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We are not one!
All those people who say that WE ARE ONE..... I would like to know how many are veggos....
The key and answer to saving our planet and to truly being at one with all beings and elevating ourselves so that we will be able to travel intergaticatlly.... simply lies within those who call themselves "spiritual beings" to start acting like "Spiritual Beings" and respecting all other living beings by simply stopping the mass murder of our planet's fellow beings for human consumption. Killing for food source has created a major KARMIC DEBT for this planet and for each individual. It's an easy solution to everything, I am sure a lot of you here would agree. Those enlightened ones know what I am saying please help me here.....:wub2: |
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I am currently working on curbing my meat habit. I am far from there but have really cut down on eating meat of any sort. One thing, and I think someone else on the forum mentioned it somewhere, I have always wondered is why it's ok to eat plants but not animals? I'm thinking this is a flesh thing or consciousness thing but isn't our idea of flesh relative and don't plants have consciousness? I can, at this point, only really see two things to eat on this planet - meat and veggies. I really have always wondered this and just can't find or hear a good answer within myself. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? Thanks for posting this krystal.
EDIT ADDITION: From what I have heard, Native Americans hunted/hunt and then used/use every part of an animal for food, clothing, etc. I have also heard that when an animal is used for this purpose it is asked if it is ok and then thanked for it's gift. I could be movie brainwashed or misunderstood. Unfortunately my contact and exchange with Native Americans is limited to some brief time spent with a Navajo family when I was very young so I did not think to ask about any of this. Perhaps someone could share and help me to break my ignorance. |
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The point I am making here is that there is great karmic debt in the killing of "living beings", animals have souls whilst plants have not yet evolved to that degree therefore the karma is not so great. I am sure others see my point here..... how can we be trusted as a civilized society when we are still acting like in the dark ages.... killing animals by the billions and destroying our planet in the meantime. |
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When we consider our conditioning, belief systems, domestication, education, it, amongst other things, has caused seperation. We became individual and everything appears outside of ourselves. I have, like most here, have come to realize the b/s of all our belief systems. We then start the journey of awakening, changing how we see the world, how we think, how we act, ect, looking for truth.
This world can be very hard to live in, All we hear about and see in the mainstream is mayhem. violence, distruction, ect. We have to forgive ourselves, We were not taught the right way of being from the begining and as we all know there are many reasons why this is. If everyONE was taught from the start, Love, respect and understanding for ALL beings and ALL things instead of feeding the ego's, this world would be very different indeed. It helps me greatly to remember, the only thing I have control over is myself, and that can be a mission at times... Keeping my own light shining is paramount as one can easily fall away if not vigilant... peace to all :original: |
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Quoted from [Malynda I don't understand how we know that a plant is not evolved enough to have a soul. I think my frame of reference is very narrow in this area and I would like to understand more. I always thought that everything that comes from source, god, whatever has a soul and that if you don't have a soul, you're not so very "good".]
You are most welcome Mylinda, I cannot claim to know everything about this subject but I have been researching it for a long time. I think that most of us know it is not right to eat the flesh of other beings and deep inside we all long to be Noble Beings but to answer your question.... we all have within us that which resonates in everything that exists which is "the spirit" or "vibration" which is I believe to be the Universal Force or God Force whichever we choose to believe, however there is also those that have "conscious souls" which means that they are more aware of what and who they are for instance an animal is more aware of itself than a plant wouldn't you say as they feel fear and love. Animals also have blood which runs through their veins. Cows, pigs, goats etc know when they are going to be killed and they often die in fear and not in love. Personally I've come to the conclusion that it's not good for me karmically to participate in the killing of animals and using my body as a "cemetery" for dead animals. |
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I agree that killing for the sake of killing is wrong and the way we obtain our meat is most often just plain cruel and unusual. I still am attached to the idea, if those are the right words, that plants have as much life, love, soul, awareness as every other thing, person animal on this planet. I am definitely missing out on something and I'm sure it has something to do with not being taught properly who I am for life. I really appreciate your views and your help in understanding this as well as your patience. |
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It’s critical that we bring down our greenhouse gas(GHG) emissions now. Dr. James Hansen, one of the world’s leading climate scientists and Director of NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies recently said in an interview: “Yes, we’re really running out of time… this next year or two years are the critical time period."
