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Rulers of the World

 Click here for the PDF version (U.S. Format) of this interview (29 pages)

 Click here for the PDF version (A4 Format) of this interview (28 pages)

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January 1, 2011

Bill Ryan (BR): In the summer of 2010, I was approached by a very unusual man. The story of that contact is described by him in this interview. I’ve called him ‘Charles.’

He spent many years working for the elite group that considers it their responsibility to run the planet. He’s not an academic, an historian or a scientist, but he wanted to communicate some important information about the world view and philosophy of this group, from their point of view. What they’re trying to achieve, why and how. He and I have established a friendship based on mutual respect. In this interview, Charles explains his own agenda. What he wants to see, is what he calls ‘a fair contest.’

There’s a great deal of material that was not covered in this interview. It is, to some degree, the start of a dialogue. The group of 33 that Charles works with is indirectly using this opportunity to communicate. I’ve reported this communication as accurately as possible. As is normal journalistic practice, some of the information needs to be off-record at this stage. As you watch this interview, you will see that there are a great many unanswered questions. I would like there to be a further interview, but any decision about this is not mine to make.

For me, the second half of 2010 has been an interesting time. It’s culminated in this opportunity to communicate indirectly, through this video and through Charles himself, with the group of people who are running the planet. And this what I’d like to take this opportunity to say: I understand the history and context that Charles has explained, some of which is in this interview, but there is another way.

If you are to be the true leaders of the planet, you can be the captains of Spaceship Earth with the responsibility for the entire human family. There can be a massive cleanup operation. You know that the technology exists. Between us all, this can be done. Clean water, clean air, clean oceans, free energy, abundant wildlife, health and education for every human being. Planet Earth could be a paradise planet, a model for this sector of the galaxy.

The human race is a massive, long-term experiment. This information, confirmed by yourselves via Charles, will not be new to many of those watching this video. Charles has explained that the extraterrestrial race who initiated this project are letting everything unfold with a philosophy of non-interference. It’s arguable that the optimum conclusion for all – an outcome that would delight those whose project this is – would be for the human race to take responsibility for itself and show just what they can do.

Your legacy to remain for time immemorial, here and elsewhere, could be:

‘We cleaned up the mess. We inspired and funded the world’s brightest and best from every nation to work together to solve the problems. We fully restored this beautiful, magnificent jewel of this solar system. Look what we did when the entire human family organized, focused and under inspired leadership, worked together to show just what could be done.’

*****************

So this is Bill Ryan from Project Avalon and it is Saturday the 18th of December, 2010. And this is one of the more interesting interviews that I’ve ever had the privilege of conducting. With me is a man who I’ve given the pseudonym ‘Charles.’ And, as the name suggests, he’s very English, and for reasons that will become apparent, as you start to watch this video, he has graciously declined from being filmed with his face on camera. You will hear his voice, which will be unedited and unfiltered, and what Charles has to tell us on-record may be one of the more important stories that you will have heard for quite a long time. And... this is very unrehearsed, as they all are – and... [the] first thing I want to do, Charles, is to thank you. And I really mean that, [be]cause I didn’t know this was going to happen until it actually happened. And – as an introduction to our viewers here who are only seeing the back of your head – what are you willing to say about who you are, the nature of how we connected with each other and the nature of your work?

Charles (C): Well, if you want to start with who I am, you need start quite early on, haven’t you?

BR: Okay.

C: Because, otherwise, it doesn’t make sense how someone from Hackney gets to where he is.

BR: And for the benefit for the Americans, where is Hackney?

C: Basically, if you’re a Cockney, you’re born within the sound of Bow Bells, and I was born in Bow Mother’s Home – so I’m a Cockney, you see, North, well, East London, and that’s what I am, a Cockney. But I’m from a very working-class family. But I haven’t ended up in a working-class situation, through my own determination. And some would object to the kind of determination I’ve used. And they’d be quite right. So I didn’t go through [the] usual ‘avenues,’ shall we say? But in early life I started as a football hooligan and I was then recruited by a fascist organization. I realized as my education grew – your education grows in life – and as I got older and wiser I realized that I was actually more useful to them than they were to me.

BR: And you were being watched this whole time, weren’t you?

C: Yeah. I was, yeah. Right from a very early age. And I wasn’t aware of that. I wasn’t aware of that until many, many years later. [I remember that] you’ve had other people you’ve spoken to [who are] in the same situation.

BR: Yup.

C: And I wasn’t aware of it. It was quite... Well, it wasn’t a shock to find out, actually, because I always knew that there was something odd about me. And you hear that a lot, you hear a lot, I’m saying it with realism. There really was something odd about me. I think when you’ve met me...

BR: Mm-hm.

C: What do you think?

BR: I think there’s something very odd about you. [laughs]

C: Okay. So...

BR: I say that as a joke.

C: Yeah, yeah.

BR: Let me... ‘Odd’ sounds disparaging.

C: Okay.

BR: Let us say, ‘unusual’ or even ‘special.’ Okay, would that be fair words to use?

C: [hesitantly] Yeah, I’m not really into blowing my own trumpet, so to speak? ‘Odd’ seems happy to me. My vocabulary isn’t as good as yours, so... I’m not formally educated.

BR: That’s not a crime, at all, and it’s not your fault.

C: But I’d play you chess.

BR: And you’d probably win.

C: I’d give you a run for your money.

BR: I bet you would! But you have talents and abilities and characteristics that are unusual.

C: Yeah.

BR: Would that be a way of describing it?

C: Yeah.

BR: Yes. Rather than say ‘odd.’

C: Yeah.

BR: Let’s say that you have... you have particular abilities that attracted the attention of some people who have reason to call upon those abilities later. Is that right?

C: I had natural abilities, and that doesn’t make me special. There are others like me, you got athletes etc., thinkers maybe, but yeah, I’m very quick in a very stressful situation. Not big at physical stature, but that doesn’t matter.

BR: And you haven’t been in the military, have you?

C: Never.

BR: But you’re the kind of person who the military would love to get their hands on and turn into one of the...

C: My natural father was very high up in the military.

BR: Okay. Mm-hm. But you’re probably the kind of person that the SAS would love to get their hands on.

C: I’m... They are physical soldiers.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: They wouldn’t have a chance against me because I would... they’d already be ill before they even met me.

BR: Right.

C: I would weaken them before I dealt with them.

BR: Right.

C: They’re playing a completely different game. It’s like we’re in a knife fight, a knife to gun fight...

BR: Yeah.

C: They’re not gonna win.

BR: Yeah. It’s all over before they turn up, is what you’re saying.

C: Yeah, yeah. I would already have done my homework long before that.

BR: Okay. So, we’re talking about because... what I was trying to do is to paint a picture of your characteristics, and one of the ways to describe your role is a kind of quasi-military role.

C: Fair to say.

BR: Is there anything that you would like to continue saying about how you... Let’s say, what happened between those younger years, when you weren’t sure about what was going on in your own life, but you became increasingly aware that there was something going on around you, and other people seemed to know something about you that you didn’t. And then some time between then and now, all of that came into focus.

C: That’s right. Well, where do you want to start? How far do you want to go back?

BR: We’ve got all the time in the world to... People watching this will be fascinated already.

C: So yeah. In England, in that point in time in England there was a... you had reform schools, they were commonly known as Borstals. I spent some time in those, in fact that’s where I got any education I did get. ‘Cause it was drummed into me, it was the only way that I would listen long enough to be taught to read and write, [because in?] ordinary school. But what was also figured out was, interesting or not, I never paid attention in school, and considering what I said to you earlier on when we were off-camera, about numbers, I did a Maths ‘O’ Level.

BR: Mmh.

C: And the reason I did a Maths ‘O’ Level is that I was in something... I was being segregated while they were figuring out what to do with me. So I was literally in a cell, in the school, most of the time, and they decided Mr. ... well, a teacher, that [was for] some reason interested in me – that becomes apparent at a later date why he was, and who he was – decided to sit [set?] a Maths ‘O’ Level for me, and I got 87%.

BR: [laughs]

C: So it wasn’t a fact that I couldn’t be educated, it was that I didn’t want to be educated.

BR: Right.

C: And I didn’t even really know, ‘cause sometimes it improved me, school [did], and at other times it didn’t. And obviously, now with hindsight, I know why. Because what you learn in school in complete rubbish.

BR: Sure.

C: Total rubbish.

BR: And I would agree with that.

C: Well, I think it’s pretty generally known. ‘We want you to think that way and that’s that.’ And I bash anything off like that, anything that I feel is constricting, or something’s trying to control me. Wooo, it[’ll] get a natural response from me, which is ‘No I don’t wanna do it.’

BR: Yeah.

C: Which can be detrimental to me at times, because it’s something I might need to know.

BR: The picture that you’re painting here, is of a kid who’s smart, who’s uncontrollable, who can handle himself in any situation whatsoever, who... and who’s been watched from a very early age, because of certain characteristics that he’s not aware that he’s got at this stage, and then, as I was saying, sometime between then and now, some time in those years, those ten, twenty years, then things did become clear for you. And you found yourself a niche, where you were able to do a job for some pretty important people, and you fitted the template that they were looking for to handle some problems really well. Is that a good description?

C: Yeah. It is, apart from the ‘find myself a niche.’ I didn’t find myself a niche. It was very apparent that that’s what [I] was being groomed for.

BR: Right. Can you describe how you were approached? How was it you...

C: Well I wasn’t actually approached.

BR: Okay.

C: I was in the right place. I was in that casino... I was seen in that casino, betting that kind of money.

BR: All right.

C: I was at that cocktail party. I... provided things for a party.

BR: So you’re actually rubbing shoulders with these guys without realizing it.

C: Yeah. Obviously there was... Because... I mean, the word ‘gangster’ is bandied around about, all over the place now, and that’s, that’s not what I was.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: I didn’t consider myself a gangster. I considered myself someone that does that sort of thing. Just like, a teacher teaches, or a soldier soldiers. I did bad things. And I didn’t look any further into it than that. I didn’t do any of those things. And in doing those things... in fact the first instance that I was asked to, by someone important, was to deal with a pedophile.

BR: O-kay.

C: So there’s some, there’d be people in your audience would be, would applaud that. It doesn’t mean [anything], it’s just another person as far as I’m concerned. It was [based at?] a nanny, and the nanny was... fiddling with things he shouldn’t have been fiddling with, and they wanted him dealt with. And that was first instance...

BR: Okay.

C: ...where I was really asked to do anything serious.

BR: And a euphemistic way of describing this is that you became very useful at ‘making problems go away.’

C: Yes.

BR: Is that a way to describe it?

C: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, yeah.

BR: Okay.

C: But, but, maybe you could go a little... you need to go back. It doesn’t even become a problem when I’m involved.

BR: Okay.

C: As soon as someone realizes that they may see a situation coming in a month’s time, that’s when I’m involved, and the situation never even arises.

BR: Right. To head the problems off before they become problems.

C: Yeah, yeah.

BR: Okay.

C: Because then you can... if you... the earlier you deal with a problem...

BR: Mm-hm.

C: ...the less forceful you have to be, and any force or any real major action will attract attention...

BR: Okay.

C: ...and you don’t want any attention. That’s the golden rule. No attention.

BR: Okay. Gotcha. So if you’re scrambling around, trying to put out a fire, then it means that you’ve missed something that you should have done earlier on.

C: Yeah. Someone walked in there with matches. Why did you let him?

BR: Right. So fast forward a few years to the point where you really began to knowingly rub shoulders with what some of the people watching this would call the ‘Elite.’

C: The minute you do a favor for one person...

BR: Mmh.

C: ...and it was gratis, favor, no money changed hands.

BR: Right.

C: As soon as you’re willing to play that game, you’ve already...

BR: Then you start getting referrals.

C: ...you still have, you’ve ended, yeah.

BR: You start getting referred, yeah.

C: You then enter into a contract.

BR: The guy says, ‘You got a problem? I can help you. A guy helped me last week. I think he’s good.’ And so on.

C: And he’ll keep his mouth shut. And he won’t do something stupid, like shoot someone.

BR: Yeah. Right. Okay.

C: And I learned early on, that the best way to deal with people is financially.

BR: Yes.

C: And in the most mundane ways.

BR: And you told me...

C: And that is part my character, the way I... I’m quite devious like that... and they love that.

BR: Yes. About a month or two ago, when we were talking, you told me – I think these are the words you said – you said that you skinned many cats perfectly legally, using totally legal means.

C: I would say 90 percent, literally 90 percent of the things I’ve done are completely legal.

BR: Yeah. Yup. Just ‘cause people leave vulnerabilities in their lives.

C: Well, everyone’s human. People take drugs, they like women that they shouldn’t like, when they’re married. If you have women at your disposal in that, who owe you favors...

BR: Mm-hm.

C: ...it’s very easy to ask them to do that.

BR: Mmh.

C: And we’re talking about people that don’t have the moral values, not that I... I’m not being detrimental to them in saying that, because I don’t have those either. In fact, right and wrong, as far as I’m concerned, don’t exist. They don’t exist in my world. It’s a just complete fabrication to make everybody feel guilty about what they’re doing. There is no right and wrong. It’s just what comes next.

BR: Mmh.

C: We try and look back on it and decide whether it was right or wrong. We don’t think like that. [It’s as] simple as that.

BR: Yeah. When you say ‘we’ don’t think like that, who’s ‘we’?

C: That’s a big question, isn’t it? Do you want to talk about... the end result of who I’m involved with, or do you want to talk about how I got there, because you’re going to work backwards? It doesn’t bother me, but...

BR: Well, there are various ways into this.

C: Okay.

BR: I mean, it’s a fascinating story, and there are lots of details that I’m hearing here for the first time.

C: Okay.

BR: Although actually we’ve talked for hours.

C: Hmm.

BR: And I’ve... been more than intrigued by this story that you have shared with me, because it gives an insight into how some things operate, that I never had before. This is one of the reasons why I am very grateful that you’re recounting this story for people to hear, because it’s going to be an eye-opener for a lot of people about the real world and the way that I hear you describing yourself is that you’ve got your feet planted in the real world, you deal with the real world, and that’s what you’re good at.

