Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

Lisa,

Jesus did not have to reincarnate on this Earth 2k years ago.
He was already an ascended being (soul).

Jesus chose (volunteered) to reincarnate from Pure Divine Love that he has for us.
He knew that humanity at that time needed Him for spiritual awakening...

Hope this helps.

:original:

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Two posts that were immediately above this one have been deleted for inappropriate language and one that quoted same.

A..

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

Thank you Anchor. Appreciate it.

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14 chakras thank you for your detail answers. The purpose of my questions is to spark creative conversations emanating beyond words but directly connected to our infinite souls who holds the answers to many of these questions. Once we let go of the illusion of self many things become crystal clear. I hope my questions do not offend anyone for that is not my intention, I simply wish to stir your original mind to search for answers beyond the written word thereby breaking the barriers of our limited understanding of our origin. For there is so much more to learn and to grasp. I respect each one of your views and we are all here because we decided to incarnate in this moment in time for a very special purpose. Is an exciting time my friends .

Blessings and good night to all...:thumb_yello:

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Yes ~ And I forgot to put disclaimer above my personal answers above: Just sharing my personal take on things at this time ~ there is always MORE and discussion like you say Frank ~ that comes from us connecting to our own Divine spark within, and sharing what comes forth, is always the ideal ~ Espavo ~

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It is not fashionable to shun organized religion. It is common sense. ;)

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[QUOTE=14 Chakras;240072]What does it mean to be fully enlightened? If All is from the One source, then if I'm fully enlightened to that reality, that I truly AM an extension of my Source which is the infinite, then should I not at the very least, be able to do the works that Jesus did only greater works than these should I BE able to do?

I suggest, we realize, there is always MORE, and some teachers help us climb higher, but should we become dependent on teachers or teachings outside of ourselves, we can never surpass them. Full enlightenment to me, means knowing that I AM the eternal student, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to those who are as children ~ always learning, always BEING MORE
end quote

Dear 14
That is exactly it.
Hawkins dosent look for followers and im not one he is just more than I at this moment in time. You could say he is further up the mountain and is showing me and others a fast track to be more than I am at this moment.
Enlightenment is a well accepted condition in spiritual terms, and they, the mystics do see oneness literally.
When you have read his books in depth then the value stands out.
If I want more then I listen to some one who has more, not talking about it, but being it.
The books explain why few are enlightened and that is changing rapidly.
There is nothing that you have said that Im not in harmony with 14 it just a question of the way we express ourselves. Hawkins is saying similar to you.
Enlightenment may at some point in time be considered a kindergarten of spirituality because there is always more.
God is transcendent and inament Therfore he is in me and in you.
We are the totality all of it, we just havent had subjective experience of that as yet.
The Mystic has.

The Higher Self the God in me has healed people.
Its a question of levels.
I am aware of what Chris is saying and doing and many times I laugh but he (me) is fun to have around.

Regards Chris

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

The movie 'Legion' definitely made God unfashionable...and I haven't heard if this worked at the box-office. I went to see it...and I was disappointed. The premise had a lot of potential...but they blew it...in my view. The gratuitous violence and lack of real theological substance spoiled it for me. However...if you've looked at some of my threads and comments...I have speculated regarding Disfunctional Deities and Archangels. Viewer Discretion Advised. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9mFn9EhgU4

:mfr_omg:Namaste:mfr_omg:

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Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

Hello Frank,

I know 14 Chakras has already responded to your post, but as a religious studies teacher, I get asked this question about who made God about 3 times a day. This is how I explain it:

Think of God as a circle, infinite, without beginining or end, never born or died, just is....absolute

Think of humanity as a straight line, finite, birth at one end and death at the other, relative.

Because we live in a finite world with beginnings and endings, it is very difficult for us to understand concepts of infinity and absolutism.

I hope that helps,

Love,
Kriya

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Firstly, thankyou Anchor, did not read removed comments but i trust in your moderation skills.

