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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
....hate to be off-the-wall here, but i just have to say it...
amazing that this guy is getting all this heat. even more astounding is the possible sentence this man faces for hacking into a computer.... meanwhile....child abusers (of all types) are slapped on the wrist daily and walking away with meager sentences.... gotta love america.... |
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Just curious.
Did this guy do anything wrong in the eyes of Hacking supporters? Proxy server trail leads FBI to Palin email hacker By Humphrey Cheung Friday, September 19, 2008 21:44 Anchorage (Alaska) – FBI agents are using proxy server logs to track down the hacker who broke into Sarah Palin’s Yahoo email account. The hacker gained access to the Republican Vice Presidential candidate’s account by resetting the password. He then posted details of his adventures up on a popular online forum, but that information is now leading reporters and federal investigators to the suspect – a Tennessee university college student and son of state democratic representative Mike Kernell. A few days ago, someone going by the name of “Rubico” gloated on 4chan.org that he managed to hack into Sarah Palin’s Yahoo account. He forced a password reset by answering questions about Palin’s birthdate, zip code and where she met her spouse, Wasilla High School. Of course, by being the Republican candidate for Vice President, this information is all very easily found on the Internet. After answering the questions, Rubico reset the password to “popcorn” and read through Palin’s emails. And it seems he was pretty thorough, saying he read, “ALL OF THEM” on the boards. He even posted up screenshots of the Yahoo email page, complete with the full URL (we’ll talk about that later). Rubico says he didn’t find anything incriminating and the emails were actually fairly mundane family pictures and correspondence. But his jubilation turned into horror as he realized that he didn’t take proper precautions in covering his tracks. Rubico used a proxy server that shields the source IP address from website logging scripts. While this sounds great, Rubico posted, “Yes I was behind a proxy, only one, if this sh** ever got to the FBI I was FU****” In his gloating, Rubico posted up screenshots of the Yahoo account complete with the full URL which included the proxy server url (ctunnel.com) appended with a unique identifier. For example, we used ctunnel.com to surf to YouTube and the URL reads - http://ctunnel.com/index.php/1010110...ebe14f44221026. So it doesn’t take a genius to go through the logs and match up the ID to the appropriate IP address and BAM, you got the hacker. But aren’t proxy servers supposed to anonymize your information? Yes and no. Dan Goodin over at The Register talked to Gabriel Ramuglia, the owner of the ctunnel.com proxy server that Rubico allegedly used. Ramuglia is upset about the ordeal because his service was never meant to be used for illegal activies and says Rubico definitely broke his site’s terms of service. Ramuglia added that every incoming IP address is logged with the time and destination website. Ramuglia told Goodin that he hasn’t a chance yet to examine his logs, but added that there is a good chance that it will lead to the hacker. Since the interview, he’s received a call from the Anchorage Alaska FBI field office and agents there are highly suggesting that he not lose the logs. But it gets even better. White hat hackers didn’t even need proxy information to find the culprit because they discovered that the Rubico forum handle was linked to rubico10@yahoo.com.This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it A few searches on Google and YouTube further links this email address to 20-year-old David Kernell, a student at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville. His father is Democratic Tennessee state representative Mike Kernell. As you can expect, the Yahoo account has been frozen and all the incriminating forum posts on 4chan.org have been deleted. But this didn’t stop Wired.com from printing some of the posts. Don’t you just love it when hackers brag about the “leet” skills? http://www.tgdaily.com/index2.php?op...e=0&Itemid=108 ================================================== = So...this guy was looking for dirt on Palin. Since she is an evil Republican, this is okay....right? What if it was Barrack who was hacked? What if it was you? What if it was Project Camelot? Many will say that Project camelot was hacked many times. This could be true. So do we really want to validate this, by saying that since the PtB did it first, we are okay it retaliating? Do we fight evil with evil? |
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Is violence really the way?
What's with the guns? |
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They're filled with "Love"!
