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-   -   Poor Gary Mckinnon (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=585)

TheGhost 12-06-2008 03:51 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by murnut (Post 91577)
You made personal statements about me based no knowledge.



On face value, which is the same that you judge me on, your video's propose the net effect of anarchy.

Try following the advice of those videos, and see how far that "enlightenment" takes you.

"You made personal statements about me based no knowledge."
I do have some knowledge - we've been arguing for a while, now.


"your video's propose the net effect of anarchy"
They propose not bowing down to a corrupt legal system. There is nothing wrong with having a legal system - but there is something very wrong with maintaining our current, utterly corrupt legal system that RELIES upon deception of the public (the people it is supposed to serve, by the way) in order to operate.

The methods described, of deflecting and defeating 'legal' actions against you, are perfectly lawful.

murnut 12-06-2008 04:56 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhost (Post 91580)
"Now who is evoking some righteous indignation?????"
I'm talking about legal consequences for criminal activities. We do not have the death penalty in Britain (except for treason - so the people who supported the Extradition Act 2003 are skating on pretty thin ice). The point being that when it is threatened our normal legal procedure is to not allow the extradition to go ahead. Normal legal procedures have long since been thrown out the window in Gary McKinnon's case, though.

Gary is not charged with the death penalty.

I posted the charges, and the corresponding penalties.

Did you read it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhost (Post 91580)
"
"The damage took place in America"
This is irrelevant. The alleged crime took place in another country.

Cyber criminals can no longer claim this protection, just as foreign drug dealers cannot. The precedent has been set.

Gary's alleged crime took place in America. That is where the supposed damage occurred.

If Gary had sold drugs legal in the UK ,but illegal in the US, over the internet , to America only, where did the crime take place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhost (Post 91580)
"
"hacking for what ever reason is wrong"
There you go again with your childish, naive argument that legal things are good and moral and illegal things are bad and immoral.
The examples historycircus cited are substantially different to what Gary did.

I won't resort to your level of name calling, but instead, ask you to provide an example of moral hacking, other than Gary's.

Not a hypothetical one, and provide a link.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhost (Post 91580)
"
"it is no different than any group justifying it's illegal actions"
Do you think Nelson Mandela should still be in prison for terrorism? I could go on with other examples but I would like an answer to this particular one.

He did his time

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhost (Post 91580)
"
Do you think the actions of the Nazis or Communists were okay because they were legal?

Those that stood up accepted the consequences.

Gary and his supporters have not.

Understand the difference?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhost (Post 91580)
"
If the US government made it illegal to even ask questions about UFOs/ETs would you stop asking because your government 'knows best'?

No, but I would accept the consequences for doing what I thought was right.

Those that claim moral superiority, back up their claims with truth, not lies.

Lies from Gary and or his supporters.

Gary faces the death penalty.
Gary faces military tribunal.
Gary faces 70 years.
Gary faces Guantanamo.

The ufo community is generally regarded by the mainstream public as a bunch of kooks.

The ufo community is it's own worst enemy when it supports illegal activity.

Gary's case only reinforces this perception....and I reserve the right to speak out against vigilantism.

murnut 12-06-2008 04:58 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhost (Post 91590)
"You made personal statements about me based no knowledge."
I do have some knowledge - we've been arguing for a while, now.


"your video's propose the net effect of anarchy"
They propose not bowing down to a corrupt legal system. There is nothing wrong with having a legal system - but there is something very wrong with maintaining our current, utterly corrupt legal system that RELIES upon deception of the public (the people it is supposed to serve, by the way) in order to operate.

The methods described, of deflecting and defeating 'legal' actions against you, are perfectly lawful.

Which video describes a better legal system?

I agree that there is room for improvement, but no one ever seems to have a better plan.

Where is this better plan?

murnut 12-06-2008 05:15 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
For the record, I have no problem with Gary serving his time in Britain, if any.

But would Gary plead out right now based on this?

Say 3 years?