And in June this year, research by international climate scientists revealed grave news: “The world faces a growing risk of "abrupt and irreversible climatic shifts" as fallout from global warming hits faster than expected.” Though we definitely need to transition from our dependency on coal to renewable, sustainable energy, it takes several hundred years for the carbon dioxide that is already in our atmosphere to break down and dissipate. And meanwhile planetary warming keeps rising because we’re not limiting other greenhouse gases that can abate climate change much quicker than carbon dioxide reductions. There is hope. We can quickly reduce our impact on planetary heating by focusing on limiting the shor-tlived greenhouse gases (GHGs) like methane. Reducing the short-lived GHGs will substantially slow down global warming over a short period of time - this is what needs to happen. Methane in particular has a very short atmospheric life. If we stopped all our methane emissions now, the methane currently in the sky will disappear within less than 20 years and that would reduce a substantial amount of warming effect. According to the United Nation’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, methane has a warming impact 72 times that of carbon dioxide over a 20 year time frame. Limiting this gas is relatively inexpensive and will produce rapid results. In Australia, sources of methane are derived from a variety of sectors but the one that produces the most is agriculture ; 58.7% of Australia’s emissions are from animal agriculture. The methane from this sector is mainly caused by the digestive processes of cows and sheep also known as enteric fermentation. As well as being major contributors to global warming, livestock farming and feedlots have extensive impacts on our Earth’s resources: Deforestation o In Queensland, 96% of land cleared in 2006 was for animal grazing. Water Scarcity o Meat production, particularly ‘feed’ production for livestock consumes large amounts of critically important water resources. Land Degradation o About 70% of all grazing land in dry areas is considered degraded, mostly because of overgrazing, compaction and erosion caused by rearing of animals for their meat. Water Pollution o More than 2 billion tons of animal manure was produced worldwide during the late 1990s. Assuming an average nitrogen content of around 5%, this makes 100 million tons of nitrogen finding its way into our water systems. Loss of Biodiversity o Tropical forests hold half of the world’s species which are becoming extinct at an alarming rate due to deforestation for meat production. Not to mention the energy resources used to transport, refrigerate and process livestock into meat, and not forgetting the black carbon generated from deforestation specifically resulting from livestock grazing. Black carbon may only stay in the atmosphere for a short amount of time but is an incredibly potent climate warming agent. Avoiding the Tipping Points It’s essential that we avoid the tipping points identified by climate scientists – climatic thresholds that are irreversible once exceeded. Surpassing these tipping points will lead to catastrophic climate events such as unprecedented food and water shortages, massive changes in weather patterns, and the further melting of ice sheets that could introduce unforeseen rates of rise in sea level. Focusing on reducing carbon dioxide emissions Even if we could shut down all the coal-fired power stations tomorrow a problem arises in that these power stations generate, as well as carbon dioxide, sulphate aerosols, which have an immediate cooling impact. They lessen the impact of CO2 emissions from coal-fired power stations. Taking out this cooling effect without a quick reduction in other GHGs at the same time, could rapidly lead to an even hotter planet, running the risk of crossing dangerous tipping points. By focusing on reducing methane and nitrous oxide emissions now, we can avoid going over these tipping points, buying us more time to transition to renewable energy. What You Can Do In light of the planetary emergency we face, the single most effective thing that individuals can do right now to bring down net GHG emissions that doesn’t cost the earth is, go vegan. If changing to a vegan diet is considered difficult at present then the next effective thing to do is: * Eat less meat. Choose to eat vegan meals at least twice or more times per week. The less animal products consumed the greater the impact on rapidly reducing our net GHG emissions. If we are to save our world and ourselves from the impending dangers of runaway climate change we need to act as quickly as possible. |
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I just read something similar to that earlier this week and I understand the need to reduce the amount of meat we eat and produce and reduce livestock associated businesses dramatically. I guess I am just not a subscriber to all or nothing in this case but thanks for sharing your knowledge.
