Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE)

Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE) (http://projectavalon.net/forum/index.php)
-   Spirituality (http://projectavalon.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=52)
-   -   Why making God unfashionable never works.. (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20133)

greybeard 02-18-2010 07:34 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
My two most favourite commandments are:

Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind and soul.

AND

Love your neighbour as yourself.

Love,

Kriya

im not much fond of commandments,
Gods will is so potent that He has no need to command.

Suggestions guidelines path to follow im all for but if we have free will then there is no commandment to apply.
As my parents would say. "On your own head be it"
Knowing that there is a consequence to every thought word and deed is enough for me,
and I can only speak for me.


All that being said if we can but follow what has been quoted by my friends then there is no need for the other ten, two are sufficient.

Chris
Namate

aroundthetable 02-18-2010 07:48 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lisa (Post 240397)
Blessed are you who have strong faith
who do not waver despite massive evidence to the contrary.
For you are the Chosen Ones
and you will surely pass through the Gates of Heaven.

Hope Heaven is as nice as advertised!
For those who are God-fearing, it baffles me why you would want to sit next to God for Eternity...

Anyways, one more word about religion and I will throw up, so I will stay away for awhile.
However, rest assure that I will be back, because I think that blind devotions are dangerous in a manipulated society.

Take good care! :wub2:

Good people have engaged sincerely with you in this thread, spent time answering your questions. Your response here tells more about you than it does about spiritual life.

beren 02-18-2010 10:06 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Greybeard ,I understand what you mean.
Also when I get confronted in my own mind about some of the things we are talking here ,then I stop and change the view of the things that buggers me.

When you have a kid of 5 or 7 years old and the kid goes and takes knife to play with , you say ;"put that down! You`ll hurt yourself! "

You will probably say that in a commanding voice. Also examples are everywhere on this track.

But when child grows a bit and knows how to take a knife properly when cutting bread or some veggie and when you see it doing so ,then you don`t command it anymore.

Child knows.

Same thing is with Heavenly Father and us... He commands us many things because we don`t know . When we grow more and know some things ,commands are not there any more because then , we know!
:original:

But one reckless son of God went stubborn and caused all this chaos we experience today. Many blindly followed him and voila!
Now when God tells us with a commanding voice:"stay away from Satan`s works,teachings,evil pride etc" then we should listen for our own good. Later on when we know more about this person named Satan and his works then we`d not need commands we would know what to do .

aroundthetable 02-18-2010 10:16 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
commandments could be taken wrongly, sure is damn good advice though!

beren 02-18-2010 10:26 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aroundthetable (Post 240511)
commandments could be taken wrongly, sure is damn good advice though!

Yes, especially if given without love and caring spirit.
That`s why it`s written in Bible that we should `test every spirit` ,to see who is actually behind the words spoken .

greybeard 02-18-2010 10:41 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aroundthetable (Post 240511)
commandments could be taken wrongly, sure is damn good advice though!

I agree with what Bern has said re children.
I have never regretted being brought up in a Christian society and I guess this thread is partly about the erosion of moral values ie everything is ok do your own thing stuff.
What we have lost, is respect for our elders respect for our teachers, respect for the police.
Im not debating the rights or wrongs of it, but it seems to me that the politically correct movement has a lot to answer for.

im 64 and have seen a lot as people of my age have.
Much of it is good. Mobile phone/ internet will keep you in touch with people on the other side of the world.
However teachers are terrorized in their classes, I dont have a fixed view on the strap as used in my school days but it was used responsibly on the whole. Pupils accepted punishment when they erred.
A policeman would give you a slap if you were caught stealing apples, now he would be up for assault.
I could go out and play all hours without my parents being worried as long as I was home by a set time.
In short I knew exactly where I stood, what I could get away with, there was security in that. If I erred I knew I was responsible and had the maturity to accept whatever the consequences of my actions were.
I dident have to look for the car keys, they were in the ignition, where else would they be.
Locking house doors, why?
The conduct was set by Christian ethics.

If God becomes redundant ( not possible of course) sooner or later the human race will cease to exist.
Anyway thats my take on it.

