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-   -   Why making God unfashionable never works.. (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20133)

orthodoxymoron 02-19-2010 08:05 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 240650)
Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
God and Theocracy are inseparable. I much prefer a Representative Republic.

I think its a question of use of words.
Words mean what I say they mean. (The Queen in Alice in wonderland)

I dont accept that God and Theocracy are inseparable.
I am not of any religion never have been but draw from many.
I dont follow any teacher but draw from many.
I respect all.
Spirituality is much as you describe ie within.
Cuts out the middle man, have a direct line so to speak.
We are waves of the Divine ocean with could at a stretch be likened to a Representative Republic.
However the wave cannot say it is the Ocean,

My understanding of what God is has moved a long way from the God of the bible.
At present my main teacher is Dr Hawkins who was a devout Christian - gave up on God, became an atheist because he couldent believe in a god who would allow the suffering there is in this world, in the depth of his personal hell and dying of an incurable disease he called out.
"If there is a God I ask him for help" After a period of indescribable agony " God shock" he awoke ego less in the state of non-duality - enlightened freed from the bondage of ignorance. Years were spent there after in solitude in a bliss state. Thirty years went bye before he could language what had happened.

Of myself I know nothing but i trust those who know and there are very few of those as yet but the number is increasing.

Chris

Show me a Theocracy Without a God. How about a God Without a Theocracy? God's Law = Fascist (so says Jordan Maxwell). Man's Law = Justice (so says Jordan Maxwell). I may not have gotten that exactly right. Notice the Fascist Symbols and 'In God We Trust' at the front of the Senate Chambers in Washington D.C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8qPXK8RKDI I know what you are speaking of...and I respect that. What I am concerned about is a Trojan Horse phenomenon...wherein people's legitimate and genuine devotional lives are hijacked and corrupted into an enslavement of the soul...by using God's name in vain. Isn't that a sin?

In a sense...a Government is a Church...and a Church is a Government. They are two sides of the same coin. The question is 'What is the nature of the Church and the Government?' A "Constitutional Theocracy is a form of government in which within the context of a modern democracy a particular religion is granted a central role in the legal and political system. In contrast to a pure theocracy, power resides in political figures operating within the bounds of a constitution, rather than religious leadership. A form of government (also referred to as a system of government or a political system) is a system composed of various people, institutions and their relations in regard to the governance of a state. ... Theocracy is a form of government in which a religion and the government are intertwined..." http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...onal-theocracy Could the United States of America be under a Constitutional Theocracy presently? Could the United States of America have always been under such a Constitutional Theocracy? See Article 6 of the U.S. Constitution. Was the 1954 Greada treaty simply an extension of this hypothetical Constitutional Theocracy? http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/future.htm Is the U.N. Charter superceding the U.S. Constitution a further expansion of a Constitutional Theocracy? To stop preaching...and go to meddling...How would the Roman Catholic Church function if it were based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...and was in complete harmony with the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Teachings of Jesus? Would a Pope be elected by the general membership every four years? Would the Teachings of Jesus, the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Will of the People...supercede Canon Law, the Curia, the Pope, the Black Pope (and whoever the Black Pope takes orders from)? Would this create chaos...or would it minimize evil and corruption? For Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom to work...the Roman Catholic Church would have to go along with it...and looking at history...this would be nearly impossible. The RCC is the biggest 'We Never Change Church' imaginable. The Sirius Powers That Be would have to order it done...or it would be a non-starter. For Sirius (and Alpha Draconis?) to sign-off on this...We the People of Earth would have to exhibit a significant level of Knowledge and Responsibility. There is presently a Forbidden Knowledge Explosion...and the BIG question is 'Will We the People of Earth Respond Responsibly?' How about a non-penetential and non-sacrificial Ecumenical Namaste Mass based upon the Latin Mass...Celebrating the Divinity Within Humanity? Now I'm really meddling! I'm an abominable heretic...yet I prefer the glory, grandeur, reverence, and awe of the traditional service...rather than the 'Jesus is my buddy, show-up in shorts and a t-shirt, praise-song, hippie reefer-madness'.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94sa1Byb7fw 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP5guVydW7w&NR=1 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4PO...eature=related 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq8i6...eature=related 5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBjqrPAUg8&NR=1

greybeard 02-19-2010 09:10 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
[QUOTE=Humble Janitor;240669]Since when were moral values exclusively Christian? They exist in all cultures. Also, why should organized religion dictate what people do, what they say and how they react? People are still free to worship their god. They're still free to speak. Are they not satisfied unless 95% of the rest of the country is following their god?

Oh Humble Janitor.
If you read my posts you will not see me say any where that that moral values are exclusively Christian. One teacher said its good to be brought up in a religion bad to die in one. I am not repeat of any religion but I had a Scottish upbringing which is open minded reguarding all religions and none. The society was Christian and the ub bringing reflected that. I would have been just as happy born in to any society which had values and respect for me.
Yes its not the 1950s I grew up in the swinging 60s sex drugs and rock and roll.
Wasent into drugs cept alchol. Played in a rock band. We had respect for parents each other etc. there was an amazing a,mount of freedom. Authority has taken that away,
I agree that now there is a lot in authority now that is not worrhy of respect.
So actually in many ways we are in agreement.
The trouble with wighting on a forum is that you can be judged on a few words, the context of where I am and where you are is quite different from a few words.
In essence Im saying respect is necessary to have a free world.

