Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

I agree with you Artvision.
I believe that to modify our way of thinking we need to step into our hearts and start to look at things and feel through our real eyes, the soul's eyes.
The mind allows for dichotomies that the heart only can unify.

Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

This is an interesting point Oliver.
I personnally find a lot of inspiration in " The art of peace " laid out by Morihei Ueshiba.
The Art of peace contains 114 quotations .
This is the first one :

The Art of Peace begins with you. Work on yourself and your appointed task in the Art of Peace. Everyone has a spirit that can be refined, a body that can be trained in some manner, a suitable path to follow. You are here for no other purpose than to realize your inner divinity and manifest your innate enlightenment. Foster peace in your own life and then apply the Art to all that you encounter.
http://omlc.ogi.edu/aikido/talk/osensei/artofpeace/

Please go ahead and present us something that we can then discuss.
Follow your heart.

Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

YES OLIVER! YOU HAVE RIGHT!

We need something like a guiding set! Some guideline as:

1. Against what we prepare and why we consider that a threat?
2. Survival Checklist - What we need to take in consideration and why!
3. Bug-out or fleeing. To flee to retreat or living in it.
4. Retreating - How we construct/features
5. Water providing, producing, storage - Technologies, techniques
6. Food Storage - What food we store/ Short term, medium and long term solutions
7. Security / Defending / Weapons/Military training/battle training
8. Communication means: between us, with other communities, with world
9. Organizing with community organizing as a micro society - we can create one of ours, after our will, not others :wink2:
10. Survival Library - Books, magazines, computers CD, disks, ebooks, etc
11. Medical Issues and Health. Plants and herbs. Minerals. Exercises
12. Energy - Solar - Wind - Etheric or RADIANT energy (why not?)
13. Spirituality and enlightenment of the being
14. Agriculture, Aquaculture, animal raising
15. Canning and food preserving
16. Producing, reparing and maintaining things. Learning crafts, etc
17. Learning and teaching

etc,etc
Please feel free about to add.

We can make a general discussion with what is good and what is bad and why, according with other member vast experience. We can then gather some guiding lines, where people can easily start with a retreat or at list have some tclear line of thought in their hands. If the situation would rapidly degrade, at list to know what to do ASAP, without loosing prcious time, then when SHTF.
Why I'm saying that? Because most of the people never put such questions in their life:

1. What you will do if electric power is off?
2. What you will do if there is no police and security maintaining forces?
3. What will do if all supermarkets and shops will suddenly close?
4. What will do if the city service will not pick-up the garbage from tomorrow?
5. What will do if phones, internet will cease suddenly to function?
6. What will do if when trying get money from ATM they will not work and leave you without cash?
7. What will do if most of the banks will close their doors and will be cordoned by security forces armed to their teeth?
8. How I will go in contact with my family now?
etc, etc.

Some people face that challenging, some a few of them, some many of them. But most of people and maybe younger they NEVER FACED SUCH things.

I think that collective knowledge would be an invaluable resource.
Therefore I found some:

Argentina Collapse: http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.08/tshtf1.html

Albania Collapse:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...d.php?t=151761

Fleeing of population when Hitler Invading France:
http://www.ebookee.com/Fleeing-Hitle...40_214981.html

What really happened with Katrina and workarounds:
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/bl...ns/p/0007.html

What is happening when disasters hit. Especially with EMP, but not only:
Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack:
http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2...ission-7MB.pdf

etc, etc

Please feel free to add from other places or better, from personal experience. Such what happened in Serbia on war, or in Rwanda, or when tsunami stroke in Thailand, when drought in Australia, or problems from other places, where you people may have been or heard stories.

As the things will unfolding with such a rapid pace, we need to have procedure in places. Then we do not have time to think, we just need to act. As fast and as efficient will be life saving! I had a home almost exploding near my hous in an compound. My wife left immediately the house as the neighborhood fire was extending faster and dangerous to us. SHE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. If the fire wouldn't be quickly extinguished by the firefighters, we wouldn't have then, ANY PASSPORTS, CREDIT CARDS, NOR MONEY, just a few banknotes that I would have with me in my wallet. From then on, (this was a trigger for us) we started to consider procedures and what-if scenarios and prepare for them. What I will do in this case, or that case? etc Running scenarios. Army does that. Big corporation do that, also people may benefit from such scenario preparation.

A foundation stone for our trial of establishing some retreat best practices code, I consider to be this novel:

Triple Ought, written by James Wesley Rawles;
http://survivalbible2001.com/SB-2001...ON/001gray.htm

Rawles which is the founder of the SurvivalBlog.com (which I follow regularily by RSS and find very usefull) and which is a follower of Mel Tappan which started the trend of survivalist in early 70's (if I'm not wrong)

Please make yourself time and read the novel, Triple Ought, as it is full of insights and ideas how a retreat/organisation should function!
I mean I find a lot of things of high value there, things as one may never thought about, in the first places. Really is so important that I already start to draw MindMaps :thumb_yello:

Really is very eye opening for our subject!

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

I might add something here . We were never given the authority to own the earth you can not own that which is a living thing you are merely a steward of the land . That being said in the future what ever comes to be, we will be citizens of earth.
There are going to be no borders or countries. Laws of commerce will become a thing of the past they are no longer required true individual freedom will be ours to behold.
So any one openly throwing out the promise of come and live on my land is out there as far as I can see. It was never his to begin with you are merely adding value to something the current government in America plans to take from its citizens regardless of how much money they own

We are trying to end the current system of taxing slave labour for existence not perpetuate it

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Thank you WiNaDeYo, for resonating with my thoughts! This is really nice! :original:

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Regarding this novel and the things very well highlighted by Northern Boy, related with the issue of owning/no owning the land and of that of TAXES raising are right or wrong, you will se that the people even after passing thru devastating experiences, death, starvation, arson, rapings and beatings, they STILL DON'T GET IT! ONCE AGAIN THEY STARTED TO REINSTATE THE TAXATION AND THE LAND OWNING RIGHTS & STUFF, forgetting that everything they passed thru few years ago, IT WAS JUST BECAUSE OF THAT! Because of greed of some individuals/governments and which do not care only for themselves, thus put billions to great sufferance. Just an example of what short is the memory of people and how difficult is to make peolpe changing their attitude, mentality.