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As a lot of us here understand the laws of the universe of "Cause & Effect" they we also understand that there has to be a price to pay for the slaughter of our fellow beings. Have you noticed that even in the animal kingdom those animals that are veggos generally are non aggressive and more peaceful and in a harmonious state? |
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I disagree that all humans can do well as vegans ( no animal products, no meat, no eggs, no milk. ) But many of us can do well on much smaller amounts. Due to differences in biochemical types, some simply cannot live a healthy life with zero food from animal sources. My final tipping point on the topic was bottles of Vitamin B12 do not grow like fruit on trees. All non-animal sources of B12 are analogues, and are no where near as potent and can actually be detrimental. Nerve damage from lack of B12 can take a decade or more to develop and cannot be reversed. There is not much for warning signs, maybe some tingling in the extremities.
Weston Price Foundation. This snippet addresses issues of sustainability. http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtbeef.html Here's a key paragraph: A far more serious threat to humanity is the monoculture of grains and legumes, which tends to deplete the soil and requires the use of artificial fertilizers and pesticides. The educated consumer and the enlightened farmer together can bring about the return of the mixed farm, where cultivation of fruits and vegetables is combined with the raising of livestock and fowl in a manner that is efficient, economical and environmentally friendly. Cattle providing rich manure are the absolute basis for healthy, sustainable farming. On marginal land, wise grass feeding practices can actually improve soil quality and restore pasture land. It is not animal cultivation that leads to hunger and famine but unwise agricultural practices and monopolistic distribution systems. |
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WHY HUMANS ARE MEANT TO BE VEGETARIANS
Studies of human evolution have shown that our ancestors were vegetarian by nature. The structure of the human body is not suited for eating meat. This was demonstrated in an essay on comparative anatomy by Dr. G. S. Huntingen of Columbia University. He pointed out that carnivores have short small and large intestines. Their large intestine is characteristically very straight and smooth. In contrast, vegetarian animals have both a long small intestine and a long large intestine. Because of the low fiber content and high protein density of meat, the intestines do not require a long time to absorb nutrients; thus, the intestines of carnivores are shorter in length than those of vegetarian animals. Humans, like other naturally vegetarian animals, have both a long small and large intestine. Together, our intestines are approximately twenty-eight feet (eight and a half meters) in length. The small intestine is folded back on itself many times, and its walls are convoluted, not smooth. Because they are longer than those found in carnivores, the meat we eat stays in our intestines for a longer period of time. Consequently, the meat can putrefy and create toxins. These toxins have been implicated as a cause of colon cancer, and they also increase the burden on the liver, which has the function of getting rid of toxins. This can cause cirrhosis and even cancer of the liver. Meat contains a lot of urokinase protein and urea, which add to the burden on the kidneys, and can destroy kidney function. There are fourteen grams of urokinase protein in every pound of steak. If living cells are put into liquid urokinase protein, their metabolic function will degenerate. Furthermore, meat lacks cellulose or fiber, and lack of fiber can easily create constipation. It is known that constipation can cause rectal cancer or piles.:thumbdown: |
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Wow, thanks for that post, Karen. I will take a look at the website you listed. I think balance is the key and your post seems to point that out. Thanks again. :original: |
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Christianity
Thou shalt not kill. ~ Exodus 20:13, Holy Bible It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer and die. ~Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2418 Those who eat meat break the Five Constant Virtues. 1. Killing animals to satisfy our taste is inhumane. 2. Killing animals, causing separation in their family, in order to feed our relatives are unrighteous. 3. Making befoul food offering from animal meat to the deities is disrespectful. 4. Praising the eating of animals as if it is God‟s gift so as to justify the killing of animals is unwise. 5. Lure and trick animals into the snare is untruthful. Worldly people must keep the five constant virtues; breaking these intentionally is to break the moral principles. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat. ~ Genesis, Holy Bible[/B][/COLOR] |
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I don't think it matters what you do or don't eat.
