Go Back   Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE) > Project Avalon Forum > Project Avalon > Preparations / Advice

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-19-2008, 01:58 AM   #26
ramallamamama
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Maui, Hawaii USA
Posts: 74
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Great thread.

I have an FM transceiver that I keep in a US military ammunition can that I plan to use in a shtf situation. I have read that these make suitable Faraday cages. Would you concur, Steven?

Thanks in advance.
ramallamamama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 04:33 AM   #27
Tez
Retired Avalon Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where there is light
Posts: 138
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven View Post
..................Hello Tez. I'm from Canada and in Direct Current application, black wire are usually linked to reference point or ground. BUT NOT IN AC. In AC, it's the green wire, the white wire being the common return of the AC, not linked to the ground. The black wire is the "alive" wire, don't ground it at any cost before measuring it with a voltmeter first. Of course, there are different color coding then North American, but be really sure before, an electrician advice is always the best to do.

Namaste, Steven

Hi Steven, Colours of wires must be totally different between our two countries, the following colour codes are for Australian Use ONLY

Yes i know the wiring colours for both AC and DC here in Australia.

DC - Positive is Red, Negative is Black.

AC - Earth is green or can also be Green and Yellow, Neutral is Black or also can be Blue, Active is Red or can also be Brown.


I just had this thought that a few years ago i had read somewhere that the AC Neutral (Black) was now being tied to earth.

.
ALL HOUSEHOLD WIRING AND REPAIRS MUST BE ONLY CARRIED OUT BY A LICENCED ELECTRICIAN.
.
.
Tez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 08:39 AM   #28
Swanny
I dont need a label !
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Shire of Wilt
Posts: 2,889
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tez View Post
Hi Steven, Colours of wires must be totally different between our two countries, the following colour codes are for Australian Use ONLY

Yes i know the wiring colours for both AC and DC here in Australia.

DC - Positive is Red, Negative is Black.

AC - Earth is green or can also be Green and Yellow, Neutral is Black or also can be Blue, Active is Red or can also be Brown.


I just had this thought that a few years ago i had read somewhere that the AC Neutral (Black) was now being tied to earth.

.
ALL HOUSEHOLD WIRING AND REPAIRS MUST BE ONLY CARRIED OUT BY A LICENCED ELECTRICIAN.
.
.
The same colour codes apply to UK wiring
We call "Active" Live here and Earth is Green and Yellow unless it's old wiring and then it is solid Green.
Swanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 09:57 AM   #29
Swamisalami
Banned
 
Swamisalami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 158
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven View Post
You need a multimeter, which has a voltmeter, ampmeter and ohmmeter. The ohmmeter will measure the resistance of a given conductor. If your resistance is near 0 ohm, then you are sure you have a continuity.

A multimeter isn't expensive here are some for home: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03482139000P

Put the multimeter in ohmmeter position. You connect one test lead to a ground outlet (the round socket of the three on any outlet) and you connect the other lead test to your earth ground (which is the incoming water pipe in most houses). Measure near 0 ohm for a continuity. If what you measure has a high ohm value, like 10Mohms, then you are sure your ground outlet isn't really grounded.

Hello Tez. I'm from Canada and in Direct Current application, black wire are usually linked to reference point or ground. BUT NOT IN AC. In AC, it's the green wire, the white wire being the common return of the AC, not linked to the ground. The black wire is the "alive" wire, don't ground it at any cost before measuring it with a voltmeter first. Of course, there are different color coding then North American, but be really sure before, an electrician advice is always the best to do.

Namaste, Steven
Thanks:thum b_yello:
Swamisalami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 04:57 PM   #30
Steven
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Temiscouata
Posts: 873
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramallamamama View Post
Great thread.

I have an FM transceiver that I keep in a US military ammunition can that I plan to use in a shift situation. I have read that these make suitable Faraday cages. Would you concur, Steven?

Thanks in advance.
Yes, these metal boxes will make a perfect shield because it's all made of steel. But the paint on it act as an isolator, you don't want it to redirect EMP. Only make sure you file it to remove paint and dirt. Then you connect (weld with tin) the wire earth ground to it. Or buried into the ground.