C: Yeah... definitely. I’m in the real world. Where you live... Well, not so much you...

BR: [laughs]

C: ...but where everyone else lives, it’s just a complete fabrication.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: And it really is. And do you they know, everyone knows. They just don’t want to look at it.

BR: Mmh.

C: They’d rather face the water and not look at what’s coming up from behind and just accept it when it hits them.

BR: Mmh.

C: Most people will keep their eyes on the water. They won’t turn around to see what’s going to happen.

BR: Yeah.

C: ‘Ignorance is bliss’ is what I’m saying.

BR: That’s something we can get onto later, which is something that I really want you to talk about. I’d love you to cover the intervening years...

C: Okay.

BR: ...very briefly, until we get to the point, and – this is just a little trailer of a bit to follow – actually when you first contacted me, because I was a problem that needed to be headed off...

C: That’s right. Yeah. You actually became a problem.

BR: I became a problem.

C: Yeah.

BR: And so, that’s how we made contact with each other, and I would like to say that we have become friends since then. I am certainly enjoying your company well enough to call you a friend. I haven’t played you snooker yet.

C: Oh.

BR: I don’t think I stand much of a chance. [laughs]

C: [laughs] We’ll see.

BR: But... between that point and the point that you’re talking about just now, when you’re starting to be recommended to people because you’re good at handling things quietly with... and efficiently and effectively.

C: With a minimum amount of fuss.

BR: With a minimum amount of fuss.

C: That’s the most important thing.

BR: Yeah. With none [nothing] to clean up, nothing to embarrass people, etc. etc.

C: For instance, I would, I had, plenty of people at my disposal to do things for me. And yet, none of them even knew what I was really involved in, and I would always deal with these situations myself, personally...

BR: Yes. Mm-hm.

C: ...without involving anyone else.

BR: Yeah.

C: That’s the kind of discretion that’s needed. And you got to understand, at that point... I didn’t have to. I could have easily pointed a finger [gotten someone else to do it].

BR: Mm-hm.

C: The way they would have dealt with it, it would have been ridiculous. And that’s the very reason that I was brought along like I was. I understood fuss was not needed.

BR: Yes, and you became sort of, in a weird kind of way, you became respected and trusted by them.

C: Yeah. I am trustworthy.

BR: Yeah.

C: If you ask me to do something, I will get it done.

BR: You will do it...

C: If I said I will, it will happen.

BR: Right.

C: I may say ‘no,’ but they will know, that if I said ‘yes,’ it will happen.

BR: Right.

C: If you want to call that ‘trust,’ well fine. I call it my word. Some people have asked me to do things for them, and I’m already working on them for someone else. Do they trust me? Am I trustworthy to them?

BR: Right. It’s all compartmentalized. Right.

C: Isn’t everything?

BR: Well, isn’t everything? [smiles]

C: Go to work, work on ICI, see if the guy [who works] at the money counter knows what the managing director’s thinking.

BR: Yeah, yeah. Sure. Okay. So, can you cover those intervening years? I mean, this is... a huge life story...

C: Yeah, this is the thing. You got to understand. In some weeks several things happened, and those weeks aren’t unusual. And the way you view time, I do not view time. For instance, you could ask me a day when something happened or what age I was, I have to really think, because it just doesn’t bother me. I don’t care how old I am. The length of time I’m on this planet, is the length of time I’m on this planet. I don’t care where we are in there, at any point.

BR: Yeah, I got you. Okay

C: So I don’t... because I don’t put those markers. It’s very hard for me when someone asks me a direct question from their world to give them an answer that is relevant for them in time, because I don’t look at it like that.

BR: I understand. Okay.

C: And nor do ‘they.’

BR: And that is interesting.

C: My life is sequential. Everything is sequential.

BR: Everything happens in sequence. Everything is sequence-driven.

C: Part of the fabrication is the calendar and the clock.

BR: Right. Yeah, yeah.

C: Scientists talk about time. They talk about time, but time’s only been around for how long? Did summer still come, winter still come, before the clock was invented? Of course it did. ‘Oh, winter’s late this year.’ I laugh at things like that, when I hear things like that, because winter’s not late. Just the cage you put it in isn’t working. Winter’s not late.

BR: I completely understand. What you’re saying is like a Buddhist actually saying, ‘It is the way that it is.’

C: Hmm!

BR: So, everything else is just a linguistic... [laughs] Right. Okay. So, the intervening time, whether it’s elastic or not, between the time when you started getting referred, between some people – and I’m not asking you to name names here, and I understand it would not be appropriate to do so...

C: Mm-hm.

BR: ...but some of the people who you work closely with, are names who... people would recognize in the public domain.

C: Absolutely. [laughs]

BR: Okay.

C: Yeah, absolutely.

BR: Yeah. And it’s not my intention here to dig into that area at all. I’m more interested in the larger picture and your role in this, and what you can share, to help people understand the world a little bit better, because you’d probably agree with me. People don’t understand the world at all, right?

C: No. They don’t.

BR: They don’t understand...

C: And it’s not their fault.

BR: It’s not their fault, because people have been misguided, and misled, and misdirected.

C: Every step of the way.

BR: Every step of the way. We’ve been lied to, we’ve been tricked, we’ve been deceived, we’ve been... you name it. We’ve been kind of made fools of, for a long time.

C: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. If you know you’re full of yarn, and I’d be prudent to point that all the individuals that would recognize me from this video have absolutely nothing to worry about. They already know they haven’t...

BR: Yes.

C: ...because of what I said earlier. But it would be prudent to point that out...

BR: Yes.

C: ...because there could be some very nervous people running around making decisions that would just get them in more trouble.

BR: Yes. That’s absolutely okay. And, on-record here, as I’ve told you off-record, in making this video with you, it’s not my intention to dig into those areas, to cross any lines that I shouldn’t cross, to embarrass anybody, or to even be disrespectful, because there’s a very subtle and important big picture here, which is really where I want to get to.

C: Absolutely. This part is fairly inconsequential.

BR: Yeah.

C: It’s interesting, maybe, but it doesn’t matter. If you... it’s background.

BR: It’s background, and it may be, by now, that people watching this are already wondering why it is that you have got yourself into a place where you’re able to point out, if you wanted to and if you could, to people, how it is that the way they see the world is wrong. Who it is who’s really running things, why they’re doing it that way, and who it is that you’ve really been working with through having become trusted and respected in that world, to make problems go away.

C: To explain that, you’d have to explain... It’s a very big picture, and you’re not going to put that in a paragraph.

BR: [laughs]

C: It’s... very difficult to quantify like that. That’s a hard question to answer.

BR: It is, yes. It’s a hard question.

C: You’re asking who they are, why they are, why they’ve been doing what they are [doing], and how long have I known them, all in one question.

BR: I asked too many questions at once.

C: In one go. So...

BR: Right. Okay. So, let’s back up a little bit here.

C: Okay.

BR: It may be easiest to frame that around our first contact.

C: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.

BR: Why don’t we build it around that?

C: Okay.

BR: Because... when we first... talked to each other, I was asking you the kinds of questions that the people watching or listening to this will be asking right now.

C: Yeah, I understand that.

BR: And so, can you say, why did you contact me when you did? Why did you do it?

C: I contacted... I was told to contact you. Well, you arrived on my desk, with half a dozen other things at that point. I didn’t realize your relevance until I started to... Ah, well perhaps... I didn’t realize your relevance until we started actually conversing. But then I’ve got to rewind a little bit, because I am also part of the problem, and I was fooled as much as anybody else, until I did something that has left me slightly debilitated, as you well know.

BR: Yes. Are you able to talk about that?

C: Yeah. I don’t mind about talking about how long I’ve got [to live] and that sort of thing. That doesn’t bother me.

BR: Okay.

C: And... I hooked myself up to something with the aid of someone else, to educate myself about certain things that would be very advantageous, not even just financially, just generally advantageous to me. And the deal was done between that individual and me, because he could have got himself in a lot of trouble for doing what we did...

BR: Mm-hm.

C: ...and I could have. So we set up something and it took over a year to set up, at least to get me in the right place at the right time, and the machine in the right frame of mind.

BR: And you used those interesting words.

C: Because, and him.

BR: Yes.

C: So it took, it was a long time in the set... It was a very cheap reason we did it. Okay? And it didn’t go well.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: And it’s left me terminally ill. And also left me with problems in my daily life, to deal with others, which we’re experiencing right now.

BR: Mmh.

C: So, when I did that, it changed my outlook in a way I didn’t understand... That wasn’t what I was setting out... I wasn’t setting out to be sitting here. It was a dastardly deed, not a heroic one. Is that very clear? I am not a hero. Far from it. It was for financial and political gain that I did what I did.

BR: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

C: And it backfired.

BR: And as a spinoff, it kind of deprogrammed you.

C: Absolutely. It’s what it done, without a doubt, yeah.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: Or overprogrammed me.

BR: Okay.

C: Which... I found myself being able to do things that I just couldn’t possibly have any... I’ve got no background in that thing, never been showed how to do it, and was doing it and putting a professional to shame.

BR: Okay.

C: And not ever picked... For instance, I’ve never played golf. It’s actually been quite hard for me in business, because I don’t like golf.

BR: Right.

C: Right? And someone persuaded me... to take a round of golf with them. A very well known golf course and a very hard golf course. And he played on that golf course most of his life, three or four days a week, and I slaughtered him. And I never played golf before in my life.

BR: That’s... amazing.

C: So, well, you could say, ‘Beginner’s luck.’ That’s what we should... the sort of thing I didn’t do it again, because of the amount of attention it was drawing. And that I don’t like. No fuss. So that was frowned on, doing that, and how could I do that. And it was frowned on by the other person that I did the deed with, because that’s going to draw attention. It was quite out of character as well...

BR: Yes.

C: ...but I didn’t realize I was going to be able to do it.

BR: Yes.

C: And I don’t really remember very much about the game either. This is the kind of thing that’s been happening.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: I found myself being able to do things, and I found myself not, found myself not being able to do things I used to be able to do very, very well.

BR: Yes. So it was almost like – and this is very rough – it’s almost like downloading a program, and you didn’t know what the program could do, until it started running. Is that close?

C: Uh...

BR: Do you want to say that again your own way?

C: Yeah. There wasn’t any download as such. There was an interaction.

BR: That was meant as a metaphor. Yeah. It was a...

C: Okay. Yeah, yeah. It was a... but, I understand why you said that, and I understand why you used that metaphor. And you look at, you look at it like that, because of the products that are available in the electronics store anywhere. But that’s not what that machine does.

BR: Okay.

C: That machine interacts with you, and you share things.

BR: Right.

C: And some things are taken from you and some things are given to you. So it’s not a download, is it? It’s a game of tennis.

BR: Yeah, okay. Okay.

C: And that leaves you affected afterwards.

BR: Like it’s a two-way communication thing that’s going on at a very deep level.

C: Yeah. And I’m not completely convinced that that link’s still not there. It might... for want of a better way of putting it – Bluetooth.

BR: That’s interesting. I gotcha. Yeah.

C: And that’s something that we haven’t discussed before and I understand that.

BR: Like an ongoing...

C: But... and I’m not actually a hundred percent sure that what I’m saying there is right.

BR: Yeah. So, just to clarify what you’re saying there, you’re saying there might be like an ongoing remote connection, which you’re not always fully aware of.

C: Yeah, a mental connection that may be... isn’t even deliberate on either part.

BR: Okay.

C: Just like a residual effect.

BR: I gotcha.

C: So yeah, so that golf’s an example. There’s been others.

BR: Hmm. Okay. So the reason why we were talking about...

C: So the reason we’re talking about it is because how you...

BR: About that.

C: So then you are brought to my attention.

BR: There’s a setup and at that point I’m just a name on your... Just another name.

C: Yeah, you’re just another name, just another guy. You’re some funny character in a funny hat that I’ve got and gonna deal with, and I’ve done some research. Well, the research is done for me. And then I looked into it and yeah, fine. And to be honest, I saw you as a very easy person to deal with, because you’re not military, you’ve got no criminal elements to you, what you see is what you get. So, I thought, and you’re a stand-up guy. Stand-up guys are the easiest ones to deal with, because they’ve got morals.

BR: Okay.

C: You can hang someone on their morals, just like that! [snaps his fingers]

BR: Okay.

C: They would do the right thing. I told you a story about, if you want to get to someone you just have a cab pull up with a woman with a cast on her arm.

BR: [laughs] Yes.

C: And the good guy will go straight over and... and you’re in. It’s easy. But if you’re trying to deal with someone that isn’t moralistic, he would just stand there and that won’t work.

BR: Yeah. What you’re saying is that the ‘stand-up guy,’ as you call him, is just very predictable and if you’ve got an opponent or a target who is very predictable then it’s dead easy to [play a game you want].

C: Yes. You’re playing a game of chess and you know every move that person is going to make, it’s not going to be much of a game is it?

BR: Yeah, right. Okay. So you thought it was going to be a pushover and you thought it’s just gonna... or something like that?

C: Yeah, yeah. No if it was going to be a pushover... no problem... I didn’t think you’d take up more than a couple of days of my time.

BR: Okay. So here we are six months later! [laughs]

C: There you go. So...

BR: What’s happened at that point that caused...

C: Well that education, shall we say, that interaction... basically, it was the golf situation again. I didn’t approach it as I usually approach it. I was more thoughtful about it, which was unusual. Well, I’m always thoughtful about things, because you’ve got to be careful, but I seemed to be more worried about the individual than what I had... the task at hand, which was very unusual. And that’s the first thing that pricked my ears to the situation. So I dragged my heels on that and conversed with you and it put me in quite hot water.

BR: And just for the record, this was in August of this year, 2010.

C: Yeah, yeah. So, we conversed and I was asked why I was entering into a dialogue with you and not just getting on with it and I said, well, you’re not the nut we thought you were and I’m not going to be able to crack you the way I thought I was going to and this is the way I’m going to do it, which was accepted because it’s happened before and that was an explanation. And I actually said that I’m going to bring you into my confidence, and disinfo you and make your credibility zero. That’s how... that’s what I was going to do. And so, communication with you was then smiled upon.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: He’s doing his job. That’s no problem. The thing was, in talking to you, you changed my mind, and no one does that. And that’s where I say that machine changed me.