We are one, regardless of our spiritual beliefs, our genders, our backgrounds and even what we eat. My ancestors ate meat and they were likely quite spiritual folks that knew how to respect the land and nature herself. |
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Some people tried with all their might, almost to the point of death to live on vegan diets. Some people can do it. Other's don't have the biochemistry for it. Main thing: listen to your body. http://www.beyondveg.com
Frank Talk about Vegetarian, Vegan, and Raw Diets & Beyond http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/frank-talk/index.shtml http://www.chetday.com/billings.html Beyond Denial: Coming to Grips with Reality in the Veg/Raw Movements An Interview with Tom Billings by Tom Billings Issue 2, February 2000 Copyright (c) 1999, 2000 by Thomas E. Billings. [Editor's Note: In this interview with Thomas E. (Tom) Billings, a long-time vegetarian with extensive experience in a wide range of raw and living-foods diets, you'll have many assumptions challenged. This piece is not for those whose minds are clamped shut. Tom's involvement in raw, vegan, and vegetarian diets goes all the way back to the late 1960s and early 1970s, when vegetarianism and raw diets were blossoming as part of the counterculture movement of the time. Tom is a site editor for Beyond Vegetarianism, http://beyondveg.com, a controversial Internet website that challenges many of the traditional beliefs of raw, vegan, and alternative diets. ... -- Chet] |
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Unfortunately it's not longer the case. |
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Our bodies do not function the same. Therefore, a vegetarian or vegan diet is not right for everybody. |
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The American Native Indians are widely considered to be have been spiritually evolved and in balance with their environment, yet many of thier number ate buffalo. There was a key difference. In my view, the Karmic debt comes more from the complete lack of respect and correct treatment of the other beings of the planet that are eaten. Additionally people do need a chance. Have some compassion for those that still need time to make a transition. You are talking about a world that has been usurped by master mind controllers, and intensive farming of meat is a greed/money making thing for them. Again karmic issues for all this. We are one; yet, here in our mode of existance, as we punch these keys, we are individuals within one, and as such we are by definition different. The job is to let the light shine and do its job, without necessarily forcing the process (freewill infringement) or thinking we are fit to tell the univese how to do its job. A.. |
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That's more like it. :original: I'm sure you understand that we are all on different paths at this time and that sometimes we need time and information to come up to higher levels. I look forward to you sharing more to help us understand. Please remember to be patient with all of us and thank you for sharing your knowledge. |
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right now, we have to reverse our actions. We have to be kind to our co-inhabitants and live in harmony with everything. |
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I think deep down most people who are not yet vegetarian will feel the need to move in that direction and I reckon many have. It is NOT easy and should not be made to sound so (and I dont mean to imply that you did). Personally, about fifteen years ago I spent five years moving from red meat diet to vegetarian and I still eat diary products (but not so much as I used to). Some people can just switch, others need time. A.. |
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There is a spirituality forum in the Project Avalon section. I can move this thread there if you like.
A.. |
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I dunno, I personally don't buy into the whole "some people can't live without meat" argument.
What does eating flesh have that you can't get out of some form of fruit, veggie, or nut? Going veggie only takes careful consideration, and you have to make sure you balance your meals out properly, stay away from anything soy for one thing. GMO Soy is sort of the food that is pushed on vegetarians, so no wonder they would get sick. :lmfao: I agree with the op as well, it is sort of an oxymoron to claim one is 'spiritually enlightened' if they still make other beings suffer greatly to sustain themselves. That being said I also sympathize with meat eaters. I know how ingrained it has become in our consciousness, and it does taste damn good, I miss some of the meals. :sad: Giving up one pleasure will always be replaced with another pleasure in some form or another. |
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Interesting discussion!!!