Related with land owning, we are just users, a temporary tenants and it is a very high infatuation to think we own the land. We own nothing; we own to the nature, to the planet. If Terra wants, gets rid immediately of us, as you say 1, 2 ,3 ! No need to make us a proof, a small earthquake is just enough reminder.:lmao:

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Thank you, Mudra. I bookmarked The Art of Peace, and from short preview I did, it seems to me that this teaching has some touching points with Taoism, which is very close to my heart.

Artvison, thank you also. There are so many questions to be answered, as you properly posted them. I think it is wise for the technical issues to be resolved by the specialists, using their books, manuals etc.

As for my biggest interest, I started to work on “ideology” and “political system” stuff for the communities. When I have some draft, you will know it.

Respect

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Dears,

Thank you for the interest and will of contribution to this life & death thread. This shows a deep desire in our souls for something better for people, for us in tha last instance.

This work is immense judging by the importance and by the knowledge must be shared and disseminated between us.

I have a practical experience of disseminating data and information between people, which NOT NECESSARY are of technical background, or not expressly technical.

Any person with reason and some life experience, can understand, handle and can bring their contribution to the common welfare, so here I more towards to work all to all the problems, at least be familiarized, while the trained experts will work more towards details and internal wheelings and dealings of systems, but overall all the people should have a global vision about everything... and who knows, maybe someone "non-expert" will come with a great idea which save trouble and time.

So, the idea is about having between us a common creative platform, which is not technical or technology dependent, we can make it also no be language dependent we can exchange within our group the creative ideas, suggestions, solution, being a fun in the same time; this idea of collaboration is based on two things:

1. The way our brain rteally works, it can gather information, store and process
2. How the computer is not helping the creativity process, but is an assumed bad, because of easiness of transfer and storage of data and ideas in digital format

So, for start, there was one smart person that observed that the humans are very bored when they have to learn and process lists and outlining; he deeply studied the problem and discovered that the brain function different as that was assumed it function. So, our brain functioning is based on images (remember that saying that 1 picture value more than 1000 words?); the central places in those images are the most important thing we are thinking at and from it radiate (RADIANT) subsections, like rays coming from the sun.
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_2...85110J8Keb.jpg

Each these rays then are divided in sub-subsection. You can visualize something like a central processor where are gathering many independent trunks of wires, each trunk is constituted by independent cables, each cable is made of wires and so on.

By analizyng this specific picture we can see the Big Picture, as well the details, in same shot, we do not need to turn page, to scroll and always we have all the information in front of our eyes. By further researches it has been observed that everything in nature is based on this make-up. From sun there getting out the rays, each rays is made from fascicles, each fascicle is composed from photons, etc.

The same is God, from which is radiate the wellness, the goodness, the life. You can observe in a leaf, if you look into the light, that are lots of nervure that emanate from the stalk.

http://ntsavanna.com/wp-content/uplo...-serrate-1.jpg

These way of thinking and representing information, in a easy to grasp form for our brain, has been called MindMapping and has been developed by Tony Buzan.

I will not go in depth in this methods, suffice to say that will be very easy to visualize, understand and looks similar with scribbles and drawing of young children (which proves that what people learn in school is not necessarily good, but sometime could be bad! :eek:)

Here is an example of mind map:

http://techknowtools.files.wordpress.../mindmap_2.jpg

In center is the main subject. Each line is a sub-domain (we prefer to put only suggestive words - not propositions), as we get deeper and deeper level we detail more and more. The advantage is that is easy to keep an eye over all the information, is easy grasping, and with help of colors, forms and scribbles will remain more time vivid in our memory. Not only that, but if you want add something, you just draw another branch in the correct place. When you make list you should re-do it from beginning, right?

They use this method for advanced projects at NASA, Boeing, etc for Project Management, brainstorming and analyzing of extremely advanced systems. This is a method they said they used to coordinate the immense effort or re-satrting all the municipal services and systems in New York after 911.

So, along with that method, we need a software platform (but the best creative results are with a piece of paper, sharp colored pencils, rubber and a cup of coffee!). We need though the software to be able collaborate between different computers. Some use Windows, other Linux and others use Mac OS. So the file we are posting on internet, we can post as PDF or imagine, but someone interested cannot add, or modify easily. Here come into picture, the software I talk about.

It is FREE and is a collaborative software developed to collaborate between academic media, students, professors, engineers etc. Is easy to learn and intuitive and have so many feature that is unbelievable.

If enough people are here are interested by this method, I can indicate the links of this software and can create and post the initial structure, as a start poin which we can, flesh it out, every member, according with his ideas, experience, knowledge, not necessarily should be an expert in that domain. Really I do not want to intrude or monopolize the discussion, but we need a kick start and quickly because we are in the 11 hours. Please excuse me, I'm not that handy with all the tricks and features it may offer this forum platform because this is my first and only forum I post and participate in my life. And not because I'm someone coming from a cave or never saw a computer in his life, nor I'm so young (ouch!!! :nono:) but because I never have an such vital interest as from this outstanding gathering of exceptional, smart and sensible people present on this forum, debating such extraordinary ideas and concept :cheerful_h4h:

So if you are interested I can post the links and afterwards I can put the draft of the Retreat Organization in that specific form and everybody can flesh it, can add or modify according with his wish.