BR: Mm-hm. To enable that to be possible, you mean the machine changed...

C: To even listen to you. Because you don’t know what’s going on, so why would I listen to you?

BR: Mm-hm, mm-hm.

C: But it turned out you do. Or you had an inclination. I’m sure there’s many people like that. Then, as I dragged my heels, eyebrows were raised because it still... we’ll move on a month.

BR: Yup.

C: Why is he still not dealt with? And what’s more, some of things he’s doing are even more annoying. So it was pretty... it was realized that perhaps I wasn’t going to do what I was meant to do and you were given to other people, and those other people... Well see, they’d tried to deal with you before me. Others have tried to...

BR: They had tried to?

C: Yeah and you had difficulties that you...

BR: Ah-hah. Okay. Are you...

C: And it didn’t work, so that’s why I was... because really, I was a bit of a sledge hammer to crack a walnut... getting me out of moth balls... you’ve got to understand, to go and deal with something... me actually, at this point, it might be prudent to say that I didn’t do that any more. It was a little bit of a sledge hammer to crack a walnut...

BR: Right.

C: ...which is another reason that made you more... of a spectacle for me to address.

BR: Yes. Are you able to say on-record here, that what you’re referring to is that other people were deployed to interfere with the work that Kerry Cassidy and I were doing in Project Camelot, are you able to say that?

C: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s fine.

BR: And you were saying that that...

C: And to interfere with your relationship, as... divide and conquer.

BR: Yes. Okay. So, without going into those embarrassing details for individuals concerned, let’s just say that that happened, but then all that happened then, was the ameba split and you could sort of say...

C: Then we had two problems.

BR: Then you had two problems.

C: Yeah.

BR: Because then you had Kerry doing her thing and me doing my thing.

C: Yeah. So that’s when I was brought in, because it obviously wasn’t working and that wasn’t the way to deal with it.

BR: Okay.

C: And... and then, as I said, your file dropped on my desk and I started to do what I... and then in our discourse, I realized that there was more to you than met the eye, dragged my heels, wondered why you were such an issue and the more I dragged my heels, the more uptight that people who don’t get uptight got... and that was, that set some alarm bells off for me as well. And I... whenever you see something like that, it’s... kind... it’s always a good idea to find out why, because financially and business wise there might be an advantage in there. So I felt it prudent, because I’m always after the next man’s chair. And that man knows that. So, I thought, I’ll look into this, and that’s why I dragged my heels and then I realized it was getting more intense. They actually showed themselves up and it got to a point where I had to be told what and why.

BR: Mm-hm. Yup. And it became apparent there’s much more to this than met the eye.

C: Yeah.

BR: Yeah. Okay. What about that can you say here?

C: What, genetics?

BR: Try it. Yeah.

C: I’ll try.

BR: This is now entering another huge area of this playing field, right.

C: Yeah. This is the problem you’re going to have. Do you remember when we first spoke, when we decided that, we said that we were going off in different fields and you could spend six hours on each one.

BR: Absolutely.

C: And I’m not even an educated man, so I’m going to be, it’s going to be hard for me to... So that makes the problem, the process even longer, doesn’t it. But yeah. So, genetically, there are lines of people and those people have been around... that genetic line... not family, not family name, although that does often go in hand-in-hand. Those genetic lines of people have known things for many, many years. Thousands of years. The... and it’s put them in a prominent position. Ninety-eight percent of the money with two percent of the people. Is it really that hard to understand, that if you’ve got the money you’re not going to let it go?

BR: Yeah.

C: And if you’ve got the money, people are going to come to you with their ideas. So you get the jump on everybody else and if you decide not to publish that idea and that idea is handy for your business. I mean, is it really that far fetched? Is it that hard for people to understand that if you’ve got an advantage every step of the way, that you’re going to end up in charge?

BR: Yeah. What we’re talking about, just for other people’s benefit, is what other writers and presenters are talking about bloodlines.

C: Yup.

BR: Yes. Okay. You’re talking about bloodlines.

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And... there are hundreds and hundreds of bloodlines, but most of them don’t matter. There’s probably about four hundred and... there’s four hundred and twenty-seven that are probably relevant, and they’re controlled by thirty-three.

BR: Thirty-three bloodlines.

C: Yup.

BR: And the thirty-three bloodlines, would it be correct to say that they’re on the inside?

C: They are the inside.

BR: They are the inside.

C: Yeah.

BR: They determine what’s inside and what’s outside.

C: Yeah.

BR: Okay. And they know what’s going on. They know the whole story.

C: Yes.

BR: And the others...

C: And that’s where the story gets crazy.

BR: And that’s when the story...

C: And I’m not really part of that.

BR: I understand.

C: And I don’t actually, I’m not actually in with that. You know me as a person and you know that I’m very down-to-earth.

BR: Yup.

C: And I’m not a flower child in any way and to me, it’s a complete load of nonsense, because it’s their religion.

BR: Yes.

C: And it didn’t matter to me, because it makes me money.

BR: Yes. Yes.

C: That’s the early stage. Of course, I realize, as I’m an older man, and... that I haven’t actually got an awful lot of time left, that maybe I’m going to kick them in the [nuts], on my way out.

BR: Yes. Yes. Right. Why is it, that in, using your words, that you want to kick them in the nuts and you’re using this opportunity to do it, in a way... in a way? Is it okay to say that on-record?

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BR: Okay. What is it... why would you want to do that?

C: Because I can.

BR: Okay.

C: I really can’t give you a better answer than that. You know my character now. It’s what I do, isn’t it. It’s why I’m... it’s the ability I’ve got.

BR: Yes.

C: It’s the unpredictable ability that I’ve got. So you can’t turn it off, can you. I’ve got myself in trouble before with... So it’s not a case of...

BR: Mm-hm.

C: Someone’s not mentally ill, if they can suddenly behave themselves when the police turn up.

BR: Right. Catch twenty-two.

C: Yeah. They’re not mentally ill, because they’ve behaved themselves. If they carry on, go completely crazy and attack the police, then it’s a fair assumption that they are actually quite ill.

BR: Mm-hm. Yes.

C: If you see what I mean?

BR: I... yeah. I understand what you’re saying.

C: So I can’t turn it off. I really am what I am. That is actually letting it run out, that interference was part of it. That is the argument that is always going on.

BR: Yes.

C: And it’s a... chicken and egg, isn’t it? Is he interfering or was he meant to interfere?

BR: Is it... Yes, its like, is the interference actually part of the natural process?

C: It’s part of the natural process. Yeah.

BR: Yes. If the lion jumps on the deer, is that interference?

C: Yeah, exactly.

BR: Actually, it’s just the lion doing, etc. etc.

C: Yeah, that’s right. Was it cruel? It’s not. No.

BR: Yup, yup. I understand.

C: And you can put that into, in the world, as well. Politics, the energy crisis, etc. They’re letting it play out.

BR: With some tweaking and steering? Is that an understatement or...?

C: Well, this is what we’re saying, is tweaking and steering... is the human race interference for the planet? Or was it meant to happen? All right, so we make a big mess of it – yeah – a couple of million years go by – does it matter? Of course not.

BR: Okay, yeah.

C: If the planet’s black, what form of life comes next? Was it meant to?

BR: Okay.

C: So... so I don’t get involved in that. And as I said, my feet are on the ground. I don’t care about all that. That’s their argument. You’ve asked me to explain it. I’ve done it as best as I can, but I’m not really interested in it.

BR: I think that’s... I think that’s very clear. I think it’s amazingly interesting and, of course, here I can say that I’m...

C: I find it excruciatingly boring! There we go!

BR: [laughs]

C: But then I didn’t like history, so there you go.

BR: Well right, yes sir. It’s off-record it’s what you’ve always... I mean in the past when we’ve spoken off-record, you’ve always referred to it as a history lesson and you’re always interested in the here and now. You’re not interested in the... [takes a deep breath] all the tradition and the history and the background and the context for all of this is like...

C: Yeah. Never been part of it.

BR: Never been part of it. Yes, I understand, but it is... but it has been an interesting few months for us both, in a way... in a way here...

C: [laughs] Yeah. Things are always fairly interesting for me anyway.

BR: Yes.

C: But yeah, it’s been a little bit more interesting.

BR: Yes. In the sense of the Chinese curse – ‘May you live in interesting times.’

C: Yeah, yeah.

BR: There are some things have been a bit too interesting, right! [laughs]

C: [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely.

BR: Okay. So, just before we get off into lots of different... things here.

C: Yeah, you’ve got to decide which way you want to go now.

BR: Yes, I do. I just want to make sure that, I guess, to your satisfaction and mine, that we’re kind of squared off with how it is that we got to this point today, nearly at the end of 2010. I’m still standing. So are you. We’re having this conversation now and this is, in my view, this is pretty huge because I don’t believe anything of this information has ever been released on the public record before.

C: Of course not, no. Absolutely no. No.

BR: Not at all. And you’re taking this, sort of, on your shoulders to do this... although you would say ‘Wait a minute. On my shoulders right’ [laughs] [points to his own shoulders]

C: Yeah.

BR: Okay. But... and I also know that there are protocols involved here which we’ve talked about which are fascinating, which is that you are not allowed to tell me what to do or to give me advice, because that’s interfering with me playing out...

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, what would be the point of doing that?

BR: Yeah, right. Because that’s interfering again.

C: Yeah, if I... It’s me doing it then, isn’t it? I’m just up to a dastardly deed as usual.

BR: Yeah, right. So you...

C: And there doesn’t need to be any dastardly action in this. This is something that needs to be... I was going to say pure.

BR: Well, in my view, and we’ve had this conversation off camera as well...

C: Which makes me the totally wrong person to do what I’ve done.

BR: Well, I think it’s a wonderful irony here.

C: Yeah!

BR: At an early stage, you did tell me that it had always been expected that you would do something like this and you’re playing...

C: A very high up individual has intimated that to me, that I’m only doing what I would have done.

BR: Yes.

C: That was the phrase that was used.

BR: Yes. In other words... putting my own words on this, you are actually a purist showing his true colors at last, even though you were given the direction by the other camp.

C: Okay. Yeah, okay.

BR: Is that? It... it’s a sort of.

C: Yeah, yeah.

BR: Because...

C: Well, you’re explaining it to me more succinctly than I could explain it to you.

BR: Well... yeah.

C: So it’s good, because it means that you’ve got what I’m saying.

BR: I believe I’ve got.

C: You have. You have definitely. And that’s good...

BR: Interesting.

C: ...because it draws a line under it for me. I can start diminishing my involvement now.

BR: Yeah. Right. And just to sort of help to wrap that up, you are actually allowing this to play out in a way that is interesting to everybody, because actually nobody really knows what’s going to happen next.

C: No.

BR: Nobody knows what’s going to happen next.

C: No. No one does.

BR: Except that it’s a fairer fight than... fairer contest than it was before. I don’t want to use the word ‘fight’ because I’m not into fighting.

C: It’s not a fight.

BR: It’s not a fight.

C: A river running downhill is rapid at one point and very calm and slowly but... That’s not a fight is it? It’s just what happens.

BR: It’s sort of energy finding a resolution.

C: Sometimes it’s violent and fast, but sometimes it moves along slowly. When it’s moving fast, is that a fight? No. It’s just a different momentum. So, no. There’s not a fight.

BR: Yeah. It’s situations finding a natural resolution of some kind.

C: Yeah. That’s a much better way of putting it.

BR: Yeah. Yeah. And so, what you want to see – this is what I... this is a question – what you want to see and what’s motivating you, is you want to see things find a good natural resolution. And actually, there are several times when you’ve told me off-record, off-camera, that you don’t think I stand a chance.

C: No. I still don’t.

BR: But you’re still willing to give me my musket, or my lance or whatever like that, so that I can do something.

C: Oh yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

BR: Yeah. And then, may the best man win and all the rest of it, but you reckon I’m probably outgunned.

C: I know you are.

BR: Metaphorically speaking, outgunned.

C: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

BR: Okay. All right. Mm-hm.

C: But, that is [takes a deep breath]... and you say that I would be interested. I’m not going to be around.

BR: Yes.

C: So, you’ve got to temper that with a little... ‘How interested could I really be?’

BR: When you say, ‘not going to be around,’ this is reminding people watching this, this is because you’re terminally ill?

C: That’s right. Yeah.

BR: Right. Do you know how long you’ve got?

C: Two years.

BR: Two... something like that?

C: Yeah, yeah. You know how these things can go, yeah.

BR: Maybe it... Yeah. Yeah.

BR: But people have said to me, you’re quite resilient, so you could say maybe three, maybe four. But that’s where it goes for me and it also might be a point to make. I’d, I’d... I’ve no... Obviously, because I’ve got my back to the camera, it’s pretty obvious that I’ve got no, there is no stardom value in this for me. Far from it. I want nothing to do with that and this is probably going to be one of the only videos you’re ever going to have of me.

BR: Oh, well you... well...

C: Well, we’ll see what goes well.

BR: Given that the future is unpredictable...

C: The only reason [that] there’ll be another one, is because something wasn’t clarified.

BR: Okay.

C: Not because I want to do another one.

BR: I understand that.

C: That’s your job.

BR: Yes, yes. I understand that. Okay. Do you think you will get into trouble for doing this video? For making this video with me?

C: I would’ve yesterday, but not today.

BR: Not today?

C: Because you’ve decided to do it.

BR: Because I decided to do it. What’s – and I say this half in jest, but only half – what’s the difference between that and passing the buck?

C: Very little! [laughs]

BR: [laughs]

C: Very little.

BR: Okay.

C: Delegation I prefer!

BR: Okay. But you’re kind of saying that in this natural process you’ve been describing, if I’m taking the risk on my own shoulders, taking responsibility for it, then that’s part of this fair contest which you want to encourage?

C: Yeah.

BR: And...

C: And there are going to be individuals that, the original individuals that sent me to you, that are going to make it unfair for you, again. If they, you can obviously understand that if they’ve done that once, they will do that again.

