardship using the example of a young child in an emergency ward. In order to save the child, the doctor must insert a catheter into the child's chest right now with no anesthesia. How would that child view the doctor's actions? Would that view be correct? Greer never states what he has in mind in the ET world when he presents this example. I have my own ideas about that, and it includes stories such as the one you shared...

First, we are not children. We are a specie, mature enough to discuss freely if we need to be saved or not. I don't believe we need external force to help us without our consent. Why would they want to save us? Without telling us about it? That's a bigger assumption than saying they are violating our freedom and freewill in committing these acts.

Originally Posted by Jnana

...There is a spiritual hierarchy, and there is considerable evidence to support this. I'm not entirely sure you are denying the existence of our spiritual aspect, but that's what it sounds like here. I also think there is more to universal law than free will...

Hierarchy is not the proper word, we are all equal in Creation, all. The proper word would be mentoring, or guide. Hierarchy implies rulers, which is not the case in the spiritual realm. I am not denying our spiritual essence. I am defending it. We are souls, extension of the Creation. Freewill is not a Law, it is a Principle. You can not deny a Universal Law, but you can choose to deny Freewill. Freewill is the guideline Creation choose to expand itself. Those who do not consider it are free to do so, it is a paradox, but also logical. The backlash is that when you do not respect freewill, you deny to yourself the grace of Creation upon your life. Is this sound like denying our spiritual aspect?

Originally Posted by Jnana

...It would not be an abduction because I have requested it. I am not afraid of ET contact. I am not afraid of death. I would very much like to be able to provide a report on what these guys are doing from conscious memory, without the aid of hypnosis, so that people can really know what is going on and why. I'm willing to take that risk. If they say it's because we taste like chicken, that's what I would report. The fact is that others have already been there and done this. Jim Sparks is one (book "The Keepers")...

There are many cases of first contact where the ETs were doing it in a positive purpose. I am not talking about these. Alex Collier is also one I would mentioned among many who has been contacted by Ets which came out as a positive overall experience where is sovereignty was never violated. Now, your courage is certainly praiseworthy, but the thousands who have lived very "negative" trauma caused by violating their body and freewill would certainly have some lessons to teach you before taking off... You seem to see it lightly...

You are showing an attitude of accepting to be ruled by some more advanced species in the hope of improving our future. I energetically propose "mentoring" instead of "ruling" without our consent violating our freewill and sovereignty.

Nevertheless, I enjoyed arguing with you, I feel respected and hope I did induce the same respect in my words.

Namaste, Steven