I doubt it

murnut 12-06-2008 05:19 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhost (Post 91590)
"You made personal statements about me based no knowledge."
I do have some knowledge - we've been arguing for a while, now.

I don't know you, you don't know me.

I saw a ufo in 73...200 yards, daylight, 30 ft of the ground.

I know the phenomena exists.

What the ufo community denies is accountability for it's own actions.

Misinfo and disinfo comes from both sides.

I say that it should not be present on our side.

It dilutes what we are trying to accomplish....or what we should be trying to accomplish...the scientific study

We can't force disclosure based on lies.

piers2210 12-07-2008 06:11 AM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
This is a great thread becuase everyone wants to know what happens to Gary McKinnon, as his case is of great interest on a number of important levels, which don't need repeating here by me.

However, i think the tread has run out of steam until new info comes to light. The best "new info" was posted by Gary's relative (anonypony) on 29th Nov, and antaletriangle on 2nd Dec.

I'm more of a "lurker" ie someone who joined this forum to seek/gather information, and some of what has been posted is disappointing, as it has no purpose in terms of "knowledge gathering" or genuine useful informative opinions - you shouldn't really have to wade through insults etc to get to the good stuff.

Having said that, i appreciate the postings of the ghost and murnut which have had some informative content especially when directed to the legal niceties of the case, and i understand and sympathise with the opinions of subsonik on 25th nov and historycircus on 5th Dec.

Can further postings have genuine informative content? Thats why i joined the forum.

May justice be done (which may not necessarily follow the law precisely) - as a former solicitor i know that the law can be circumvented and deals done - and above all i think and hope the truth will come out. That is why we are here. US tax payers whose money funds the US government activities should have a right to the truth. We UK citizens should hope that our own goverment supports the cause of its own citizens, howsoever and wheresoever that help is required.

Peace and light.

TheGhost 12-13-2008 03:10 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
"I won't resort to your level of name calling"
I wasn't calling you childish and naive; I was calling your argument childish and naive. Now lets suppose for a moment that you are neither childish or naive: why would an adult make childish and naive arguments? Propaganda, maybe?

Like the Nazis said about propaganda, the more people that you are trying to appeal to the less intelligent the argument must be, i.e. the complexity of the argument is inversely proportional to the number of people you are presenting it to. The internet provides you with an opportunity to reach a lot of people, so as a propaganda merchant (possibly even an asset of the the PTB) your argument is childish, simplistic and naive in nature.


"The precedent has been set."
Where and when, what case(s)? Were these cases criminally contrived like Gary's is? Because if they were they are not setting a precedent, they are simly more examples of corruption in the legal system.


"Gary is not charged with the death penalty"
Gary is not yet in US custody and if he is ever handed over to them anything could happen. If there was no possibility of the death penalty why did the New Jersey authorities involved in the prosecution threaten him with being 'fried'? Are they children making childish threats or are they adults in a position to make their threats a reality?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-of-Lords.html
http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,...331828b,00.htm
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement...9285950,00.htm


Do you think Nelson Mandela should still be in prison for terrorism?
"He did his time"
Is that a 'yes' or a 'no'? You wouldn't be trying to duck a question (once again) would you?


Do you think the actions of the Nazis or Communists were okay because they were legal?
"Those that stood up accepted the consequences."
Is that a 'yes' or a 'no'? You wouldn't be trying to duck a question (once again) would you? Did those who stood up accept the consequences or were they victims of the consequences i.e. victims of murder by the government?


If the US government made it illegal to even ask questions about UFOs/ETs would you stop asking because your government 'knows best'?
"No, but I would accept the consequences for doing what I thought was right."
Why would you accept the 'consequences' for doing what you thought to be right? Why should there be any consequences for you? Why wouldn't you, instead, fight those that are trying to impose consequences on you?

Fundamentally, murnut, why are you so willing to be a slave?
Why are you so unwilling to stand up to corrupt government officials, a corrupt legal system, corrupt police, etc., etc., etc.?