BR: Yes.

C: All right?

BR: Yes.

C: And while I’m still around, you won’t have any problems.

BR: Right.

C: That’s going to be the level of my involvement from now on.

BR: Okay.

C: That’s it.

BR: Okay. Are you giving me your word on that?

C: Yeah.

BR: That’s good! I’m looking at this guy in the eye! Yeah.

C: [laughs]

BR: [laughs] Okay. That’s very cool, and I didn’t mean that in a flippant way, by the way.

C: No, no.

BR: Yeah. But, I do appreciate that. And this is something that you have warned me about many times, actually. And this is something that I appreciate, because...

C: Well, it’s getting quite sticky at the moment, isn’t it?

BR: Things are getting...

C: Yeah. I mean...

BR: ...interesting. Let’s say, the stakes are getting... I mean, the chips are piling up on the table.

C: Well, the man in the street is uneasy. He doesn’t know why he’s uneasy. He knows there is a monster coming, but doesn’t even know what it is.

BR: Yes. Okay, good. Cue the monster. What is this monster we are talking about here?

C: Ah...

BR: In your words, not mine.

C: Okay. Let’s look at the... the... as you use, as you... I’m going to use, for your term, ‘bloodline.’

BR: Right.

C: Let’s say, the thirty-three bloodlines are the monster.

BR: That’s not a word that I would... that I’m not wanting to use that, that terminology.

C: Oh, so you’re talking about the monster in regards to what’s going to happen.

BR: Yes. That’s what I thought you meant.

C: ______ What... Right, okay.

BR: I’m not talking about anybody as being monstrous. That’s not my... That’s not what I’m doing.

C: Ah, right. Okay. Okay... So, so... help me out here?

BR: Yeah. What you’re saying what...

C: What are you actually saying? What are you asking me?

BR: Okay. What you’re saying was, the man in the street is getting uneasy, because they sense that there’s a monster coming. Those were your words.

C: Yeah. That, yeah. Okay, yeah. And by a ‘monster’ I mean... maybe I’ve used the wrong word actually. By a ‘monster,’ I mean the situation is changing. And when anyone’s situation changes it makes them uneasy, doesn’t it? Financially for instance. You’ve got ten grand in you bank account on Monday, someone commits fraud on you on Wednesday, and on Friday someone is making an injunction on your house. You’re not as happy as you were on Monday. So that’s what’s coming, that kind of thing.

BR: Yes. So, financial instability... Some people...

C: Well, _________. I mean, we’re not telling anyone anything they don’t already know. We’re already in a... There’s already been financial tinkering. Perhaps let me put it like this. We’re on a globe, yes?

BR: Right.

C: Yeah, and we’ve got an atmosphere.

BR: Right.

C: Yeah, and money can’t fly.

BR: Right.

C: Right. So where’s it all gone?

BR: Where’s it all gone? Right.

C: Someone’s got it back.

BR: Yeah. You can’t have everyone in the world you’re going bankrupt. Yeah.

C: If you are... Exactly. If everyone else in the world went bankrupt, well who decided that, and who’s got that money? Where did it get to after that?

BR: It’s like having a casino with no chips. It’s like wait a minute, who’s got the chips? Someone’s got the chips.

C: Yeah. Who won them all? And they’re at his house.

BR: Yes. Or actually they are in the bank! [laughs]

C: There you go.

BR: Yeah, sure. Okay. So, so...

C: And that is, very roughly... It’s far more complicated than that, but if you basically pull the finger out of the dyke, that’s what they’ve done. And that’s how they control finances. There isn’t a someone at the stock exchange who makes a phone call and there is no plan. It is... but these individuals are so powerful and I mean powerful, not rich. They are so powerful because of their wealth, that when they remove that wealth from any area, that area collapses. And if you want to put... and the world is an area.

BR: Mmh. Yeah.

C: But then we go on to the subject of money. Money is a control system. It’s nothing to do with money. It’s not... Money is nothing. It’s no more important than pigeons. It’s something that... it’s a machine for picking people out.

BR: Yes. I understand that, and I think a lot of people watching this will be aware of this.

C: Yeah. The more paper you get together and by that I mean money...

BR: Yes.

C: To do that, you have to be a type of individual. Do you want to go this way?

BR: Go on. Go on.

C: Okay. To do that, you have to be a... If you’re... Depending on what field you’re in... Let’s say you’re particularly good at acting and you haven’t been discovered. And you land a plum role and you are paid two million pounds to do it. And then you go and invest that two million pounds, rather than go and buy yourself a house and live the life. You go and invest that in a business. And that nets you fourteen million pounds. And then you invest that, and then you get another role. This will be noticed and as your accumulation gets to a point, you will be approached. And the reason you’ll be approached, is because to get that kind of money together, everyone in the street will tell you you’re not a nice guy. You don’t get that way by being a nice guy. You can get inherited money and be a nice guy, and you won’t have it very long.

BR: Or you could be very, very smart. You don’t have to play dirty to get money, do you? Do you?

C: Ah, yes you do. Yeah, I think you do, yeah. And that’s a personal opinion and it’s also... and that is a fact. It’s my personal opinion, but it’s also a fact. If you want to hang onto your money, you’re going to have to develop a thicker skin. And in developing that thicker skin, you will understand what they are going to explain to you. It will make you susceptible. You have to [develop a thicker skin]...

BR: Okay.

C: Or just give your money away, which is never going to happen, because why would you try to accumulate it in the first place?

BR: Yes, right.

C: You could put a word on it and say ‘greed,’ but it’s far more complex than that.

BR: Okay.

C: Insecurity.

BR: [takes a deep breath]

C: People... Look at me. I came from a very weak background and I can assure you that getting money together was a way of increasing my security.

BR: Yes.

C: So that wasn’t greed.

BR: Yeah, sure. Yeah. I understand.

C: So, it’s a system. You can look at actors, athletes, businessmen, any walk of life. They are judged on what?

BR: Well, certainly one of the things people are judged on...

C: All right. That particular talent. Let’s put that to one side.

BR: Oh, I’m sorry. Yeah, okay.

C: If they have a particular talent... It’s obviously... That’s how they get the im... their fame, Okay? So, let’s put that to one side. The very next of... well, anyone that matters, let’s put it that way, anyone that matters to that individual, will judge them on how much money they are making. And that’s literally... If you’re today’s cheese, you’re great, I’ll talk to you. If you’re three day old, I don’t want to know, because you’ve run out of money.

BR: Yeah. I understand that.

C: ‘Money goes to money.’ You heard that saying before?

BR: Oh, yeah. So this is one way in which... as you said just five minutes ago, this is what the man in the street, the person in the street is becoming... concerned about, because there are financial games being played of all kinds and they’re taking the chips back off the table and so on and so forth. And people are saying ‘Hey, where are all the chips have gone?’ etc. What else is happening? That’s sort of old news. As you said, that’s sort of old news.

C: Yeah. Exactly, yeah. As I said, this is something that everyone knows, yeah.

BR: And that’s something that’s been happening for a little while now.

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So...

BR: But what’s coming at us? What changes might we see in the world and on the planet in the next few years? A lot of people really want to know that. Can you tell us anything about that? Either what you think, what you’ve heard or what you know.

C: Well, the first thing to say about that – and this is really important – is this: there is no 2012. It’s just all rubbish. Complete rubbish, all of it. And I don’t mean that to upset people. I know they understand and believe what they believe and I know they’ve got what they call ‘evidence,’ but they’re basing their evidence on an education that was complete nonsense in the first place.

BR: Yes. And there’s been a lot of disinformation...

C: Of course, yeah.

BR: ...that’s been injected into the alternative community to provide people a way of chasing their tails forever and not looking at the real issues. Is that right?

C: And then you’ve got the media. A car crash is far more interesting than the motorway with everything happening – fine.

BR: Okay. Right. Yeah, yeah.

C: You see, you see what I mean by that? If there’s an opponent, the whole thing is much more interesting and it keeps you looking that way.

BR: Yes. Okay.

C: So... they’re very happy for you... for ah... if I can say people like you. I don’t mean it in that way, but you know what I mean. The alternative media. They are very happy for you to do what you’re doing.

BR: To be talking up the esoteric significance of 2012?

C: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The crazier the story the more rolls of laughter are heard. And they have been watched.

BR: Yes. Right.

C: Over cigars and whiskey. I’ve seen them roll with laughter over things... because sometimes you get things right.

BR: Mm-hm. Oh, you mean like a lucky hit?

C: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, in the public domain, quite often... really, if you could piece it all together, it’s all there. And individuals have it got it right on the money in the total wrong context, so that is very funny... from this point of view.

BR: Okay. So, what you’re kind of describing is that all of this, to some degree, is being regarded as... It’s sometimes it’s regarded as entertainment. It’s just like, ‘So, look at what this...’

C: Absolutely, yeah. You guys are regarded as entertainment. Yeah, that’s a very fair comment.

BR: ‘Look at what this twit is saying here.’

C: Because they don’t consider you a threat. Well, not yet. I say you, the alternative media. Not you!

BR: Yes. Mm-hm. Okay.

C: You’ve... What you don’t want is anyone being taken seriously. What you don’t want is someone who is going to coherently put an argument together, is willing to listen to the discourse and come back with a different version adapted, because that’s dialogue and that’s productive! They don’t want that.

BR: Okay.

C: They want a guy with his hair tied up in ponytails, with a white line painted across his face doing an Indian rain dance and then trying to tell you something about what’s going to happen in 2012. They want that!

BR: Yes. And because the spirits are telling him [something].

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s got tin foil on his head. Great guy. We like him.

BR: Okay. All right. All right. So anyone who...

C: There’s just something about tin foil that we were talking about which is quite relevant, isn’t there? But we’ve... that’s another ques... That’s another situation altogether. Do you remember what he was talking about?

BR: Do you want to deal with...? I do remember that. Do you want to talk about the tin foil hat thing?

C: No, because that... To be honest, that’s part of the joke, and that’s not what you want to do here.

BR: No. Okay. All right. No, that’s true. So, what you’re saying there... and all of this was in the context of what’s coming down the pike at us over the next few years, and then you started off, which I did appreciate, saying... Well, actually, first of all, let’s get the nonsense out of the way. And you’re saying, that in the alternative media, there’s a lot of nonsense, and from the inside, the whole thing is seen as a bit of a comedy show most of the time.

C: Yeah.

BR: It’s like, ‘Look how pr...’

C: And the times it isn’t taken as a comedy show is when they actually take your ideas on. Because every now and then, some crackpot will come up with an idea that actually flies.

BR: Okay.

C: And it will be used. And that crackpot will find his life easier.

BR: Hmm.

C: He will get funded.

BR: Can you give us an example of that?

C: Ah... You put me on the spot there. Ah...

BR: ‘No’ is fine. That’s all right.

C: No, I can’t. Not right now.

BR: Okay.

C: Let me think while we’re talking, and maybe... Or maybe you’ll come across something where it’ll become apparent to me that it is an example.

BR: Okay. Okay. That’s cool, but I get the concept. I was just immediately curious, because we hadn’t, you hadn’t mentioned to that to me before.

C: Oh.

BR: Okay. So. What you’re describing, is that the alternative media is a bit of a circus. It’s a bit of a comedy show. There’re all kinds of characters who have got their... some fixed idea about something that’s very crazy, and that suits the 33 very well, because they are very happy to see people running as hard as they can in the wrong direction...

C: Yeah!

BR: And taking as many people with them as possible.

C: Yeah.

BR: Because it takes away a potential source of problem, which is what would be, people actually really waking up and looking at the right thing.

C: Yeah. Yeah.

BR: Okay

C: Yeah, disinformation, yeah.

BR: Yeah.

C: It’s very useful. The most useful thing, I would say. It’s better than a pun.

BR: I know... Right, right. [laughs] On a... well, it’s, yes.

C: Because if you threaten these guys, they actually get worse.

BR: Yes. Yes.

C: It gives them validity.

BR: Yes. Yes. Right. So... you said you weren’t very good with numbers, which, I actually don’t really believe that.

C: Hah!

BR: But... on a percentage scale, in the alternative media, how much, nonsense is there?

C: I’ve already told you that one, and you already know. I would say at least 70 percent.

BR: Yeah.

C: At least! And that’s fair.

BR: Yeah.

C: My personal opinion is... 90 percent [laughs], but that’s a bit unfair, because I don’t get on with those people very well at all, which is why you’re another surprise.

BR: Right. It’s another surprise because we get along well with each other.

C: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

BR: Yeah, right.

C: Usually, I couldn’t tolerate someone like you, because I’d get angry and just say, ‘You’re talking rubbish’ and ‘get out of my sight’ somewhere at you.

BR: Okay. [laughs] That’s a... actually, that’s very funny.

C: [laughs]

BR: It’s like, ‘Get out of my sight and I’m taking care of you here, because otherwise, you’d be smart to walk out that door now.’ This is, yeah, okay, it’s a joke. I notice sometimes it hasn’t been a joke either.

C: No, no.

BR: It’s a very fine line. We’ve thought... We’ve talked about this, as well.

C: We talked about this before. Yeah, yeah.

BR: Like between humor and deadly seriousness.

C: Yeah, yeah.

BR: Yeah, okay. Those of you who know me quite well, know that I make a lot of jokes in seriousness. Okay. So, if we’re talking about the 70 percent that’s nonsense – let’s say it’s 70 – what’s the 30 percent that’s real?

C: God, that’s a good question. And it’s quite large... Again, you’ve done it. It’s [a] quite large question. Perhaps you... I mean, I could put that, back that, straight back at you and say, ‘What do you think the 30 percent is real?’ You’d... and it’s just as difficult for you to answer.

BR: Well... I could...

C: I think people get an idea of who is telling the truth and who isn’t. All right. You could tell me it’s right. ‘Oh, body language.’ Everyone would go for body language. Let me tell you something about body language.

BR: Go on.

C: I use it all the time. And if someone... If you are aware... It’s very easy for me because of my accent and what people... People make it... and very often make a judgment about me, and that’s very handy. Very handy.

BR: Okay. It suits you down to the ground.

C: Definitely. Uneducated. Thuggish... Brutal.