Namaste, Steven

Last edited by Steven; 10-30-2008 at 02:13 AM.
Steven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 05:23 PM   #31
ramallamamama
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Maui, Hawaii USA
Posts: 74
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven View Post
Yes, these metal boxes will make a perfect shield because it's all made of steel. But the paint on it act as an isolator, you don't want it to catch EMP. Only make sure you file it to remove paint and dirt. Then you connect (weld with tin) the wire earth ground to it. It has to be grounded.

Namaste, Steven
Thanks for the info Steven.
ramallamamama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 05:39 PM   #32
oldpaganfreak
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: great northern boreal forest
Posts: 440
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

i believe it is also necessary to insulate the radio from the box, on the inside.
oldpaganfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 05:44 PM   #33
Swanny
I dont need a label !
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Shire of Wilt
Posts: 2,889
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpaganfreak View Post
i believe it is also necessary to insulate the radio from the box, on the inside.
Yea I've been thinking that maybe it would be good to line the box with rubber or some sort of insulator, although most things are in a plastic case so I guess that should do it.
Swanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 05:57 PM   #34
mntruthseeker
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,482
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

FANTASTIC Thanks so much for sharing
mntruthseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 08:58 PM   #35
scanner
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: sea level England ,I must move
Posts: 195
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Hi thanks for this post it will help alot of ppl
scanner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 09:03 PM   #36
Steven
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Temiscouata
Posts: 873
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tez View Post
...ALL HOUSEHOLD WIRING AND REPAIRS MUST BE ONLY CARRIED OUT BY A LICENCED ELECTRICIAN...
Thank you very much about it Tez. A very good reminder indeed. I'll add it to edited posts of mine.

This is true for all type of activities (repairs, modification, measurement, etc...) on the actual electric network of any house.

But... you don't need an electrician to shield your electronics if you use new wire and shield (metal box, faraday cage, foils, etc...) and ground it with new wires network. As long as you don't touch the electrical network and do not touch electrical power.

If I may add this: Many people asked me through private message if military are/will use it against cities, citizen, etc... It wasn't my original idea for this thread, but here is the information I got about it. There are many different kind of EMP military can use, from micro-wave to infra-red, without mentioning all of them. And there is not much protection against these weapons because of the magnitude and precision (target). The best and more affordable protection against these weapons are to my humble knowledge lead layers. Because of it's atomic structure, lead absorb some effect of these waves. Faraday cages are also very efficient, but both these solution are more expensive and time consuming to set them up, both of these solution need to be connected to the Earth ground. Skeptical made a very informative comment about it on a previous post.

Here is a link to Faraday Cages tutorial: http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/em...aday_cages.htm

Namaste, Steven

Last edited by Steven; 10-30-2008 at 02:15 AM.
Steven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 10:21 PM   #37
Steven
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Temiscouata
Posts: 873
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpaganfreak View Post
i believe it is also necessary to insulate the radio from the box, on the inside.
Yes, you don't want your components to be in contact with the shield (they can be in physical contact, but electrically isolated), only the metal framing, not the components.

Steven

Last edited by Steven; 10-30-2008 at 02:15 AM.
Steven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 10:28 AM   #38
Swanny
I dont need a label !
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Shire of Wilt
Posts: 2,889
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

After reading in another thread about microwave ovens.
I think that if you were to earth one then it should be ok to shield your stuff.
You could use a old one which is not connected to power.
If your in the UK or Oz then it would be earthed if plugged into the mains. In the UK you could just remove the fuse so there is no chance of it turning on and cooking your stuff, and it would still be connected to earth.
Ok it's not going to be very big, but big enough to save your ipod, a radio etc

Anyone know a reason why this would not work well as a Faraday Cage??

Last edited by Swanny; 10-22-2008 at 10:30 AM.
Swanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 12:33 PM   #39
Steven
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Temiscouata
Posts: 873
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanny View Post
After reading in another thread about microwave ovens.
I think that if you were to earth one then it should be ok to shield your stuff.
You could use a old one which is not connected to power.
If your in the UK or Oz then it would be earthed if plugged into the mains. In the UK you could just remove the fuse so there is no chance of it turning on and cooking your stuff, and it would still be connected to earth.
Ok it's not going to be very big, but big enough to save your ipod, a radio etc

Anyone know a reason why this would not work well as a Faraday Cage??
I like this idea because it's simple, not costing too much. It won't be as efficient as a Faraday cage, because for this, you will need to cover all the micro-wave with double layered aluminum foils and connect them to the metal casing of the micro-wave. A simple modification that will assure best result.