Awaiting your opinion!
The software is easy handling, I know, also me, I'm not quite willing learn much new stuff! :thumb_yello:

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Artvision .. Outstanding !
Looks really good. Please go ahead and make it happen :)
Constructive ideas can only lead to constructive outcome.

Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

I see nobody is answering, maybe I was not very clear. I feel obliged to answer a few pertinent possible questions!


Q: Why we use new softwares? Couldn't we use the old plain text, with adding graphics, schematics, etc?[/COLOR]

A: Yes, we could, but it we very awkward to followup such amount of information as request by this subject. If we want that amount of info, into a normal list form, maybe will fill a booklet. Is everybody happy to read a booklet about something he/she do not understand yet what will be benefits from it? probably NO. Do we have much gain, by posting immense list, just scrolling them from one side to another, in between we forget about we were reading? probably not.

Q: Why are you proposing this software, in the first place? Are you some affiliations or some gains from leading us to use this software?

A: First of all, this is a FREE software, no strings attached. I have no affiliations or relations with these guys, I just tried to use a common multi-OS platform for sharing visual information with you. Will be able to share and use same information but handled on Windows, Linux and Mac's. Also seems a well featured software and I'm new to it as some of you, because I used before commercial software which will create a barrier between us.

Q: Second, why we need this new software, why should we bother install in our systems, no to mention the hassle that we have to learn new things?


A: Already described the concept "1 picture equal 1000 words" and you can use this software for myriads of purposes:

1. Put most valuable information in a brain visual attractive form (MindMaps)
2. You can see very easily what's missing, you can add easily what need more
3. You can use for brainstorming, just pot in the middle the main ideea and began to draw rays, naming it accordingly. Then go deeper, further and further.
4. Easy to present to others, no need big preparation or advanced knowledge; very fit for our purpose: a gathering of people from all backgrounds with different knowledge and skills, without being tied in a similar culture, language nor continent
5. You can make your check list for shopping, for scheduling events,
6. Could be use to Project management (I use mostly for that)
7. Could be used to analyze and solving a problem
8. You can use, for example when traveling make you a checklist, with all the things necessary, etc
9. We can do nice presentations, not only in a linear form as PowerPoint, meaning I 'm not forced go page 1, then 2, and so on, but can choos a path we want to discuss, etc. It is very advanced and very useful

Q: Ok I downloaded the software, installed but seemed pretty complicated, right?

A: I will answer you, maybe same seemed Microsoft Office at first encounter, but we were bypassing that problem, right? Because we human, are intended to solve problems, so this should not be a show stopper for us. If we are not able to use a software which is in the last instance, a mere TOOL, how we will be able solve such complex problems in front of us? I'm also much novice in this software, but before used similar software, but for our initial use, we need just be able to browsing, zoom in/out, and add/delete a branch, or write a text or something. THE MAIN IMPORTANT THING, is not the software, BUT WHAT WE PUT IN (you know that saying for computer systems: garbage in, garbage out)
etc.

Hope that I answered some worries and question.

So, here it is the Tufts University (Medford, Massachusetts, US) developed software, called:
VUE - Visual Understanding Environment

The Visual Understanding Environment (VUE) is an Open Source project based at Tufts University. The VUE project is focused on creating flexible tools for managing and integrating digital resources in support of teaching, learning and research. VUE provides a flexible visual environment for structuring, presenting, and sharing digital information.

http://vue.tufts.edu/index.cfm

To download software:
http://vue.tufts.edu/download/index.cfm?fromvue=1

Examples:
http://vueproject.blogspot.com/

Presentation Video:
http://vue.tufts.edu/screencast/QT_hiRes.cfm

SO, if you are interested, you have installed the software, I'm quite ready to delivery a frame (quite complex if I put it in a linear, list form). On this form, everybody could manipulate, modify, add, delete whatever thinks is necessary and he can post his idea on forum.

We then indeed exchange our ideas and we will talk right to the point, not just babbling around and never remains a thing, nor getting something to materialize. Awaiting your suggestion, opinions and questions.

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Sorry Mudra, I was in the editing window, so I didn't see your post.
I have some questions, maybe someone will enlighten me:

1. Where and how to add a larger file than the forum admitted rule?
2. How can I add files that are not of a standard type?

Should I use the Megauploads and then point a link?

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

ISSUE: I cannot post larger file than 65KB and of non regular type file_name.vue, with "VUE"extension

I managed to create an file share site on internet:

http://artvision.9f.com/

There is just an EXAMPLE FILE on PDF form (Adobe Acrobat or Acrobat Reader) and VUE form, for VUE software I'm recommending!

I need to have your feedback! In the meantime I'm working to the RadiantZone backbone.

Waiting you guys!

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Northern Boy I do agree with you we do not own Gaia and are basically citizens of the world.
Thank you for reminding us.
Working in the direction of regaining that universal citizenship needs transitory steps to be taken.
Communities emerging aiming at self sustainance , growing organic food in harmony and respect of the environment, and nurturing human rights and values is one of them.
One does 'nt need a crystal ball to extrapolate where our world is going if it goes on in the same direction as it is now heading.
So a change has to take place .
We can be the change we want to see .
Some have already dared to step outside the routine we all share and prooved that we can do better.
Until one day through the good will of all we will be One family again .

Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/p...pictureid=2275

Native American Indian Traditional Code of Ethics

1)Each morning upon rising, and each evening before sleeping, give thanks for the life within you and for all life, for the good things the Creator has given you and for the opportunity to grow a little more each day. Consider your thoughts and actions of the past day and seek for the courage and strengthto be a better person. Seek for the things that will benefit others (everyone).