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Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Just my view: but in many people there is a pronounced suffering savior archetype. These will stand out in front of tanks and raise a hand to tyranny. Their contract before reincarnation here may well be to be a suffering savior. He cannot do it alone. He needs people to keep him before the public eye or his sacrifice will go in vain If a mass support is kept going he will become martyr material and TPTB will not disappear him . Tyranny does not want martyrs! They can ignite rev ol ushun! To really help him AND OURSELVES, keep his name and work circulating across web. If not , and he becomes innocuous, it is easy to lose him in the massive system of misnamed justice. Send him kind words, keep his name on every forum, send emails , ( eyes read them ) and generally let tyranny KNOW we will follow him to his freedom. This way he stands a chance of getting out before he rots! This is how Ernst Zundel was saved from twenty years or more. He was kept in fornt of the public moment by moment, day by day from the day he was illegally arrested and kept incognito for two weeks in a Tenessee sheriffs jail W/O any charges ! An international cadre of supporters screamed across the web and even the insane courts of siun Germany would decide to stick to the law and give him what that law stated, five years but no time off for two years he sat in soiltary in Canada UNCHARGED for ANY crime. ( he was eventually charged with a thought crime, denial of a hoax is a thought crime in Germany and many other nations and Liberman and his cohorts are trying to pass same law here in America ! ) This even tho so many kept his name in the faces of TPTB He became an International HERO and martyr! This is NOT what tyranny wanted to happen. if we stand tall for Gary he will survive and be an ICON for all of us who want to get free of tyranny. He is a rev ol ush nerie of the first order ! re vol ushuns are ignited by FIREBRANDS who most often die in that process and become LEGENDS It is these very seemingly small events that re ignite the fighting Spirit in we older persons and LIGHT IT IN THE YOUNGER ONES! Creating rev ol ushun takes days, weeks, years ,to gather up enough Spirit to stand up to the OGRE with a thousand weapons. when that Spirit reaches its CRUX one sufferig savior will stand up and be the catalyst that fires that shot to be heard and welcomed round the world and across the web. It MAY be GARY, it MAY be one who comes after, but as the cycle ripens one will be. TRUST NATURE, one will BE. cycles overlapping cycles. and so it is... |
Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
DO NOT EVEN THINK OF CLOSING THIS THREAD More people will come in and read of Garys problems and how to help him. If any cannot see his problem is ALL OF OUR problem u r not seeing the core and tendril ends as all of the same octopus, tyranny worlds crises need exposure by such as GARY. we cannot seperate every crisis and focus our attentions on only the ones we feel threatend by they are all cut from ONE cloth and must be seen as usable to show people just who/were TYRANNY is his actions are inspiring many young people who get bored with some of the older ones ( me included) who post OTT intellectual and DOOM/ crisis stuff. ...................... free Gary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz_GtLJyUTo we are already using anti-ravity ( OOPS !) .............. HOMIES on the job: Project Camelot interviews Gary McKinnon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fNsa...eature=related ..... Keep GARY in front of the public ! ` |
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YES the only way to precipate change is violence but it must be prepared, laid out, planned, right down to the most infinite details and then the violence will only be quick and fierce and a BLOODLESS coup is accomplished. If one faction doesnt do it another will when the ruling body is toppling and rotten. several entities are right now plotting OT of American nation. study history ! :mad3: ` , |
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Then you trade the current PtB for new PtB that are no better.
So the point would be what exactly? |
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Interesting case... Do you think David Kernell, the son of Democratic Tennessee representative Mike Kernell, will get 70 years in gail for what you suggest is 'looking for dirt on an evil Republican'? Do you see Gary's escapade as 'looking for dirt on an evil PTB'? Is looking into the private life of a public servant, the same, as looking for suppressed truth - the actions of those who rule without a mandate? Does it matter if the door was open? Does it matter if you just look around? Does it matter if you steal the information (property) that you find? Does it matter if you alter the information (property) in it's original location? Does it matter if you damage the information (property)? or to what extent? Does it matter who’s door it was? or what the information was? Does it matter who you are? and who your father is? What would be a proportionate punishment? |
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I' ll answer your questions....just as soon as you answer mine:wink2:
Fair enough? |
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I did not direct the questions at you and to be fair I don't recall you ever answering any of mine in the past. But since you asked I will state this: I think it is stupid to do anything, which involves breaking the law! There are always creative ways to get to the truth without breaking the law! However in the event that someone has been guided or misguided to do so, and they have admitted to it (or partially have) and have publicly admitted that what they have done was wrong, I would like to see them judged PROPORTIONATELY AND FAIRLY! I wish someone will judicially review the UK government in the high court for their decision to engage in a non reciprocal extradition treaty and especially their agreement to wave off any need for EVIDENCE before shipping their citizens off to a country that practice torture, trauma based mind control, radiation experiments... Shell I go on? |
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Oh....I thought since you quoted me, you were responding.