Regards Chris

orthodoxymoron 02-19-2010 09:24 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
People should probably study psychology, ethics, philosophy, and theology...and then think and do whatever makes sense and is responsible. I just wish for people to be good people...in their own unique way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYjcNR7W-Ow

:original:Namaste:original:

greybeard 02-19-2010 09:35 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron (Post 240699)
People should probably study psychology, ethics, philosophy, and theology...and then think and do whatever makes sense and is responsible. I just wish for people to be good people...in their own unique way.

:original:Namaste:original:

Yes I did study those things in search of truth and like you wish the best for people.
To my mind people who have no faith of any kind but are kind and loving are just as "spiritual" as those who send a lifetime meditating.

Regarding other things being said.
Personally I have no need of external structure regarding spirituality but accept that I am dependent on others for the essentials of life.
Whatever works.
Namaste
chris

kriya 02-19-2010 10:10 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron (Post 240617)
God and Theocracy are inseparable. I much prefer a Representative Republic. There should never be an unquestionable ultimate authority. A true God would not play the part of God. A true God would not accept worship and praise. Does an intelligent deity facilitate my continued biological and spiritual function...in a direct way? My current view is that Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. No Exceptions.

Is your Supremely Intelligent God of Pure Love an actual being...or simply a conceptualization? I believe in high ethical and psychological standards...but an enthroned deity is a hindrance rather than a help in this regard. Does Love = Submission? (all too often?) Does Submission = Enslavement? (all too often?) I just think we have a God/Satan problem in this Universe. No proof. I'm simply testing the theory. So far...after months of posts...there has been very little serious discussion or any detailed critiques of this view. It's as if everyone is behind me in this venture. Way Behind Me.

God just wants our love. That's it. You have the power to accept or reject that, God has no power over you, if you do not wish it.

Paramahansa Yogananda said, that God does not know how great he is, otherwise he wouldn't be that great - no ego!!.

If you meditate upon God, sincerely, you will get your proof! And yes you are right in order to become God conscious you have to submit, but this is really about destroying ego, not about enslavement.

Lastly, Ortho, I think people have tried to answer your questions to the best of their ability, but you choose not to accept them, which is a different matter all together.

We all follow our own paths, right?:original:

greybeard 02-19-2010 11:33 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
It all comes down to your spiritual goal.
If you believe in enlightenment -- free from ignorance, if your goal is enlightenment,
then its simple, not easy but simple.
Listen to a teacher either one who is currently on tis planet or one who attained that state before leaving this world.
They all say the same thing.

(The Self of the teacher and the Self of the student are the same ie Holy Spirit)

My current main teacher says
"Straight and narrow is the path, waste no time"

There may be many methods of being on the path but it is the same path in my opinion.

The spiritual circus (new age) leads no where.
Tried and tested, thousands of years of subjective experience, leads to Truth, there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

Not saying anything I post is right, just my understanding of this moment.

Regards Chris

aroundthetable 02-19-2010 11:56 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 240722)
It all comes down to your spiritual goal.
If you believe in enlightenment -- free from ignorance, if your goal is enlightenment,
then its simple, not easy but simple.

My current main teacher says
"Straight and narrow is the path, waste no time"

There may be many methods of being on the path but it is the same path in my opinion.

The spiritual circus (new age) leads no where.
Tried and tested, thousands of years of subjective experience, leads to Truth, there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

Not saying anything I post is right, just my understanding of this moment.

Regards Chris

Very well put Chris. Clear and concise and not stumbling over words games. I think ill write something on the words religion and spirituality as there (and always will be) different views about this. To me the first litmus test is regardless of terminology are they referring to a process that ultimately leads to love of the supreme person, i call Krishna. If yes, then either word will do.
If not, then no matter what word is used the process is itself flawed, but may still refer to itself as religion or spirituality. Hence the fads, cliques and movements throughout the ages fall inevitably by the wayside, because ultimately they are not nourishing the soul.

aroundthetable 02-19-2010 12:19 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriya (Post 240710)
God just wants our love. That's it. You have the power to accept or reject that, God has no power over you, if you do not wish it.

Paramahansa Yogananda said, that God does not know how great he is, otherwise he wouldn't be that great - no ego!!.

If you meditate upon God, sincerely, you will get your proof! And yes you are right in order to become God conscious you have to submit, but this is really about destroying ego, not about enslavement.

Lastly, Ortho, I think people have tried to answer your questions to the best of their ability, but you choose not to accept them, which is a different matter all together.

We all follow our own paths, right?:original:

Well put Kriya.

Better people than i could answer all questions and bring freedom from all doubts, for that is the test of a process that works. So after many years of frustration, sadness, anxiety and misery, i eventually kind of sat myself down and said Ok God, ive had enough of this, ive been trying to figure it all out, ive been trying to 'save the world' and the result has been this sad individual now no use to anybody. I believe it was my first really sincere prayer. Somehow or another i felt better for it so i continued to practice thinking in this way, i slowly let go of my arrogance and i slowly let go of the feeling of personal responibilities for the worlds problems. Infact it was the suffering of animals that ultimately broke my spirit. Now i realise that as long as i do the right things myself ( no im not perfect and have no wish to be) the rest is Gods problem!!! I have been happier for this and have been able to bring some good things to the people i meet in my life.