BR: And they think that you’re unintelligent.

C: Yeah!

BR: Yeah.

C: Or they consider me dangerous, maybe. Or, they watch their step, maybe. But they wouldn’t expect me to know things about body language and things like that. Now they’re in dangerous position there, because I do. And body language is something you can use against someone, because if you know and can control yourself, which can be done, you can give them a false flag.

BR: Yes.

C: They’ll think that you’re telling the truth, and you’re not! Because you know that you can control yourself. So, they are their own worst enemies. A little bit of education... [is] very dangerous.

BR: They can think that you’re being submissive, and you’re not.

C: Absolutely! They can think that I’m telling the truth. It’s getting quite in the public domain there, body language and the psychology behind it and the rest of it. If your eyes do this or they do that. Well, yeah, okay. If the guy doesn’t know or the girl doesn’t know anything about it, and you’re educated and you’re there for a reason, and you’re looking for those things and they’re unaware of it. Well then, yeah, of course, you’ll get a good representation of what that person’s thinking and saying. But if the individual is playing you and has a good education in that, they will use it against you. And you won’t even be aware of it.

BR: Yes.

C: Yeah?

BR: Yes. And...

C: And you’re now wondering if I’m doing it to you.

BR: I’ve been watching you for the last four or five months. You’re a very good psychologist. Of course you are.

C: [laughs]

BR: Not an academic one. But you never were academically qualified in any of the things which you’re good at.

C: No.

BR: It’s been very interesting watching you do your job very professionally and effectively. And then I said...

C: But what I would say, is I haven’t.

BR: Well, not by your previous standards.

C: No.

BR: Not by your previous standards. Mmh, mmh.

C: Yeah. That’s a good way of putting it. Yeah, I do do it, but for the right reasons. Let’s put it that way.

BR: Yeah.

C: Okay?

BR: Yup.

C: If you’re getting somewhere, where... you said it last night. The hot and cold game.

BR: Yes.

C: That’s what I do.

BR: Yes.

C: That’s what I do. So I’m doing it in that respect.

BR: Yes. Like, what you’re talking...

C: You’re getting warmer.

BR: What you’re talking about is guiding and steering.

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BR: Saying, ‘Yes, yes. You’re on the mark. Now you’re not on the mark now.’

C: Yeah. Not defending myself.

BR: Yeah.

C: Trying to get out of... I’m... You’re not the judge.

BR: Sure.

C: So I don’t need to be a victor. I don’t need to be the... uh... in the dock.

BR: Yeah. Okay. Now, we got onto that because we were talking about... what people thought about you. We were talking about disinformation. We were talking about what people – I think we were – what people thought about you and people would often read you wrong, and that... you were talking about body language and so on and so forth.

C: Mm-hm.

BR: The tracks that we were on just before that... I was talking about what in the 30 percent...

C: Yeah.

BR: ...that wasn’t the 70 percent...

C: Yeah.

BR: ...maybe is on the money or close to it. What do we need to worry about? There are a lot of people watching this right now, who really want to know what they should be aware of, what they should be looking at, what they should be caring for.

C: Okay. Let’s allay some fears.

BR: Yeah.

C: Some serious nonsense.

BR: Very good. Let’s go.

C: No nuclear war.

BR: Good.

C: Forget it! It’s not happening. Never will happen. Would have happened by now. Surely you can see that.

BR: Okay.

C: Yeah? 1983, we came that close.

BR: 1983?

C: Yeah.

BR: Okay.

C: Or was it ‘85? ‘85.

BR: I don’t know. Okay.

C: We came that close. Documented. Have a look into it. I... I can’t remember what it was all about, but basically, America and Russia came within inches and a mistake and that kind of...

BR: It’s not the Cuban Missile Crisis, would it?

C: Yeah, yeah. It...

BR: We’re talking about that one. [What you mean while I can’t know?]

C: No, no. Later on, no.

BR: Later on, in the ‘80s, huh? Okay.

C: Yeah, later on. Yeah, yeah. I’m not an historian, Bill, so I don’t know. I’ll just use an example. There was something. We have come close a few times. You just mentioned another one. So...

BR: I believe it. I believe it.

C: Okay. And it didn’t happen. So, if it was going to, that was when it was going to. So, that’s all rubbish. And besides, if you do that, you ruin everything.

BR: Yup. And...

C: Purely, pure nonsense!

BR: And it takes people out, and it’s not selective, is it. It’s not selective.

C: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You damage what you... Do you want that country after that? Look at how long you’re going to have to wait. And let’s face it. Look what happened to England. They ended up paying for the Second World War and putting everything right. And they’re now in a weaker position than Germany is.

BR: Okay. So they’re saying...

C: And Japan. Same thing with Japan, with America.

BR: Yeah. So you are saying...

C: The winner loses... financially.

BR: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

C: So, yeah. Just from the finance... People understand finances, and they know that everyone... The top is greedy. This is no... This is stuff we know. So just by that same token, there is going to be no conflict of that description, because it’s detrimental to everybody.

BR: Okay.

C: So that’s... It’s not hard... You don’t have to go... I feel sorry for the guys who are going to liquidate all their assets and run to the hills. You’re idiots. There was no need to do that. You’ve wasted your time. If you did it because of that, you’ve wasted your time.

BR: Yes. Or let’s say that people who’ve liquidated their assets and they built themselves a bunker a hundred feet under the earth.

C: Yeah, they’ve wasted, they’ve wasted a lot of money that they could’ve used... in a far better way.

BR: Okay. So that’s important. You’re saying, for sure, because you know on-record, no nuclear war.

C: Let me say this for sure. Mistakes happen.

BR: Okay.

C: Obviously. Nuclear mistakes even.

BR: Okay.

C: But there is no perceived plan to do that, on their part.

BR: Okay. Good. So that’s one thing you said you want to knock on the head.

C: Okay. So that’s done.

BR: Is there more?

C: Ah, so 2012. Something’s going to hit us out of the space... Something’s going to, some natural massive phenomenon is going to happen.

BR: People talk about a pole shift, which has happened in the past.

C: Yeah. And Nibiru [mispronounced]... Anyway, I’ve been told that we are a binary system.

BR: A binary system.

C: Yeah.

BR: But nothing to worry about? Something to worry about?

C: No. Ah, no. Nothing to worry about the fact that it’s a binary system and the ‘2012’ you want to take that stupid film. That’s... that. There will be some difficulties because of solar activity. I’ve been told that. Around, in and around that time. But they’re not even accurate. You can’t... no one can predict what the sun is about to do.

BR: Okay.

C: I can, this happens at that certain time, and it’s not my field. So I don’t really want to talk about that. But, no. I’ve been told that – well, we’ve all been told – because of our business assets and so on, that it might be a good idea to have some sort of electromagnetic protection for your equipment.

BR: Right. That’s important...

C: Around that time.

BR: That’s... and...

C: But it’s not going to be the end of the world. We are talking about something that happened... It’s happened a hundred years ago.

BR: Yes.

C: It’s documented and they... and people... and it’s been documented that it is coming. It’s not a secret.

BR: Yes. Is this 2013? Is this something like that?

C: Yeah, 2012, 2013. Like I said, you can put a number. There you go, with your calendar again.

BR: Right. Okay.

C: We’re on a ball flying through space. What are you talking about calendars for? It’s nonsense! It’s education that you had that wasn’t needed!

BR: Okay. So, what you’re saying – this is a running summary here – you’re saying that the solar system is a binary system, but that’s not in itself a problem.

C: Yeah.

BR: There is going to be some heightened solar activity probably.

C: Can I just stop you there?

BR: Yeah.

C: I’m not saying that, because I’m not an educated... I’ve...

BR: You’re saying...

C: I know as much... [laughs] I know nothing about that. I only get involved if something is going to damage me. And if something is being said that I might take heed of, it will be stopped when I ask the question. But I don’t want an education on it. I just ask, ‘Is that something I’ve got to worry about? Yes or no.’ No, it isn’t.

BR: Okay.

C: All right? And that’s what I’m saying. Don’t get me into the science of it, because I have no idea.

BR: Yes. Yeah. But, these are things that have come up in conversation.

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BR: They’ve come up in conversation.

C: Yes. Like I said, sometimes the alternative media’ll get it right.

BR: Okay. And you’ve got reason to believe that when those things did come up in conversation, no one was bullshitting you.

C: No, that’s right. They wouldn’t. You wouldn’t bullshit me.

BR: This is just the way it was. Okay. Right. Okay, good.

C: Not because of any threat. You just wouldn’t. That’d be... That would... muck it all up, wouldn’t it?

BR: It wouldn’t be smart for them to do that, if they want to work with you.

C: No. Exactly. Yeah? Because I might decide that the bit of bullshit they gave me, is the reason why I don’t want to do what they want me to do.

BR: Right. Good. That’s why I decided at a very stage, I wouldn’t bullshit you.

C: Yeah.

BR: Yeah. Smart, right?

C: Mm-hm. Very.

BR: Okay.

C: Because I would have known.

BR: You would have known, and I knew you have known. So, and that’s actually kept things on a very even keel between us, which I would like to think, you’ve appreciated.

C: Yeah, which is why I said I wouldn’t use body language on you, other than to help you.

BR: Right. Yup. Okay. Back to what it is that we... that is real here.

C: Yeah. So we were on the list, weren’t we. Okay. So we got 2012. There is going to be some solar activity. There is going to be a problem with the poles, but not... a problem problem. Not something that is going to cause... They don’t think it’s going to cause massive disruption. However, preparations are being made.

BR: Okay. Prep... can you say anything more about that?

C: Well, you all know. Everybody knows. Everyone knows about...

BR: Oh, you mean the underground bases?

C: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s millions and millions. I can’t even... I don’t know what the figure is for England, but... or of, I don’t know what the figure is for America. I’ve .. it really doesn’t interest me, but they have spent billions of dollars...

BR: Mmh.

C: ...finding places that can be tunneled easily, and then going for it.

BR: Yes.

C: In a way. [laughs] And what always amazes me is, there are lorries [a ‘lorry’ is the British term for ‘truck’] going down there.

BR: Yeah.

C: And those lorries are driven by guys that really should know better. And should be saying, ‘Well, you know where I went today, dear?’ And they don’t! They just don’t! It’s amazing. That is one that actually amazes me quite often. People just don’t... ‘I’m getting paid $800 a day to do it. All right? I won’t talk about it.’

BR: Yeah. [inhales deeply] This is something that’s occurred to me. The tens of thousands of people involved in construction, and no one saying anything.

C: If you want to look for a villain, they’re it! Yeah, they’re on... They’re you guys! And they’re stabbing you right in the back for money!

BR: Yeah. There’s taking the money, signing a nondisclosure agreement and just... whatever.

C: Well, just not a nondi[sclosure]... We... what, we’re talking about truck drivers and people like that, you’re going about people that were met in prison.

BR: Okay.

C: ‘And when you get out, go and see this guy.’ And you can drive a pantechnicon truck [large removal van].

BR: Okay.

C: ‘There you go.’

BR: All right.

C: ‘He’s going to pay you five, six grand a week to do it.’

BR: Mmh.

C: ‘And you just go here, drop the trailer and go back and get another one.’

BR: Okay.

C: ‘You do it twice a day, and we’ll pay you $800 to do it.’

BR: Okay.

C: This is a guy that was imprisoned for... beating the living shit out of his wife.

BR: Okay.

C: All right? So, we’re not talking about people... Just because someone can drive a lorry, don’t make him a decent blue-collar worker.

BR: I gotcha. Yup. I gotcha. All right. Is there anyth...

C: If you’re looking for a villain in the whole thing, they’re it. And that’s you lot.

BR: Mmh. When you say ‘you lot,’ you mean the people who are not part of the inside structure.

C: Yeah, yeah.

BR: Just people who are taking the money and...

C: And running!

BR: And running.

C: Yeah?

BR: Yup. I believe it.

C: And there’s certain individuals in there that are feathering their own nest. They’re digging their own holes.

BR: Yes. [sighs]

C: Because they thought, ‘Well, if you’re doing it...’

BR: Okay.

C: Which is an odd one, but that does happen.

BR: Now, a couple of minutes ago, when we were talking about the nuclear war being off the table, or not happening, you said that the guys who were heading for the hills are wasting their time, or at least not for that reason.

C: Yeah, yeah.

BR: Is there any reason why somebody heading for the hills and getting a little farm and little community...

C: Well, if you’re going to say ‘farm,’ that’s completely different. That’s very wise.

BR: Why is that wise?

C: Well, you could argue that, as well. That could be very foolish, because I haven’t gotten anything to eat, and you’ve got a farm, you’re in serious trouble.

BR: Okay. Mm-hm.

C: So, if you got a farm, you’d better have some geographical... an island would be good.

BR: Mm-hm. Why? What’s happened? What’s going to be coming down the line?

C: Well, again, I believe that... No, it’s not even the wrong way to start that. People know about companies.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: And we ought to be careful about naming those companies at this point, because it’s actionable.

BR: All right.

C: And it will be actioned.

BR: Okay.

C: I assure you. That has been put on the table. That isn’t what’s going to happen. If people’s, if the alternative media start using names of large companies, they are going to find things very difficult for them. They will be prosecuted. Their finances will be destroyed.

BR: Yeah. Okay. So, you’re... I’m not going to...

C: You’re referring to food.

BR: Yes. You’re talking to... So, you’re referring to large companies who are dealing with food.

C: Yeah.

BR: Okay. Everyone knows here... what you’re talking about.

C: Genetically modified food.

BR: Genetically modified food.

C: And, if you’re a farmer in Wisconsin, you’d know exactly what I’m talking about, and you’ve just jumped up in your chair and said, ‘Finally! Someone’s going to say it.’

BR: All right. So what’s...

C: Because they’ve been living it for years.

BR: Yeah. So what’s going on there? This is a big one, isn’t it? This is important.

C: Yeah, it is. If you want to worry about something, that’s what you want to worry about.

BR: Okay. So tell people...