Secondly, thankyou to all contributors thus far, all inspiring.

Here is another bitesize piece from the Bhagavad Gita.

Ch 16 Texts 1-3

The supreme personality of Godhead said:
Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquility; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honour...

This is a description of people endowed with the divine qualities.

Ch 16 Text 4

Pride, arrogance, conceit, anger, harshness and ignorance - these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature.

Ch 16 Text 5

The transcendental qualities are conducive, whereas the domoniac qualities make for bondage.

Ch 16 texts 7-9

Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behaviour nor truth is found in them.

They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust.

Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible acts meant to destroy the world.

.....

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

From the original article,


But, like a thirst for water, or hunger for bread, the appetite for understanding an ultimate reality and the fascination with the possibility that our origins lie within that reality, and that a greater peace can be found there – these just seem to be an intrinsic part of human nature. Deny them and you deny a fundamental part of who we are.

Even if you think that humans are weak, but part of human evolution is that we all move toward a greater understanding of our weaknesses and learn to deal with them; and even if you think that mankind has reached that point when all childish beliefs have to be put away if they threaten our safe progress; still you would have some explaining to do.

You would have to explain why some of humans greatest achievements in many fields have been inspired or nurtured by the spiritual impulse. Remove religion from history and it all turns into a colourless, sterile, biological narrative.

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

All too often...the church and clergy are extremely resistant to change...and rarely admit that they don't know or that they are wrong. God, the church, the clergy, and the scriptures have to look good...and be beyond reproach or question. It all seems to have a lot to do with money and power...and not wanting to spook the herd aka the saints. God is represented as having no beginning...being all powerful...all knowing...all loving...present everywhere...and as being the creator of everything. 'Creator of All Things'? Does this mean 'Creator of Ill Things'? What if everyone and everything...including God...evolved? Or...what if everyone and everything...including God (Gods and Goddesses?)...are products of both evolution and intelligent design? What if God (Gods and Goddesses?) and the Archangels (Gods and Goddesses?) have been (and are?) disfunctional (like everyone else)? What if God is a Reptilian Being? What if God is one of us (or two of us)? 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQEm_hI9_cU 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDOZW340e5k 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZEO1...eature=related I'm so gonna burn.

If the sun has spots...are we then to avoid it's light...and live in caves (or DUMB's)?

:wink2:Namaste:wink2:

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Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

I wish to focus on the 'Great Commission' in Matthew 28:19-20: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

What did Jesus tell His followers to teach all nations? "To observe all things whatever I have commanded you." Did Paul do this? Did any of the New Testament writers do this? Has any Christian church done this in the past 2,000 years? Is Romans through Revelation really Anti-Christ (in place of Christ) in nature? Is Churchianity the Antichrist? Is Protestantism really Reformed Catholicism? Is any church based solidly on the Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus?

Was Jesus a Red Letter Christian?? Indeed! He was the first! He was, and is, the CEO! Have His 'followers' followed His clear instructions? In most cases no! Why is this? Does this constitute insubordination? There may be some surprises in the hereafter! More importantly, what are we going to do to correct this failure to carry out a direct order by our Commanding Officer???

:mfr_omg:Namaste:mfr_omg:

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Oxy, just focus and become strong in yourself. Just be good and leave the rest to God :winksmiley02:

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Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

I'm the most reverent and irreverent person imaginable...simultaneously. I'm into the Divinity Within Humanity and the Exaltation of Humanity...rather than being individually God-like (which often seems to be more Satan-like due to getting the God-concept wrong). The big problem is that we have dressed-up and showed up at church...and left the rest to 'God' aka the Annunaki, Interdimensional Reptilians, the Vatican, the City of London, Washington D.C., and all manner of corruption. The Creator God of the Universe seems to be AWOL. We seem to be dealing with Wanna-Be Gods and Goddesses. I want to know what the hell is going on...and I want to know NOW. We have not been told the true history of the Universe. Alex Collier and Anna Hayes may be on the right track...but I am almost as wary of their versions of history...as I am regarding the official sanitized tripe. Unfortunately...I have a sinking feeling that when I am told the truth...I will hate the messenger...and wish that I had never asked for the truth in the first place. Truth is often a two-edged sword. Check out the links on this thread regarding Earth and Universe History: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...orthodoxymoron

:mad3::mad3::mad3:

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

My two most favourite commandments are:

Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind and soul.