2)Respect. Respect means "To feel or show honor or esteem for someone or something; to consider the well being of, or to treat someone or somethin with deference or courtesy". Showing respect is a basic law of life.

a. Treat every person from the tiniest child to the oldest elder with respect at all times.

b. Special respect should be given to Elders, Parents, Teachers, and Community Leaders.

c. No person should be made to feel "put down" by you; avoid hurting other hearts as you would avoid a deadly poison.

d. Touch nothing that belongs to someone else (especially Sacred Objects) without permission, or an understanding between you.

e. Respect the privacy of every person, never intrude on a person's quiet moment or personal space.

f. Never walk between people that are conversing.

g. Never interrupt people who are conversing.

h. Speak in a soft voice, especially when you are in the presence of Elders, strangers or others to whom special respect is due.

i. Do not speak unless invited to do so at gatherings where Elders are present (except to ask what is expected of you, should you be in doubt).

j. Never speak about others in a negative way, whether they are present or not.

k. Treat the earth and all of her aspects as your mother. Show deep respect for the mineral world, the plant world, and the animal world. Do nothing to pollute our Mother, rise up with wisdom to defend her.

l. Show deep respect for the beliefs and religion of others.

m. Listen with courtesy to what others say, even if you feel that what they are saying is worthless. Listen with your heart.

n. Respect the wisdom of the people in council. Once you give an idea to a council meeting it no longer belongs to you. It belongs to the people. Respect demands that you listen intently to the ideas of others in council and that you do not insist that your idea prevail. Indeed you should freely support the ideas of others if they are true and good, even if those ideas ideas are quite different from the ones you have contributed. The clash of ideas brings forth the Spark of Truth.

3)Once a council has decided something in unity, respect demands that no one speak secretly against what has been decided. If the council has made an error, that error will become apparent to everyone in its own time.

4)Be truthful at all times, and under all conditions.

5)Always treat your guests with honor and consideration. Give of your best food, your best blankets, the best part of your house, and your best service to your guests.

6)The hurt of one is the hurt of all, the honor of one is the honor of all.

7)Receive strangers and outsiders with a loving heart and as members of the human family.

8)All the races and tribes in the world are like the different colored flowers of one meadow. All are beautiful. As children of the Creator they must all be respected.

9)To serve others, to be of some use to family, community, nation, and the world is one of the main purposes for which human beings have been created. Do not fill yourself with your own affairs and forget your most important talks. True happiness comes only to those who dedicate their lives to the service of others.

10)Observe moderation and balance in all things.

11)Know those things that lead to your well-being, and those things that lead to your destruction.

12)Listen to and follow the guidance given to your heart. Expect guidance to come in many forms; in prayer, in dreams, in times of quiet solitude, and in the words and deeds of wise Elders and friends.

These people have lived together in communities for centuries.
There is a lot I found to learn from their wisdom.

Feel the love

Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Mudra, excellent, this is very welcomed! Acctualy, I am exactly researching, among all, the Amerikan Indians way of life in purpose to establish the basic elements of some kind of organization for the communities. There are so much authentic nobility and wisdom in their way. They are great teachers.

Love and Respect

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Very profound! Pure to the basics of the soul!
here is the Native Indians Ethics code under visual form:

http://www.artvision.9f.com/Native_I...iansEthic.html

(just close the annoying advertise windows opening in the right side of the screen; there is a small close button in the right upper corner)

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Both links did'nt work Artvision :(

Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Sorry Mudra, I'm not much in making sites & stuff. Try the link I corrected upstairs and try to close that annoying advertise window is popping up in the right side!

I would highly appreciate to confirm if you can open now!

http://www.artvision.9f.com/Native_I...iansEthic.html

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

The draft is finished, is in visual form, OK, but the file is larger than 1 MB.
Here are attached some samples from it (samples limited to maximum admitted size, by the forum):


http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3...4e75f6e8ebb871

Please confirm people, you were able to download.

So, the point is to, analyze each point and go with solutions. I would appreciate if people willing give contribution, to install VUE and we would exchanged source file, rather than PDF.

Please look over it and let's start discussions. If people interested I may produce them in an linear form (a list) easy to disseminate on forum, as being just text.

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3...4e75f6e8ebb871

Please confirm people, you were able to download.

I took a quick look at it (I'm at work), and the code of ethics looks very good, well thought out. Is this based on your thoughts or actual native code of ethics, Artvision?

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

The Native American Indian's were amazing people it's such a crime that our ancestors killed them :thumbdown:

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

All this information and more can be found at this web page

http://www.sapphyr.net/natam/nacodeethics.htm

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Hi NorthernSantuary,

No is not mine, the Native Indians Ethic Codes were bring by Mudra, in a previous post (few posts upper than mine).
It is a very pure and untainted Ethics code, that would be a good guidance in behaving in an Radiant Zone, I mean I would be very pleased if people would treat me in that mode.

My only contribution was taking the information from linear, listing form and making as a MindMap, more easy for human brain to grasp it, make connections between words, join ideas in a more organic and fluid flow; easy for memorising, easy for brainstorming. There is the advantage of having the Big Picture and the smalles detail, in one shot, in front of you, no need scrolling.

I was just to make a point for the tool we may work together, if you guys agree.

So, work from yesterday and today I finalized that draft, called
RadiantZoneStructure.pdf, which is the backbone of the organisation of the Radiant Zone, in my opinion.

So, I a draft is just done, but I urge people install free software called VUE (for Win, Linux and Mac), as we can exchange ideas, we can add, delete and bring our directly contribution to this Radiant Zone Guidance. Could be used for lots of other data representing purposes, such Project Management, Brain Storming, Problem Solving, etc

We can play with it in a graphical format and when we consider is finished and is OK, we can then transform in linear form, such an outline or a list.
Seems that besides Mudra and you, nobody gave any feedback.