Frank Samuel 02-19-2010 01:03 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Believe it or not in theology school we all debated everything specially the authenticity of our believes. Soon enough I discover that stepping away from organize religion gave me the freedom to explore the term God without organize religion imposing their views. Is like going to a mountain to meditate. The quietude of establishing a pure connection. The need for books and debates about God was over. We all are free to explore, our journey is long. It does not matter what theological believes you have if you have not transcended beyond your believes. In order words finding your true self is what matters. For too long humanity has been mislead and whether we like it or not organize religion share a lot of that burden. We have help the ptb to enslave humanity through keeping people control by a particular belief. The time to reclaim our sovereignty is now . I will not give a moment of my time to organize religion I have wasted too much of it already. The remainder of my life I want to spend it serving others instead of myself. By simply loving others without imposing my views. Time to go and do just that. No offense to anyone .:naughty:

greybeard 02-19-2010 01:14 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Thanks for your kind words aroundthetable.

This next bit only applies to those serious about spiritual progress on the path to enlightenment, it may save you some time.

The Avatars / mystics told it as it is, no secrets, nothing held back.

There are those who talk about it and those who are it.
I can know about a cat but only the cat knows what it is.

My knowledge is mainly second hand but comes from reading and spending time with those who are in that state, some of my own experiences confirmed what they say is so.

At the final door of enlightenment, Dan Brown will not be there to help you through, numerology will not help, all the "secrets of the pyramids" will not help, knowledge of crop circles will not help, UFOs will not be there, nothing that is of form will help,.
These other things may well have there place in this world but are not of the realm that you originated from or are returning to.

The Mystic is a bridge between form and formless.

At the final door of enlightenment you will face fear as the one and only death that is possible, the death of the ego, is about to occur, at that point you have choice, give into the fear and return to duality and ignorance, or walk straight ahead no matter what.

The ones who have gone through before you will wordlessly support you through this if you choose to continue.
Only God walks through the final door.
God is what you are when all that is not God is surrendered.

If you disagree fine im, just the messenger so to speak.

Wishing you well.
Chris

beren 02-19-2010 01:35 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Humble Janitor (Post 240669)
Since when were moral values exclusively Christian? They exist in all cultures. Also, why should organized religion dictate what people do, what they say and how they react? People are still free to worship their god. They're still free to speak. Are they not satisfied unless 95% of the rest of the country is following their god?

I have many questions for the moral values crowd and their claims of a politically-correct movement, etc.

While a majority of society is full of rude, childish people, there will always be a select few that stand out as kind, caring and honorable. Why does their religion matter so much?

As for respect for authority? Authority does not respect the people. Why should the people respect authority? I'm not going to respect cops, soldiers and teachers until they respect me. Their willingness to fight unjust wars and enforce unjust laws is a disrespect to people. Teachers that suppress the creativity of students are just as bad.

This isn't the 1950s anymore. People have gotten wiser over time.


Humble Janitor,

I understand you. But I think you tend as Ortohoxymoron too, to waste your energy on too many questions and opinions.
Looking like confused person. Now I do not mean anything bad by stating that ,just I feel you're like that.

Problem lies in programmed human brain. For example nothing is or could be branded as someone's particularly morality. Air we breathe ,food we eat and everything we use here on Earth is not ours. Unfortunately we think that is.
Man made religions and religious institutions and then selfishly stated that something is HIS...
I explained this before but I will repeat it again.
Christ - means deliverer, messiah, redeemer. It is not a last name of Jesus. It is a title.
A deliverer from darkness and evil.
Therefore whom ever wants to carry that term on his name , must be as Jesus. Must behave ,think and do things like Jesus did.
Well we are not perfect so we can not do 100% as him but as we try more , the more we will be holy as he was and is.
That means to be a Christian.

It has nothing to do with any religion on Earth. But see, they (religions and their masters) like to steal as their master is a thief, they like to steal from others and present it as their ownership. Catholics or Orthodox or Protestants ... What are they??? They called themselves Christian...but are they? Are they holy in their lives?
Do they deliver people from darkness and evil???
NO.
Most of them -no.

So using common sense ,one can see that they are masqueraded in "Christianity" ,but are in fact far away from it.

Why they do not call them selves Christians? Why they like and prefer to name them selves Catholics,Protestants,Adventists,Orthodox ,Jehovah Witnesses, Baptists,Nazarenes,Anglicans...........
Why not just Christians?

It is a heavy burden to carry if your heart is polluted.

Actually you can carry it and it is light as a feather if your heart and soul are clean, leaning on a right side , adopting light and truth and love from Christ and God and reflecting that light on others.

SO as a conclusion , morale actually IS Christian exclusively. The true Christians'.
Bible say that in the near future all will be Christians in the perfect meaning of the word.Christianity is not a religion. From every nation in the world , people will be gathered into one before God.

greybeard 02-19-2010 02:03 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Hi Beren
please correct me if I have failed to understand but I take it you are speaking of Christ Consciousness. The second coming not being Christ in form though thats not impossible but Christ within all of us.
If I have understood correctly I pray that you are right and the time is close at hand.
Not that my thoughts are of any consequence, The Will of God will occur regardless of my opinion.