Thank you for this idea Swanny, Steven
Steven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 09:33 PM   #40
Swanny
I dont need a label !
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Shire of Wilt
Posts: 2,889
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

No probs Steven glad to be of help.
Just talking to a friend who threw away his old microwave yesterday, I could have used that.
Good idea about adding foil to it
Swanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 07:29 PM   #41
Julius
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 37
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Would it be possible to ground the entire house?

I live in a single detacted home and I remember reading somewhere about a 5 feet antenna on the top of your house.....unfortunately there wasn't a lot of info to go on.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks and have a great super day!
Julius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:36 PM   #42
Steven
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Temiscouata
Posts: 873
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius View Post
Would it be possible to ground the entire house?

I live in a single detacted home and I remember reading somewhere about a 5 feet antenna on the top of your house.....unfortunately there wasn't a lot of info to go on.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks and have a great super day!
Salut Julius. Yes, you have read it here in one of my post on this thread.

Namaste, Steven

Last edited by Steven; 10-30-2008 at 02:37 AM.
Steven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 11:10 PM   #43
Bleep!
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Exclamation Re: How to shield your electronics. v.s. Voodoo

"If you worried about your body, especially your brain since it's an electro-magnetic device, well shield it, lol. I mean you can put antennas on the roof of your house, 1 antenna wire 1/4 inche by 5 feet long, covering a sphere of 20 feet, and protect the entire household. The important is conductivity (metal) and good grounding (deep in earth)."

This will not work and does absolutely nothing for you. The idea of putting antennas on the roof top must have come from the idea of lightning rods. EMP is not like lightning. You cannot 'draw' EMP away from things in the same way as you can with lightning.

Common EMP has little or No effect on your brain.

Also, if you ground something, the ground wiring Must be very short distance from the shielded 'item' to the actual Earth grounding point or the so-called ground wire will act as an antenna instead of as a grounded circuit. Using housewiring grounds in wall sockets is not a good idea and may Not be effective.

Copper foil is a better option if you wish to create a good faraday shield. Aluminum - is ok for shielding the Magnetic component of the Electro-Magnetic pulses and will suffice overall if done properly.

Antennas and any wiring attached to a device should be disconnected for best protection.

----------------------------
On second thought, maybe it is time to go buy some 'wabbit ears' (an old-stlye of TV antenna) and put them on my new hat: http://www.rogue.co.za/html/more_headwear.html

Last edited by Bleep!; 10-30-2008 at 08:46 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 01:22 AM   #44
Steven
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Temiscouata
Posts: 873
Default Re: How to shield your electronics. v.s. Voodoo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleep! View Post
...This will not work and does absolutely nothing for you. The idea of putting antennas on the roof top must have come from the idea of lightning rods. EMP is not like lightning. You cannot 'draw' EMP away from things in the same way as you can with lightning.

Common EMP has little or No effect on your brain...
Hi Bleep! You had me open my old books there.

First, I agree that common EMP has little effect. But we are NOT referring to common EMP in this thread. Great magnitude EMP can affect the brain. Here to back my words: http://www.blurtit.com/q642109.html

Here experiments on rats: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/lo...number=1282261

Last, yes copper is a better conductor element, but it is more expensive and does oxide much faster.

Namaste, Steven

Last edited by Steven; 10-30-2008 at 02:37 AM.
Steven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 01:45 AM   #45
Bleep!
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to shield electronics.

Antennas concentrate EMP? oh well, have it your way.

Nearby Massive metallic structures may increase the fieldstrength of EMP but will not 'suck' the EMP away from you or away from other nearby things.

The following (from the link) is True:
"The only two requirements for protection with a Faraday box are:

(1) the equipment inside the box does NOT touch the metal container (plastic, wadded paper, or cardboard can all be used to insulate it from the metal) and

(2) the metal shield is continuous without any gaps between pieces or extra-large holes in it.