AND

Love your neighbour as yourself.

Love,

Kriya

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

Blessed are you who have strong faith
who do not waver despite massive evidence to the contrary.
For you are the Chosen Ones
and you will surely pass through the Gates of Heaven.

Hope Heaven is as nice as advertised!
For those who are God-fearing, it baffles me why you would want to sit next to God for Eternity...

Anyways, one more word about religion and I will throw up, so I will stay away for awhile.
However, rest assure that I will be back, because I think that blind devotions are dangerous in a manipulated society.

Take good care! :wub2:

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

My two most favourite commandments are:

Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind and soul.

AND

Love your neighbour as yourself.

Love,

Kriya

im not much fond of commandments,
Gods will is so potent that He has no need to command.

Suggestions guidelines path to follow im all for but if we have free will then there is no commandment to apply.
As my parents would say. "On your own head be it"
Knowing that there is a consequence to every thought word and deed is enough for me,
and I can only speak for me.


All that being said if we can but follow what has been quoted by my friends then there is no need for the other ten, two are sufficient.

Chris
Namate

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Good people have engaged sincerely with you in this thread, spent time answering your questions. Your response here tells more about you than it does about spiritual life.

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

Greybeard ,I understand what you mean.
Also when I get confronted in my own mind about some of the things we are talking here ,then I stop and change the view of the things that buggers me.

When you have a kid of 5 or 7 years old and the kid goes and takes knife to play with , you say ;"put that down! You`ll hurt yourself! "

You will probably say that in a commanding voice. Also examples are everywhere on this track.

But when child grows a bit and knows how to take a knife properly when cutting bread or some veggie and when you see it doing so ,then you don`t command it anymore.

Child knows.

Same thing is with Heavenly Father and us... He commands us many things because we don`t know . When we grow more and know some things ,commands are not there any more because then , we know!
:original:

But one reckless son of God went stubborn and caused all this chaos we experience today. Many blindly followed him and voila!
Now when God tells us with a commanding voice:"stay away from Satan`s works,teachings,evil pride etc" then we should listen for our own good. Later on when we know more about this person named Satan and his works then we`d not need commands we would know what to do .

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commandments could be taken wrongly, sure is damn good advice though!

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Yes, especially if given without love and caring spirit.
That`s why it`s written in Bible that we should `test every spirit` ,to see who is actually behind the words spoken .

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I agree with what Bern has said re children.
I have never regretted being brought up in a Christian society and I guess this thread is partly about the erosion of moral values ie everything is ok do your own thing stuff.
What we have lost, is respect for our elders respect for our teachers, respect for the police.
Im not debating the rights or wrongs of it, but it seems to me that the politically correct movement has a lot to answer for.

im 64 and have seen a lot as people of my age have.
Much of it is good. Mobile phone/ internet will keep you in touch with people on the other side of the world.
However teachers are terrorized in their classes, I dont have a fixed view on the strap as used in my school days but it was used responsibly on the whole. Pupils accepted punishment when they erred.
A policeman would give you a slap if you were caught stealing apples, now he would be up for assault.
I could go out and play all hours without my parents being worried as long as I was home by a set time.
In short I knew exactly where I stood, what I could get away with, there was security in that. If I erred I knew I was responsible and had the maturity to accept whatever the consequences of my actions were.
I dident have to look for the car keys, they were in the ignition, where else would they be.
Locking house doors, why?
The conduct was set by Christian ethics.

If God becomes redundant ( not possible of course) sooner or later the human race will cease to exist.
Anyway thats my take on it.

