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-   -   Why making God unfashionable never works.. (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20133)

aroundthetable 02-16-2010 12:26 PM

Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
http://deshika.wordpress.com/2010/02...e-never-works/


Seems like its fashionable, hip, im bigger than that philosophy to deny the existence of a supreme creator, to have an auto cue after religious statements to say 'but im not into 'organised' religion'. Do they think religion, spirituality should be dis-organised? Seems like a lot of talk gripes about being unified and stop the in fighting etc etc, yet they expect the faith of millions around the world, that has stood the test of time for 1000's of years, to just roll over for the latest fad movement. OK be disorganised, pay 9000 dollars to die in a sweat hut, or pay someone to be your spiritual guide. Please beware of charlatons.

Objections expected and accepted.

greybeard 02-16-2010 01:12 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Well I for one agree with you.
In God we Trust. On The Dollar note, isent it?
Some say it should be removed.
Chris

aroundthetable 02-16-2010 04:28 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Hey Greybeard, pleased to meet you :thumb_yello:

CÚline 02-16-2010 04:30 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Religion is about Man

Spirituality is about God

aroundthetable 02-16-2010 04:40 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CÚline (Post 239417)
Religion is about Man

Spirituality is about God

Where did you pick up this pearl of wisdom? Sounds like a bumper sticker. Please qoute your source. Im guessing it wasnt Mother Theresa.

CÚline 02-16-2010 04:41 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
That one is mine *smiles*

aroundthetable 02-16-2010 04:57 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CÚline (Post 239423)
That one is mine *smiles*

Hold the front page!! :winksmiley02:

lisa 02-16-2010 09:04 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Men made Gods in their own image.

orthodoxymoron 02-16-2010 09:29 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Here are some links to threads which help to reveal my current point of view regarding God and Religion. I'm both supportive and hostile. In the past...I have been 'overchurched'...and presently I'm probably 'underchurched'. I'm sort of the best friend and the worst enemy of Christianity. Actually...I'm thinking about going back to church. I'm still looking for detailed critiques of the following threads. My mind is not made up...so please confuse me with the facts. I'm easily confused!

1. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...orthodoxymoron

2. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...orthodoxymoron

3. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...orthodoxymoron

4. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...orthodoxymoron

5. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15878

6. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...rldwide+church

7. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...179#post163179

8. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...729#post165729

9. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...745#post167745

10. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...lucifer+effect

11. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18223

12. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...%2C+lucifer%3F

:original:Namaste:original:

aroundthetable 02-16-2010 09:39 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron (Post 239588)
Here are some links to threads which help to reveal my current point of view regarding God and Religion. I'm both supportive and hostile. In the past...I have been 'overchurched'...and presently I'm probably 'underchurched'. I'm sort of the best friend and the worst enemy of Christianity. Actually...I'm thinking about going back to church. I'm still looking for detailed critiques of the following threads. My mind is not made up...so please confuse me with the facts. I'm easily confused!



:original:Namaste:original:

Hi Oxy, i wish you well. I am not a Christian but i do love and respect Jesus and the teachings of the bible. Its all very simple ( and yes difficult too!). Thou shalt not kill, steal, covet etc...Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..(forgiveness). If you do go back to the church, try and find a teacher that practices what they preach, this is most important. Free yourself from anger. Study your scripture, its all their, its your automatic charlaton detector. Im excited for you :original:

beren 02-16-2010 09:53 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Ortho, for a start, go read Bible again but now with different attitude. With open mind and heart. Words like "religion, church,pastor,..." or many other things are products of Churchianity throughout time.

This is a verse from John 4:23,24

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."


See the message? Crystal clear, no building needed or rituals or services or whatever man invented under term "religion".
Really if people can only stop for a moment and really think about Christ`s message and words ,their world would turn upside down.
The thing is that Christ was not talking about religion or whatever they labeled him.
He was talking that we should as humanity awake and take our place in universe at Creator`s side and fulfill our destiny as children of Creator.

But they killed him because he was sparking inner changes in people, and when they are free ,leeches can`t abuse them anymore because they would rather die that be slaves again, slaves to habits,people,institutions,books,rituals,dogmas... DARKNESS... We are made in the image of God and we will take our righteous place soon, as the children of the light.