Being a little light hearted.
The thought sprang to my mind
"We make plans and God laughs"
With love
Chris

greybeard 02-19-2010 02:42 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Well aroundthetable you certainly started a very interesting thread, I have certainly learned and gained much from it.
Thanks
Chris

truthseekerdan 02-19-2010 02:44 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 240768)
Hi Beren
please correct me if I have failed to understand but I take it you are speaking of Christ Consciousness. The second coming not being Christ in form though thats not impossible but Christ within all of us.
If I have understood correctly I pray that you are right and the time is close at hand.
Not that my thoughts are of any consequence, The Will of God will occur regardless of my opinion.

Being a little light hearted.
The thought sprang to my mind
"We make plans and God laughs"
With love
Chris

Ditto that greybeard. Just lurking now...

:original:

orthodoxymoron 02-19-2010 03:21 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriya (Post 240710)
God just wants our love. That's it. You have the power to accept or reject that, God has no power over you, if you do not wish it.

Paramahansa Yogananda said, that God does not know how great he is, otherwise he wouldn't be that great - no ego!!.

If you meditate upon God, sincerely, you will get your proof! And yes you are right in order to become God conscious you have to submit, but this is really about destroying ego, not about enslavement.

Lastly, Ortho, I think people have tried to answer your questions to the best of their ability, but you choose not to accept them, which is a different matter all together.

We all follow our own paths, right?:original:

Is there no malevolent supernatural force at work on Earth...masquerading as God? Be careful which God you meditate upon! Beware of charlatans, tyrants, manipulators, deceivers, and pretenders! I have tried to make my case to the best of my ability on many different threads...and I continue to receive mostly chilly responses...when someone actually responds! Thank-you all for your warm and thoughtful comments!

:original:Namaste:original:

beren 02-19-2010 04:09 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron (Post 240801)
Is there no malevolent supernatural force at work on Earth...masquerading as God? Be careful which God you meditate upon! Beware of charlatans, tyrants, manipulators, deceivers, and pretenders! I have tried to make my case to the best of my ability on many different threads...and I continue to receive mostly chilly responses...when someone actually responds! Thank-you all for your warm and thoughtful comments!

:original:Namaste:original:

Ortho ,
yes malevolent force calls him self "god".

He was at very high rank within heavenly realms. By his nature he was God's son. One of the many. He was an archangel -meaning he held very high position along with some yet unknown tasks to do in the universe.

Alas for him and his wicked deeds afterward since he allowed that ego and pride slowly but surely overcome his mind and very being and thus he became corrupted.

He was expelled from heavenly family but was not deprived of some powers he had. Then he abused those powers and we all see and feel the results of that.

Many books were written about this whole thing and you even find that in Silmarillion theme from Tolkien.
But in Bible in separate books we find his true intentions why he rebelled .
He wanted that all others worship him along with Creator. He was made beautiful and strong . His name implies that he was very bright in his works and glory (Lucifer-light bearer),
When he was cast out he got name Satan (adversary) ,Devil (liar) .

I can tell you from personal experience , I know a woman , a very trustworthy woman and devoted Christian. Before she found God and actually became Christian ,evil forces were terrifying and torment her constantly for years. She would lay down in bed and in the middle of the night she would awake in the cross road street like 3 km away from her home in night gown. They would beat her viciously while she was lying down in bed.She would lay down healthy and happy and in the morning she would awake with bruises and wounds. Many similar stuff too.
Then when she found Christ and God , they changed attack tactics. But often they would still attack but now she was protected by angels.
She said that she saw them all and also that it is not given to everybody that they can see spiritual world.

Last time when I spoke with her I talked about UFO's and you'd think that an older woman and Christian too would bluntly repulse that in disbelief...
She didn't blinked ! She just said it is not given to everybody to see spiritual world...

Once she was in a park in my city and a woman came to her and without a second thought said that she must step down from being Christian and doing work for God and Christ or she will kill her because she has "powers". That woman came out of nothing. My friend do not know her and never saw her. That woman even told her that she works for dark side and listens all that they command her.

After few minutes woman performed some odd ritual right there in the park for a few seconds and my friend felt like some form of energy struck her deeply and whole left side was taken our for whole month.
When that happened she slowly prayed and walked away, during her walking away vast array of evil entities attacked her and she saw like sky was burning above with screams and cursing and the worst forms of insults against her. Of course she was the only one that could see that. And then , Satan appeared as beautiful angel with wrath towards her.

That happened few years ago but she still have troubles with entities and demons along with their master Satan.


I elaborated this here in order to show you real experience and what happens when we are attacked.
But one thing is sure, if you draw your self closer to light,love,truth... you are being protected by Creator.

Also one of the dirty tricks of Satan is that when he does not attack you by fear , then he tries to confuse you with lies, half truths are 99% of truth and 1% of lie.
For every person he has a tactic of what may work for him or her in order to enslave that soul and eventually destroy it.

beren 02-19-2010 04:19 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 240768)
Hi Beren
please correct me if I have failed to understand but I take it you are speaking of Christ Consciousness. The second coming not being Christ in form though thats not impossible but Christ within all of us.
If I have understood correctly I pray that you are right and the time is close at hand.
Not that my thoughts are of any consequence, The Will of God will occur regardless of my opinion.