Grounding a Faraday box is NOT necessary and in some cases actually may be less than ideal."

A nuc explosion is not required for EMP to be produced.
A conventional device can be easily constructed to do the job.

This is all fine and dandy but does it really matter?
Ponder it all.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 01:47 AM   #46
Bleep!
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramallamamama View Post
Great thread.

I have an FM transceiver that I keep in a US military ammunition can that I plan to use in a shtf situation. I have read that these make suitable Faraday cages. Would you concur, Steven?

Thanks in advance.
This is a good idea as long as the transceiver is Insulated from the metal can. Even a simple metal lunchbox or metal cookie/chocolate box is good. Just don't forget the insulation.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 03:22 AM   #47
Anchor
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 2,280
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Most of the posts in this thread seem highly speculative in nature.

There does not seem to be much definitive information in public, and people who understand RF are few and far between. Bleep! seems to be one of the few that understand.

What worries me, is that people talk about EMP as if it were some kind of constant. EMP's can of course be of varying strengths. The need to protect against EMP caused by a local nuke, is different than the need against one caused by a CME type phenomena, or a high up "big" nuke covering a wide area.

The earlier advice that cars would be unaffected is dodgy since most modern cars are very dependent of digital technogy.

It is true that if people start slinging nukes about, we would have more to worry about.

A..

Last edited by Anchor; 10-28-2008 at 03:26 AM.
Anchor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 09:38 AM   #48
Swanny
I dont need a label !
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Shire of Wilt
Posts: 2,889
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

IMO I see no reason why they would want to EMP us, if tshf they would want us to stay in doors and watch the tv/listen to the radio so they can feed us BS and tell us to be good little people. They can easily turn off the phones and the net to stop us talking to each other.
I still like the idea of protecting your stuff just in case.

The sort of cars that would be ok after a EMP hit would be those that have points, so if your car is about 20 years old and you weren't driving it at the time it mite be ok. An old mini would be good.
Anything with a ECU would be no good.
A diesel engine is very basic and doesnt need electronics to run once it's been started,
Swanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 10:06 AM   #49
Steven
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Temiscouata
Posts: 873
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchor View Post
Most of the posts in this thread seem highly speculative in nature.

There does not seem to be much definitive information in public, and people who understand RF are few and far between. Bleep! seems to be one of the few that understand.

What worries me, is that people talk about EMP as if it were some kind of constant. EMP's can of course be of varying strengths. The need to protect against EMP caused by a local nuke, is different than the need against one caused by a CME type phenomena, or a high up "big" nuke covering a wide area.

The earlier advice that cars would be unaffected is dodgy since most modern cars are very dependent of digital technogy.

It is true that if people start slinging nukes about, we would have more to worry about.

A..
Why don't you just delete the thread if it's speculative. I work in this field and yes, antennas does concentrate EMP just like radio wave. Read the first post I made, the reason I brought the topic was about a future EMW of great strength coming from the sun according to Henry Deacon's somewhere in 2009.

Since, I work for a large Electric power company and already have lived this kind of problems, I put some simple advices, not expensive, to protect one electronic devices.

Now, if you don't agree it's ok. But I'm not being speculative, plus I provided some useful links since I can't begin to write a book about the topic on this thread.

And yes, EMW constantly comes from the sun.

Namaste, Steven

Last edited by Steven; 10-30-2008 at 01:29 AM.
Steven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 01:27 PM   #50
Julius
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 37
Default Re: How to shield your electronics.

Thanks for the responses guys.. I can see that this is no easy topic and depends on what we are defending against.

Let's say it's a "future EMW of great strength coming from the sun according to Henry Deacon's somewhere in 2009.", then I guess the antenna thingy would help.

So if I got this straight, I would put this antenna (every corner) on top of my home...do I run the wires down the side of the house to the ground? (from the antenna), or do I find a metal piece (outside water spout) and attach a wire to it and the other end to the ground?

I also have a scooter, I think that would be safe from a EMW (it's a manual start).

Thanks and sorry for my ignorance.
Julius is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Project Avalon