C: And we’re... and there’s no time frame on this. This has been, being rolled out for years. As I said, go to the midwest. Ask any guy there who he’s had to deal with and the tactics they’ve used when he didn’t want to do it. There’s a very, very small number of farmers that use their own seed now. And they are ridiculed, disenfranchised, hounded... all but criminalized... in their own communities, for not towing that line.

BR: Yeah.

C: Planting their own seeds.

BR: So, what’s all that about? Why is this happening?

C: Well now, I’ll tell you straight away. You... immediately, as I said, that guy jumps up and says ‘Yay!’ There are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of other people that have been brought into a way of thinking the genetically modified crops is the only way to feed the population in this... and the size it is.

BR: Right.

C: And that equation works. It is. It does. That is the only way, if the population’s the size it is.

BR: Okay.

C: So, if we stop using genetically modified crops, we are evil because we are making the poor man starve.

BR: Right.

C: Yeah? Because it’s the only way we can go about to produce enough crops for that poor man.

BR: Okay.

C: So immediately, I’m a demon now, because I’ve dared to cross the genetically modified crop issue by saying that it’s not good. Yeah, but straight away, they’ll say, ‘Well, you’re evil because that... if you start making people think now or people take this video seriously, etc. and they start actively pursuing, in their state or their county, there is a trial – well, we’re past the trial stage now, aren’t we – there are fields that are being used – and like that. They will say straight away, ‘This is a good thing, because it enables higher yield.’ BR: Yes.

C: ‘So therefore we’ll have surplus. So we can send it to people that need it.’

BR: Yes.

C: Because the population’s the size it is.

BR: Mmh.

C: Yeah? So the only way is a good thing. And to dissent on it is evil, because you’re going to make people starve.

BR: Right. Okay. So, what you’re saying is that this is being sold as being a good thing, because it’s a way to solve the problem.

C: It is a good thing. Mathematically, you wouldn’t be able to argue it. It is a good thing.

BR: Okay.

C: Until someone turns the switch off. Then it’s a really bad thing.

BR: Yes. ‘Turning the switch off’ meant as a metaphor? What’s the switch? Can you help people understand what that would be?

C: Well, a farmer wouldn’t understand why I said straight away, if I don’t give you seed anymore, because you don’t pay your bill...

BR: Okay. So you’re talking something that disrupts that system that’s been set up.

C: Yeah, you want... literally. You... I’m might educate you, but you know about... They’re buying seed that will not yield, will not reproduce, yes?

BR: Yes, yes.

C: Okay? When it’s grown, that’s that.

BR: Yes.

C: And you’re not allowed to store seed that is able to grow and reproduce. That’s actually almost criminal now.

BR: Yes. Yes.

C: Yeah? They will hound you if you’ve got that kind of seed, because they want to stamp that kind of seed out, so you’re totally dependent on what your... what comes on a lorry every year.

BR: Yes. Okay.

C: Is that farming?

BR: Yeah, right. So...

C: It takes away the very essence of farming!

BR: Yeah. So you’re saying then, if that structure is interrupted in some way, then the whole house of cards comes down.

C: Yeah!

BR: And what you’re saying, then – I haven’t heard you say this just now, but it sounds to me like what you’re saying then is, this is planned and engineered. This is going to happen? They’re going to do this?

C: Absolutely.

BR: Right. You said that without even thinking about. It’s like, ‘Yes! Absolutely!’

C: It is going to happen.

BR: It is going to happen.

C: Yeah. It’s just a matter of when.

BR: But, yeah.

C: And that will be when the time’s right.

BR: When the time’s right.

C: Because there is no time, which is always makes me love it when you make predictions.

BR: Yeah.

C: They’re in that 70 percent of the alternative media. They’re complete idiots.

BR: Yes.

C: Because as soon as someone – here’s an interesting thing for you – as soon as someone puts a date on it, we won’t do it. That’s the end of it.

BR: Right. Right.

C: Credibility out the window.

BR: Yeah. It’s a wonderful opportunity to destroy someone’s credibility by mentioning a date.

C: We love it when they do that.

BR: Got it. Okay. Yup. That’s easy to understand.

C: And a couple of your friends have done that.

BR: Yes. Yeah. Right.

C: And, of course, it hasn’t happened.

BR: Right. Yes. Interesting. Okay. Back to the big scenario here. You’re saying this is a big one. They’re planning to disrupt the food supply and distribution.

C: No. Not disrupt it.

BR: Not disrupt it?

C: Control it.

BR: Control it.

C: Yeah. So, if you... live in Brazil, you’re going to be all right.

BR: Okay.

C: If you live... [in] Africa... you’re not.

BR: Ah... yeah.

C: I mean, everybody got problems anyways. Probably a bad... They got problems. Well, there’s parts of Africa that haven’t. They’re very... very productive.

BR: Well, how about Europe?

C: Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

BR: What, so...

C: And definitely America, of course, it’ll turn out, a bit.

BR: Yes. Just to cut to the chase here, what you’re talking about is the deliberate creation of a state of famine, where a lot of people are going to die. Is that right? Is that what you’re saying?

C: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that would be the result.

BR: That would be the result. Okay.

C: Guess what happens when you haven’t got any food. You starve to death.

BR: Yes. Do you know...

C: It’s hard to find the geezer’s who’s got his finger on the trigger, isn’t it?

BR: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Because it just looks like someth... It looks like something that’s sort of happening. Yeah.

C: And it’s been looking and sort of like, sort of happening for the last seven years.

BR: Yes, it has. Yes, it has.

C: Don’t take my word for it. Do your research. You’ll see what I’m... It’s there, Bill.

BR: Yeah.

C: This stuff ain’t hidden.

BR: This is something you said to me over and over again. It’s all there.

C: It’s got to be. Fair play? If you want to use your phrase.

BR: Yes. It’s all out there for people who are smart enough to look and see.

C: Yeah, yeah. Because if you figure out... you’re accepted, aren’t you.

BR: [sighs] Okay. So...

C: Especially if you can do something about it.

BR: Right. So...

C: Captain of industry and so on.

BR: Yes. Do you know... Maybe you don’t know. But, do you know what the target figures for population reduction are?

C: No.

BR: Okay. Are the... do those figures exist?

C: I would presume so, yes.

BR: Okay. Because there’s...

C: To do any model, first of all, you need a business plan, don’t you, for anything.

BR: Right. And of course, a lot of people watching this will know that this so-called target, or the ideal population number is stated on the Georgia Guidestones is 500 million, isn’t it. Five hundred million.

C: Yeah.

BR: What do you know about the Georgia Guidestones.

C: Ah... right. You... educate me. They found who done it yet?

BR: No. It was a pseudonym. Somebody called somebody Christian, I think. The guy... has never been located. One person has said, ‘Yes, I did this.’

C: Ah, yeah, no. Discount that. I’m... I’m...

BR: Okay.

C: Yeah. No. I’m talking about... has it been proved?

BR: No, no, no.

C: Right.

BR: No, no.

C: And it won’t be.

BR: Right.

C: I shouldn’t think. I’d be very surprised.

BR: Okay.

C: Ah... You’re interested in the Georgia Guidestones.

BR: I just want... not particularly.

C: Where did they come from? That’s what interests you.

BR: Ah... It looks like a manifesto. It’s a manifesto in eight languages.

C: Out in the open?

BR: Out in the open. A lot of people have drawn attention to this. The five hundred million figure has been drawn attention to, over and over again. I’ve done that myself. It looks like a... looks like a manifesto. Like, ‘This is what we’re going to do.’

C: Then perhaps it is.

BR: Then perhaps it is. Okay. All right. So... you did... All right. No problem. You’re saying it’s a manifesto.

C: I’m not saying that.

BR: [laughs]

C: And it could be, couldn’t it? Looks like one, doesn’t it?

BR: [laughs] Okay. This is where I’d love to have a camera right here to see you.

C: [laughs]

BR: Okay. No problem. So, from that point of view, as... and I know that you’re not in the game of giving advice, and I understand why that is, because it really is about letting... letting things roll. But, if I said to you, which I haven’t by the way, but if I said to you, ‘You know what? I’m going to head for the hills in Ecuador and get myself a little community and a little organic farm, and we’re going to have our own water supply and our own fruit trees, and chickens and ducks and rabbits and our own power generator, and we’re going to sit there for twenty years. And we’re all a happy family and everything’s just going to be fine, and we really want to do that.

C: Mm-hm.

BR: Would you... and you’d say, ‘Well, why don’t you do that then? Sounds like a good idea.’ That’s the kind of thing you’re saying, right?

C: Yeah. Yeah.

BR: Yup. Yeah.

C: And if you’re noncombatant, you’d be probably be left alone. Because how many people are you talking about? I mean, seriously, it’s very hard to do that.

BR: Yes.

C: If we’ve had any real longevity. If you have really, keep looking for self-subsistence, it would be very hard to do. We’re not that animal anymore, are we?

BR: Oh yeah. We were much better off in the Victorian days.

C: Mmh.

BR: Yeah, we’re in real trouble now.

C: Knowledge is... gone.

BR: Yeah.

C: And that’s no... by no coincidence. That’s when...

BR: Yeah.

C: You see what I’m saying? It’s there. You don’t need to grow that anymore. We put it on the shelf. Go and buy cornflakes. You don’t need corn.

BR: Right. Yes, yes. People have... Yes I know. It’s a very...

C: So you lose the ability, don’t you?

BR: It’s a very clever game that’s being, that’s been played. People are become, they’ve become so dependent on a system. If the bubble bursts, they... all they can do is stand there...

C: They’re toast!

BR: All they can do is stand there in their underwear.

C: They’re hamburgers with legs.

BR: Yeah. All right. Hamburgers with legs? [laughs] I never heard that one before. Okay. Yeah. I know what you’re saying.

C: Yeah, you do. Everyone does. You need to... look around you.

BR: Okay. Now, so, can we then go onto, why would they do this. Why would they do this? Let’s put this in context for a moment here, and this is very important. Because earlier on, we were talking about the gentlemen who are calling the shots, who are making the decisions. We were referring to them together as respectable people who are operating with integrity, who believe that they’re doing the right thing. They don’t have an identical viewpoint about things, but they’re very much together.

C: Mm-hm.

BR: And, then somebody else watching this would say, ‘Wait a minute. We’re talking about mass murder, but how do you fit this together?

C: We were not really talking about mass murder, are we? No one’s holding a gun, are they?

BR: All right.

C: And who did it?

BR: You’re talking about control... right. You’re talking about controlling the conditions...

C: Sequenced events.

BR: Yeah.

C: Taking advantage of what happened.

BR: Yes. But you’re talking about controlling situations so that a kind of Darwinian natural selection occurs...

C: That’s right, yeah.

BR: And the smartest and the fittest and the best problem solvers and the people who can see what’s coming and the people who are, maybe, a lot of the people watching this video...

C: Mmh. Absolutely.

BR: ...because they’re smart enough to watch the video...

C: They’re already waking up, aren’t they? They’re already looking at what you’re saying, or the alternative media are saying.

BR: Yes. So there’s a small group of people here, relatively small, compared with...

C: Very small, really.

BR: Very small.

C: Very small.

BR: Who, if they take heed of all of this, are likely to make it through. This is...

C: Ah, well, okay. I think that might be stretching a little bit.

BR: More likely to make it? What would you say? C: Ah. Well, as I said, we’ve been debilitated quite a lot. So, it depends. If that individual is someone that’s got the ability to self survive. Can farm, can do this, can do that. Well then, yeah. They got a jump on it now. They know they gotta do it. If they got the ability, they can.

BR: Yes.

C: But if you don’t, then you’re probably just as lost as everybody else, aren’t you? You just know you are lost.

BR: Okay. Well, I mean, I’m in that category, because I don’t know which end of a carrot is up.

C: There you go.

BR: But, I’m smart enough to...

C: To find someone that does.

BR: To find somebody who does and to work well with them, in some way.

C: Okay. So, then, in that context, yes. They probably would have a better chance, if you can look at it like that.

BR: But...

C: That requires cooperation.

BR: And this is one of the traits which would be a good survival characteristic.

C: Yes. And you often find that people that are involved in the alternative media, do tend to cooperate with each other a lot better.

BR: Yes.

C: Because the angst isn’t there.

BR: Right.

C: The anger, the... imprinted anger on everybody. And that cop show.

BR: Right. Yes.

C: This film.

BR: Yes, yes.

C: And... his car bigger than your car.

BR: Yes. All the stuff that we are being conditioned to...

C: And, ‘Look at my gold chain.’ ‘Where is your paper?’ ‘Who are you?’

BR: All the Hollywood stuff.

C: ‘Don’t do that to me.’

BR: Yeah.

C: ‘I’m bigger than you.’ So that just creates the whole ethos. And that’s nothing new to anyone. Everyone knows it’s more violent now than it was.

BR: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

C: Which [street [did]] they come from? We know this, though. This is no news. It’s not new ground. We know the media have been...

BR: Everybody knows, yes. Most of the people watching this won’t watch a lot of television. A lot of them don’t watch any.

C: No. And that is another trait you find, because they... it makes them uncomfortable. You do find that certain individuals are predisposed to find that situation uncomfortable. Because the television has replaced the fire. We all used to sit around the fire and look at the different shapes and those shapes arises... Every vampire story, horror story you got comes from a fire because that’s where storytelling started. We sat around the fire and that was it. And now the television is a fire. It flickers, it’s light. Because the problem is, it’s not, is it?

BR: No. Sure.

C: It’s a medium...

BR: Every... yeah.

C: ...that is a direct link to your brain. You’ve seen people sitting there. Sometimes they sit there with their mouths open. Literally dribbling because they are so engrossed at looking at it. And they are lost, those people.

BR: Okay.

C: I will give you for instance. Run in their room and smash their telly [‘telly’ is British slang for ‘television’] screen and watch what happens. They will jump up and attack you without even thinking about it.

BR: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Yup.

C: Or there will be a violent response instantly, nine times out of ten. Seriously, I really do believe that.

BR: Yeah.

C: It’s the drug of choice. The drug of the masses, and it works. And it will continue to work, and if you – and I’ll – well, I’ll tell you what. Let’s say, let’s just give your viewers a task. Turn it off for fourteen days. Nothing. Not even what you want to watch. Not even watch you. Nothing.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: And see how they feel, about everything. Everything. Their wife.