Being a little light hearted.
The thought sprang to my mind
"We make plans and God laughs"
With love
Chris


Well you can call it that way. Before God there are no nations or colors or creeds, there are only humans. And we are all born with conscience. Now when one draws closer to God and Christ ,he or she then develops Christ's conscience.

Now as conscience is real so is Christ. He is king over kings and Lord of Lords. There is no one higher than him ,save the Creator himself as his and our father.
Greybeard , I am joyful that universe has that king since he personally came , taught, done things for people. He actually showed his love towards us. And as Bible also state, even him being perfect son of God had to learn humility. Also do not forget that he even washed feet of his disciples in order to show them what love is.
Imagine that, Lord of Lords and King of Kings bowed down to few humans and did the work of a servant by washing their feet!
Simply amazing!
It shows us that we have to re learn our attitudes and really grasp what love is and means.


Regarding his return, just follow the prophecies written in Bible how they magnificently prove right , to the very letter they were written.

Imagine the fear religions feel from his return ,no wonder why they lie their followers about Creator, Christ and all connected . .. they enslaved billions , they carry the blood of innocents on themselves and still dare to call his name upon themselves?

Justice is coming swiftly .

aroundthetable 02-19-2010 04:24 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Greybeard, Beren, Frank, Truthseeker et all, thankyou, am also enjoying and relishing such topics, they are eternally sweet.

Thankyou also for everyone asking questions, this is so important for the process of self realisation ( Gods personal way of giving us the truth ). More questions please, the harder the better. This is not an invitation to project your personal abuse however, sincerity begets sincerity. :thumb_yello:

Frank Samuel 02-19-2010 04:48 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
In the name of God and Christianity 60 million natives where slaughter in America. In the Old Testament David was one of the most vicious tyrants slaughtering entire villages in the name of God. After Christianity was name the official religion of Rome the coliseum still continue as a spectator sport the only difference is that Christians where the spectators. This is the irony of our believes. Yes evil is real it is part of each one of us as we commit injustices against our fellow man . To take responsibility for our own actions is not an easy thing to do. I realize that I am my own worst enemy if I am truly honest with myself. One of my religious teachers a pretty wise and Holy man told me that we are a reflection of God and Satan. Thus the dilemma of the human race. Patience, humility, compassion, forgiveness, love are universal terms that are powerful when applied to our lives. Everyone will transcend in time and achieved a balance between these two forces that are a part of each one of us. :cup::original::wub2:

truthseekerdan 02-19-2010 05:36 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Some non religious food for thought.

Quote:

People are unreasonable, illogical and self-centered. 
Love them anyway. 



If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives. 
Do good anyway. 



If you are successful, you win false friends and true enemies.
 Succeed anyway.



The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow. 
Do good anyway. 



Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.
 Be honest and frank anyway.



What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight.
 Build anyway.



People really need help but may attack you if you help them. 
Help people anyway. 



Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth.
 Give the world the best you've got anyway.



Reminding yourself that in life, you will often be given the opportunity to do right or wrong.
The wrong may be easier, more (superficially) satisfying, more profitable, or appear to put you in a better light. Do the right thing anyway.
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/a...veandlight.jpg

Frank Samuel 02-19-2010 05:48 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Aroundthetable another good question of coming to terms with my duality. If we are created in the image of God and each of us are both good and evil does this mean that God is also a duality of these two forces? Does this mean that God ascended beyond these two forces, or was it an error in the design of sentient beings ? Is there absolute evil ? and if so does this mean evil existed as part of the reality of God? Some might call this sacrilegious statements, they are not, these are questions that I ask the origin of all things while in meditation.
Breaking down our concepts of absolutes is the beginning to transcend beyond mere believes and begin to see our duality from a realistic perspective. Thanks Aroundthetable and everyone for not taking offense in my questions.There's a reason for my madness if you get my meaning. I love to think outside of the box I have a million questions like this one to inspire your original mind. Without using the classic answer of free will can someone reach down and give me your honest view from a personal perspective of coming to terms with your duality. :naughty:

aroundthetable 02-19-2010 06:03 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Thankyou Frank, brilliant and insightful question, i will return!! Going to cook and relax awhile right now :thumb_yello:

truthseekerdan 02-19-2010 06:05 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel (Post 240869)
Aroundthetable another good question of coming to terms with my duality. If we are created in the image of God and each of us are both good and evil does this mean that God is also a duality of these two forces? Does this mean that God ascended beyond these two forces, or was it an error in the design of sentient beings ?

I take your challenge, and from what I know (revealed) The Supreme Creator is singularity (vortex, energy, point, etc.).
However, the Creation at least the lower levels is bound by duality with the scope of spiritual growth.
Think of it as the kindergarten of the Universe, to sum it up. Hope this helps.

:original:

aroundthetable 02-19-2010 06:13 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by truthseekerdan (Post 240875)
I take your challenge, and from what I know (revealed) The Supreme Creator is singularity (vortex, energy, point, etc.).
However, the Creation at least the lower levels is bound by duality with the scope of spiritual growth.
Think of it as the kindergarten of the Universe, to sum it up. Hope this helps.