Also to note is the Blood Type... type O's are specifically meat eaters, where as A, B, and AB may find it very easy to be vegetarians. Type O operates at a slightly higher Acid base in the body, plus the type of protein that comes from meat is far more potent which has already been covered here. Also, there are many 'thanksgivings' for animals who are prepared for food; 'Kosher' ritual just to name one. But most important to me anyway is you do not have my permission to throw the Karma bag on me for something that you have no say or control over, nor do you have the right to interfere with my choice of living as if your way is the right way!!!!!!!!! Cause and Effect works very effectively and certainly atrocity's to the planet and all kingdoms are and have been going on for a long time... trial and error lessons do work eventually to bring balance but only if you pray to the Virgin Mary... that is a joke, but a point made about the difference in beliefs or current state of understanding. Try telling someone to stop taking their medications because they are just synthetic duplicates of plants and were tested on animals, or actually I would tend to think that the animal suffrage at the hands of pharmaceutical company's testing and lab experiments would be far greater than the food source animals provide. And certainly there are many abuses of animals no doubt about it... next time you wear any kind of make-up think about all the animals that were tested on to perfect the formula... actually how about all the household products in your cupboards right now... these are tested on animals. My point being is chem-trails and toxic tap water and irradiated dead and packaged food in the grocery stores is far more debilitating to the body than red meat... besides I see a whole lot of unhealthy looking vegetarians in the health food stores these days... but that is just my observation and opinion. Anyone care to start naming all the diseases that stem from red meat protein deficiency? Besides red meat is just converted plant material; Alchemy, ... no different than plants which are converted from Sunlight!!!!!!!!!! There are only two elements that exist in the Universe... Metal and Crystal of which support Wood... and the mutation and transmutation of elements moves up the kingdoms towards higher levels of existence to which 'Animations' of Divinity live in!!! Is a plant or animal any less than Divine Intelligence? |
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Here are some more quotes from the past about this subject. :original:
Thou shalt not kill any living thing, 'for life is given to all by God, and that which God has given, let not man taketh it away.' -Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve “Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of something to eat.” -Romans 14:20 “And the flesh of slain beasts in his body will become his tomb. For I tell you truly, he who kills, kills himself, and whoso eats the flesh of slain beasts, eats the body of death. -Jesus, The Gospels of Peace “Mam Sa Khadatit Mamsah”... “I am killing this animal; I am eating him. And in my next lifetime he'll kill me and eat me” -Vedic Verse “I say unto all who desire to be my disciples, keep your hands from bloodshed and let no flesh meat enter your mouths, for God is just and bountiful, who ordaineth that man shall live by the fruits and seeds of the earth alone.” -Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve; Lection 38 Woe unto the crafty who hurt the creatures of God, Woe unto the hunters for they shall become the hunterd.” -Jesus, Gospel of the Nazarenes “Love thy God with all thy heart, and love they neighbour as thyself. Blessed are they who keep this law, for God is manifest in all creatures, All creatures live in God, and God is hid in them.” -Jesus, Lection 75, Gospel of the Holy Twelve “Cow killers and cow eaters are condemned to rot in hell for as many thousands of years as there are for each hair on the body of every cow they eat from.” Sri Caitanya Caritamrita, Chapter 17 verse 166 “He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man.” -Isaiah 66:3 “With sober living, well-being increases in the household, animals are in safety, there is no shedding of blood, nor putting animals to death. The knife of the cook is needless; for the table is spread only with the fruits that Nature gives, and with them they are content.” -St.Basil (D.379) |
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Great post, Christo888. :thumb_yello: |
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I'm type O. And I'll admit I had a hard time at first adjusting to living without meat. I had a huge drop in energy after the first few months. But I kept with it, kept trying new types of foods and just refusing to give in. Now I have adjusted and have gotten back even more energy then before, I know this because I'm a long distance runner, so it is quite easy for me to gauge my over all energy levels. Switching to 90% raw is what really boosted my energy levels back up, before I was still cooking my veggies more often then not.