I always try to answer questions posed to me. I don't know enough about extradition law, in the UK. It would seem that since he has had 3 hearings on the matter, and lost them, I see no violations of his rights. I will quote your other post and respond |
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will get 70 years in gail for what you suggest is 'looking for dirt on an evil Republican'? No, and neither will Gary Do you see Gary's escapade as 'looking for dirt on an evil PTB'? No, I believe he was doing what he said he was doing Is looking into the private life of a public servant, the same, as looking for suppressed truth - the actions of those who rule without a mandate? Breaking into someones private email account is wrong. Does it matter if the door was open? No Does it matter if you just look around? No Does it matter if you steal the information (property) that you find? No, but penalty should be more severe Does it matter if you alter the information (property) in it's original location? No but penalty should increase Does it matter if you damage the information (property)? or to what extent? Increased penalty Does it matter who’s door it was? or what the information was? Does it matter who you are? and who your father is? No What would be a proportionate punishment? That is not for me to decide |
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You really think that the Brits are innocent of these as well? Do you really believe that this fate awaits Gary? |
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************************* to get in the act and try to create a better social construct and you suggest what... to sit back and do nothing? or go to a neutral location and criticize all who get involved?? IF we do not take a stand for something we will be forced to live in the stand of views we find abhorrent ! not to get into SOME activity to make life better is to invite stagnation/death. CREATE change PLAN it to be better and it will get better not all at once, but noticeably so. keep practicing until it gets waaaay better and then, keep practicing. NO LIMITS. :wub2: . |
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seeing clearly,
I agree with your post. I am just suggesting that breaking the law, specifically hacking, is not the way to accomplish what we seek. Once we decide, what laws are right and wrong as it relates our own particualr views, it is a slippery slope that can only escalate. We have so little credibility already. Oh.....and violence is not the way. |
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is it just me or????
Gary have try`d to unveil a crime by the black ops parties with another crime by hacking, i got a problem with that, if these forces are to be disposed it should be done via whistle blowers and so forth, and not by sinking down to their level and do crime to expose crime. i think Gary is a person that are taking to much heat for this then he should, but a crime is a crime anyways.... criminal behavior is for lo life`s and not for serious investigators... |
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If a tyranny has set up laws that make a playing field with trap doors we can stay on that playing field in anxious attempts to avoid the inevitable trap door to our own demise or use " ANY MEANS NECSSARY " to create change. If animals are locked in cages you want to FREE them even if you get caught and go to jail. since all humans are in one huge invisible cage we must use what ever actions we can to get free, and we do have more than ONE life to give up to get all humanity FREE ! :sneaky2: or we bow to the current rulership As a female I cannot do that anymore.......! Unjust laws not made with the consent of the people are to be walked over to get to the chamber where we again make laws for US and not an elite! Uranus planet of revo lush un is powerful in my chart , cantcha feel it !?:lmao: I am not trying to make anyone a rev ol ushun erie here as I wish to keep respectful all round but ... OOOPS.. BS ! YES I AM! come stand in the line of resistance! just look at apppeasment and where it gets you. I can tell you stories about the justice system and keeping with in the laws all day , and you will never sleep good again.:mad3: will you stand on laws made to tighten the yoke around your neck?? or start acting now and to perdition with laws made to keep us bound to a Master not of our own choosing. we call for a REAL leader, one WE choose ! not efffete elites who live on the beaches of Baku and eat the rarest Beluga and keep hareems of women and children stolen from Western cities for slavery to perverted desires. and I know many here know what I am speaking of ! If people could really stand together it would never need to become violent... but as people will NOT stand together it takes a handful of very dedicated Folks to make as bloodless rev ol ushun as possible as is done often in history and is bloodlesscoup. We are fast approaching that level of BOIL and frogs are trying to jump out of it. Now there is no cool place to jump to so the young Folks will simply go wilding and be needlessly killed in the streets. Wiser heads must make the great flip called political coup or we will have many years of CIVIL WAR in American again. Cycles do go as cycles do go. s |
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Well then...we do disagree.
What you suggest just puts us in a new cage. |
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It is not what the persecutors PROMISSED Gary - that is for sure! Otherwise why would they make such a concerted effort to eliminate the evidence? Saying 'neither will Gary', is also saying a UK QC (queens Counsel) was LYING to the house of Lords in his evidence of what was PROMISSED to Gary? Quote:
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Because no hacker has even gotten anything beyond 10 years....99% are under 5 years.