Chris
ps thanks for popping by the ego thread aroundthetable.

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The first and last commandment should be 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods'. :mad3: http://www.hulu.com/watch/62950/star...st-commandment :mad3:

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People in general have many Gods, the new gods are politicians, hollywood, disposable pop, crime and violence, racism, hatred and intolerence, the mass media, the next shock jock front page about the latest celebrities. Behold your new kingdom.

I surrender to God only, i am the nwo's worst nightmare.

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Orthydoxymoron
Is it the word God that you are not too keen on?
If so I can go with that, for God has been given qualities by human beings that would apply to a megalomaniac. My God is pure love. A God to be respected not feared, devoted to and loved.

Maybe we could agree that supreme intelligence is both on going creation and evolution.
Without that intelligence not even one breath would be possible. Life and so much more is that intelligence I chose to call God.
That is to my mind the Creator.

Chris

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I thank all for the answers provided to my questions. In the view that our inner essence is infinite and that the origin of all things was around beyond infinity, from that perspective I cannot imagine a parent who can judge and condemned his children because in a short life span they did not evolve into sainthood.
While Christianity does not believe in reincarnation it makes perfect sense to me. Never give up, if you fail get up, try and try again until you get it right. In my view all of us are ancient souls who are still learning and relearning from our past mistakes. The journey of each soul cannot be measure in time. I dare say that in past lifetimes many of us here where not benevolent beings, yet here we go again another lifetime and another opportunity to get it right.
That's pretty dam cool if you asked me, and this is why I do agree that the term God is always fashionable no matter what the culture or galaxies that we may be dwelling in.:thumb_yello:

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God and Theocracy are inseparable. I much prefer a Representative Republic. There should never be an unquestionable ultimate authority. A true God would not play the part of God. A true God would not accept worship and praise. Does an intelligent deity facilitate my continued biological and spiritual function...in a direct way? My current view is that Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. No Exceptions.

Is your Supremely Intelligent God of Pure Love an actual being...or simply a conceptualization? I believe in high ethical and psychological standards...but an enthroned deity is a hindrance rather than a help in this regard. Does Love = Submission? (all too often?) Does Submission = Enslavement? (all too often?) I just think we have a God/Satan problem in this Universe. No proof. I'm simply testing the theory. So far...after months of posts...there has been very little serious discussion or any detailed critiques of this view. It's as if everyone is behind me in this venture. Way Behind Me.

:winksmiley02:Namaste:winksmiley02:

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Oxy, can you tell why are you using the word "Namaste"?

Whom are you bowing to? Thanks in advance!

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Just for the record I am not anti christian . I myself went to theology school when I was young. I spend half my life studying the Bible and historical facts concerning the Bible. As a theologian I spend many hours with colleagues debating the scriptures. I decided to keep an open mind and continue learning free to seek answers to the age old questions just trying my best to live a good life serving others as much as possible. Each soul is free to seek and find his true self without the judgment of the origin of all things. In the last few years I have learn more about our connection to our origin by using my resonator the heart, this has been an amazing journey. The answers are always found within our internal essence. Again I thank you all for stating your believes and viewpoints, it has brought back many memories and a smile to my face.:original::thumb_yello:If I can summarize what I have learn in the last few years it will be along the line of the song title, " Don't worry be happy ".
Goodnight to all...

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

orthdoxymoron
I would suggest if you are seriously looking for answers put in a scientific way then you read "Power versus Force" by Dr David Hawkins http://www.veritaspub.com/
and about him
http://www.veritaspub.com/index.php?page=about

You wont get an answer on a forum because the answer would be too long, though if you have a look on the "ego what is it, how to transcend" thread there are some relevant postings.

A translation of ego is sin.
The human ego is responsible for strife.
God is not responsible for what is done by humans, we were given free will.
God does not require prayer or even obedience, unconditional love is just that, unconditional.
The suggestion is to pray in order to develop humility therefore taking power away from the ego.
We punish ourselves by acting inappropriately towards others and reap what we sow.
In other words karma.