It is that simple ,the message of Christ.

aroundthetable 02-16-2010 10:01 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Yes Beren, simple living, high thinking, thats the key.

It is also important to get the support and encouragement of like minded people and for Christians the church is a place to gather in this way, just like this site is a gathering place where people seek like minded people for support and encouragement, it is no different than a church in that respect. People with similar attitudes will always seek each other out, that is natural.

beren 02-16-2010 11:29 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aroundthetable (Post 239616)
Yes Beren, simple living, high thinking, thats the key.

It is also important to get the support and encouragement of like minded people and for Christians the church is a place to gather in this way, just like this site is a gathering place where people seek like minded people for support and encouragement, it is no different than a church in that respect. People with similar attitudes will always seek each other out, that is natural.


I agree. But even word "church" was twisted from original meaning. In the beginning Christians didn`t had buildings or special places because that was not the point. Later on when "wolves" took over as Paul was and others were signing the alarm over it ,slowly they started to import back postulates from Judaism ,which on the other hand took postulates from Babylonian system and... you got a mess ...

Christ said where are two or three people in his name ,there he is with them in spirit.
That essentially means that even two of us talking now about truth and love and Christ are forming one congregation ,one church.

Because if you are inspired by holy spirit you are always with God and Christ, you don`t need building or anything other man made on this earth. You are then 24/7 connected with Creator. Also when you are able to speak about truth freely with people willing to do that, then you got a feeling of belonging and friendship with people alike.

It was always high above man made assumptions about God and what does he requires from you. It was always through spirit ,never other way round.

No matter what people imagine or are persuaded , never they can understand Creator or be close to him if they don`t shed and cast down old patterns of thinking and behaving.

greybeard 02-16-2010 11:48 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
your are right Bern.

Also think Jesus said. "Even the wisest of my disciples will enter heaven by faith alone"
The Truth has been handed down since time began through the Vedas Upanisheds Krishna The Buddha Christ. Truth is eternal unchanging. One God.
That which is formless is the Provence of non duality. The Mystic live it.
It can be pointed to alluded to but is That which can not be spoken of.
It cant be measured it is beyond all human description.
Thats is why faith alone is required.
Thats simple but hard until something in your life brings this about.
Hitting rock bottom in whatever form that takes opens the heart to God who is always available.
Chris

Rareheart 02-17-2010 12:11 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Too few venture the hard path.

Why?

:original:

aroundthetable 02-17-2010 12:14 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rareheart (Post 239677)
Too few venture the hard path.

Why?

:original:

There are many distractions :original:

Rareheart 02-17-2010 12:17 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Very Nice Celine,
Quote:

Religion is about Man

Spirituality is about God
:original:

Rareheart 02-17-2010 12:19 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

There are many distractions
:mfr_lol:

...and what wonderful fun to be had.

:original:

greybeard 02-17-2010 12:19 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rareheart (Post 239677)
Too few venture the hard path.

Why?

:original:

The power of Maya the illusion created by ego is very seductive Rareheart.
It throws you little crumbs of comfort from time to time, promises a better future, takes you out of the eternal Now, the only moment that ever exists.
Many are called few chose.
People do not react to gentle reminders of the power of God sometimes the going has to get tough before the tough become receptive.
It takes humility to ask God for help.
The ego has no humility.

Anyway thats my understanding of it.
Chris

Rareheart 02-17-2010 12:24 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Yes Greybeard...the ego strives to understand Love.
Yet, is composed of it.
:original:

To me...God and Love are interchangeable.

aroundthetable 02-17-2010 12:27 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
We are by nature pleasure seekers, but we are looking in the wrong place and accept fleeting and temporary material pleasures instead, this path always ends in frustration and anxiety.

truthseekerdan 02-17-2010 12:51 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beren (Post 239604)
Ortho, for a start, go read Bible again but now with different attitude. With open mind and heart. Words like "religion, church,pastor,..." or many other things are products of Churchianity throughout time.

This is a verse from John 4:23,24

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."