How would Gary know if he caused damage or not? What about the damage you are said to have caused? McKinnon: What they call damage is really just them realizing that they have been accessed without authorization. Then they say things like I deleted 300 users, deleted systems files and such. That was one instance when I did a batch file to clean up all my stuff--I think once and only once, though perhaps I ran it on the root drive of the "c:" drive. But it certainly wasn't every machine I was on and, if you believe them, they talk about 94 networks being damaged. http://news.cnet.com/Gary-McKinnon-S...3-5786782.html *************************************** McKinnon unearthed unprotected computer systems operated by the US army, the navy, the Pentagon and Nasa. On every system he hacked, he left messages. 'It was frightening because they had little or no security,' he said. 'I was always leaving messages on the desktop saying, "your security is really crap".' One message has come back to haunt him. 'I said US foreign policy was akin to government-sponsored terrorism and I believed 9/11 was an inside job. It was a political diatribe,' he admitted. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...lcrime.hacking ************************************************** * Next |
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finally found a quote that was sticking in back of my mind I was looking for Jefferson as he said something similar but this will do: On the Duty to Rebel "If, by the instrument of governmental power, a people is being led toward its destruction, then rebellion is not only the right of every member of such a people—it is his duty." ********************************************** and it is time now for all who still resist that yoke to do whatever is POSSIBLE to do our duty. If we can only educate ourselves and others, so be it........... if we are able to do more active participation it is right to do so and hacking is a revolutionary act. :sneaky2: , |
Back to Zorgon's earlier post...
Back to Zorgon's earlier post...
I gave the following somethought Quote:
Here is someone else deliberating this and other issues http://ufo-evidence.com/ Gary McKinnon Loses European Appeal No big surprise that Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which has refused to hear the appeal. Articles covering this have McKinnon listed as a, “Computer Expert” which is a term he vehemently rejects, describing himself more as a stoner come truth-seeker. Surely this description is more damaging to the public perception of the US military and NASA whom have apparently allowed a stoner with a Perl script access to their most frequently denied secret, i.e. prior knowledge to/and first hand experience of the UFO/ETH phenomenon. Perhaps the UFO was an ‘elaboration’ by McKinnon? Personally I struggle to see the rationale involved if that was the case as surely the last thing Gary needs is people (often on) the fringe of the UFO community lobbying for his freedom. All of which makes it quite a strange case in itself, add to that the refusal of the US to allow Gary to be tried in the UK (which let’s face it for all intents & purposes was where the crime was committed) and I can’t help but wonder why the US haven’t swept this under the carpet rather than allow it to drag out and turn into the media circus that it is inevitably becoming. Surely regardless of what punishment the US judge deems fit to bestow it can only be unwanted publicity further highlighting the weakness of the computer systems and the amateurish personnel charged with defending some of the countries most delicate secrets (UFO/ETH related or not). I believe there is a little more going on than is immediately apparent but I’m hesitant to state my opinion at this juncture other than to reiterate my puzzlement at how the US is allowing itself to be publicly perceived as little more than petty bureaucrats intent on proving a point. And in doing so is instilling/reinforcing distrust in an already apprehensive public regarding their general modus operandi as it relates to handling secret information, and it’s an MO that ultimately exposes their massive negligence and incompetence as it directly relates to locking even the simplest ‘backdoor’ into their highly sensitive network. |
Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
Been watching this develop and good arguments that have ensued.
To the "he's had his chance in courts and deserves what he gets" I am dissapointed. Surely moraly he does not deserve the years of torment for breaking ******** laws that aply to virtual crime- it is not real. He could have mugged a pensioner on pension day and got less grief. If the system is as corrupt as it seems why should a citizen be squeaky clean and obey?surely exposing the corruption is a higher purpose. Its a different set of rules for the rulers -they just do what they want. Wonder if the extradition receipts come back at $700 billion? The UK gov handed over Gary when they know the States is being run by crooks/war mongers/terrorists and blasphemers.What does that say? "God bless America?" -God help us from America/n law/lawyers. To all the posts on Garys side "tob job" Poor Garys' mum ,keep going. The idea for the thread was to get a little bit of empathy for Gary. I liked the way he came across in the interviews. To put him in jail is a crime in it's self ,is he a danger ? is it worth the expense? NO send him home to his family . |
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********************************************* a very clear view and well stated ! :thumb_yello: . |
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Hey yeah...great post....maybe we should all stop paying our mortgages, since it only supports the evil PtB. Hacking is not a crime, just as long as it is for ufo's.....or whatever we can make up. Good luck UFO vigilantes! No wonder we are considered the fringe, and are never taken seriously. I am sorry for Gary and his family....6mos in jail would have been horrible. Gary has one person to blame, himself. |
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Thank you King Lear for being the humour king and keeping us smiling...