Chris
ps thanks for popping by the ego thread aroundthetable.

orthodoxymoron 02-18-2010 11:19 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
The first and last commandment should be 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods'. :mad3: http://www.hulu.com/watch/62950/star...st-commandment :mad3:

aroundthetable 02-18-2010 11:29 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron (Post 240544)
The first and last commandment should be 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods'. :mad3:

People in general have many Gods, the new gods are politicians, hollywood, disposable pop, crime and violence, racism, hatred and intolerence, the mass media, the next shock jock front page about the latest celebrities. Behold your new kingdom.

I surrender to God only, i am the nwo's worst nightmare.

greybeard 02-18-2010 11:34 PM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Orthydoxymoron
Is it the word God that you are not too keen on?
If so I can go with that, for God has been given qualities by human beings that would apply to a megalomaniac. My God is pure love. A God to be respected not feared, devoted to and loved.

Maybe we could agree that supreme intelligence is both on going creation and evolution.
Without that intelligence not even one breath would be possible. Life and so much more is that intelligence I chose to call God.
That is to my mind the Creator.

Chris

Frank Samuel 02-19-2010 03:07 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
I thank all for the answers provided to my questions. In the view that our inner essence is infinite and that the origin of all things was around beyond infinity, from that perspective I cannot imagine a parent who can judge and condemned his children because in a short life span they did not evolve into sainthood.
While Christianity does not believe in reincarnation it makes perfect sense to me. Never give up, if you fail get up, try and try again until you get it right. In my view all of us are ancient souls who are still learning and relearning from our past mistakes. The journey of each soul cannot be measure in time. I dare say that in past lifetimes many of us here where not benevolent beings, yet here we go again another lifetime and another opportunity to get it right.
That's pretty dam cool if you asked me, and this is why I do agree that the term God is always fashionable no matter what the culture or galaxies that we may be dwelling in.:thumb_yello:

truthseekerdan 02-19-2010 03:25 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel (Post 240611)
While Christianity does not believe in reincarnation it makes perfect sense to me.


orthodoxymoron 02-19-2010 04:00 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 240550)
Orthydoxymoron
Is it the word God that you are not too keen on?
If so I can go with that, for God has been given qualities by human beings that would apply to a megalomaniac. My God is pure love. A God to be respected not feared, devoted to and loved.

Maybe we could agree that supreme intelligence is both on going creation and evolution.
Without that intelligence not even one breath would be possible. Life and so much more is that intelligence I chose to call God.
That is to my mind the Creator.

Chris

God and Theocracy are inseparable. I much prefer a Representative Republic. There should never be an unquestionable ultimate authority. A true God would not play the part of God. A true God would not accept worship and praise. Does an intelligent deity facilitate my continued biological and spiritual function...in a direct way? My current view is that Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. No Exceptions.

Is your Supremely Intelligent God of Pure Love an actual being...or simply a conceptualization? I believe in high ethical and psychological standards...but an enthroned deity is a hindrance rather than a help in this regard. Does Love = Submission? (all too often?) Does Submission = Enslavement? (all too often?) I just think we have a God/Satan problem in this Universe. No proof. I'm simply testing the theory. So far...after months of posts...there has been very little serious discussion or any detailed critiques of this view. It's as if everyone is behind me in this venture. Way Behind Me.

:winksmiley02:Namaste:winksmiley02:

truthseekerdan 02-19-2010 04:13 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron (Post 240617)
:winksmiley02:Namaste:winksmiley02:

Oxy, can you tell why are you using the word "Namaste"?

Whom are you bowing to? Thanks in advance!

Frank Samuel 02-19-2010 04:32 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Just for the record I am not anti christian . I myself went to theology school when I was young. I spend half my life studying the Bible and historical facts concerning the Bible. As a theologian I spend many hours with colleagues debating the scriptures. I decided to keep an open mind and continue learning free to seek answers to the age old questions just trying my best to live a good life serving others as much as possible. Each soul is free to seek and find his true self without the judgment of the origin of all things. In the last few years I have learn more about our connection to our origin by using my resonator the heart, this has been an amazing journey. The answers are always found within our internal essence. Again I thank you all for stating your believes and viewpoints, it has brought back many memories and a smile to my face.:original::thumb_yello:If I can summarize what I have learn in the last few years it will be along the line of the song title, " Don't worry be happy ".
Goodnight to all...

greybeard 02-19-2010 05:18 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
orthdoxymoron
I would suggest if you are seriously looking for answers put in a scientific way then you read "Power versus Force" by Dr David Hawkins http://www.veritaspub.com/
and about him
http://www.veritaspub.com/index.php?page=about

You wont get an answer on a forum because the answer would be too long, though if you have a look on the "ego what is it, how to transcend" thread there are some relevant postings.