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Northern Boy this is the site I found it myself.
I omitted to give the link.
Thank you:thumb_yello:

Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

All fine now Artvision.
This gives a good overview indeed !
Thank you :)

Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

As an additionnal thought thinking that one owns a land is an illusion. Governments are just letting you borrow a land they consider their own property and tax you for it .
This being what it is for the time being it's not so much the fact that one " owns " a land that is important but rather what one does with this piece of land and how one lives on it. .Are we preserving the land and it's sacredness or are we merely utilizing it without soul and thought. Are we caring for our fellow beings and all life and living towards unity or are we just caring for ourselves in separateness.

Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Wise? If I remember correctly, he was told to stop the recruiting by a Mod.

I've read the Proposition thread and there were quite a few detractors. From what was posted by various folk, it made Ttc seem rather dodgy.

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Dears,

The idea about the Radiant Zones as I as se fit is like this.

Even from ancient times and according with the instinct of conservation, people tend to try to preserve their life, family and possessions against the threats of the nature, animals and other humans. This has been proven by the drawings from the prehistory in caves, etc. This is why the prehistoric man look after the better protection from caves, used the tools and weapons and invented fire, just to enumerate some. Then he gathered with others in flocks and formed tribes and communities, just for the sake of defending better.

So, when someone has the insights and informations that this and that will menace his life or his properties and if he has a grain of brains, he immediately start making plans to counter that. The permanent assessment of the potential threats make part of the survival of individuals and through that, the species overall.

So, we have been informed by several people. We have been warned by some imminent and possible threats. Nobody said 100% are real and will stroke exactly in that moment, etc. Everything is prone to a degree of uncertainty (also backed in physics, by Heisenberg principle) therefore nobody could tell something will happen and the exact timing with 100% certainty. But, an intelligent person, in the know, will be capable with the best of his capacities to protect his family and his welfare and his obliged to do so, in order be called a sentient and intelligent being, rather than a sheeple or a damned idiot.

Now I want to ask you, if the guys on the Thailand beaches seeing the water withdrawing from the shore and knowing that this would be producing by a large TSUNAMI is sucking water far away, wouldn't be able to run like hell and have a better probability of escaping alive? Wouldn't many Jews given attention and care about the first actions of Hitler when gaining his power and prepared the departure well before the SHTF, wouldn't many more escaped?

Like that, we have been warned by many people and of many perils. How much of these will be the tsunami or the devastating , draconic regime we do not know, but WE HAVE THE DUTY to gather together and use our brain, inform ourselves and put the foundation of some sort of protection for us.

Now, the problem is how many people are aware, how many think this is more important than the place he/she's going in vacation, or if they afford it, etc; is then their business and their thing.

We cannot drag by the force someone not letting go to the peril and die. Maximum what we can do is to say to him, HEY, TAKE CARE! IF YO GO THERE OR DO THIS or THAT YOU WILL DIE! So such, is his or her decision to do it or not do it, as all we were created by God with this degree of free will or liberty of decision.

Think that here is not my job , nor mission to drag somebody on their sleeve say, come with me, come on my land, there you would be safe. No, I cannot say that, because I haven't at the moment the financial power, to create the retreat even for me. But I can say, hey, look, I found an area, with so and so, characteristics and there are many pieces of land across, which could make a good opportunity to create a Radiant Zone for the people who are preoccupied, have the willing and have the material resources to do that. If you want you will come buy the additional land may be left, let's work together, will cost us less, we can do great things together. It would be as a sort of cooperative of like minded persons, which they are already aware of the need of Radiant zones. In case SHTF would be very good we have each other to rely on, if SHTF not happening, then good, we have a house in an extraordinary nice place and we are a bunch of friends there, so is noting lost nor waisted. And heck , we are furnished with 2 years provision of food. So what I'm saying here is about people they are searching others, like them and also have the material possibility to sustain such a plan.

We cannot come here and say, hey look I put at the stake my land, I will construct myself the retreat, who will want to come and join me, for free , etc, etc. No, myself I cannot say nor do such a thing, because I cannot, financially speaking and I think this issue is not correct. The maximum what we can do here is to make a theoretical foundation of the organization of such radiant Zone, let this forum be a place of contact, where people would met each other and if they like and they have the means, then they PRIVATELY and by NO COERCION will decide if they want to construct a retreat or not.

Also, if we want be sincere with ourselves and recognize the fact, that right now not many people are concerned about their safety and families at the point that would sell the house, liquidate their assets and then be able to construct and move in a retreat like that. No, many people lack that degree of determination and the wits for doing such thing. Also we should accept that, not all the persons will be saved when SHTF will coming (nobody guarantee the safety neither of the Radiant Zone dwellers even!), but for sure those who disregard the warnings, the gathered wisdom and the ahead preparation for such event, will be in more danger than those who take steps ahead for their safety.

If a bunch of people, which from early time, put their brains, work and money and construct a retreat like that, well ahead SHTF and moved there with like mind other people, etc and when SHTF and a lot of strained and crazed people envy them and want to take by force their place or their provisions, I think this is not right and if this will happened in my personal case, I would defend it with my life.

So, what I'm thinking we must to do here, like many of us said, is to create an theoretical foundation of a Radiant Zone. We, the people, which are preoccupied about these issues, will be gathering together on this forum and we will agree to some document which will concentrate a common wisdom, based on many people experiences and ideas. Of course, nobody passed through what is supposed to come, but some of us maybe passed in life through very dangerous or perilous experiences that would be great to share with others.

But, judging by the small count of replies here, I'm wondering if the people consider this a pertinent idea, are convinced that SHTF will soon come and are decided and dedicated to such survival plan for them and their families.