The system set up by God is self regulating through karma, and is therefore fair.
God is not describable in human terms and does not have human attributes.

Christianity believed in Karma up until the Council of Nancia (cant spell) ist century AD year approx 400. Thats a historical fact and at that time a lot of the chapters of the bible were omitted.

Just because I personally dont believe something dosent make it true or untrue.
Belief is just an opinion until there is some evidence.
Faith is a different ball game.
Faith says the kingdom of heaven is within.
All are equal, when that is realized then there can be no dictatorship.
Specialness is the last resort of the ego and how we fall for that one.

Chris

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Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

I Reverence the Divinity Within Humanity aka The Epitome of the Human Collective Unconscious aka The Holy Spirit. I seek the Exaltation of the Human Race. Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom is Within. Christ in You...the Hope of Glory. I See Christ in All Persons. I love others as much as I love myself. I Seek Human Sovereignty in This Solar System. I Believe in the God Who Believes in Me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IvPIWzQcUY World Without End. Almond Raw. :naughty:

"Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility." -- Sigmund Freud

The Andromedan Perspective Regarding the Future of Humanity is "Responsible Freedom of Self Determination...Becoming Truly Self Confident and Free...to Unconditionally be Responsible for Oneself...Without Being Coerced to Accept Some Higher Authority." -- related by Alex Collier

"We the People of Earth have before us the opportunity to forge for ourselves, and for future generations...a True World Order. A world where Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...not the Old World Disorder Demonic Theocracy...governs the conduct of nations. When we are successful...and we will be...we have a real chance at this True World Order...an order in which a credible United Nations can use Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom to fulfill the promise and vision of All Races." -- my rewrite of part of a New World Order speech by George H. W. Bush

"Like it or not, eveything is changing. The result will be the most wonderful experience in the history of man...or the most horrible enslavement that you can imagine. Be active, or abdicate...the future is in your hands." -- William Cooper

:original:Namaste:original:

Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..
 

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
God and Theocracy are inseparable. I much prefer a Representative Republic.

I think its a question of use of words.
Words mean what I say they mean. (The Queen in Alice in wonderland)

I dont accept that God and Theocracy are inseparable.
I am not of any religion never have been but draw from many.
I dont follow any teacher but draw from many.
I respect all.
Spirituality is much as you describe ie within.
Cuts out the middle man, have a direct line so to speak.
We are waves of the Divine ocean with could at a stretch be likened to a Representative Republic.
However the wave cannot say it is the Ocean,

My understanding of what God is has moved a long way from the God of the bible.
At present my main teacher is Dr Hawkins who was a devout Christian - gave up on God, became an atheist because he couldent believe in a god who would allow the suffering there is in this world, in the depth of his personal hell and dying of an incurable disease he called out.
"If there is a God I ask him for help" After a period of indescribable agony " God shock" he awoke ego less in the state of non-duality - enlightened freed from the bondage of ignorance. Years were spent there after in solitude in a bliss state. Thirty years went bye before he could language what had happened.

Of myself I know nothing but i trust those who know and there are very few of those as yet but the number is increasing.

Chris

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Since when were moral values exclusively Christian? They exist in all cultures. Also, why should organized religion dictate what people do, what they say and how they react? People are still free to worship their god. They're still free to speak. Are they not satisfied unless 95% of the rest of the country is following their god?

I have many questions for the moral values crowd and their claims of a politically-correct movement, etc.

While a majority of society is full of rude, childish people, there will always be a select few that stand out as kind, caring and honorable. Why does their religion matter so much?

As for respect for authority? Authority does not respect the people. Why should the people respect authority? I'm not going to respect cops, soldiers and teachers until they respect me. Their willingness to fight unjust wars and enforce unjust laws is a disrespect to people. Teachers that suppress the creativity of students are just as bad.

This isn't the 1950s anymore. People have gotten wiser over time.