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-   -   Martial Arts - Have you trained or not? (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19941)

lawyerforliberty 02-16-2010 04:25 AM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
I studied Hung Gar (Tiger/Crane) Kung Fu 1972-78 in the San Francisco Bay Area after I got out of the Army. In the Army I received what was called hand-to-hand combat training. Some basic stuff, like the rear strangle take down hold and perrying. I was in the 82nd as an 11 Bravo (infantry) soldier, but we never got any more training. I think they expected us to shoot and blow things up rather than get into hand-to-hand.

In the '90s I studied Kempo Karate for many years. That is a very hard form. It is heavily focused on physical fitness, which is very important.

There are really only a hand full of strikes and kicks that one needs to master. The rest is tradition and show. That was Bruce Lee's point and why he developed Jeet Kun Do (spelling).

Elbows and knees can be lethal. Eyes and ears are very sensitive targets. No matter how large and strong your opponent, he/she has senstive eyes and ears, no more impervious than anyone else.

The most effective form of self defense is to not need it. "The art of fighting without fighting."

hummingbird775 02-16-2010 06:18 AM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
Me and my girlfriend both train Mixed martial arts, I read the Tao by Bruce Lee first when i was 19 and it changed my life.

Martial arts increases awareness, in several different ways and definitely can be used to increase one's higher connection with first source or creation.

Shinya Aoki some of the best jiu jitsu, Fedor Emelianenko is amazing.

"Self Knowledge is the basis of Jeet Kune Do because it is effective, not only for the individual's martial art, but also for his life as human being" Bruce Lee. human becoming.. great to be here look forward to contributing

She-Ra 02-16-2010 12:58 PM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TRANCOSO (Post 235588)
That's new to me. Why is that?

Probably considered a weapon, or unfair advantage in a fight, so like with a gun you have to be registered. Yes many things can be considered a weapon, but martial arts is a system of training and could be called a vetting process whereas anyone can go and buy weapons other than legally getting a gun and use them so they can't realistically have a register for that except keeping record of financial receipts if not paid with by cash.

If you ever get into a fight, in the UK, even in self defense you have to tell the other person(s) that you are martial arts trained and you're not allowed to use it on them, so basically you have to street fight or get beaten up. The laws might have changed though and it might be interesting to look up what the nuances are on people fighting in in a public where all parties know marital arts. Maybe the same as 'normal' fights - public disturbance, ASBO's, ABH/GBH etc.

Shaynard 02-16-2010 05:33 PM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hummingbird775 (Post 239217)
, I read the Tao by Bruce Lee first when i was 19 and it changed my life.


"Self Knowledge is the basis of Jeet Kune Do because it is effective, not only for the individual's martial art, but also for his life as human being" Bruce Lee. human becoming.. great to be here look forward to contributing


Great to see it was all worthwhile. Rewards come in mysterious ways it seems. The beauty of this form of existence.

"Although you were told before, your ears could not hear. Perhaps your eyes will have better luck"

In light, of love
Shaynard

Jnana 02-16-2010 06:21 PM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by She-Ra (Post 239315)
in the UK, even in self defense you have to tell the other person(s) that you are martial arts trained and you're not allowed to use it on them, so basically you have to street fight or get beaten up.

Do you have references for this? How would they ever legally define "street fight". Is a martial artist supposed to forget how to block and punch, both of which become much more effective with training? "Oh, I'll just block half as well as I normally do." Is someone with jujitsu training supposed to forget submission holds which could end the fight with no one getting hurt?

In the US, there are laws against excessive use of force in a self-defense situation. Martial artists are held to a higher standard because they supposedly know how much damage they are causing, so your training can be a liability in a court room. But then, we also have "make my day" laws in certain states that allow deadly use of force against intruders in your home. It's worthwhile to know your local laws on such matters.

I hold dan rank in Tae Kwon Do and Jujitsu but I'm not training much at the moment. I'm getting too old for this stuff.

TRANCOSO 02-16-2010 06:49 PM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by She-Ra (Post 239315)
If you ever get into a fight, in the UK, even in self defense you have to tell the other person(s) that you are martial arts trained and you're not allowed to use it on them, so basically you have to street fight or get beaten up. The laws might have changed though and it might be interesting to look up what the nuances are on people fighting in in a public where all parties know marital arts. Maybe the same as 'normal' fights - public disturbance, ASBO's, ABH/GBH etc.