For many, I think, is just a convenient way of killing some time. Maybe, most of the people are not really willing to leave their house just based on some mere suppositions. Others are not willing to invest money in such an enterprise, better think do other issues with it. And I think that concerned persons, with brains and possibilities they already have such thing. Remained just people which maybe are not so hardly convinced of urge of this retreat, or persons which never gave a serious thought or people who cannot afford such investment at the moment.

Anyway, the clock is ticking, force vaccination is around corner, Codex Alimentarius will strike after, internet freedom we can kiss good bye, all culminating with Oct-2011; these with or without our preparation.

So, will we doing this theoretical foundation or not, people?

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Are you saying this is your idea..your vision as you see fit about the Radiant Zones here? I highlighted it in green.

So...are you saying all of this pertinent and important information is all theoretical, hypothetical and speculative?

Or do you mean building the Radiant Zone is based on theoretical, hypothetical and speculative information?

Perhaps you are saying the tenets/foundation/base of what the Radiant Zone will be establish on is just a result of theory?

I highlighted the last sentence in green for reference.

The rest of what you've said sounds a lot like Darwinism to me. The survival of the fittest..the strong over the weak. Sift through the wheat and throw out the chaff.

Oh yeah, people will become crazy and envious because there's a bunch of people living in the Radiant Zone.

Fear mongering? Hysteria? I don't know. You tell me.


Why not just post the relevant information out there without ones own personal spin on it? Why not just let people read it and let them make their own informed judgement on what needs to be done for them?

Playing Devil's Advocate Winter Wolf

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

I have for some time been looking at models of community living which fit with my vision of what future enlightened/spiritual society will be. To me it cannot be anything like what we have had in our recent past! I am also loath to have it all written down like laws and statutes to be adhered to and enforced!! This may sound to be naive and idealistic to not have written rules and laws but its in line with how I have worked in the last few years.

Phtha's thread of the interview with Sheldon Nidle backed up my ideas. I will attempt to outline some of them and welcome feedback. Up to this point I have only implemented what I call this new way of working in the theatre (producing/directing) and in staging a horse event/parade/celebration day. I dont think my ideas are new, I think they are being applied in many areas. I applied them instinctively to something I'd never done before.

In both cases I was a somewhat reluctant leader/boss and extremely nervous about the position I was put in and my abilities. First of all I developed and held in my mind the vision of an excellent show/event. I shared that vision with all the people involved. I had their attention as they had to share the vision or it would not work. With the theatre I told them I did not want any talking behind my back. I wanted all critisizm to be addressed to me plus all ideas that the cast had. I received little or no critisism as all ideas were listened to and tried out to see if they worked!

Everyones creativity went into our show, and the level of energy, enthusasim and excellence surpassed all that I could have hoped for. I had the final say but all were in accord and all contributed their special talents.

This way of working is sort of in line with what Sheldon Nidle spoke about. That in any community there is leader or a panel of leaders. (Im not sure whether one or a panel is best) The leader or leaders have to be wise and experienced( To be in touch and guided by their Inner Self.) This person or persons hold the vision for the community and share it with all.

Everyone has their special gifts and talents that is unique to them. When any skill or talent is needed at any one time that person becomes the leader, and the rest follow and learn. When that particular activity is completed and something else is needed then the person best suited for the task steps forward and takes on the leader role. So, you see, everyone becomes a leader at some time and everyone is also a follower at other times.

As I said first off this is something formed and also still forming. The Indian guidelines and rules seem to be quite in line with how I see a successful community organisation. I think these ideas are naturally in place now at the higher levels of consciousness. Its just a matter of listening in and downloading them to our brains.

Love and Light

Carmen

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Winterwolf, please give us some of your ideas so we have some idea of where you stand on the subject.

Cheers

Carmen

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Carmen your words

are full of your truth

and you are im sure your going to attract

your tribe ....without to much effort

and they will be all

chiefs.... and no indians

i mean this resectfully

i mean by this .. that

a circle of chiefs

do not need A ..chief.....

in service to the one rhythmmm ..

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

I want to thank everyone for this thread, it is fascinating.

I want to share my vision of the future.

I see governance in the golden age of the future is going to be somewhat simpler than lists of organizational principles or rules. I have seen some examples of good rules in this thread but I maintain they are not really necessary. I think people know what is right, especially the sorts of people who will "inherit the Earth", if you know what I mean.

Free people's main aim in life will be that their neighbours fare well and prosper. These people will be almost completely "service to others oriented", and thus form a society that will not require "rules.

I have seen a quote purportedly from a high being which reads some-thing like "Take your brothers need as a measure for your action" - how much simpler can it be?

Yes it is anarchy! Non-government is basically what I am talking about, but it is a special kind of anarchy - pure, illuminated and tempered by the fact that its constituents are peaceful, harmonious and share love for all.

Leaders will be temporary, instinctively elected for a set purpose simply for organizational efficiency and not personal aggrandizement or for any power or lifestyles advantages. The processes surrounding this will be transparent and honest. A group would say let's build this house/barn here and the team would form and organize based on the group consensus and need of the moment. Somewhat Amish in style but with less reliance on old traditions and customs, but more on an instinctive and shared intuitive knowledge of the needs of the moment.

I have complete faith in the power of humanity to bring about such perfection on Earth and we here are a small part of that process.

A..

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

I welcome everyone on this thread WinterWolf
True discernement comes from pursuing unity in our interchanges with each other not from reacting on content.


Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Dear WinterWolf,

Thank you for your feedback! :thumb_yello:I put your remarks with lime green!


Are you saying this is your idea..your vision as you see fit about the Radiant Zones here? I highlighted it in green.

So...are you saying all of this pertinent and important information is all theoretical, hypothetical and speculative?

Or do you mean building the Radiant Zone is based on theoretical, hypothetical and speculative information?