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"he's had his chance in courts and deserves what he gets"
That is just it. HE DIDN'T! Throughout all the legal comings and goings till this moment, all that was discussed in the courts is the law itself. Gary was accused, his crimes alleged, but NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER WAS SUBMITTED and he had not once the chance to refute it! The questions the court system was deliberating was: should Gary be extradited under the new extradition treaty, which by the way, was only ratified by both sides in 2007. So while most of these legal steps dealing with this point were going on, the treaty was only sighed by the UK. Like a lamb to the slaughter.... |
Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/22/hacking.usa
A vindictive sort of justice The US authorities are so desperate to extradite my son that they have changed the law. Now he faces 60 years in jail Janis Sharp Monday September 22 2008 11:30 BST Article history Any day now, my son, Gary McKinnon, could face extradition from Britain to the United States, where he would stand trial for hacking into US government computers and could face a sentence of up to 60 years. Gary has recently been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, which is why I and his family and his many friends and supporters around the world are arguing that he should be allowed to stay in the UK and face the courts in the country where the offence – if offence there was – was committed. The US authorities waited two years to call for Gary's arrest because of a then-unratified, unsigned extradition treaty between the two countries, which would make it easier for them to have a British citizen sent for trial in the US. Yet, when he was first arrested in London, six years ago now, Gary was told he would probably get a sentence of community service for his hacking activities. He naively admitted computer misuse before he had engaged a lawyer and without a lawyer even being present. We were still unaware at that time that he had Asperger's syndrome. Gary gained no leniency for his honesty and on the contrary, his extradition has been relentlessly pursued by the British and American authorities, despite the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) declining to prosecute him in Britain. This attitude will hardly encourage British citizens to come clean regarding any crimes they may have committed. If no leniency or consideration is given when a person accused of a crime immediately and openly tells the truth, there is little point in them admitting to anything. The CPS's decision not to to prosecute Gary here was clearly made to allow the Americans to arrest him two-and-a-half years later, once the one-sided extradition treaty was introduced and then made retrospective. In addition, in order to indict Gary, the US authorities had to claim a specific amount of financial damage. Gary has always denied causing damage and without proof of such, the US could not prosecute him. Just a month ago the US prosecutors stated in an interview that once Gary was extradited, the most difficult thing to prove would be the damage! Several weeks ago the goalposts were moved yet again when the US introduced a new law whereby no proof of damage was required where military computers were concerned. For the American law to then have been conveniently changed at such a crucial time does little to give us any faith in such a legal system. There is a London demonstration outside the US embassy, scheduled for 4pm on September 28 in Grosvenor Square. See the campaign website for more details. |
An Aspergers Man - New YouTube video
New YouTube video - An interview with Rasagy
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JykjcYWdB9o An interview with Rasagy In late September a group of concerned people came together outside the American Embassy in London, to highlight the plight of Gary McKinnon, recently confirmed as having Aspergers Syndrome, a form of Autism. McKinnon faces extradition to the USA for alleged damage to various computer systems operated by the US military. The demonstration was organised by the London Autistic Rights Movement, to highlight that Aspergers Syndrome is considered a disability, and as such no extradition should even be considered. |
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Gary McKinnon Case
I wanted to give my personal opinion on this case.
I feel the facts are going to come out regarding the secret space program Anyway. I feel our government does not want them released in this manner at this time. I think all the facts will come out when the timing is correct. Right now we need to get ready for the orchestrated global financial collapse. I believe this is a carefully constructed positive plan that is happening now in steps. Also, What happens with the presidency will be very interesting as well. I think Gary McKinnon won't do much time. I would be very surprised if he does. If they really wanted to make a example out of him it would be much bigger headline news. So what are your thoughts on this? I'd love to hear some more personal opinions on this. :) Peace, Ampgod |
Re: Gary McKinnon Case
People won't make a big story of him is because he does not want to.
If, as Kerry said, he stood up and said: NASA and the American Government has been lying to its people and taking all the Tax of the people to finance the Secret Space Program and hide the Existence of Extraterreestrials, watch how the story will turn out. In my opinion, Kerry and Bill should concentrate deeply on that alternative because it might set Gary free if the lies are uncovered publicly. |
Re: Gary McKinnon Case
I would think that the last thing the government wants at this point is a lot of publicity, that would get the public curious. Far better to spirit Gary away without too much fanfare, find out what he knows. try him and just let the media report want they want us to hear and then as Kerry suggested in another thread they can tighten up the laws on this kind of thing. I just hope for Gary's sake that it doesn't happen.
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