See the message? Crystal clear, no building needed or rituals or services or whatever man invented under term "religion".
Really if people can only stop for a moment and really think about Christ`s message and words ,their world would turn upside down.
The thing is that Christ was not talking about religion or whatever they labeled him.
He was talking that we should as humanity awake and take our place in universe at Creator`s side and fulfill our destiny as children of Creator.

But they killed him because he was sparking inner changes in people, and when they are free ,leeches can`t abuse them anymore because they would rather die that be slaves again, slaves to habits,people,institutions,books,rituals,dogmas... DARKNESS... We are made in the image of God and we will take our righteous place soon, as the children of the light.

It is that simple ,the message of Christ.

Beren,

You nailed it. :thumb_yello:

Some parts of the today's Bible are deliberately manipulated (changed), and some also poorly translated. However, some parts fortunately still unchanged.

That's why when reading the Bible, in order to understand it properly one has to be a bit more spiritually grown up.

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/...ttulojesus.jpg

Dog 02-17-2010 01:16 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
If you go back to church...it is very important to go to the proper one. 99% of the churches are teaching the wrong stuff. Why ? Because the Gov't tells them what to teach and what not. Why ? so they can maintain their tax exempt status. The government CONTROLS the church. Find the church that is not tax exempt ...that is the one you want. It won't be a great big church with all the fancy decor. There is no separation of church and state as you might think.
~ Dog

Tango 02-17-2010 01:56 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Hey, Dog... Good, to See you posting... I agree on the way to pick a chruch...

Do we, Need a Chruch, to use our Consiousness...? Can we Help other's without
a chruch...? Can we Pay it Forward... Well, that's only three other's to help...
Help some Heal... Feed some... Don't, give a loan... Just help those, who will
help themselves...

WE. WERE GIVEN THE ABILITY TO CREATE... Look what you've done with it...
You've let yourselve's be controlled by a 501 (c) (3)... Non profit... certified...
by the collector's for the FR... IMF... THINK about this... Change IT...

When, All we have to do IS Create a Better Tomorrow... THINK ABOUT ending
the LIES... Just THINK about IT... You know someday, You will have to Judge
your Action's...

Trooly,


Tango

lisa 02-17-2010 02:18 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beren (Post 239604)
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

See the message? Crystal clear...

I have a dumb question...
Who is this "Father" and why is he seeking worshipers?
My dad, for one, is not looking for worshipers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beren (Post 239604)
But they killed him because he was sparking inner changes in people...

Or maybe they tried to kill him because he is speaking against their religious beliefs.

Whether there is a "God" or not, people naturally want someone they can count on to lead us, to help us, to save us, etc.
God gives us a peace of mind.
And we like to speak with "God" hanging on the corner of our mouths because it makes us feel like this "God" is very close to us.
And sadly, some people think that they are better than others because of their religious beliefs.

TRANCOSO 02-17-2010 02:41 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 239320)
Well I for one agree with you.
In God we Trust. On The Dollar note, isent it?
Some say it should be removed.
Chris

In that case God stands for Gold, oil, drugs.:naughty:

truthseekerdan 02-17-2010 02:49 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Did you miss my post Lisa? :winksmiley02:

lisa 02-17-2010 03:06 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by truthseekerdan (Post 239743)
Did you miss my post Lisa? :winksmiley02:

truthseekerdan, I know that Christians are supposed to interpret the Bible because some passages do not make sense if you take it literally.
However, beren said that that particular passage is "crystal clear", and I thought he meant that for everyone, including those of us who are not "spiritually grown up".

orthodoxymoron 02-17-2010 03:09 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog (Post 239706)
If you go back to church...it is very important to go to the proper one. 99% of the churches are teaching the wrong stuff. Why ? Because the Gov't tells them what to teach and what not. Why ? so they can maintain their tax exempt status. The government CONTROLS the church. Find the church that is not tax exempt ...that is the one you want. It won't be a great big church with all the fancy decor. There is no separation of church and state as you might think.
~ Dog

Thank-you Dog. I agree. Everyone should be tax-exempt...and pay a 5% national federal consumption tax to fund legitimate governmental projects. Anyway...here is an interesting talk which touches on the church tax situation. This one is worth watching. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCGh-pXXk6s

:nono:Namaste:nono:

truthseekerdan 02-17-2010 03:22 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lisa (Post 239747)
truthseekerdan, I know that Christians are supposed to interpret the Bible because some passages do not make sense if you take it literally.
However, beren said that that particular passage is "crystal clear", and I thought he meant that for everyone, including those of us who are not "spiritually grown up".