A translation of ego is sin.
The human ego is responsible for strife.
God is not responsible for what is done by humans, we were given free will.
God does not require prayer or even obedience, unconditional love is just that, unconditional.
The suggestion is to pray in order to develop humility therefore taking power away from the ego.
We punish ourselves by acting inappropriately towards others and reap what we sow.
In other words karma.

The system set up by God is self regulating through karma, and is therefore fair.
God is not describable in human terms and does not have human attributes.

Christianity believed in Karma up until the Council of Nancia (cant spell) ist century AD year approx 400. Thats a historical fact and at that time a lot of the chapters of the bible were omitted.

Just because I personally dont believe something dosent make it true or untrue.
Belief is just an opinion until there is some evidence.
Faith is a different ball game.
Faith says the kingdom of heaven is within.
All are equal, when that is realized then there can be no dictatorship.
Specialness is the last resort of the ego and how we fall for that one.

Chris

RedeZra 02-19-2010 05:42 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron (Post 240617)
God and Theocracy are inseparable. I much prefer a Representative Republic.


lol ortho will you suggest this in Heaven too

truthseekerdan 02-19-2010 06:01 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/a...gfaithlove.gif

orthodoxymoron 02-19-2010 06:12 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by truthseekerdan (Post 240621)
Oxy, can you tell why are you using the word "Namaste"?

Whom are you bowing to? Thanks in advance!

I Reverence the Divinity Within Humanity aka The Epitome of the Human Collective Unconscious aka The Holy Spirit. I seek the Exaltation of the Human Race. Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom is Within. Christ in You...the Hope of Glory. I See Christ in All Persons. I love others as much as I love myself. I Seek Human Sovereignty in This Solar System. I Believe in the God Who Believes in Me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IvPIWzQcUY World Without End. Almond Raw. :naughty:

"Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility." -- Sigmund Freud

The Andromedan Perspective Regarding the Future of Humanity is "Responsible Freedom of Self Determination...Becoming Truly Self Confident and Free...to Unconditionally be Responsible for Oneself...Without Being Coerced to Accept Some Higher Authority." -- related by Alex Collier

"We the People of Earth have before us the opportunity to forge for ourselves, and for future generations...a True World Order. A world where Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...not the Old World Disorder Demonic Theocracy...governs the conduct of nations. When we are successful...and we will be...we have a real chance at this True World Order...an order in which a credible United Nations can use Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom to fulfill the promise and vision of All Races." -- my rewrite of part of a New World Order speech by George H. W. Bush

"Like it or not, eveything is changing. The result will be the most wonderful experience in the history of man...or the most horrible enslavement that you can imagine. Be active, or abdicate...the future is in your hands." -- William Cooper

:original:Namaste:original:

greybeard 02-19-2010 06:40 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
God and Theocracy are inseparable. I much prefer a Representative Republic.

I think its a question of use of words.
Words mean what I say they mean. (The Queen in Alice in wonderland)

I dont accept that God and Theocracy are inseparable.
I am not of any religion never have been but draw from many.
I dont follow any teacher but draw from many.
I respect all.
Spirituality is much as you describe ie within.
Cuts out the middle man, have a direct line so to speak.
We are waves of the Divine ocean with could at a stretch be likened to a Representative Republic.
However the wave cannot say it is the Ocean,

My understanding of what God is has moved a long way from the God of the bible.
At present my main teacher is Dr Hawkins who was a devout Christian - gave up on God, became an atheist because he couldent believe in a god who would allow the suffering there is in this world, in the depth of his personal hell and dying of an incurable disease he called out.
"If there is a God I ask him for help" After a period of indescribable agony " God shock" he awoke ego less in the state of non-duality - enlightened freed from the bondage of ignorance. Years were spent there after in solitude in a bliss state. Thirty years went bye before he could language what had happened.

Of myself I know nothing but i trust those who know and there are very few of those as yet but the number is increasing.