:original:

I take your challenge....i love that!!! As for the rest, it sounds correct to me, up to a point, so i would like to go and make dinner and leave all interested, with this little conundrum,

God is everthing,
But everything is not God.

take your time! :naughty:

greybeard 02-19-2010 06:29 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel (Post 240869)
Aroundthetable another good question of coming to terms with my duality. If we are created in the image of God and each of us are both good and evil does this mean that God is also a duality of these two forces? Does this mean that God ascended beyond these two forces, or was it an error in the design of sentient beings ? Is there absolute evil ? and if so does this mean evil existed as part of the reality of God? Some might call this sacrilegious statements, they are not, these are questions that I ask the origin of all things while in meditation.
Breaking down our concepts of absolutes is the beginning to transcend beyond mere believes and begin to see our duality from a realistic perspective. Thanks Aroundthetable and everyone for not taking offense in my questions.There's a reason for my madness if you get my meaning. I love to think outside of the box I have a million questions like this one to inspire your original mind. Without using the classic answer of free will can someone reach down and give me your honest view from a personal perspective of coming to terms with your duality. :naughty:

Hi Frank
Yes Ive had these questions in mind in the past and they are very valid.
I can only point you to "the ego what is it?how to transcend thread" you might have to work through quite a few pages but the answer is in there.

Better still buy "Power versus Force" by Dr Hawkins http://www.veritaspub.com/




Dr. Hawkins is an internationally renowned psychiatrist, physician, researcher, and pioneer in the fields of consciousness research and spirituality. He writes and teaches from the unique perspective of an experienced clinician, scientist, and mystic and is devoted to the spiritual evolution of mankind.

Regards Chris

truthseekerdan 02-19-2010 06:44 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

greybeard 02-19-2010 06:53 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by truthseekerdan (Post 240875)
I take your challenge, and from what I know (revealed) The Supreme Creator is singularity (vortex, energy, point, etc.).
However, the Creation at least the lower levels is bound by duality with the scope of spiritual growth.
Think of it as the kindergarten of the Universe, to sum it up. Hope this helps.

:original:

Yes truthseekerdan.
that is my understanding too.
God could be likened to a giant electromagnetic field, Omnipresent.
Science (Quantum) is proving the existence of God

We all have our unique electromagnetic signature which is like an attractor field.
Every thought word deed affects this signature, Good thoughts raise our spiritual energy and therefore we then attract more of Love into our life. Unfortunately the opposite also occurs.

You could say the whole purpose of life is to exit at a higher vibration than we came in.
Its as though the world is purgatory, we have the opportunity to undo past life negative karma.
On death there is no judgment, its not necessary as we gravitate to the realm concordant with our vibration. "In my Fathers house are many mansions" So we head for the Celestial realms or the lower astral hell and we chose the destination through loving God or denying Him.
There are consequences for every action -- no one escape these consequences.
Call it karma, "As we sow so shall we reap".
God is on going creation and evolution.

There are paradoxes in all spiritual teachings but thats my understanding of the moment.

Chris

Frank Samuel 02-19-2010 07:12 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
I thank you for your answers , I want to be more specific if you accept the premise of the nature of humans. The man in the mirror, us, faces himself as his own worst enemy. In order words, have any of you transcended to the point of becoming an absolute point of goodness ? Or have you accepted your duality and created a balance between them? If so how does your duality reflects the true nature of God ? Here's a hint of where I am at in answering this question for myself, see if you have this same dilemma. As a parent I want my children to be better than me. My children are more valuable for me than myself. I don't want my children to become me, I want them to become their own person. We as parents are not perfect , the reality of our lives is that our children inherit both our attributes and our faults. We view God as a separate reality than this one. The classic tale of Dr. Frankenstein comes to mind for me as God's situation when it comes to sentient beings. Once again these are questions I ponder upon , they have help me to come to terms with myself and my relationship to the origin of all things .:original:

Frank Samuel 02-19-2010 07:22 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Truthseekerdan

Thank you for the video in one sentence Ziggy said it best, "Love is my Religion"
You made my Day !!!

:wub2::wub2::wub2::thumb_yello:

greybeard 02-19-2010 07:31 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel (Post 240907)
I thank you for your answers , I want to be more specific if you accept the premise of the nature of humans. The man in the mirror, us, faces himself as his own worst enemy. In order words, have any of you transcended to the point of becoming an absolute point of goodness ? Or have you accepted your duality and created a balance between them? If so how does your duality reflects the true nature of God ? Here's a hint of where I am at in answering this question for myself, see if you have this same dilemma. As a parent I want my children to be better than me. My children are more valuable for me than myself. I don't want my children to become me, I want them to become their own person. We as parents are not perfect , the reality of our lives is that our children inherit both our attributes and our faults. We view God as a separate reality than this one. The classic tale of Dr. Frankenstein comes to mind for me as God's situation when it comes to sentient beings. Once again these are questions I ponder upon , they have help me to come to terms with myself and my relationship to the origin of all things .:original:

Dear Frank
Honestly it is such a complex subject you wont get a satisfactory answer on a forum theer is just not enough time or space.