Dear Lisa,

As you might not know, there are a lot of other books and gospels that were not included in the canonical Bible. Guess why? :zip:

I hope you heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. If not here is a link to check out. Also you can do a google search if you are interested to find out more... :thumb_yello:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_scrolls

lisa 02-17-2010 03:33 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Yes, truthseekerdan, I know that there are scriptures beyond the Bible and there are even more if you consider those of other religions.
However, that does not answer my original dumb question.

truthseekerdan 02-17-2010 03:50 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lisa (Post 239756)
Yes, truthseekerdan, I know that there are scriptures beyond the Bible and there are even more if you consider those of other religions.
However, that does not answer my original dumb question.

Lisa,

No question is a dumb question. :original: It looks to me that you are on the right path of wanting to know more.

Please understand that I'm not trying to look like a "saint or a spiritual guru" however, I'm on the same path like you wanting to know more spiritually.

We are all equal and also ONE with our Creator. Therefore a lot of our questions can be answered better from within us. Don't expect a "right" answer from anybody else.

Keep searching my dear, because He's knocking at your heart's door.

Right now I'm reading an interesting book that I would recommend to you.

See my post here: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20100

:wub2:

lisa 02-17-2010 05:16 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
truthseekerdan, the answer is simple. The "Father" has a big ego and wants to be worshiped. :mf_popeanim:

truthseekerdan 02-17-2010 05:41 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lisa (Post 239793)
truthseekerdan, the answer is simple. The "Father" has a big ego and wants to be worshiped. :mf_popeanim:

Not my Father.

If you have a Father that wants to be worshiped, abandon him for the ONE that Loves you unconditionally.


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...earthheart.gif

aroundthetable 02-17-2010 06:25 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Nice to see some thoughtful posts here, how about some of your favourite parts of the particular scripture you study, not too long eh!!

Ill start by giving a text from Bhagavad Gita.

Ch 6 Text 6

For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy.


I like this because it reminds me of how important it is to control ones senses such as anger, greed and violence etc, and it encourages the promotion of humility, goodness, pridelessness etc.

:trumpet:

Frank Samuel 02-17-2010 07:22 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
The origin of all things can be view as a parent, all parents want the best for their children. None of us worship our parents, rather we love them and respect them. Worship and blind fanaticism has replace the true meaning of our relationship to our origin. Religion throughout history has always been use by tptb to enslave and control humanity. Yes our original mind knows that we are not just flesh and bones, our heart, internal essence , soul ,seeks a connection to our origin. No book is needed , religious emblem or symbol to establish a connection to your origin. Just your true desire to do so. Each person is free to establish a personal connection to the origin of all things. As a young man I study theology and visited many types of religious institutions who often are caught up in internal politics , made up traditions and sub cultures that devalue our connection to our origin. Religious leaders seek to control the masses by stating that because they have the understanding of a particular Holy Book we must congregate and follow them . In the eyes of a parent all children have equal value , irregardless whether they have knowledge or comprehension of their relationship to their parents. All parents love their babies. Babies cannot read, talk, yet parents love their children unconditionally. So why would it be any different for the origin of all things. While some might label this way of thinking as new age, sacrilegious, etc. I view it as pure common sense is time to regain our sovereignty and reclaim our true connection to the origin of all things . :wub2:

Steven 02-17-2010 07:57 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel (Post 239842)
The origin of all things can be view as a parent, all parents want the best for their children...

Wonderful thought Frank. I would add that by coming here, into materiality, we are given the opportunity to live a small portion of what is to be parent, just like Creation is for all that exist. It is an opportunity to feel from the direct experience of love for our children, a very similar perspective that Creation has for all. An opportunity to a different 'understanding' on what is the world we live in.

Life, Nature, Creation is the greatest spiritual experience to live, seeing it all alive, sentient and feeling is my sens of 'God'... I prefer to say Creation:lol3:.