Chris

Humble Janitor 02-19-2010 07:28 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 240525)
I agree with what Bern has said re children.
I have never regretted being brought up in a Christian society and I guess this thread is partly about the erosion of moral values ie everything is ok do your own thing stuff.
What we have lost, is respect for our elders respect for our teachers, respect for the police.
Im not debating the rights or wrongs of it, but it seems to me that the politically correct movement has a lot to answer for.

Since when were moral values exclusively Christian? They exist in all cultures. Also, why should organized religion dictate what people do, what they say and how they react? People are still free to worship their god. They're still free to speak. Are they not satisfied unless 95% of the rest of the country is following their god?

I have many questions for the moral values crowd and their claims of a politically-correct movement, etc.

While a majority of society is full of rude, childish people, there will always be a select few that stand out as kind, caring and honorable. Why does their religion matter so much?

As for respect for authority? Authority does not respect the people. Why should the people respect authority? I'm not going to respect cops, soldiers and teachers until they respect me. Their willingness to fight unjust wars and enforce unjust laws is a disrespect to people. Teachers that suppress the creativity of students are just as bad.

This isn't the 1950s anymore. People have gotten wiser over time.

orthodoxymoron 02-19-2010 08:05 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 240650)
Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
God and Theocracy are inseparable. I much prefer a Representative Republic.

I think its a question of use of words.
Words mean what I say they mean. (The Queen in Alice in wonderland)

I dont accept that God and Theocracy are inseparable.
I am not of any religion never have been but draw from many.
I dont follow any teacher but draw from many.
I respect all.
Spirituality is much as you describe ie within.
Cuts out the middle man, have a direct line so to speak.
We are waves of the Divine ocean with could at a stretch be likened to a Representative Republic.
However the wave cannot say it is the Ocean,

My understanding of what God is has moved a long way from the God of the bible.
At present my main teacher is Dr Hawkins who was a devout Christian - gave up on God, became an atheist because he couldent believe in a god who would allow the suffering there is in this world, in the depth of his personal hell and dying of an incurable disease he called out.
"If there is a God I ask him for help" After a period of indescribable agony " God shock" he awoke ego less in the state of non-duality - enlightened freed from the bondage of ignorance. Years were spent there after in solitude in a bliss state. Thirty years went bye before he could language what had happened.

Of myself I know nothing but i trust those who know and there are very few of those as yet but the number is increasing.

Chris

Show me a Theocracy Without a God. How about a God Without a Theocracy? God's Law = Fascist (so says Jordan Maxwell). Man's Law = Justice (so says Jordan Maxwell). I may not have gotten that exactly right. Notice the Fascist Symbols and 'In God We Trust' at the front of the Senate Chambers in Washington D.C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8qPXK8RKDI I know what you are speaking of...and I respect that. What I am concerned about is a Trojan Horse phenomenon...wherein people's legitimate and genuine devotional lives are hijacked and corrupted into an enslavement of the soul...by using God's name in vain. Isn't that a sin?

In a sense...a Government is a Church...and a Church is a Government. They are two sides of the same coin. The question is 'What is the nature of the Church and the Government?' A "Constitutional Theocracy is a form of government in which within the context of a modern democracy a particular religion is granted a central role in the legal and political system. In contrast to a pure theocracy, power resides in political figures operating within the bounds of a constitution, rather than religious leadership. A form of government (also referred to as a system of government or a political system) is a system composed of various people, institutions and their relations in regard to the governance of a state. ... Theocracy is a form of government in which a religion and the government are intertwined..." http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...onal-theocracy Could the United States of America be under a Constitutional Theocracy presently? Could the United States of America have always been under such a Constitutional Theocracy? See Article 6 of the U.S. Constitution. Was the 1954 Greada treaty simply an extension of this hypothetical Constitutional Theocracy? http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/future.htm Is the U.N. Charter superceding the U.S. Constitution a further expansion of a Constitutional Theocracy? To stop preaching...and go to meddling...How would the Roman Catholic Church function if it were based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...and was in complete harmony with the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Teachings of Jesus? Would a Pope be elected by the general membership every four years? Would the Teachings of Jesus, the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Will of the People...supercede Canon Law, the Curia, the Pope, the Black Pope (and whoever the Black Pope takes orders from)? Would this create chaos...or would it minimize evil and corruption? For Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom to work...the Roman Catholic Church would have to go along with it...and looking at history...this would be nearly impossible. The RCC is the biggest 'We Never Change Church' imaginable. The Sirius Powers That Be would have to order it done...or it would be a non-starter. For Sirius (and Alpha Draconis?) to sign-off on this...We the People of Earth would have to exhibit a significant level of Knowledge and Responsibility. There is presently a Forbidden Knowledge Explosion...and the BIG question is 'Will We the People of Earth Respond Responsibly?' How about a non-penetential and non-sacrificial Ecumenical Namaste Mass based upon the Latin Mass...Celebrating the Divinity Within Humanity? Now I'm really meddling! I'm an abominable heretic...yet I prefer the glory, grandeur, reverence, and awe of the traditional service...rather than the 'Jesus is my buddy, show-up in shorts and a t-shirt, praise-song, hippie reefer-madness'.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94sa1Byb7fw 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP5guVydW7w&NR=1 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4PO...eature=related 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq8i6...eature=related 5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBjqrPAUg8&NR=1