BR: The world would change is what you are trying to say.

C: Absolutely.

BR: Yup. I do believe that.

C: Oh, it’s not, it’s not...

BR: And they want to do that. Oh yeah.

C: It’s not hard to believe, is it really?

BR: No. Not at all. Okay. I want to get back to the point, if I may. The reason why they are doing this – this is a question and this is what I’ve been able to figure out from the conversations that we have had – is that it’s a filter in place or it’s a bar to jump over or it’s a situation to survive where some people will make it and most won’t, being set up that way. Why would anyone do that? The only answer I can think of is because they’re actually trying to not only cull the herd. If you think of a forest keeper with a deer, in the forest, trying to make the forest a better place and make the deer a healthier, stronger herd. Part of that guy’s job is to get a shotgun out and to pick some of the deer out.

C: Yeah a shotgun, not a nuclear weapon.

BR: Exactly.

C: That is indiscriminate. You said that earlier on. So that’s why that won’t... The very argument you are making there is why that won’t happen.

BR: That’s why I said what I said there, yeah, because it is indiscriminate. Whereas, what I hear you saying here is that this setup with an engineered situation of famine and food shortage, is that there will be certain people who will make it through, besides the people in the underground bases. On the surface, so to speak, you would have people who are equipped to solve problems, to grow food, to see things coming, to form communities, to work with each other, to troubleshoot and handle, so they’d be physically tough.

C: Yeah. They want to turn the television off.

BR: Well, right. And then at the end of whatever happens, then you’ve got what, in one or two presentations I did, you call them human race 2.0. You’ve actually got a...

C: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, [it could never do].

BR: You’ve sort of got a sort... It’s not a genetic upgrade.

C: You’re asking, ‘Why would they do that?’

BR: Why would they do that? Are you able to say something about the human race being an experiment about optimization of the genome and that the 33 believe themselves to be the guardians of the experiment at this level in some way?

C: Yes. What we are actually doing is trimming the fat off.

BR: Right.

C: The surplus. This shouldn’t been there in the first place, but was created by the machine itself.

BR: Yes.

C: There is a problem.

BR: Okay. In a previous conversation we had, I described it to you like downsizing a company. When actually, because of automation that you got in the factory, you can actually let go of...

C: The men.

BR: ...90 percent of people.

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or if you’ve got a company that’s in difficulty.

BR: Right.

C: Yeah? So if we say the world’s a company and it’s in difficulty.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: And it is not going to survive because financially it can’t. It got too big and slow.

BR: Okay.

C: So in comes the liquidator and he chops off all the bits that don’t really work. Shrinks it down. Puts the money from that process in the bank and therefore the shareholders are very happy because you’ve now got a working concern that’s lean, mean and ready to go again.

BR: That sounds to me...

C: And we are talking about financial people here, right?

BR: I understand that. I understand that the thinking of it, in terms of...

C: So if you want a format and a reason, look for any downsize or liquidation.

BR: Yes. So it’s like for... So...

C: Which again is sequence driven.

BR: Yes, I understand that. What I heard you say then, it’s like corporation planet Earth needs to be licked into shape in the way that you described.

C: And is that a bad thing? If it’s not going to make it, if they believe that it’s not going to make it, are they doing an evil thing? If you killed 300 men to save 30,000, then you are a murderer.

BR: I hear your question. I hear your question. And if we were talking with those people here on camera, and if they were able to talk about this themselves, and I know that they feel that they are not...

C: Who’d need money?

BR: What... Yeah, sure. But what you are saying, is that that is the way that they see it.

C: Yes. That is the way they see it.

BR: They see it is that they’re... They believe they are doing a responsible job.

C: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

BR: Is the reason why they don’t talk about this openly... Perhaps this is a dumb question, actually, but let me ask it anyway. Is the reason that this is not being talked about openly, that they believe that, as in that movie with Jack Nicholson, ‘A Few Good Men,’ people cannot handle the truth?

C: Oh, absolutely. I mean... I’ve told you, you’re going have to exercise caution with what I will tell you.

BR: Yes.

C: And there’s a good reason for that, because it’s going to upset a lot of people.

BR: Yes.

C: And with good reason.

BR: Yes.

C: But the funny thing is, when you get to the end and any person that jumps out in front of you and says, ‘Oh.’ If you then take that person down and sit them down somewhere and if you could inject them with something that would make them calm down and coherently listen to you long enough for you to explain, they are probably going to end up on the same bus as them... because it does make sense. If it’s going to break, it’s got to be fixed.

BR: Yeah. I understand what you are saying. What you’re saying, then, or rather, what you’re saying they’re saying is that, to use your words, planet Earth is broken and this is the way to fix it. This is their best solution.

C: Mmh. [nods]

BR: And then what I also hear you saying and I also need to say that I’m trying to steer a balanced role here as an interviewer, because I want to help people understand what you are saying and what the people are feeling, believing and doing, who you have been in that room with for ten years, which is what you’ve described. You are saying that they are being as responsible as they know to fix planet Earth because it’s broken, basically. That’s...

C: Yes.

BR: Yeah. Do you... If I can ask you a direct question, do you believe this yourself?

C: Yes.

BR: You do.

C: Yes.

BR: Yeah. Okay. So...

C: That’s a personal opinion.

BR: Yes. That’s what I was asking for. Thank you for that. And I do believe that you do believe that, because I knew you were...

C: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you’ve had conversation with me, for a long time.

BR: Oh, oh, oh yeah.

C: And I’ll argue with you about it.

BR: Yes. Well...

C: Because I know that you don’t believe that. Well, that’s a bit complicated one. There’s not get into that one.

BR: Well, no... Let me just make a statement about this just for myself.

C: Okay.

BR: Because it would be quite easy at this point for people to think that I am... that because I’m reporting what you are saying...

C: That you are...

BR: ...I’m in agreement with it.

C: Yeah. Yeah.

BR: And I am trying to do a very responsible job as an interviewer here. I find if I step back from this whole thing and look at it from somewhere else in the galaxy, it’s an extraordinary situation. It’s just that when people start thinking, ‘Well wait a minute. This is going to happen to me and my loved ones,’ then it starts to become more difficult.

C: Yeah.

BR: Of course.

C: Yeah. Well you’re dad. You’re in the river and it’s freezing cold and one kid can’t swim very well and you can’t get to him. And that kid’s right there and you know you’ve got ten seconds to get out or none of you would make it.

BR: Yeah.

C: That’s a tough decision, but dad will make that decision.

BR: Yes. Yes. Yes. And then have to live with it. Yes. I understand that. That is a good analogy. My own position, which I can state clearly, but it doesn’t have the benefit of billions of dollars worth of research, data, computer modeling, and everything else. It’s a feeling. My feeling is that it is possible, it is possible that the human race can solve this problem in a different way with the right kind of leadership and the right kind of information and the right kind of responsible sharing of information.

C: Okay.

BR: I can’t drill down below that...

C: I’ll tell you what.

BR: But...

C: If you come up with that and it is, then I will be with you.

BR: Yes.

C: You gotta understand, I’m not making a choice here.

BR: I...

C: I’m making a logical choice.

BR: I understand what you are saying. I do understand what you’re saying.

C: But I don’t agree with everything, nor did dad, as he watched the other kid.

BR: Yes. I understand what you are saying, but my feeling, as I just described it very briefly, is my feeling is that there is a way out of this.

C: Okay. Right. You explain a way out of this and I will come with you.

BR: Yeah. Mm-hm. Okay. Maybe that is our second interview.

C: Maybe... Maybe is.

BR: Because I don’t have a prepared answer for that.

C: No.

BR: It’s just a feeling, and I am just sharing that with you as a mate. This is what I feel.

C: Well that is... that would be a hell of an answer, wouldn’t it?

BR: Yeah.

C: And you may even get your point, you might even get your chance to put that point.

BR: Yes. And I am stating this for a reason. I believe that there is an alternative. I don’t believe that there is no other way. I just do not believe there’s no other way.

C: Okay.

BR: I just don’t believe it.

C: But then again, you’re not in possession of all the facts are you, yet.

BR: And that’s what I said. I don’t have all the information.

C: Okay, yeah.

BR: I don’t have the access to computer modeling.

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BR: I don’t have access to data connection.

C: Okay.

BR: And I haven’t been thinking about this for the last hundred years.

C: Okay. Mm-hm.

BR: Or however long they’ve been thinking about it.

C: Okay, so, by that same token, do you not think that they really have thought about it and a lot of work has been done and maybe that the devil’s advocate was played at some point?

BR: I hear what you are saying. But if this is also the case, and this loops back to our earlier conversation...

C: Mm-hm.

BR: ...that we had in this interview, that if I am responsibly trying to look at this problem saying, ‘Wait a minute, guys, isn’t there another way to solve this?’

C: Mm-hm.

BR: Then that that would actually be a respected...

C: Yeah.

BR: That would be respected. That wouldn’t be regarded... I mean, you’ve been in problem-solving meetings with people. If somebody in the back says, ‘Wait a minute, I’ve got an idea,’ he’s not necessarily going to be a nuisance. He’s gonna be...

C: No. He’s got 20 seconds, hasn’t he?

BR: Right. [laughs]

C: Before he is told to shut up.

BR: Okay, yeah. Because it, yeah.

C: He’d better have a coherent argument. You only get one stab.

BR: Okay. I hear what you’re saying.

C: And no one individual could do it. To think there’s going to be one messiah is completely ludicrous. You’d be hard pushed to... I mean, look at all the resources that we’ve got. And... [laughs] You’re saying that you think there might be another way. Fine. I’m not going to argue with you about that.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: That is your opinion, okay? And I respect your opinion. But you’re standing there as one individual saying that. So I’ll take it like that.

BR: Yeah. Okay.

C: Because to put together a coherent argument against that size of argument with that much data behind it... you’d better make sure you come prepared.

BR: Okay. And I take that point very seriously, because a few lines of passionate belief in itself isn’t going to save the world. And you’re a practical man. You’re talking about getting Spaceship [Earth]... What you want is, or what you would like to see happen, if you’re able to live to see it, is to see Spaceship Earth and the human race in good shape. Am I right about that?

C: I really don’t care.

BR: You really don’t... [laughs] Okay. You really – you do care a little bit, don’t you?

C: No, no, no.

BR: You don’t?

C: No.

BR: All right. Okay. Okay. You just want to see that guy at the back of the room be heard for 20 seconds.

C: Yeah!

BR: Well, thank you for that. Okay? [laughs]

C: That’s exactly right.

BR: Okay. I’ve got it. All right. I got that. Now, in this very, very interesting conversation we’re having here, are you able to say anything about the context and the backdrop to the whole history of this planet and the human race? Or is that off-record? I’m not talking about the detail. I’m talking about the generality of it.

C: I’ve seen documented evidence and I’ve been shown things. I’ve been told things about the pyramids that just makes sense. They just makes sense. [laughs]

BR: Yup.

C: And I know that people, Arthur C. Clarke knew things.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: But they, again, had weaknesses...

BR: Yes.

C: ...that put them, in his case, Sri Lanka.

BR: Yes.

C: Out of reach.

BR: Mm-hm.

C: Go and read his books. I’m sure you have.

BR: Yes.

C: The guy is more or less responsible for the satellites that we use today and the idea behind them. This is a genius, but he wasn’t really. He just knew some stuff. He was present at things. And until they go back to the moon and put ‘that’ in a capsule and bring it back... That to me would be quite something, if they bring that piece back. Then okay, I might jump on the bandwagon with everybody else on that one. But, yeah, I’ve seen some stuff and I’ve had stuff explained to me which does make a hell of lot of sense. Yes.

BR: Okay. Now here...

C: You see what I’m saying, don’t you?

BR: Yes I do. Now, what the big picture is here, which we haven’t actually talked about between us, is extraterrestrial involvement.

C: You be very careful about that. To just put the question bluntly, most people... all the alternative media and a lot of people now... I mean, just go back to the ‘50s, right? If you asked the ordinary man in the street in Walthamstowe, in England, whether he believes in aliens, he would laugh his head off and go and get some pie ‘n’ mash [pie with mashed peas]. If you asked him today, he may very well say, ‘Yeah. There has got to be something.’ Because he is educated and he knows that there’s a vast universe.

BR: And he is being conditioned by Hollywood movies and television series.

C: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BR: Yeah, okay. Which is all a part of what the... I mean, we are being prepared to come to terms with this.

C: Yeah you are. Yeah you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not for the reasons you think.

BR: For what reason?

C: They can have nothing to do with us. There they are... If you... All right, okay.

BR: The E.T.s are going to have...

C: Let’s just call a spade a spade. Yeah, they exist. There is no conjecture. They do. Yeah, there is stuff. But you know what? That’s no big surprise to 50 percent of people, shall we say.

BR: Right.

C: But that number’s gone up, hasn’t it. More and more people realize. More import... NASA have got more and more slapdash about, and cannot because the very thing they’ve created, the media monster behind trying to get money for the space race...

BR: Yes.

C: ...is still there from the ‘60s. And people, there is a lot of people who are very interested in it. And so because of that, cameras are on the [space] shuttle. And because of the Internet and various people who are clever with the Internet, Mr. McKinnon and people like that, who I know very well...

BR: Did you know Gary McKinnon?

C: I used to... I’ll tell you a story about him later on.

BR: Off-record?

C: Yeah.

BR: That’s a shame. Okay. All right. We’re talking about cameras on the shuttle and people who are clever with computers.

C: Yeah. What I’m trying to say is, you can’t, it’s so many now.

BR: Yes.

C: You can’t keep your lid on everything.

BR: You’re saying it’s impossible to hide the reality.

C: Yeah, yeah. And there’s a certain piece of video that is quite prevalent on the Internet, of a circular thing rolling behind a tether.

BR: Yes. I know that one.

C: That’s factual. A couple miles across, but it’s not a ship and things aren’t what you think they are out there. You should regard space more as an ocean.

BR: Ah... okay.

C: Yeah? We got no rights to say intelligent or unintelligent, because then what you’re doing, you’re comparing things to your intellect, aren’t you.