Dr Hawkins covered the subject fully to my satisfaction but it took two books and 400 pages. One I can recommend is" Discovery of the presence of God / Devotional Nonduality."
You can start to transcend seeming opposites as seeing alternatives instead.
Not hot and cold but a sliding temperature scale more heat less heat.
More of Love less and less till there is an absence of love.
Another biggie is causality. Nothing is causing anything to happen. We all have a potential and react within that potential to situations. For example one person will get angry on hearing something another will shrug it off. The event does not have the power to make some one angry. No one has any power to make you do anything short of a loaded gun of course.
Duality does not reflect the nature of God.
God does not have a nature in that no human term can be applied.
Unconditional Love is nearest.
Kids are ready to hear this when they are ready.
Im sure you are a great father, why worry!!!
Hope this helps Frank
Chris

beren 02-19-2010 07:39 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel (Post 240869)
Aroundthetable another good question of coming to terms with my duality. If we are created in the image of God and each of us are both good and evil does this mean that God is also a duality of these two forces? Does this mean that God ascended beyond these two forces, or was it an error in the design of sentient beings ? Is there absolute evil ? and if so does this mean evil existed as part of the reality of God? Some might call this sacrilegious statements, they are not, these are questions that I ask the origin of all things while in meditation.
Breaking down our concepts of absolutes is the beginning to transcend beyond mere believes and begin to see our duality from a realistic perspective. Thanks Aroundthetable and everyone for not taking offense in my questions.There's a reason for my madness if you get my meaning. I love to think outside of the box I have a million questions like this one to inspire your original mind. Without using the classic answer of free will can someone reach down and give me your honest view from a personal perspective of coming to terms with your duality. :naughty:



Frank,
excellent questions!

I will too jump and take the challenge!

I will not give you a straight answer but you may find ti through my reply here .:original:
We are no duality. We are made in the image of God, Creator. Image of his values,characters and finally physical form. God is spirit but he chose to make us in this form we are so I believe he also chose a form like that for him in eternity. Though he,being almighty is and can be everywhere since his creative force made all and all was first in his mind . So God can feel every atom and quark in universe -he made it.

We`re his children. Now remember Adam and Eve?
What actually Satan asked them?
"Is it true, or does God really said that...?"

He sowed a seed of confusion. First he confused Eve ,then he said that actually God lied them and if she does the exactly oposite from God`s command for them ,she will flourish. She and Adam listened Satan and it actually happened like God said it will.

But now Satan being restless and annoyed with humans he saw that sowing confusion and lies do the job in easier conquering human mind and eventually soul.
Since we`re not created with a thoughts that we should lie or trick others, we naturally trust everybody without a question,since God does not lie and all that are his , that`s why we as his children trust. And exactly there Satan catch us off guard. Now as we`re a bit older that few thousand or more years ago ,Satan`s lies got heavier and his deceit more cunning than before.

But his initial premise is same. Lure out people from their heavenly father.

All evil sprang out from that.

But in reality we are children of the light and there are no duality. Tomorrow when we return to light and Creator We will emanate a vast array of creative powers in universe, shining our own creativity which was and is inspired by our father .

Also don`t forget, Satan existence was allowed that every soul shows its quality. From Satan himself to prove his statements ( he was proved wrong ) to us to be seen as ones who will fully decide do we stand or fall.

beren 02-19-2010 07:46 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
I will say again ;
whenever you feel cold breeze in hot day and feel good, you`ve been cooled by Almighty Creator.
Whenever you are thirsty and drink water , you`ve been satisfied by Almighty creator.
Whenever you are hungry and ate some delicious meal, you`ve been fed by Almighty Creator.

He is in every grass you touch or every flower, Every tree that you see.Every rock that you step on and every mountain and ocean you see, he is there. He created that.
It`s his .

We don`t own anything here .Everything was and is a gift to us.
We just have to open our eyes and ears to see and hear God`s language all around us.

Jesus controlled elements and made miracles.How?
He along with God created all so he knows elements from the very atom .
I am sure we will do the same in the future since we will learn all that we don`t know yet.
We are children of the light, always remember that. Do not let evil strip you off of your eternal future and true life.

greybeard 02-19-2010 08:11 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
This is the paradox. Yes there is no duality, it is part of the illusion there fore is not valid.
There is only Oneeness.
The ego similarly does not exist it is just self identifying with the me story in the head.
Its a substantial as a thought.
Iam not a this or a that. I am not a musician though I play, playing is a function its not what I am. The list is endless. I am chris, no thats my label. It works in this world at this time
However that knowledge may not be helpful in the early stages of escaping from illusion.
Only the power of God sought through surrender to His will can remove the illusion.
When Eve took the apple duality occurred, Judgment came in to play. The knowledge of good and evil.

Keep it simple.
Just be as loving and forgiving as you can.
The message of Jesus was mainly Love and forgive.
The rest is just detail. You dont need it. All that is needed is faith that God is LOVE.
With love
Chris

14 Chakras 02-19-2010 09:37 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel (Post 240907)
I thank you for your answers , I want to be more specific if you accept the premise of the nature of humans. The man in the mirror, us, faces himself as his own worst enemy. In order words, have any of you transcended to the point of becoming an absolute point of goodness ? Or have you accepted your duality and created a balance between them? If so how does your duality reflects the true nature of God ? Here's a hint of where I am at in answering this question for myself, see if you have this same dilemma. As a parent I want my children to be better than me. My children are more valuable for me than myself. I don't want my children to become me, I want them to become their own person. We as parents are not perfect , the reality of our lives is that our children inherit both our attributes and our faults. We view God as a separate reality than this one. The classic tale of Dr. Frankenstein comes to mind for me as God's situation when it comes to sentient beings. Once again these are questions I ponder upon , they have help me to come to terms with myself and my relationship to the origin of all things .:original:

Yes. All good parents want their children to surpass them. Do you think the creator consciousness is any different? We are all God's children. What happens when we grow up? That is for another day... suffice to say:

It is the Father's good pleasure to give us the kingdom. Those who knock, the door will be opened. Those who seek will find. Those who ask, it shall be given.