In Holland you also have to tell someone your hands & feet are deadly weapons, before you beat 'm up.
I always try to avoid fighting, but if no other option is left, I strike first. :lightsabre: :naughty:

She-Ra 02-16-2010 07:04 PM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
It's too blurred an area for me to give exact references, what is generally known about it comes from the self defense section of UK Common Law. Everything I've seen on it before are general reviews because it's not statutory, and seems to be dealt with by individual case with specific legal advice and for those dealing with it to decide at a later date whether the behaviour came under a statute or remains under common law.

Just did a quick brush up and it seems the having to warn the other person(s) is no longer but martial artists have a duty to avoid conflict but if they cannot then like any other person they have to use reasonable action and if the fight escalates, escalate accordingly and if it lessons, then lesson their action too. BUT, in practice, in court they will have to prove that your behaviour was excessive and to determine whether it was self defense or revenge, they will examine that in hindsight obviously. In that situation, people will generally put the onus on the trained person to know better and even though it could have been situation that happened quickly and without warning people will generally expect the practitioner to have better instincts. It can be easily argued in all sorts of ways on an individual basis so the advice is generally to try and retreat or show reluctance and if that doesn't work then to try and neutralize the threat efficiently and without 'too much' damage in which case jujitsu is well designed.

How to define a street fight - exactly. That was just my terminology - but just not doing anything too obvious, that a non-practitioner wouldn't likely do is a safe idea. The public and courts aren't likely to look down on you for blocking, but if you have an obvious advantage and use it too well, people don't tend to like that.

She-Ra 02-16-2010 07:09 PM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TRANCOSO (Post 239504)
In Holland you also have to tell someone your hands & feet are deadly weapons, before you beat 'm up.
I always try to avoid fighting, but if no other option is left, I strike first. :lightsabre: :naughty:

Ah, you don't have to do that here anymore, but it's advised to try and avoid or back out of fights and if you can't, a pre-emptive strike is allowed as long as it doesn't do the kind of damage that light sabre would. :winksmiley02:

raulduke 02-19-2010 08:24 AM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hummingbird775 (Post 239217)
Shinya Aoki some of the best jiu jitsu,

Absolutely, his last fight on new year's, rolling with that hammer lock was beautiful, but the post broken arm antics, well, he's a very poor sport. Would love to see him fight Penn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hummingbird775 (Post 239217)
Fedor Emelianenko is amazing.

Agreed, prolly the best p4p in the world though I'd like to see him fight some of the more recent big names in HW mma. Anderson Silva might be a better argument for p4p, but Fedor's more mysterious so he gets the nod from me, plus he's not afraid to arm bar God....:lol3:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66.../fedor-god.gif


Quote:

Originally Posted by She-Ra (Post 239509)
....it's advised to try and avoid or back out of fights and if you can't, a pre-emptive strike is allowed as long as it doesn't do the kind of damage that light sabre would. :winksmiley02:

Agreed. Nothing good ever comes from a street fight, best to swallow any pride and concede to the drunks, unless all diplomatic avenues have been exhausted. Of course there are some clever ways to avoid a fight. I like this guy's approach, just embarass the would be bad guy into slinking away.:lol3:



Almost forgot why I came back to this thread in the first place. I just finished watching Bill's new ww3 scenario vid, and the end reminded me of this interview with the late Evan Tanner. He was a self taught mma world champ, and died far too soon. A good man with his "message for a better world" here.



Heretic 02-19-2010 12:44 PM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
I'm kind of a jack of all trades in the arts; an expert some could say, but master of none (well maybe my own "mutt" art I suppose)

I started at the age of 12 in the mid 70s...and I am still learning at 47yrs old

I am not belted in any style and only studied in a few schools here and there (and usually not for long - always less than a year) as I learned most of what I know from individuals and one on one training due to friendships with those who shared the same intensity and obsession with the arts as I have through out my life.

my art leans more towards the hard styles with qigong as a complementary accompaniment so I have only started messing with the Fa Jing bearing arts in the last 5 years and boy do I wish I had come across this stuff earlier in my life! Unfortunately it was still way taboo to teach to Americans back then

strangely enough...

...I have learned a great deal of my art from dreams

I am firmly convinced that I spent a life (or more) in ancient china as a monk or something similarly connected to the early arts

PS: I want to get into a dojo with all of you and PLAY! :lightsabre:

hummingbird775 02-19-2010 09:35 PM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
great post raulduke ( a fear and loathing reference i believe) thank you for posting the tanner videos i had never seen.. very moving especially knowing how his story ended up

monique 02-21-2010 02:11 AM

Re: Martial Arts - Have you trained or not?
 
when i was eleven learn judo a few weeks - i can remember that in the first lesson we learn to fall and found this very interesting :thumb_yello: monique.


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