A jack-boot is stamping your face into the dirt and you (willingly it seems) accept it.

murnut 12-13-2008 03:27 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
You don't get what I have been saying.

Pointless to continue here, I won't be paying.

Good luck to Gary, and to all the UFO vigilantes....and just normal vigilantes like you Ghost.

In the end, most vigilantes are no different than the thugs they despise.

Goodbye Avalon!

I am at OpenMinds, Ghost.

I would be proud if you would join us.

Most in the UFO community vehemently disagree with my stance on Gary.

But what most fail to realize is that they are using the same argument as suicide bombers.

Actions are justified against the govt because they are evil....or because they are withholding are right to know.

No one would believe that these evil govts really don't know themselves

apple 12-11-2009 09:12 AM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Here is a recent video of a secret spaceship of a fleet in our sky which is visible when seen thru a special set of glasses. Apparently this is one of the things Gary McKinnin found when tapping into the secret military web program. The information was taken from George Ure's web page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOyizlAngFE

King Lear 12-11-2009 12:02 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by apple (Post 197408)
Here is a recent video of a secret spaceship of a fleet in our sky which is visible when seen thru a special set of glasses. Apparently this is one of the things Gary McKinnin found when tapping into the secret military web program. The information was taken from George Ure's web page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOyizlAngFE

I'm not quite sure about it. Most moving lights we see there could be
explained as satelites, because they are too small and one cannot see any shape!

But the one thing surely is something! The one which looks like an Eiffel Tower out of lights. That's definitely something! At least a secret military plane/space craft!




:king:

pineal-pilot-in merkabah 12-11-2009 06:33 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
I won't resort to your level of name calling, but instead, ask you to provide an example of moral hacking, other than Gary's.

Not a hypothetical one, and provide a link.


http://www.examiner.com/x-25061-Clim...hange-Examiner

climate gate emails: east anglia univercity climate research unit was hacked and revealed fruad , intimidation and a plan to put humanity under the total tyranny of a one world government run by banks.

NOW THAT IS MORAL HACKING IN ANYONES BOOK...

mckinnon is guilty of uncovering similar crimes against humanity with the information about fleet to fleet transfers of non terrestrial officers.

the legal sysytem is a sham, i am sovereign and was put on this eath by the one infinte creator to experience 3rd density excistence. i follow universal law not manmade luceferian legal tyranny.

IRISH-MYSTIC 12-11-2009 11:59 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Gary seems to me to be absolutely intelligent and eloquent ... vid was great on pcamelot!

Paul J Salmon 12-14-2009 07:31 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Just come across this a few moments back in my inbox. Any UK folks out there please pass on. I apologise if this has already been posted on Avalon today:


David Griffin 14 December at 18:30 Reply

Can any UK based people please forward these details or post them on sites and blogs.

Thanks, david, Exopolitics uk
--

http://www.exopolitics.org.uk/mckinnondemolondon/

Greetings all,

This is a last minute plea for support for an end of year, last chance show of support for Gary McKinnon. Recently Alan 'Where's My Backbone?' Johnson claimed he could not intervene in the unfair extradition process now in its final stages. Gary could literally be in the USA by the start of 2010.

The demonstration was set to include meeting up outside Buckingham Palace but this has been stopped in the last few hours by the Met Police. The original demo is however set for Tuesday 15th December 2009 - 12 noon to 2pm at the Home Office, Marsham Street, London. Details below.

Home Office

Time: Tuesday 15th December 2009 from 12 noon until 2pm

Location:
Home Office main entrance, Peel Building (between the defensive / ornamental moats ponds) , Marsham Street, Westminster, London - see this location map

Nearest Tube stations:
Westminster or St. James Park - see the Transport for London website for journey planning details.

Buses:
London Bus Route 88 Clapham Common - Vauxhall - Westminster - Oxford Circus - Camden Town, stops directly outside the Home Office main entrance in Marsham Street, supposedly every 7 or 8 minutes.