It is truly and endless argument though, many points can be brought up on each side, it really comes down to personal experience. I still think the strongest argument is simply not having to kill animals to eat though. :tongue2: Quote:
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life feeds on life on every level. I do think it important to watch what you eat. and how its harvested and raised. personally, I do some hunting. actually spearfish. lobster hunting, crabbing, scallop harvesting. Im selective. target by species and when spear fishing I usually free dive, usto do a lot of hook and line. but had a hard time with the by catch. the regulations require you to know your species and most have limits. free from hormones and chems for the most part. except for what we humans dump in the ocean. personally I think that flushing our toilets and farming are a greater threat and ultimate disrespect to the living creatures in the ocean and to the planet and to us all. and the list go on. as most of you know. though my views are changing and its not so much about eating meat than it is about the environment and species extinction. heck it in the bible. give a man a fish he eats for a day. teach a man to fish he will have substance for a life time. I think jesus was a fisherman along with a few other things. plants are living. the planet is living. and is constantly replenishing itself. Im against mass farming of livestock. not so much hunting. better for the planet hunting is than farming. I dont feel to much guilt for hunting or gathering some food. it connects me with nature. especially when dun responsibly. I a scuba diver and every time I enter the ocean I enter the food chain. animals eat animals. plants eat plants. and vis versa. its the wheel of life. were all guilty in one way or another. and its no more spiritual or evolved to eat plants than it is to eat a fish or a buffalo. if you waste it. or just killing for sport. well maybe that karma debit may aply? hard to tell. Im not the great spirit. but as far as I can see all cultures have stories uf hunting and gathering for food. its a personal choice. I say stop flushing your waste into the ocean and destroying the environment of all the ocean creatures. go get a composting toilet. if you feel so concerned about the living. and only eat dead plants that lived a full and productive life. they have a propose here to. feeding the bees, mushrooms, ect.....ecttt... life feeds on life... until er can manifest food from thin air. Ill be eating... what's available...and making the best with what I have. and I will give thanks.. to the great spirit.
The Spirit clearly says that in the latter days some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving |
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Leaving the animals alone, and not using them for anything harmful will be a great day!!!
And hey there are currently 30,000 people living on this planet right now that do not eat or drink anything, they simply have balanced a perpetual eco-system within themselves, they are called Suneaters. It is a process and one that takes eons to get there! We are all made of the Sun.:lol3: |
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Wow krystal
Thx very much for preaching at me and telling me that I am wrong and a very bad person. Sorry but after reading your posts I have no respect for you and your beliefs, we already know that you don't respect for others. I am glad that "We are not one!" Yes I am a meat eater, I love the taste of meat, even raw meat. But I carry no KARMIC DEBT for my actions. Yes I believe that souls live in all animals, but I don't as you seem to do put mankind as being at the top of the tree. An animal may only live for a short time before being murdered and used to feed a human, but even a short life ending in pain can be very rewarding for a soul as it travels along its path. Would you deny a soul the chance of that? I have worked on farms and witnessed animals that only had a few months to live actually having a great time and really enjoying the time they are alive. If you had your way animals would not be given life at all. I do not feel a tiny bit of guilt from enjoying the taste of a dead chicken as it passes through my mouth into the graveyard in my stomach. You have very different ideas of what is going on on this planet. Global warming??? Do you really beleive that? The bible is not a crediable source of information, been alterted far to many times and is now IMO a work of fiction. Does this mean I will go to hell? Quote:
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Please come down off your mightier than thow pedistal and stop telling others how to live their lives, we are all equals here whether you like it or not. We are all walking our own spiritual paths and people like you trying to force your opinions on others even to the extent of creating a guilt feeling actually have the opposite effect of what you are trying to achive. If you feel guilty for what you have done in the past then that is your problem please don't try to put your guilt on to us. I will be thinking of you when I eat my breakfast of dead pig and chicken fetus :tongue2: Oh by the way your idea that a plant can grow back the limb you cut off to eat doesn't work with a carrot. :wink2: |
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That's why I haven't tried it!!!:lol3: |
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