Perhaps you are saying the tenets/foundation/base of what the Radiant Zone will be establish on is just a result of theory?

I highlighted the last sentence in green for reference.



Yes, unfortunately is true. All the information we have is just speculative, theoretical. We can split in two groups:
- the perils/menaces/dangers
- the organisation of a retreat to cope with a wide range of these threats

I don't know anybody put a paper with a signature and stamp, for example when the fiat currency is crashing, or when they will attack Iran or something, etc

For the construction of houses, many can give advices, but I do not know people actually built with that purpose as their target. At least I did see NorthenSantuary and TtC and because of that their experience is precious, let's hope they are willing to share with us.:original:


The rest of what you've said sounds a lot like Darwinism to me. The survival of the fittest..the strong over the weak. Sift through the wheat and throw out the chaff.

Oh yeah, people will become crazy and envious because there's a bunch of people living in the Radiant Zone.


I do not want to seem like Darwinism, if that you understand I'm sorry. Whatever I'm saying is that first of all we should be realistically. We ARE LIVING NOW, in this world, if we want accomplish something we need to use the TOOLS, as primitive as they are, with the single purpose, to put in practice the truth.
I want to make a clear statement, that in order build something, you need money, material resources. If you can bypass that, I would be happy to hear. Now, what I'm stating, that this issue shouldn't be a hindrance for us, but also a wise man cannot exclude. We live in this world and if tomorrow my money cache is ending, nobody will feed me, just for the sake of mine. This for sure, or this is my petty experience till now.

If we are coming with extraordinary grand ideas, but which are not fesable, this is not may style. I hate the theoretically without practice, from my early faculty years, when teacher only balking but never show us something real. I think the same are appreciating many people of this forum.

Another thing that I appreciate is the TRUTH. Truth towards yourself and to the others. Without this basis, I consider nothing of value can be built!

And this thing is telling me, that I cannot help all the world so I have to refrain to directly help to my family or a hand of people because my resource are limited, but I try to be as much as help I can to other people as well. This is I wrote about this forum and was my main reason for being here.This are the issues that I stated so many times, and probably displeased you in such manner that to categorize my vision, being pure darwinism or materialism.

Even the idea of saving ALL PEOPLE is grandiose, for sure is not feasible when it come the implementation phase; look I do not want to stuck to that implementation phase. I do not want to basculate to the other extreme:

Just at grand ideas and nothing practically.

If I need bricks, and tile and concrete, I need to have money to buy, or at least I should offer something of value for it, isn't it? If this sound Darwinistically for you I'm sorry, for me is just pragmatism. Why pragmatism, because I really want built something, not just showing grandiose, inapplicable ideas on forums.


Fear mongering? Hysteria? I don't know. You tell me.


Look WinterWolf, how many times I stated in may posts, here in this thread, that we will take measures and provisions JUST IN CASE. We cannot do more, I don't have an insider in Higher Upper circles to tell me such: "look in 3 day we will do this an that" Really this approach of us being given exact dates and be briefed exactly what happened and why and what to do, seem childlish for me, and more toward entitlement attitude, which have been seeded by elites to create a large and dependable social strata. So, I don't have friends in such higher places; If I would be in the situation of that level of information, probably I wouldn't be here, in the first place.
As many people, I search here, in Avalon, with seemed most feet-on-the-ground, serious and credible informative forum. Also the way Kerry and Bill taken interviews, while filtering what they aren't totally convinced of information genuine , is a good place for guidance and getting insights about WHAT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO HAPPEN. I would thank them and all the people here, for those informations, because selfishly brought their knowledge and shared with us.

Maybe Noah could have been cataloged as hysterical and fear mongering because he had been building his Ark? Probable, their neighbours same said about him at that times. Are we fear mongering and hysterical if we follow the guidance from God?

prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished. [Proverbs 27:12]

I don't think so. There is not about the survival of the fittest, rather is the POSSIBLE SURVIVAL of those which are not discrediting and mocking the huge amount of warning evidence, is trying to take precautionary measures and waste their time, energy and resources for this purpose.

Just think about the Noah mockers? Do people know in these days, even their names? Do you think that Noah, wouldn't care for them if they would of taken his advice and not ridiculed him in place? Could we consider him a darwinist? Even to Noah, God Himself didn't tell exactly when the flood will come, just told him to construct his Ark, and by vision send Noah tha Ark's plans.

Everybody will have what will search after:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [Matthew 7:7]

So, according with that, God assures us that we will get what we ask or we are trying to accomplish by our searches and our work. As well as those who are not search for safety, survival and protection while are mocking others.

I just have the vision of the waves slowly rising the Noah Ark and all the mockers with utmost fear in them, trying to hang themselves in a desperate move to floating Ark and I can feel the bitterness and regrets in the Noah heart that he cannot save them. As you know, nothing new under the sun, so it happened then, same will come soon, regardless which terms are you categorize that. I would categorize as REALISM PRAGMATISM, AND BE TRUTHFUL TO YOURSELF. Who say different, just trying to look nice in from of other people, couldn't be a truthful person, because when the line is draw, they cannot save everybody as they previously stated, in their desire to make better appeal to people, than one which stated from the very begining he cannot help just a handful of people.


Why not just post the relevant information out there without ones own personal spin on it? Why not just let people read it and let them make their own informed judgement on what needs to be done for them?

I'm agreeing with you, but we need to have an backbone, and structure which people would give their thought, ideas and suggestion. Without that order will be a total chaos and the purpose will be not serve.