Namaste, Steven

aroundthetable 02-17-2010 08:17 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Creation implies a creator, this implies intelligence, intelligence implies a personality. As eternal living entities ( something scientists are gradually realising ) we have the same qualities of God, but in a limited way, just as a spark from a fire is not the fire but has the same qualities. We have chosen to be born into the material existence because we desire to become little controllers, little gods. Anyone claiming to be god can easily prove this by creating a planet, a universe, or how about a single blade of grass?

I invite all to watch this video debate.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...chance&view=3#

beren 02-17-2010 08:21 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Lisa, you asked a perfect question. All is quite simple but it was deliberately complicated for humanity from the very beginning .

Father is Almighty Creator. God.

But when you read Bible you have to realize that it was written 2000 years ago ( new testament) and old reaches to 1500 BC .
That particular verse I quoted was spoken to one Samaritan woman when she was taking water from one well.

Now that is a very interesting scene for serious consideration for several reasons.

1. Jesus spoke to a woman , which was highly unlikely in that time for men to publicly speak with women since they regarded women as lower beings. Very rare situation indeed that a man speaks publicly with woman who was ,by the way, Samaritan -and Jews avoided Samaritans thinking of them as "goyim" -not worthy at all in their eyes.

2.Jesus spoke that words 2000 years ago when 99% of humanity was illiterate and didn`t know a darn thing that even first graders today know and understand. But amazing thing is that essential truths are same even to the most illiterate.

3. All people then ,in that time, never thought in terms Jesus was describing. So I guess it was very difficult for him to explain maaaany thins.
They were accustomed when thinking about God or any deity that they need buildings,groves,trees,sacrifices and many more things since all that was IN USE with every religion at that time. Also they didn`t thought that they are actually in some religion. They thought ,well...,it`s just like that. There is no other way .

4. Since they didn`t thought abstractly at all ,it had to be painted for them in order they could at least beginning to grasp what was Jesus talking about.
Even Jews which were at the time God`s chosen people on Earth were not for away from others. Simply, humanity was living in different time with literacy ,technology and everything.
How can you explain to a man what is a hydroplane when he does not know to write his name or what time is t today???

5. Then realizing all above facts Father or God is actually Almighty Creator . He needs people to worship him in spirit and truth for a start. When they do that ,soon they realize that they don`t need anything they were taught from other people on earth in order to be close friends with Almighty Creator. Look at kids ,when they are small ,their father is almost like a God to them and they try to imitate him and they like and love him and when he raises his voice they are a bit afraid. But instinctively ,they know they are loved and they grow. Later on, father is not being looked upon as when you were a child. Then he gains your deep respect and you two become friends for life. When you are adult you never think about your father as God or what ever, you think about him as good wise friend who was and will be always there for you , 24/7.

BUT as last point here, you can never meet our heavenly Father unless you are humble. It is a long path from worshiping to friendship and honor, but it`s the most precious one that is ,in entire universe ,because when you have a friendship with God-heavenly father-Almighty Creator or all-... then you have everything.

Tell me, is there in existing any other being or person in universe you`d want his/hers friendship more than the very Creator ?

For God is spirit and God is love .Everything that he did was done from initial spark of love that has its source in him.
Look around you on earth, every tree, animal,flower,person, element is a tiny manifestation of his creativity and unlimited creative power.

When ever you see or meet a person which reflects love or wisdom , you then are in direct contact with father through that person emitting part of HIS values...Love-Justice-Wisdom-Power.

When ever your soul is amazed and beautifully blessed and enjoyed from a scent of a flower or butterflies dance or beauty of eagle flight ,you are then touched by Almighty creator.

When ever you eat juicy orange and feel bliss you are fed by Almighty Creator.

Whenever you swim in a pool or river in hot days and feel great because water rejuvenated you, you have been bathed by Almighty creator.

See ,examples are endless...

You ,me, everybody just have to feel, see,listen and love.

aroundthetable 02-17-2010 08:37 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Please kindly resist the urge to post long tracts of dialogue, it stands more chance of being read and digested and i believe it is more respectful of everyones intelligence.

Are there any Muslims or Jews or any other faiths that would like to share personal realisations from their scriptures? :original:


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