greybeard 02-19-2010 09:10 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
[QUOTE=Humble Janitor;240669]Since when were moral values exclusively Christian? They exist in all cultures. Also, why should organized religion dictate what people do, what they say and how they react? People are still free to worship their god. They're still free to speak. Are they not satisfied unless 95% of the rest of the country is following their god?

Oh Humble Janitor.
If you read my posts you will not see me say any where that that moral values are exclusively Christian. One teacher said its good to be brought up in a religion bad to die in one. I am not repeat of any religion but I had a Scottish upbringing which is open minded reguarding all religions and none. The society was Christian and the ub bringing reflected that. I would have been just as happy born in to any society which had values and respect for me.
Yes its not the 1950s I grew up in the swinging 60s sex drugs and rock and roll.
Wasent into drugs cept alchol. Played in a rock band. We had respect for parents each other etc. there was an amazing a,mount of freedom. Authority has taken that away,
I agree that now there is a lot in authority now that is not worrhy of respect.
So actually in many ways we are in agreement.
The trouble with wighting on a forum is that you can be judged on a few words, the context of where I am and where you are is quite different from a few words.
In essence Im saying respect is necessary to have a free world.

Regards Chris

orthodoxymoron 02-19-2010 09:24 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
People should probably study psychology, ethics, philosophy, and theology...and then think and do whatever makes sense and is responsible. I just wish for people to be good people...in their own unique way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYjcNR7W-Ow

:original:Namaste:original:

greybeard 02-19-2010 09:35 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron (Post 240699)
People should probably study psychology, ethics, philosophy, and theology...and then think and do whatever makes sense and is responsible. I just wish for people to be good people...in their own unique way.

:original:Namaste:original:

Yes I did study those things in search of truth and like you wish the best for people.
To my mind people who have no faith of any kind but are kind and loving are just as "spiritual" as those who send a lifetime meditating.

Regarding other things being said.
Personally I have no need of external structure regarding spirituality but accept that I am dependent on others for the essentials of life.
Whatever works.
Namaste
chris

kriya 02-19-2010 10:10 AM

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron (Post 240617)
God and Theocracy are inseparable. I much prefer a Representative Republic. There should never be an unquestionable ultimate authority. A true God would not play the part of God. A true God would not accept worship and praise. Does an intelligent deity facilitate my continued biological and spiritual function...in a direct way? My current view is that Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. No Exceptions.

Is your Supremely Intelligent God of Pure Love an actual being...or simply a conceptualization? I believe in high ethical and psychological standards...but an enthroned deity is a hindrance rather than a help in this regard. Does Love = Submission? (all too often?) Does Submission = Enslavement? (all too often?) I just think we have a God/Satan problem in this Universe. No proof. I'm simply testing the theory. So far...after months of posts...there has been very little serious discussion or any detailed critiques of this view. It's as if everyone is behind me in this venture. Way Behind Me.

God just wants our love. That's it. You have the power to accept or reject that, God has no power over you, if you do not wish it.

Paramahansa Yogananda said, that God does not know how great he is, otherwise he wouldn't be that great - no ego!!.

If you meditate upon God, sincerely, you will get your proof! And yes you are right in order to become God conscious you have to submit, but this is really about destroying ego, not about enslavement.

Lastly, Ortho, I think people have tried to answer your questions to the best of their ability, but you choose not to accept them, which is a different matter all together.

We all follow our own paths, right?:original:


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:43 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Project Avalon