According with me (again, I cannot know thinking of others) the purpose shoud be:
Creation of a set of directive lines, suggestions, guidance, that if sombedy will want, sometime to make a retreat for him and his friends, to be able to do ASAP, to have a place where to start. We should ilustrate there al the major thing should be considered along with suggestion or solution we consider best. A START-UP DCUMENT, if somoane is in a hurry and want start something like a Radiant Zone

This will contain the domains, best suggestion to handle, cods of conduct, procedures, what to do if, etc, etc. All that information should be gathered form myriads of people and be put in writing. We shoud state the reason why, we suggest this or that and some practica implementation.

For gathering this vast domain and huge amount data and to process and then come with a compilation which should be agreed by majority of the forum, we wil need an OUTLINE

That is I tried to do, in that document here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3...4e75f6e8ebb871

A sketch for an OUTLINER, where the people to give their contribution.
I'm not say is exhaustive and complete, far frm me this thought, but at least this is my idea we should proceed to cove these issues. Of, course as many people in the know, get involved, the Outliner will improve, I'm positive.

Right now is a point of start, because if we want to accomplish something we need some order in our thoughts and ideas.

After the Outliner is created, then we start to fill it with info from people. When is ready, discussed and approve, we can publish as a guide for a Radiant Zone.

Nobody has to abide it, just an initial guidance. But if someone will follow it, will be on the safe side. Here will come into play our collective wise.


As a summary Radiant Zone Guide issuing:

1. Presenting the main chapters of what should be in our Radiant Zone Guide (suggested by me in the pdf linked)
2. people agree with the OUTLINER (add or delete, or modify)
3. After an outliner is approved, we start to collect and gather information
4. After the collection is done, in the meantime people can give they approval or disapproval for that thing, advise, guidance, etc we will FINALISE a RADIANT ZONE GUIDE draft. Will be there for further comments/improvements
5. After a time we will be considering as final form and anybody can use it, as he thinks as is good


So, we will just create this guide, we are not trying to recruit fellow dwellers, or persons, nor sell or commercialize land, radiant living places to live or that kind of issues. I think for that level of pragmatism, is beyond the purpose of this forum and our presence here. This is not my intent and personally, I wouldn't look appreciative to such kind of commercial attitude.

Though nobody is against taht durig this process, people get knowing better each other and may think to joint together enterprise on their on and private affair, out of the forum.


Pleas free to comment, Winterwolf and folks.:welcomeani:

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Friends,
Here is my humbly thinking about how the radiant zone/community should be built. I am intentionally not extensive with the explications, but I am ready to explain to anybody who is not clear with something written here.
I firmly believe that life in the group is not possible without some rules, written or spoken. Higher densities also have rules. Universe is build upon rules…The point is to keep our rules as much as possible close to the Universe’s rules, which, in my opinion, is a state of governing of the high conscious and free will, and maximally relativisation of the leadership and ownership – two main ego-manifestations in this world. Because of that I tried to mix some elements of different systems. If we prevail ego in the relations inside the community – it will be successful.
What is most important for me is that this kind of organization should be temporary, until coming of what we are all expecting, but we don’t know how it will look.
I am not pretending that this is the best model, far from it, it is just a draft, my actual thinking and contributing. Also, there are other topics that should be discussed, but in some other occasion.

Love and Respect



RADIANT ZONE COMMUNITY (TRANSITIONAL MODEL)


BASIC VALUES: Conscious, Love, Peace, Freedom, Truth, Justice, Service to others, Respect, Nature, Beauty, Spiritual growth/Enlightenment.

CRITERION FOR THE VALUES: Universal positive human legacy. Knowledge. Wisdom. Collective intuition.

AUTHORITY: Total democracy mixed with Native American Indians way and elements of anarchy. For all of the issues of importance for the community, all of the members are voting. One member one vote. There must be minimum 2/3 majority for every issue to pass. If there is no solution with 2/3 majority voting after 2 voting circles, then 3-9 elders members (Council of Elders) of the community will take the decision. Council of Elders is also a coordinative body for the voting process. Everyone has the right to propose voting issue. Every proposal will be voted.

OWNERSHIP: Community belongs to all of its members equally. Everyone participate with what he/her has. Investors own their buildings. They have no other special rights above the rest of the members. Food and water are collective own. Everyone has right on individual possession of cloth and elementary stuff.

MEMBERSHIP: New members are welcomed. Before getting full membership, they should pass the test period.

STRUCTURE: Community has society branches (education, healthcare, technology etc.) depending by the capacity of the membership. All of the branches are based upon the BASIC VALUES, specially the education. Branches are evolving in accordance with the nature environment.

CONTRIBUTION: Everyone is contributing (labor, security, education etc.) according to his/her abilities and his/her conscious. If somebody obviously abuse the confidence, he/her will be (first) warn by the Council of Elders, and if continue will be voted to leave the community.

DEFENSE&SECURITY: Everyone is included into the defense of the community, according to the occasion. Defense matter is guided by the person who is most experienced and specialized about the matter. He is woted for this position after the proposal of the Council of Elders, and his leading position is valid only when defense is required.

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Anchor and Carmen ,

I can only hold in respect your vision of the golden future as well as your faith in humanity and share it with you.
Given consistent love things can only blossom.
We only have to be patient enough and apply our good will to allow this to happen.

Artvision and Oliver

I agree some guide lines should be discussed and establised collectively while undergoing transition .
Rules or codes should act as a map or compass to remind us gently of our inner nature which is love and service to all.

loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

I am interested to know this as well. Please share your own views with us .

Loving kindness
mudra

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

Why not ask some one who is familiar about this community you are trying to set up . Ask Day for his input I notice he is staying out of this thread maybe he could enlighten you with what he knows

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?
 

This is the purpose of this thread Northern Boy : that all that have experience with communities or want to set one up come and gather here to share their ideas and exchange their knowledge and wisdom.
Day is welcome to the thread . I'll inform her that it exists.

Loving kindness
mudra