Brinty 01-08-2010 05:52 AM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
I must confess to not having paid much attention to this case but a question occurs to me - what did he discover that warranted such severe action. Or, more to the point, what did they think he had discovered.

There are more topics of a sensitive nature in the departments he hacked into, than you can shake a stick at. Some that we mere mortals haven't even begun to think about let alone that we've heard about.

It strikes me as odd that the British government has abandoned him to his fate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...of-Rights.html

Daft Ada 01-08-2010 02:38 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Basically he discovered proof of a secret space program. he found names of ships that are not listed amongst any that float and he found lists of transfers of crew members to these offworld ships, probably some other stuff I am not aware of as well :shocked:

G9211 01-08-2010 03:42 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Gary is my hero! :cheers:

lemon69 01-08-2010 05:12 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
can people stop saying hacked or hacker or any derogitory type similars, gary walked through unprotected computers ,it is like leaving your doors open ,he did not hack anything he did what any curiose person would do have a look around behind an open door ,
i like brinty wonder as to why so much interest, what has he seen or may have seen , who careīs ,not me if america is up to naughty things which the sheeple shouldīnt know about well that to me is worse than what gary has done ,
sometime i wish people would wind their necks in and change themself first before juging others ,,,,


we lie about aliens, we lie about murder ,we have secret groups ,by donīt worries its for your safty after all we are the government !!!!!

i think just clearing the lying out of things would help ,,

if potatoes wonīt grow in space what hope do humans have ,,,,

trainedobserver 01-08-2010 05:27 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
What he may or may not have found aside, Gary embarrassed what is most likely the most powerful organization in the world. He has fallen into the hands of a hurt and vengeful world power (quite literally) who has the law on its side. What a terror.

aroundthetable 01-08-2010 05:36 PM

Re: Poor Gary McKinnon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan (Post 2606)
Hi, KL:

That is one great graphic.



You may also know that Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell have gone on record to say that they will be willing to be called to the witness box under penalty of perjury to state what they know about the secret space program. This is pretty huge... more on this later.

Very best, Bill

gary mc kinnon could well be a huge tar baby, fly paper etc, hope this turns into a big success for gary. :trumpet:

trainedobserver 01-08-2010 05:41 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Quote:

You may also know that Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell have gone on record to say that they will be willing to be called to the witness box under penalty of perjury to state what they know about the secret space program. This is pretty huge... more on this later.

Very best, Bill
I would give my eye-teeth to see that happen!

aroundthetable 01-08-2010 05:41 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by apple (Post 197408)
Here is a recent video of a secret spaceship of a fleet in our sky which is visible when seen thru a special set of glasses. Apparently this is one of the things Gary McKinnin found when tapping into the secret military web program. The information was taken from George Ure's web page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOyizlAngFE


thanks for the link :thumb_yello:

Brinty 01-08-2010 08:06 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Thanks for that information Avalonians, it has confirmed what I felt may have been the case.

Kojak 01-09-2010 09:10 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by murnut (Post 91607)
Which video describes a better legal system?

I agree that there is room for improvement, but no one ever seems to have a better plan.

Where is this better plan?

A better plan?? Common sense might work Bro!!!! Gary is being victimised, forget all the legal jargon and so forth. Gary's a decent guy being victimised. Maybe they should concern themselves with their stupid security and move on, spend some money on the homeless, instead of pursuing Gary.

Brinty- the US, UK or your Govt, it's all the same. You can throw the Vatican, Masons etc into the mix, they're all connected to screw us.

DAYDREAMER 01-10-2010 09:36 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
I just hope that Gary has some more secret info that he is keeping to himself and can have revealed in the future (through someone else that he trusts) if the US govt puts him behind bars, cause he will have nothing to lose then.

pineal-pilot-in merkabah 01-14-2010 01:16 PM

Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-1866971.html



:trumpet::thumb_yello:


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