Only our own inertia, fears, and attachments block the Way.


Oneness is not a static state, it's simply a real state. Take off the blinders, take off the mask and what happens: the Truth sets u Free.

Not to disapear into nothingness, rather to grow you unique perspective in Oneness with All that IS.

It's simply consciousness or unconsciousness.

Duality ego stuff is not life, it's illusion, it's death, it's the appearance of individuality but really egos are very much the same, and they're limited, and unconscious. Most of the time people are not thinking for themselves.

Oneness ~ I AM consciousness is you. It's not same. It's not a blob. It's the Divine Co-creative Being in Oneness of who you really are.

Enlightenment is called: Awakening. We are here now to finally Awaken. To Be 'reborn' as a conscious Being ....

~ Espavo ~ (Thank you for taking your Power)

aroundthetable 02-19-2010 10:24 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Reading all the last few posts makes me happy that spiritual philosophy is as alive and well as it always has been. Frank, from the depth of your writing i believe you already know within, the answers to the questions you pose. Still, these topics are enlivening and nourishing and will always be discussed and refreshed and passed along the future generations, God guarantees this. We are never abandoned.

A wee parable.

Two birds in a fruit tree.

The tree is the material world and all its fruits ( activities)

One bird is God, the other is you.

So God sits there in the tree with you, but you do not notice on account of being too busy partaking of all the fruits of the tree. You only need to turn around and see.

Tis simple and i like it.


Acintya beda beda tattva - simultaneous oneness and difference. Yes we are one with God as we are from God, but whereas we are limited, God is unlimited. Merging into somekind of oneness suggests we can lose our individual soul and identity and this is not possible. You will always be you. You are an eternal personality.

beren 02-19-2010 10:29 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
The more i learn about us humans and myself as a man, I am getting somewhat frustrated.
We are complicating every single thing we look upon,feel,touch...

I am imagining how must have been hard for Christ back then to explain these truths to people.
I mean he performed thousands of miracles,fed the hungry,heal the sick,expelled demons,saved people`s lives,resurrected people... and who know what else since John writes at the very end of his gospel that if every thing was written down ,whole world would not be enough to take the scrolls which would be written.

Now Jesus did all that and you find in the end of gospels that even then his disciples didn`t believe!!!

Come on!

What more can be done???

Remember Thomas who said that if he put his arms in Christ`s wounds and put his fingers through nail holes ,he`d then believe that Jesus was resurrected?
I mean Thomas-how much more did you need ? What- for Jesus had to move whole planet that you`d believe finally?
He`d have to -I don`t know-blow fire from his mouth-kill demons with lasers from his eyes, move people up in the air and who knows what more?

I mean Thomas was there for three years daily watching miracles,DAILY and still didn`t believe...

What would you and me do if we were just for one day back then with Jesus?
Would we believe or not?

No wonder why Christ himself was frustrated and said once :"For how long I must suffer you...?"

Despite all, we`re loved and I think, why don`t we show a little faith for God`s sake? Why don`t we share a little love to our neighbor and actually be as Christ?

WHY WHY WHY?

I am sometimes soo ***ed off :mad3:
firstly on my self and on my fellow humans...

aroundthetable 02-19-2010 10:39 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
George Harrison, a beautiful beatle x


kriya 02-19-2010 10:52 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aroundthetable (Post 240990)
George Harrison, a beautiful beatle x



I absolutely love this song :thumb_yello:

It was George Harrison who lead me to the Self-realisation fellowship and my Guru (aka my avatar-he literally is one!).....

God rest his soul.

Beautiful posts guys!! Excellent contributions all round.

Love,

Kriya

aroundthetable 02-19-2010 10:58 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Hare Krishna :original:

Frank Samuel 02-19-2010 11:47 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Aroundthetable and others know where I am going with this. The illusion of self creates your reality, suffice to say that there's multiple realities as there are timetables. The 3 dimensional reality is only an illusion created by you, therefore you create your own limitations. Gods does not play a part on this 3 dimensional reality and yes God does not look at us from a good and evil viewpoint. There's no judgment within God. I know this shatters a lot of walls here but many of you have come to the same conclusion. I do agree that God as the original source of love can only do just that, love you ,no matter what. Our interpretations of God often are based on our 3 dimensional view of reality which I might add is severely limited in comparison to the unlimited view of the term God which I choose to call the origin of all things . The entity commonly call satan has no power over you unless you accept this entity in your life as a reality therefore the man in the mirror becomes satan incarnated within your 3 dimensional reality. As a theologian we found that satan was a part of scripture as much as God. Without offending anyone satan has become a part of the very churches that worship God.We create the hell as a dwelling place within our consciousness in other words we become slaves to our own perception of reality. Without placing judgment many representatives of the cloth have become victims of their own manifestation of this entity within their perception of this 3 dimensional reality.
Thank you for your patience and love which you have demonstrated towards me with your answers, I am most grateful to all of you.

Blessings to all...:wub2::original: Is time to continue with my duties as a loving father , time to go my one year old daughter is in need of love and attention.:lol3:


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