BR: Okay.

C: And how can you compare that to a human?

BR: Are you stating this as a fact?

C: Absolutely.

BR: A fact. And what you are talking about here, you are talking about large living beings like big kind of...

C: And small.

BR: And small living beings.

C: And... Look at it this way. If you’ve sharks swimming through the ocean, he’s got fish swimming all around him most of the time, picking out morsels, servicing him, and he doesn’t eat them. They go right in his mouth.

BR: Yes, yes, yes.

C: And come out. That’s a natural thing, yeah?

BR: Yup.

BR: Is it so far fetched for you to understand, that [that] could be the situation out there?

BR: Okay. But at the same time, there are some what we could regard as metallic craft, things that you could call spacecraft...

C: Right.

BR: ...as well, right?

C: Yeah. But... Tell you what, I’ve got an axe to grind here, so let me grind my axe.

BR: You do that.

C: Okay, so here you are, you’re an alien, yeah? You are on the other side of the universe, for instance, you are in Orion. You’re that far away. You’re in your ship and fly all the way here and you cross intergalactic space, in a fantastic piece of machinery and you get here and then you crash in Nevada.

BR: Right.

C: Rubbish!

C: Rubbish! [The] machine was shot down.

BR: Okay.

C: That’s what happened to you. Because you didn’t think that there was any kind of particle weapon or kinetic weapon that could do that.

BR: Yes.

C: Or you wasn’t prepared because this is the first time you came.

BR: That was... it has got something to do with radar, wasn’t it? They discovered that radar would actually do this.

C: Yeah.

BR: Am I right?

C: Well, it was quite an aggressive... it wasn’t an accident.

BR: Okay. I’ve got you. So you’re saying that the so-called crashes weren’t crashes. They’re actually offensive actions which were discovered...

C: And I ask you to understand that, because you don’t cross intergalactic space and then crash in Nevada, do you?

BR: I understand that.

C: You see. That’s my axe there. So sorry, go on.

BR: I’ve got you. That’s fine. So you’re saying that initially, there was a way of bringing the craft down that was discovered by accident and then it was...

C: More or less.

BR: More or less. And then it was fairly quickly...

C: It was a deliberate attempt...

BR: ...utilized. Yeah.

C: Amazing that it worked.

BR: Yes. Right.

C: And then when it did, ‘Oh!’

BR: So it’s a lucky hit.

C: Yeah.

BR: And then they started to get focused about it.

C: Yeah. Well, they realized it could be done and went down the avenue of trying to figure out how they had done it and what actually did cause it. And they needed to look at the thing they brought down to do that.

BR: Yes. And then...

C: And then it educated them, so they became much better at it.

BR: Yes. Because then you have got the... Americans mainly, I guess. Was it only Americans? Or did this happen in every country?

C: No, no, no, no. Just drop the borders. There are no nationalities.

BR: Okay.

C: It’s not...

BR: So then you got people who are pretty smart...

C: Mm-hm.

BR: ...who got their hands on this E.T. technology, and that was never part of the setup. That was never part of the plan, was it?

C: No.

BR: That was never part of the plan.

C: No.

BR: Okay. And what kind of problems has that caused?

C: Well, you know what we’re like. It’s not caused... They want to go, ‘We’re going to be the visitors.’

BR: Mm-hm. So that’s what the selection’s about? Okay. It’s about creating a sort of space crew or a... [sighs] a new...

C: And [we mean this as a second end. So...]

BR: I understand that. A new breed of humanity who will be well equipped to go off into the cosmos, like the Crusaders.

C: Yeah.

BR: Uh-huh.

C: Yeah. Like the Crusaders.

BR: Like the Crusaders. And it’s like, you give... It’s like, seriously, you got the spirit of the Crusaders and you give them extraterrestrial technology to move with.

C: There you go.

BR: And then...

C: Are any of us in any doubt that we’re going to start planet-hopping within the next century?

BR: Mm-hm.

C: Are you actually in any doubt, with the technologies available now? Because we’re doing it with robots.

BR: Personally, I’m in no doubt at all that we’ve got a Mars base.

C: Oh, right, okay.

BR: Is this something you ever heard about?

C: Yes.

BR: Okay. Can you say anything about that?

C: No.

BR: All right. Okay. Do you want that off-record?

C: No.

BR: Okay. All right. That’s fine. But, for sure, most people who I’ve spoken to about this subject who really feel that they do know something about it, will say that we’ve got all kinds of technology that you wouldn’t, let’s say that it makes the space shuttle look like a Model T Ford, or perhaps a horse and buggy. So it implies that there are a lot of those crafts and we are very, very far advanced indeed.

C: Well, I will tell you something about those craft that has never come out.

BR: Tell me.

C: Right. You know you’ve got sight, you to go to Mexico and something’s a mile across. And then you come to Nevada and it is 600 feet across.

BR: Okay.

C: It’s triangular.

BR: Right. Yeah.

C: All right. So how about it being ten triangles that can lock in together and fly in the same formation?

BR: Oh, okay.

C: And then they can split.

BR: Okay. So they fit together like bricks.

C: Yeah.

BR: Or like pieces.

C: And they can do that in motion.

BR: Okay. Is this some, and these are our craft [that] you’re talking about?

C: Yeah. Modular.

BR: Yeah. And you’re telling...

C: So you can see how easy that would be to confuse every individual, because one day it’s a star and the next day it’s a triangle.

BR: Okay.

C: And then it can split up and go in all different directions.

BR: Okay.

C: You try and explain this. It’s got to be extraterrestrial, hasn’t it, if it can split up into ten different pieces when it was one craft, and then disappear off quite quickly, in all different directions.

BR: Okay. And you have been told this?

C: I’ve not just been told it. I’ve seen it.

BR: You’ve seen it. Okay. okay.

C: Technology’s hundreds of years further forward.

BR: Yes. Yes.

C: It is. And not just technology. You got to understand, if you go back to, let’s say, one loves it. Let’s go back to the pyramids age one. If you knew, if you were in power at that point, and you knew about electricity, and the man in the street at that point who was lugging stones around for you, can you imagine how much more powerful you are than him?

BR: Mm-hm.

C: Look at what you’ve learned in the last couple of months and how it changed your view on things.

BR: Right.

C: Right?

BR: Point taken. Yup.

C: So times that by a million, and then put 5,000 years in the spin.

BR: Yes.

C: So it’s not a case of how many far out... how much many years technology’s ahead of you. It is a case of how many years... how can I put that into words?

BR: I know what you are saying.

C: Whew! [exhales]

BR: Yeah, sure. Yes, yes, I do. And you’re saying that some of these crumbs have fallen off the table into the public sector, like onto Apple.

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.

BR: But a lot of it is kept behind the curtain for use of the insiders for their own programs.

C: Yeah.

BR: Okay.

C: To keep the jump on everyone else, you can’t tell them what you’re doing.

BR: Yes.

C: But when you’ve got to a point where you don’t need to be doing that anymore, and it could make you an awful lot of money for what you want to do and further your endeavors, then you can let those crumbs out, can’t you?

BR: Yes, okay. Let me ask...

C: And you can send them out to Beijing and get them made.

BR: Yeah. Let me ask you a question about this that I’ve been meaning to ask you for a while and I haven’t asked this question to you yet. And that is that, is it possible that there are sectors, say, of American military private enterprise, what Eisenhower called the ‘military-industrial complex,’ that are working on things and know things and have control of things that the 33 aren’t party to? Is it possible that there are things that they are not party to? And that some people have...

C: Yes, yes, but only because they don’t want to be party to.

BR: Okay.

C: If it became interesting, no, there would be nothing out of their grasp.

BR: Nothing out of their grasp.

C: No, because what they’ll do is, they’ll financially help it along, stop it, get control of it.

BR: Okay.

C: You can when you’ve got all the power.

BR: Okay. Okay.

C: More than knowledge, shall we say.

BR: Which is why basically what you’re saying is that money opens all the doors, but you’re not really talking about money?

C: No, not at all. Money is not a concept they even want to talk about. It’s nonsense.

BR: It’s not like money in the bank, apparently. It’s that control that comes with the ability to shape the economics of nations through a decision that somebody makes. Is that the kind of thing we’re talking about?

C: Yeah.

BR: I remember you described it in an earlier stage. You described that these 33, each of these individuals... they should actually be seen as like nation-states in themselves.

C: Yes.

BR: In terms of policy making, economic influence...

C: Yeah. There is no borders or nationality. That is all pointless, all of that.

BR: Yeah. So that’s just part of the wrapping of the package.

C: It’s part of the factory. Yeah, it’s part of the plan. It’s part of the disinf, it’s part of the education.

BR: Yes. Yes.

C: It makes you fight amongst yourself. Divide and conquer.

BR: Can you say anything about the... what geopolitical changes we might expect? Like for instance, there are a lot of people watching this...

C: New World Order.

BR: And all that stuff.

C: Yeah.

BR: The North American Union, based on the economic...

C: Yup.

BR: ...the European Union model. Okay.

C: And if it’s prudent for them to do it, and it helps in a model, yes, they will do it.

BR: Okay.

C: All those things are on the table. But as soon as you draw too much attention to any of them, depending on their importance and what your longevity is or the audience’s longevity is, [they’ll roll you hard getting it back].

BR: Ah, okay.

C: Because if you draw attention to it, they won’t do it. And your credibility will go out the window.

BR: Yes. Global currency. Same thing?

C: Oh, yeah. No. That’s inevitable, though, Bill. Come on.

BR: Mm-hm. Okay.

C: If you know anything about economics, you know there’s going to be One World Government.

BR: Right.

C: It’s the only way it’s going to go. It’s got to.

BR: Yeah. Okay. Okay. There’s likely to be the removal of borders between like...

C: Financial borders.

BR: Financial borders.

C: [Geographical] borders won’t be removed because that’s how you keep people averse to each other.

BR: Okay.

C: I’ve got it great over here. Your life’s shit.

BR: Okay. Right.

C: Yeah, then you’re arguing, right?

BR: Yes. So it’s creating the dialectic, but the finances actually determine the real structure.

C: Keep everyone’s nose on the grindstone. They can’t look up long enough to wonder they’re doing. Keep everyone arguing amongst themselves about racial equality and sexual equality...

BR: Yes.

C: ...homophobic. Keep everyone arguing about everything, because then they’re all arguing amongst themselves... [while] we want to get on with it.

BR: Yes. Oh okay. Let me ask you one more question if I may?

C: Mm-hm.

BR: Okay. Is it going to be convenient to set up a false flag operation to depict the E.T.s as being enemies?

C: It’s on the table. They’re going to do it.

BR: That’s on the table and they’re going to do it.

C: Yeah. They will do that. That’s the craft are for, that’s the modular things are for, and it has already started.

BR: Okay. Do you know... is this date forecast at all?

C: No, there’s no dates. No dates. Time to get off of that.

BR: Just...

C: Never is.

BR: Okay.

C: When people start amassing an opinion, and it reaches a crescendo, that’s when it will start.

BR: Okay. Okay. So...

C: So, you’re asking me how long will it take for the world’s population to start getting worried about that?

BR: Okay. It sounds then as if there would be a strategy to start informing people about the E.T. reality pretty quickly. Now, I presume this is kind of under way.

C: A Fourth of July? What was the... ‘V.’

BR: Yeah. All of that. Yeah. ‘Independence Day.’

C: What’s this new one, ‘The Event.’ Sorry, ‘Independence Day,’ I meant. And so on and so on. ‘Terminator.’ Whatever you like.

BR: Yes, but are we ever going to get Obama holding a press conference saying, okay, ‘Guys, need to square with you.’

C: Not him, but someone will.

BR: Somebody will.

C: Yeah.

BR: Do you know anything about that at all?

C: No, because it’s not there yet, is it?

BR: It’s not there yet.

C: We... There’s a drip happening, and the bucket... you’re asking me how long that bucket’s going to take to fill, but the drip might slow up or speed up. So that makes my guess wrong.

BR: I wondered if any decision had been made about that, but you’re saying it’s just a general direction. They’re going in a general direction.

C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And meanwhile, technology’s coming on. It’s getting better.

BR: Yes. Yes.

C: It’s more convincing.

BR: Okay.

C: So there is no hurry.

BR: Okay. Interesting.

C: Meanwhile, make education suffer a little, so people are a little bit more dense than they have been.

BR: And additives in the food. Additives in the water.

C: That’s a whole another...

BR: That’s a whole another, yes.

C: That’s a whole another video. That’s something I may know a little about...

BR: Yes.

C: ...because you know my diet.

BR: Yes. Yes. So you kept yourself in good shape, because you needed to. I understand that. So, pressing the pause button here, I know there are some matters here that you need to attend to, and this has been a longer interview than I had anticipated. I want to thank you for that, very much.

C: [You’re welcome.]

BR: And it sounds as if there’s quite a lot of material that we haven’t yet had the opportunity to cover. I would like to ask you to consider the possibility of doing another one if neither of us get into serious trouble after doing this one.

C: Okay.

BR: [laughs]

C: If neither of us gets into serious trouble for doing this one, I’ll shake your hand on that. [shakes Bill’s hand]

BR: That’s for good. So, I’ve got to remember to call you ‘Charles.’

C: [laughs]

BR: ‘Charles’ makes it sound very respectable.

C: Okay.

BR: So we’ve got to try and do something for here.

C: I do like it. It sounds respectable.

BR: Okay. So thank you, really thank you.

C: You’re welcome.

BR: Those of, those of you who have been watching this right to the end here, you will appreciate that we’ve covered ground. Some things here have never been discussed anywhere, I don’t believe, in the media. It hasn’t been permitted. We’re got a kind of experiment in progress here, because both Charles and myself are going to be interested to see what happens over the next few days and weeks, after this is released. By the time you see this, it will have been edited appropriately, but probably not an awful lot. We’re going to take out some little bit of ‘off-record’ conversation had, off-record clarification, as is normal journalistic practice, and then I have promised that I will run this past him, past you, for your approval and if you’re seeing this now, it means that you’ve given it the nod. And then after that, as they say, we’re letting it roll.


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